PDA

View Full Version : Thief 4 ideas



JC 12
24th Dec 2004, 19:40
this thread is basically about a storyline, abilities etc. for Thief 4

Just post your ideas in and maybe we coud all put our ideas together and make the best thief story EVER :D

Just a few Basic things "I Think" the new game should have...everyone has their own opinions so i dont want this thread to turn into a warzone or this thread could be banned :eek:

1. should be based sometime around the medievil
2. 'possibly' 2 characters to play as (as suggested by Merus)
3. a stealth/sound meter and an inventory choice (also suggested by Merus, that guy comes up with some GOOD ideas :)
4. keep SOME of the creatures, becuase a thief game without creatured would be kinda boring (undead, kurshok)
5. make the city a whole lot bigger. and make it so you can walk on rooftops.

anyways, those are some of my ideas, im making a story for it aswell, i just need some time and i'll post it in. and try and think of a name for the game too (nothing stupid like 'return of the thief' or 'the thief strikes back')

goodbye and happy posting :D

:D

Merus
24th Dec 2004, 23:25
Good ideas. Keep writing more because the more we write ,the more Eidos will listen and come out with Thief4. Im happy you think my Ideas are good, I just want them to come out with the best stealth game ever!

JC 12
24th Dec 2004, 23:32
yeah, if we all post our ideas, we WILL probaly make the best stealth game ever! lol.

all of us have probaly played through the thief series a number of times, so we know what we want and what would be good, as for me ive played all the splinter cells so far, thief 1 & 2, all the hitmans, and all the ghost recons, just put some ideas together and hey presto!

so come on guys, post post post, and if they take our ideas, we will get credit for one of the best stealth games ever, YAY!

bogey19018
25th Dec 2004, 02:29
the hell with those dead guys... stick to the real things like real people coming after you, not dead guys or big bugs.. thats not real....

JC 12
25th Dec 2004, 19:13
i disagree. ok, i admit 'undead' arent realistic but youve got to have some scary moments you no. no bugs or anything,just undead and possibly another type of creature.

a few more ideas:

1. make it possible that EVERY house/building in the city is robbable or able to enter.
2. after completion of game,make it possible to carry on with the game (searching for more loot, looking for secrets)
3. make it a hole lot longer
4. maybe add a few choice and speach so you can spaek to people and try and persuade people to tell you stuff (maybe, i said maybe)
5. make the game slightly more intense, have some more missions like the cradle (only 1 or 2! if i had anymore, i wouldnt play the game, id be on the toilet all the time!)

bogey19018
25th Dec 2004, 20:47
Originally posted by bogey19018
the hell with those dead guys... stick to the real things like real people coming after you, not dead guys or big bugs.. thats not real... how about if you hook up a microphone to your system, they can hear you if you make a noise like coughing or talking? wouldnt that suck........

Lia67
26th Dec 2004, 19:38
Hi JC :)

I like the idea of being able to enter every house in the city and I'm all for the rooftops idea too. I'm not a big fan of the undead, but they do add more atmosphere to the game and keep you on your toes.

bogey19018
26th Dec 2004, 20:28
how about that one? hook up a mic to your pc and put head phones on (feed back purposes) and what ever sound you make they can hear it.....

JC 12
27th Dec 2004, 18:20
thnx lia67, im mean if your a thief in the thief games you should be able to go in every house and walk on more roofs.

and that mic option sounds cool too, anyone been on manhunt? that uses the mis option too, cool if not hard

Shadow295
28th Dec 2004, 07:19
Hi i'm new to the forum. I just like to read sumthing about the ideas about Thief4.

From the bogey, putting a mircophone in the game? what happens if some weird loud noise enters your room?

From Lia67, I'm also not a big fan of the undead. Entering every house in the city hey? cool! i like it. Then we get more loots and stuff.

My Idea. I like it if they would start a 2nd trilogy of Thief. Anyways for my idea for Thief 4. How about "The Return of the Trickster"? More gaurds, Guards on horses, New weapons and thieving equipments.

Golch
30th Dec 2004, 02:27
Hi, this is my first thief game ive played and i loved it. Just my two cents for what should be a thief 4, mainly what everyone else has already said, but i think there should be alot more just breaking into houses, like a thief would. There should be alot bigger cities and it would be awesome if you could traverse the rooftops. Another fun little item could be more secret passage ways to enter houses, their just fun to have.

Lia67
30th Dec 2004, 15:07
I was thinking that the ability to disable traps might be a good idea. As the game progresses Garrett can disable harder traps when he gets the upgrade to do so. Not a new idea mind you, it's been done in several rpgs.

I think it would be cool if each trap was like a puzzle of some sort that you have to figure out. The reward would be what ever the trap was protecting like special loot or something.

Silent_Hitman47
3rd Jan 2005, 07:26
It is not a new idea but how about multiple endings depending on how you play the game. And consequences for things like if you murder the city something BAD would happen instead of hiding from a guard and then having everything go back to normal, like there would now be a bounty on your head and you would have thugs and the Watch after you. I just hope they don't ruin the Thief series with then next one(if there is one).

Garrett's lover
3rd Jan 2005, 15:20
Originally posted by bogey19018
the hell with those dead guys... stick to the real things like real people coming after you, not dead guys or big bugs.. thats not real....

I totally agree with you! I don't like paranormal things in the game, so I'd be happy if a the "baddies" were real people.

Garrett's lover
3rd Jan 2005, 15:23
Originally posted by Shadow295
Hi i'm new to the forum. I just like to read sumthing about the ideas about Thief4.

From the bogey, putting a mircophone in the game? what happens if some weird loud noise enters your room?

From Lia67, I'm also not a big fan of the undead. Entering every house in the city hey? cool! i like it. Then we get more loots and stuff.

My Idea. I like it if they would start a 2nd trilogy of Thief. Anyways for my idea for Thief 4. How about "The Return of the Trickster"? More gaurds, Guards on horses, New weapons and thieving equipments.


OH MY GOD! Is Thief a thrilogy? Are they going to stop making Thief games?

Silent_Hitman47
3rd Jan 2005, 16:08
Thrilogy? lol, j/k. I sure hope it doesn't end with this one.

Lexicon
9th Jan 2005, 09:07
PC optimized and make it better than the last 3 that’s all I would ask.

Lebensborn
13th Jan 2005, 14:36
I like the ideas about roof top accessability and all buildings should be open, they are great ideas. I also like the idea of being able to speak through your mic great idea, i would love to be able to call one of the NPC's a taffer and watch it get annoyed. Obviously there would be limits to this, i mean u wouldn't be able to have a conversation with an A.I. but you could maybe say 1 liners and stuff relating to mission goals. Also you could make noises to distract gaurds a bit like the knocking ability in metal gear solid. You could mug people by saying to them "GIVE ME YOUR MONEY! TAFFER", lol and also you know when your in a building you shouldn't be in and you get spotted by a servent you could say to them "don't move or i'll kill you" and depending on how loud you say it a gaurd in another room might hear you and come rushing in, if not you then walk up to the servent and black jack him/her or stab them up and throw them out of a window lol

Somthing i would like to see would be a random map generator so when the game is done you can generate a random city and go exploring. You could change the size of the map depending on your comp spec and have a few options, stuff like Poshness/Poorness: this would controll the the quality of the buildings and how much loot is in them

Hill% how hilly the place is
forest% how many trees there are about
River% how many rivers there are
Gaurd% how secure the place is
Hammer% overall percentage of hammers
mechanist% overall percentage of mechs
pagan% overall percentage of pagans

and the list goes on please add more if you think of any
Something like this would give the game a huge life span and endless hours of play

bloodysabbath
13th Jan 2005, 22:54
I think what would be great is that continues from deadlyshadows garrett as a keeper now and their is something else that is after garrett like somekind of monster or a group of people that want to kill or capture or something like that still in the times that Thief:deadlyshadows took place in. Also make the city bigger and new areas where he has to explore new groups of people still keeping the pagans and the hammers more eavesdropings and paying closer attention to the people.back to the new area to explore play in the same area for a little amount of time and "the new enemy" comes and chases garrett out of the city to a new area.
For weapons give garrett new weapons like a rappel gun so he can get on roofs faster and more houses to break in more people should be in the new one.
Also just a thought make a multiplayer action like a 2 player campain that would be fun just take a minute and think about that one that would be crazy.

Lebensborn
14th Jan 2005, 00:42
i don't like the idea of a grapple gun at all, keep to the rope arrows i say. I can't believe thief 3 missed them out but i'm sure it has somthing to do with the engine, i might be wrong but i'm sure it's the splinter cell engine. So much the same like the bloom effects for one, dynamic lighting and bump mapping also what about the climb features and the lock picking. If anyone knows for sure please let me know

empty_other
14th Jan 2005, 07:00
Of course you have to have some undead, just like you have to have magic. But just do not overuse it, most of the focus should be on robbing from rich, normal humans...

And the engine is based on Unreal Engine 2.5 (Unreal Tournament 2004 is UE 2). Other games using this engine is Splinter Cell - Pandora Tomorrow, Deus Ex 2, Tribes 3, and a lot of other games.
And a rope should easily be possible to make in this engine.

And they should have the girl as mainchar (want to follow her masters footsteps) with a few appearances of Garret where you should get her out of trouble.

And the mic idea hadnt really got that many uses unless they include it as voice recognition...And it may just draw to much CPU power to be usable (like UT2004's VoiceRec).

And cooperative in Thief (or a few deathmatchmaps too, but mainly coop) had ROCKED! I have missed a real good cooperative game for years...Think about it, one person attrakt the guards attention, while the other(s) sneak past him...

And add a skill awards after each mission (and at the end of game), like if you followed all the rules of ghosting, you would be awarded "ghost", if you did many kills; "massmurderer". And a town to go roaming, and if you got wanted, they would send a bounty hunter after you (who also where able to sneak (better if your bounty are worth more).

bloodysabbath
14th Jan 2005, 14:15
i know its kinda early to ask this but does anybody know when thief 4 comes out reading all of this makes me want to play it its going to be the greatist game ever i cant wait

Lebensborn
15th Jan 2005, 05:20
empty_other i don't know if you've seen it but there is a thread going on about they want a level editor, well if it's based on the unreal engine then that comes with an editor, and importing models is easy and user friendly. I'm gonna o on there now

Lance_90
15th Jan 2005, 10:45
Originally posted by bogey19018
the hell with those dead guys... stick to the real things like real people coming after you, not dead guys or big bugs.. thats not real....

Of course there must be undead!! They are funny fellows with their loony speech!!:p BUT NO MORE SHALEBRIDGE CRADDLE LIKE PLACES!!!!!!:mad: It was so ******* place!! More thief 1 like places like catacombs and crypts! (abysmal gale was funny) But an orpheage or whatever.. No more! This is not any resident evil! this should be a sneakin game.. also more freedom in the game and make the city bigger!! i went the whole game trough in 2 days! and more monsters animals and kind of.. (I liked the cats):D Feel sorry for them... and some more humor like in the hammer catacombs the crypt: Here lies Ramirez
He loved his burricks too much.. (as everyone remembers in the metal age the mansion of ramirez.. in the cellars was a burrick pen):)

dogsolitude_uk
16th Jan 2005, 10:30
I'm happy for a departure from The City - my personal view is that this particular Garrett thread has gone as far as it can go without getting overblown and silly. I mean, he is The One, now. :)

I don't actually see why we can't put Garrett in a different environment - Games aren't Soap Operas/Novels or whatever, and Michael Moorcock's Von Beck fitted in wherever Moorcock put him, whether it was WWII, Revolutionary France or Mediaeval England...

I thought about a version of Thief set in a similarly remixed Orient a while back and posted that on this board... Imagine the wierd 'Ninja' devices that could be employed :)

Another thing I thought of (I was watching Plunkett and Macleanlast night - bloody good film :D ), how about a game where you play a Highwayman?

How about a 2d platform version, like Jet Set Willy, that you could play on your mobile phone? :D

I'm not massively fussed about another Thief Game unless it's done well. In any case I'd like to see:

1 - Customisable Difficulty Levels
2 - The ability to replay any level (perhaps once you've completed the game) without having to taff about with reloading old save games
3 - Scarey stuff. More Cradles!
4 - Rope Arrows
5 - Level Editor should definitely be on the Developer's Radar this time
6 - Develop PC version first, cut for console later.
7 - Larger levels and less loading
8 - Ability to 'ghost' all levels, and strong gameplay bias to stealth rather than kills.
9 - Benny
10 - Rooftops (imagine climbing for ages, and then emerging from a small rooftop hatch to see a glowing city spread out before you, receding to the horizon beneath a starlit night...), woodland, dogs (proper ones, not Jack Russells)...

Lebensborn
16th Jan 2005, 19:47
i played all the games.......... some of you are going on about having more cradles. Well in my opinion it was a good level but why just stop by saying more cradels. There are more scenarios than the cradle that could be scary ( I nearly shat my pants at some points). Why not instead post some ideas on what makes a level scary to you.

Things that will most certainly kill you if they detect you are always good as it makes the player feel vulnrable and forces you to sneak. I always feel the pressure when sneakin past a hard monster (and tend to jump if im detected ).

the unknown, i thought the use of sound in DS was really good. In the cradle i could hear noises but didn't know if they were being made by a monster or if it was ambiant sounds. I jumped really bad when i was walking up the stairs to the attic........Enough said

the zombies in DS are good and i thought it was cool they can run as this adds more tension to the gameplay. I think you should be able to get a zombie weapon for killing zombies, it coud be a dagger, or a zombie stake which is used once and is an item.

I think it is cool to have other types of undead but i don't think they should be guards or generic monsters placed in multiple places through out a level. I think they should be more like bosses and be unique i.e. only used once. And on the hardest skill make an objective to kill these beasts. Maybe kill them using the enviroment somehow or some magic spell stuff.

jhook
16th Jan 2005, 19:49
Hey everyone,
My opinion on the "Thief" story line is the fact of where it left off. Garrett has picked up an accolyte! This could bode well for multiplayer formats. As well as Garrett could pick-up allies thoughout the game.

Think of Garrett having to deal with getting into a Hammerite Temple, the accolyte could distract a guard, while another ally cut power to the alarm systems. After entry into the temple, they all meet up at a certain point. After that, the multiplayer or UI could have them watch Garrett's back, or do other scouting missions, or plant traps (stealthy ones), the list could go on and on.

I, for one, have enjoyed the story line so far. I tend to disagree when someone suggest that the Thief series isn't a story or soap opera. I think that adds to the emersion factor.

Another factor is the weapons that Garrett uses. Maby more types of weapons, as well as magical ones, would be a good enhancement. The name "Garrett" is also a weopon (different spelling), that could be used. As well as throwing daggars, ect.

One final thing, I enjoyed Thief TDS, The Craddle scarred the S*** out of me! I like the way sounds against a morbid scene can make your hair stand up straight! Undead can be scary! Let's put more emphisis on sound and visual trickery! And as for map size, lets make the hole area (local community) modeled so as to get a better feeling of the world of Thief. The city still ROCKS! Thanks!

Thaao
16th Jan 2005, 20:36
Ok, I'm sorry if this comes out a little disjointed, I'll do my best to keep it all in order. This is also rather detailed, and probably contains some spoilers. I'll try to word it so that spoiler information would be confusing rather than spoiling to those who don't know what I'm talking about.

First, I like the idea of a second trilogy. The second trilogy would center around a new character (the girl.) Consididering Garrett's new position as The One True Keeper, the fact that she's on the street could be simply explained. He now rules that after basic training, all accolytes must make their own way for a while.

I'd like to go back to the optional training mission as well. I hated that you had no choice in TDS but to go through the training mission, would have prefered to skip it and get straight to the first mission. Bring it back more like the one in TDP, basically just a way to teach the player the engine and game mechanics (as well as some of the equipment usage.)

While I like the idea of an open city and multiple equipment dealers and fences, I only want them if they are done more thouroghly this time around. Not this simple cheesy setup they gave us in TDS. Give us rooftops, give us sewers, give us huge maps, give us endless houses to break in too.

Get rid of the respawning crap. There should be some "scripted" additions and/or replacement of items as time goes by, but this stuff about the exact same item being in the exact same location every day is just too static for my tastes. For an example, a particular house has a box with a diamond in it, some coins on a counter, and a fire crystal in the fireplace. The next day, those items are there only if you didn't take them, and the coins are gone even if you left them before. However, there is now a valuable painting hanging on the wall in the main room. Something more along those lines.

Same thing goes for the respawning people. I understand that they wanted to make the city feel more alive by having a changing population, but more care should have been taken. People should only spawn/de-spawn when a certain distance from the players location, and guards (etc..) only to a pre-set and predictable pattern (change of watch and such.)

Bring back the extensive list of equipment. Not necessarily the same items as before, but have a substantial list of items. This is solely to make the game more flexible. Also make the loot to equipment cost alot more relavent. Players should have to sit back and make choices... Do I want that gas arrow, or do I want 4 more water arrows? This bussiness about being able to go into every mission fully stocked, regardless of how recklessly you spend your equipment during the previous mission, just makes the game far too easy.

Make more missions that are not specifically plot advancing. In TDS, beyond the first non-training mission, there were absolutely no missions that were not plot specific. This at least gives the illusion to a non-linear game. I'm not talking about the miniature side-quests (destroy/return the tree, kill bugs, moss up corners, etc...) Keep those as well, (not the same ones,) but make alot more of them.

Personally, it wouldn't bother me if you made the gloves the only climbing equipment, or got rid of them and went with rope arrows only. I would prefer both, if just to make the game more flexible, but only one would work. If the gloves are included though, make them a little more flexible. You should be able to jump off the wall and turn corners while climbing from side to side (interior and exterior.)

As far as plot goes. What I'd like to see is the Mages make a return. If the main character is the girl, give her a bit of hero worship towards Garrett (his reputation, his helping her, etc..) When the Mages go after Garrett, she steps in to put a stop to it (and get some loot as well of course,) and ends up getting involved (accidently,) with saving the world from the necromancers. The mages (also known as The Hand Brotherhood,) IMHO, need to be explored more. You have one mission with them in TDP-Gold, and 2 notes found in TMA concerning how they want to speak Garrett concerning his theft from them. In "Life of the Party," you find the tower belonging to a necromancer (who, according to notes in the mage mission in TDP-Gold, is a splinter group from the mages.) That necromancer was attempting to become an extremely powerful form of undead (Lich, I believe,) and appears to have failed. What if he succeded?

sahakka
18th Jan 2005, 00:02
The way I thought T3 would be, and T4 should be, is kind of a medieval grand theft auto type of game. The big city with total freedom, different areas to explore, total non-linear gameplay. Maybe different territories like in T3, where you can wander into pagan territory located in the outskirts forrest area, or go to the hammerites and do missions for them affecting your faction status. Basically something I think that was originally intended for Thief 3 before they got screwed into making T3 - Claustrophobic version.

Someone said horses which i think would be a great way for travelling, especially if Lords travel by carriage it would be fun to ride up and jump on the carriage or jump down from a tree or something and loot the thing.

One last idea I had was multiplayer! Coop would be a definite plus, thieves being able to help each other, share collective loot allowing them to split upm and even create distractions for each other. Heavily guarded place? Have your friend run past the guards and start a chase leaving it undefeded. Another gametype could be competative where you and another thief race to steal a special piece of loot as well as collect as much loot as possible. It'd be interesting to see the ingenious methods players would develop to get the edge, like throwing a plate near the other thief to get the guards to search him out. But then I can imagine there would complaints about it just turning into a deathmatch with no one caring about loot, but stealth deathmatch is interesting in itself. Maybe a gametype with different playable factions: Thieves Guild, Hammers, City Watch, Pagans, Keepers, Undead?

Add this multiplayer mode to the huge city where you're free to loot and do as you please (as long as you dont get caught), a great story written by the people in charge of doing that, and I think you've got a pretty good game.

One last note, as far as plot goes, it looks like garret is done but maybe something with the new kid, where he has to choose his faction among the keepers, hammers, pagans, thieves guild, etc and missions revolve around this choice as does the ending although there could be some central plot, just viewed from the many angles of each faction which would be a plus for replayability as well as letting you get involved in the history of each side. Hows that sound?

Lebensborn
18th Jan 2005, 11:21
I like the idea of robbing carriages, that would be awsome and i also agree it should be like GTA in terms of freedom. But building on your ideas about multi player.................Why not just make the multiplayer a MMORPG. A world where you can either be pagan, keeper, city watch, hammer, mechanist, guard or thief and for each of these have sub clans which players can create. Have it so you can join the main factions and work your way up to a higher rank, maybe even have differing classes for each faction. So if your a guard you can be a swordsman, archer or use crossbow. if your a mechanist maybe have it so you can use a cog mace, crossbow and maybe even have a tecnician who can build traps and bots. Each faction should have the power to take over different buildings which can then be guarded and used to make money from , except for thiefs. Have it so the richest people can opt to stop being a guard(or whatever) and run a buissness to make money, hire guards and maybe even hire a thief(or gang of) to steal those rare items u need. If your not a hammer have it so you can buy security systems off the mechanists. To compensate for hammers not being able to buy security off mechanist the hammers should be the stronger than other factions. Pagans can do loads of magick stuff And most importantly have some player stats which can be upgraded in the true nature of MMORPG's. If anyone can build on any of these ideas i want to hear them

JC 12
18th Jan 2005, 16:56
ok, im back - to make it clear ill put my other ideas from my 1st post into this one -

Character: playing as another person who is taught by garrett (seeing as garrett is the true keeper), and making your character totally customisable - eg. clothes, masks.

Location / Time: somewhere in britain possibly and around the medievil.

city landscape and stuff: make the city BIG! i dont want any tiny towns as big as my wardrobe. make the city so you can climb on rooftops, go in sewers, hijack peoples carrages and more houses to break into

other character based: being able to have a bounty on your head, a certain amount of equipment to carry.

equipment: water arrows - gas arrows - *sword/dagger - *longbow/shortbow - normal arrows/being able to set them on fire - upgrades - flashbombs etc. - blacjack - hand to hand combat eg. grab someone from behind and get them to tell you where a secret room as such is and just plane punching

*depending on how loud you want to be and takes up more inventory,
* ^^^same as above^^^

those are my ideas - still thinking of a good story line for it:D :rolleyes:

Mythrander101
19th Jan 2005, 19:49
Look, if you want to rob vehicles, then play GTA or some other car robbing, people shooting pointless game like that.

Thief is totally different! The idea behind thief is that you're a Master Thief, undetectable, don't want to make too any sound, don't want to be seen, don't want to speed down a cobblestone street on a horse an carrige making a ton of noise letting everybody know where the heck you are.

The rooftop idea is super cool, and so is jumping from wall to wall in order to turn corners.

Rope arrows would be nice, and so would be the ability to use swords like in the first Thief. And make broadhead arrows a little cheaper, like 75 per or something like that. (although toward the end it didn't matter much did it?)

Story wise, i think it's awesome that Garrett now has an apprentice! Somebody he can teach to blend in to not be seen or heard to be a thief so that she can take care of herself.

Missionwise, make more Shalebridge Cradles (oh god that was creepy!) and definetly more "Museum" like missions where there is a ton of loot to steal (Museums, jewlrey stores, etc etc.).

Just some ideas.

Myth101

JC 12
19th Jan 2005, 20:12
by 'hijack' i didnt mean get awy in it - i just meant rob people while there in their carriage or trick them and take them into a dark alley and kill them for their money, :D that was all i meant, no GTA style in thief, absolutely not! end of story

jhook
20th Jan 2005, 04:30
Originally posted by Mythrander101
Look, if you want to rob vehicles, then play GTA or some other car robbing, people shooting pointless game like that.

Thief is totally different! The idea behind thief is that you're a Master Thief, undetectable, don't want to make too any sound, don't want to be seen, don't want to speed down a cobblestone street on a horse an carrige making a ton of noise letting everybody know where the heck you are.

The rooftop idea is super cool, and so is jumping from wall to wall in order to turn corners.

Rope arrows would be nice, and so would be the ability to use swords like in the first Thief. And make broadhead arrows a little cheaper, like 75 per or something like that. (although toward the end it didn't matter much did it?)

Story wise, i think it's awesome that Garrett now has an apprentice! Somebody he can teach to blend in to not be seen or heard to be a thief so that she can take care of herself.

Missionwise, make more Shalebridge Cradles (oh god that was creepy!) and definetly more "Museum" like missions where there is a ton of loot to steal (Museums, jewlrey stores, etc etc.).

Just some ideas.

Myth101

I pretty much agree with everything here. I'm not a big fan of 1st person shooters, but Thief is very different! I don't like the idea of retiring Garrett either. His story line is excelent, and I have gotten used to hearing his thoughts thoughout the game. Garrett is now the master thief, in training with his young accolyte. I hope it stays that way. As for other factions, yeah, I like that one too. The most important thing about the next installment of Thief, has got to be an emphisis on video and audio trickery. The craddle mission is a small example of this. I hope the devs can wip up some good sounds with it. As for the current engine, it also rocks! I would simply build off that engine for the next Thief. Maby the next Thief will come out sooner that way. At least, I hope that it would.

dogsolitude_uk
20th Jan 2005, 13:50
Hmmm...

I guess my feelings are as follows:

Plotline ruins immersion for me in some ways, enhances it in others. By playing Garrett it doesn't feel like 'I'm' hiding in the shadows, but having a plot does help with the suspension of belief that's required to immerse yourself in gameplay.

Thief 4 - well, again I think I'm less inclined to want to see a continuation of the current story the more I think about it.

I'd like to see something simpler, less contrived in future. I loved Thief TDP because it was just fairly straightforward nicking stuff. In the Metal Age, you were still a Thief. This business about Allies and things - I feel that this is getting too far into RPG/Deus Ex territory.

As Warren Spector (I think it was him) said, Deus Ex is a Swiss Army Knife, Thief is a Scalpel. This is why I preferred Thief in the end.

I don't want to know everything about the Hammers and the Pagans. I'd rather leave these as mysteries, as unexplained vistas that can be interpreted differently by individuals.

Let me give you an example - I loved Dune to pieces because it was mysterious and weird. Along come a bunch of prequels written by his son and another author that explain everything in ABC fashion, thus completely ruining everything for me and a lot of other readers.

This is why I'd rather have less exposition, more theft. A 'harder' game that concentrates on stealth, darkness and tension. Bundling a Byzantine plot on top of it, I feel, dilutes the experience and devalues the currency (to mix a metaphor).

My personal ideal fourth Thief game would happily ignore the plot of the last three and instead concentrate on delivering the atmosphere of the Cathedral and the Cradle, the complexity of the puzzles in the Metal Age, and the vastly improved graphics of Deadly Shadows.

I really do not see why we should have to see games as installments in an unfolding narrative - there is a danger that this will paint the developers into a corner and stifle creativity by diverting devbelopment resources that would be better spent on developing gameplay.

I've always viewed games as a personal battle of wits between (by proxy of my PC!) the developers and myself. I'd rather sit down and have the machine say to me: "Right Dog, break into the Museum, nick 90% of the loot and steal the painting of Bafford's dog. Do not kill any guards." To which I can say to myself: "OK, I'll get the dog painting, the chalices, the necklace, steal all the loot and not alert anyone.... Hehehe... Bring it on!"

Having a setting is fine, but I don't need the PC to tell me a story to motivate doing this.

For this reason I'll be happy to have the odd expansion pack with a few random levels put in it. :)

Lebensborn
20th Jan 2005, 17:29
The GTA thing is not about thief turning into GTA. Even a fool can see that. All it's about is having a big open map and not single levels. And anyway i doubt who ever developes the next thief game will take much notice of this forum so stop gettin so serious about the whole thing. Freedom is one of the best elements a game can have for me and since thief levels normaly take place in a specific location why not have these connected on a big open map. Personaly i thought Thief 3 was alright but i still prefer 1 and 2, but the way they went on about 3 in promotion i thought it would be a bit like gta in the fact it was open and free but it turns out it's not. Who said anything about stealing cars you foolsie taffer, i aggree on the carriage thing that would be awsome. When you've played all 3 to death you need a way of keeping it fresh, after a while levels don't seem that big anymore and you need a bigger dose of thief, and that's where it all stemmed from for me. I love exploring thief levels and i do prefer mansions and urban stuff more than crypts and pagan areas, but if it were a big open map and you had to get missions off contacts you could leave out the types of areas you don't like, this way most people would be satisfied and be able to play in they're own style. Obviously any idea has it's ups and downs, i've named some ups now you point out some downs. And if you can't then stop trippin and stfu!!!!!!!!

P.S. why do you feel the need to point out your a beta tester anyone can do that you fool and i wouldn't say GTA is pointless, it's just a different style of gameplay..............CHOOSE YOUR WORDS CAREFULLY

Lebensborn
20th Jan 2005, 17:46
The thing about gta is u don't have to go about pointlessly killing but if u choose to u can. Any other murders you have to commit aren't pointless because they serve a purpose i.e. game progression. So if you think that's all gta is about then you must have a very narrow mind. Also gta has tried to implement stealthier type missions (nowhere near as good as thief tho). You obviously have never given it the time of day, so don't comment on somthing u aint got a clue about...................................................i'll shut up about gta now

bloodysabbath
22nd Jan 2005, 03:36
we have to have a cradle mission even 2 missions like that to keep the suspension up

roadbum
23rd Jan 2005, 03:51
How about a mission involving Garrett and Marla Madison the chick that runs the thief store in Stonemarket) kind of a Max Payne / Mona Sax thing, some interesting possibilities here. :p

sahakka
23rd Jan 2005, 17:55
Some of you have already nailed it: by gta i meant freedom not killing.
As for plot not mattering, its one of the reasons I love the game. Great story with great atmosphere and sound make the theif experience for me. To all of a sudden have Thief 4: Garret does laundry, and have him just try to steal things from uninteresting unrelated areas just doesnt seem as fun.

If t4 came out, it looks like some of us would want to be Garret and others the apprentice. Maybe it could be a choice with an inverse story; like If you play garret, you have to investigate the disappearance of your apprentice who was captured by 'main plot villain', and if you play the apprentice, you have to investigate why your master has gone missing (for same reason), or something like that, where theyre forced to use their stealth skills and steal because the keppers arent looking (j/k).

I think someone mentioned the advantage of a free roamable city could have: choice of missions. Some of us loved the scary ones, and some of us just want to keep it as real as possible without zombies and animals. By having certain needed 'pieces of plot' available in a couple of areas, you can, for example, avoid the ones that are said to be haunted and break into an old adventurer's castle who has already visited the place and taken the information you need, thus letting you chose to stealth the guards, or zombies and give you the same outcome. This would also be great for replay value.

the one true thief
24th Jan 2005, 13:25
Hi-di-ho , ive got some ideas (i dont know if they are repeats) but i would like to play T4 with these things :D :

1. customisable player/character/s
2. big,big,big maps
3. design for PC first
4. side quests (find them on the street or something)
5. some levels like the cradle (but with different monsters and what have you)
6. more weapons and inventory

those are only some of my ideas

Lobber
24th Jan 2005, 19:54
Two words:

Thief Online

ryanchry
25th Jan 2005, 01:49
I used to have a friend who worked for looking glass studios and these sites don't give the developers new ideas (come on...they are the kings of the game) but they do reinforce the ideas that are already on the table. They do like to hear what fans have to say about the game. We are the target audience, it only makes sense to pander to us. So while your one voice may not be heard but if an idea is liked by many and everyone talks well about it then it will get to the game creators.

Personally, I miss the sword. Garret was trained as a keeper he should act like a keeper. The dagger is a weak addition. In a sense he is a fighter, not the best, but he was trained to fight. Anyone remember the training from Thief: The Dark Project?

The master thief needs new tricks or new moves. The game needs to go the way of splinter cell in the fact that the character (Sam Fisher) has awesome new moves, abilities, and is far more agile with each new game. While still keeping his old tricks and moves. As for Garret...The addition of being able to slide down a wall was great...add some more.

Flat trajectory for fire and gas arrows!!!!

I like the enormous amount of guards but I dislike the limited ways of circumnavigating the guards. No taking to the rooftops or dawning disguises; you’re mostly stuck on the ground and in a very limited amount of free space. If there were more ways to explore, the City might have been a really cool feature.

What Thief3 does right it does well..the voices, the music and the lighting.

The load times are a killer.

Brother52
25th Jan 2005, 13:38
Overall I liked Thief 3, but as always there are things I'd like to see!

1. Rope arrows :)
2. Much bigger city, more like Vice City
3. Access all areas
- Roof tops
- Buildings
4. About the same level of supernatural stuff as T3
5. But no Zombies, I hate em!
6. All suppliers should sell all arrow types, but perhaps different prices at each.
7. Bring back the scouting orbs (or whatever it was called) from T2
8. Better modelling of bodies so that they lie more natural when dead/unconscous
9. Don't give indication of %age loot so far found when in mission, G. wouldn't know would he!
10. RELEASE THE EDITOR!!!

bloodysabbath
27th Jan 2005, 15:26
more factions more people new city new weapons new everything but you have to keep garrett in the story and no flip floping i hate playing as 2 people unless you can pick who you want to play as

David X
27th Jan 2005, 22:22
I want my sword back, the dagger is so small and useless in a real fight. Any master thief can use a sword, i enjoyed fighting like 6 guards at once.

empty_other
28th Jan 2005, 06:56
Better enemys, all of them just walk around playing a standard guard...

Like that pagan monster could have way better sense to smell you (you cant just stand 5 feet away from it, hiding in a dark spot, it WILL smell you.

The statues: They have close to unlimited patience. You may walk past something looking like a standard statue, then it suddenly attack you. You run and hide, and it stands where it last saw you, as motionless as a statue. In three hours (or until you use one of your noise arrows).

Zombies: They are okey. As long as not overused. Special missions only. It aint everyday the dead are up walking.

Other thiefs as enemies: You may sneak past a guard, when suddenly you get an arrow up your ass. You use your nightvision eye, and spot him hiding in a dark spot, hunting you! (But they never run for backup or alert anybody when spotting you).

And we need darker shadows...(i actually had to turn DOWN my brightness to see where it was dark).

And not total flat trajectory for arrows, that would have been too easy. And besides, Garret CAN shoot arrows, but he are no master of it. Besides, if he draw his bow too hard, somebody will hear the "sproing" sound when he releases the arrow. Maybe add an crossbow as an additional weapon, with flatter trajectory?

And it doesnt matter if you cant always choose character (to follow the story is more important), but please dont make the girl an american moviechick. Let her have the hood and a practical thieving suit (like her trainer).

Scrooble
29th Jan 2005, 09:20
Oh, my friends, I have the best idea of all:

A THIEF 4 THAT'S NOT SO DARN HARD ON YOUR COMPUTER!

imagine if you will, a utopian game where you don't have to close every single application on your computer (even ones you didn't even know you had, in some cases) before playing. Imagine a game that DOESN'T overheat your computer or cause crashes and freezes. Imagine a game that doesn't totally drain your graphics card and cause it to die and be replaced. Imagine never playing with the underlying fear that something's gonna burn out and cause it to go down again, EVER. :mad:

I seriously don't get it. NO game should ever have to be this high-maintainence. Ubisoft seems to have gotten the picture, at least. Never had any of these problems with the Myst games. . .. bleh. .

Lobber
29th Jan 2005, 09:33
Or you could buy some memory

Scrooble
29th Jan 2005, 10:20
Really? What type. Seems to me like there's several types. Is there anyway to cool down an overheated computer, or do you just have to wait?

the one true thief
29th Jan 2005, 15:22
the memory depends on wot your computer is. u could use DDR RAM if ur already using it, or u could replace ur existing ram with SD-RAM.

but dont just go out and buy 1!...yet, uve got to chech the pin size of the ram in your computer so u wil lno it fits :D size like PIN 133, or 172

Scrooble
29th Jan 2005, 20:39
I do know that I have 1 GB of RAM. . .. is that somehow not enough?

Episkopos Stephanus
30th Jan 2005, 06:58
An expansive city with the ability to enter all of the buildings is a nice idea, but would probably require too much work. I'd like to see more of the world, though - other cities, perhaps.


I think monsters and magic should be toned down. They always seem like an easy, lazy way to make a game 'interesting'. It would be better to make the people themselves more interesting. I'd like to see more factions, such as secret societies and cults. I don't miss the mages, though.
The flashy magic used by the pagans and hammerites and also the magical glyphs used by the keepers seemed out of place in the world of Thief, which seems like it should be a more low-fantasy setting.
Alchemy would make an excellent alternative to magic. More realistic, but arcane with its obscure symbolism.


I don't mind a few haunted levels, like the cradle, but it bothered me that the voices could be heard constantly. Since Garrett is a master thief and a keeper, he should be a moving shadow in the corners of the eyes of ghosts. The volume of the ghostly voices could depend on how visible he is, perhaps. I want shadows to be comforting.

There should definitely be more mansions. Thief III didn't have enough of those.

If another sequel is made, I hope the young acolyte girl doesn't end up being a 'sexy' character - especially if she ends up being the main character. In fact, I'd prefer if she remains young.

Co-op multiplayer would be excellent. A must, in fact.

I would like the rope arrows back, but a grapple hook would be even better.
Bringing the sword back would be nice, but why not keep the dagger as well? They both have their uses. The dagger is more stealthy and can probably be wielded faster. Its slashing attack is silly, though. Daggers are for stabbing.

Also, the hammerites should use proper grammar. It's really quite annoying how they incorrectly conjugate "to have" and "to be" in every other sentence.

dogsolitude_uk
30th Jan 2005, 11:33
Thief Online?

Wow... We could play Hide and Seek... :D

Load times really annoyed me, and so did the limitations as to where I could clamber. I like to creep round all kinds of places, and more rooves(?) would be a significant improvement.

And more mansions and large buildings to rob.

Like I've said before, I'd rather see less worry about plot, Hammers, little girls and more emphasis on developing the gameplay. I found all the guff about the Keepers and intrigue and that rather distracting, especially as I couldn't make any choices in the matter regarding what I did.

Whereas I loved the Clocktower, I think sabotaging it was a very silly thing to do, and rather out-of-character for Garrett.

My ideal solution would be an expansion pack and editor released, containing say, 10-20 new levels, developed for the PC, with Rope Arrows, and a few Cradles. :D

Scrooble
30th Jan 2005, 19:27
[QUOTE=If another sequel is made, I hope the young acolyte girl doesn't end up being a 'sexy' character - especially if she ends up being the main character. In fact, I'd prefer if she remains young. QUOTE]

Oh, totally. I'd like her to grow up, but her character design has to be right. . like, she can be pretty. . I mean, Garrett himself is pretty good looking, but she has to be smudged and dirty. . hmm. . a few scars would be nice, too. Also, no scantilly-cladness. . .she's a thief. Must be attired in the all-encompassing secretive cloak and hood. ^_^ And she should have a non-annyoing. . non-porn star-like voice. :D It should be deep. . .I like women with deep voices.

BigBears2
30th Jan 2005, 20:35
I seriously don't get it. NO game should ever have to be this high-maintainence. Ubisoft seems to have gotten the picture, at least. Never had any of these problems with the Myst games. . .. bleh. .

I seriously disagree, the crap is hitting the fan over at UBI because they shafted Far Cry fans and the new Myst IV is DVD-rom only and is 50% incompatable with almost every DVD unit, has a secret list of blacklisted software conflicts with it's copyright software and 50% bad disks shipped they are trying to ignore.

Now back to the point.

1) Make the game for computers and dummy it down for those console people. Don't repeat making it for the crappy consoles and trying to dress it up for computer.

2) Don't try to improve the games look or play to get more sales. When you strip a game of it's feel and look it spoils the whole sequel thing because it's a new game and not a sequel. Go back to the same way Thief: The Metal Age was done. It had better look, play, bigger levels, more to do and cut scenes at the start and end of each level which added to the plot.

3) Don't waste disk space with the on-line play stuff most games add to make money with pay-to-play sites they close anyway. If you really want to do something like that make it where if you have two computers Lan networked you can install from one game and play together from both computers. This would make it a family friendly game as siblings, friends and even husband and wives can help each other and play together. They could play as Two Garretts or one as Garrett and one as the kid. An On-line play option could be offered for download from the pay-to-play site and installed after the fact.

4) Make sure the game is finished before it's release. I doubt I was the only one that noticed Garrett had features in only a few of the cut scenes. Sometimes he looked like a incomplete model they forgot to finish lacking texture and detail.

5) Address problems in the US market and not just release it overseas and fix all thier problems then ignore the problems when it's realeased here. Hire tech supprt people that know what a computer is and how it works not just the same old blame the caller at all cost, read the script only staff you have now.

As far as story I like the idea that it picks up with the kid grabbing his arm in the street at the end of the last one. Garrett has more riding on his skills than he ever had before. He takes the kid in and begins training her as his replacement only to have her kidnapped. All the factions deny any knowledge of it and blame each other for the kidnapping. Garrett has to find out who took her, then find her all while trying to keep the factions from killing each other. Not only can't he go to the police but they maybe to blame or working for those who have the kid. Toward the end of the game Garrett finds the kid and gets captured getting her out. Not only does the child have to rescue him, she discovers the special abilities she never knew she had. Unknown to Garrett she is the decendat of the wiccan woman that helped him and died in the second game. Not only that but it was his blood to make the aliance with the wiccan also made the child which would make the child his. In her battle to free the only friend she ever had she discovers who her mother was and that Garret is her father. in the final battle between her and those holding Garrett her full abilities come out. After she rescues Garrett she is a driving force that unites the wiccans and the keepers in peace.

Scrooble
31st Jan 2005, 03:18
Oh, I haven't played Myst IV yet :D . . . the previous ones were pretty good, at least.

ryanchry
1st Feb 2005, 18:06
As far as story I like the idea that it picks up with the kid grabbing his arm in the street at the end of the last one. Garrett has more riding on his skills than he ever had before. He takes the kid in and begins training her as his replacement only to have her kidnapped. All the factions deny any knowledge of it and blame each other for the kidnapping. Garrett has to find out who took her, then find her all while trying to keep the factions from killing each other. Not only can't he go to the police but they maybe to blame or working for those who have the kid. Toward the end of the game Garrett finds the kid and gets captured getting her out. Not only does the child have to rescue him, she discovers the special abilities she never knew she had. Unknown to Garrett she is the decendat of the wiccan woman that helped him and died in the second game. Not only that but it was his blood to make the aliance with the wiccan also made the child which would make the child his. In her battle to free the only friend she ever had she discovers who her mother was and that Garret is her father. in the final battle between her and those holding Garrett her full abilities come out. After she rescues Garrett she is a driving force that unites the wiccans and the keepers in peace.

My my my...you've thought alot about this. There seems to be too much coincidence though. Also, each game reminds us that Garret is a master thief rarely seen and never caught. Now that Garret has labeled himself as a keeper will he give up his thieving for the keeper ideals? Perhaps this new child could follow the same footsteps as her master..be trained as a keeper but find better ways to use her skills.

jtbalogh
2nd Feb 2005, 18:43
I agree with the other great ideas mentioned in previous posts. One idea:

1.
Allow Garrett to more easily blackjack/knife seated or laying people. Crouch to make blackjack even more successful.

2.
Thief4 could recover victims who were blackjacked after a period of time from a few seconds to a few minutes.

- Unconscious longer if victim was frail.
- Unconscious longer if hit with blackjack better.
- If blackjack was not very accurate, then disorient victim for a few seconds.
- If blackjack was not successful at all, then enemy responds immediately.

City respawing does not apply here, since for dead people. As they get up, they could start to moan, remain disoriented for a few seconds and become alert. If they had no weapon, they would run to report the incident. If they had a weapon which dropped, they would look for it to pick up or run for backup. Garrett has the option to pick up any dropped weapons and hide them from the victim. Funny if Garrett was carrying the body, it awoke, hit him, had to be dropped, and remained disoriented for a few seconds. Funny if Garrett threw body into locked closet or room, it awoke, could not get out and called for help. In all cases, the AI would restore everyone to the unalert position after awhile.

jtbalogh
2nd Feb 2005, 18:48
Thief4 could continue to use configuration files or whatever for PC users to tweak,

- option to walking by default, SHIFT to run.
- option to shrink size of fonts, compass, gem, etc.
- etc.

Slazenger
2nd Feb 2005, 23:38
Let me say first that I really enjoyed Thief III, and would love to see a fourth game.
-It should definately be on the next wave of consoles, so that they can create a better graphics engine.
-And this engine shouldn't divide the levels into zones; that takes away from my thieving experience.
-If the game's to be made, make sure it's polished. I don't want to see any rushed craap.

-And less zombie/undead missions. I find those less believable, and by far prefer robbing an old castle or museum.

-Now, the AI in the first game was good, but there were some issues with guards running into and getting stuck on surrounding objects. This should be fixed in the new game.
-I also think that when you throw a flashbomb at a guard, you should be able to sneak around him while he is rubbing his eyes, and kill him with one blow. He shouldn't immediately regain his awareness and fight back. The same thing goes with the moss arows, which were really useless.
-Also, make sure the game doesn't ship with major glitches. That's simply unacceptable.
-Another good idea might be more detailed blood effects. Lets say you kill a guard with a dagger. Aside from the initial pool of blood, there should be a blood smear or drops of blood that leading to where you bring the body.
-Most importantly, keep the game realistic to settings time and location. (with some exceptions for this "slightly different" medieval themed world.)

Thats about it

TheJoker
3rd Feb 2005, 10:42
Some ideas...

It is quite annoying when the game have to load in every place in the city.
Hope they will get rid of that :rolleyes:

1.keep the kurshoks (hope it spells like that :confused:) the undeads and all the other creatures.
2.Bigger city would be really fun.
3.Walk on the rooftops
4.More houses that you could break into (that`s always fun)
5.City watch could be little more clever

I already think it`s a great game but imagine a greater THIEF 4! :D

jtbalogh
3rd Feb 2005, 16:02
I wish:

- Edit the maps ourselves to mark important information, like we used to. Can a thief have a writing instrument, or is he/she illiterate?

- Steal more accurate secret maps hidden somewhere, if any.

- Make a secret mark on the ground or walls with the dagger. Mark of Zorro. Just joking. :p

In the spirit of the game, I assume ****ty maps in general belonged to inhabitants who already lived there, so they were handwritten and hardly detailed blueprints. They were probably stolen by Garrett or secretly sold to Garrett by shody characters. (Personally I would get a refund ... oops, I mean steal my money back ...)

dogsolitude_uk
7th Feb 2005, 10:14
I like the idea of being able to leave marks on the walls. Once or twice I have found myself getting lost... :)

Having the 'don't kill anyone/no blackjacking' restriction on some of the difficulty levels would be pretty cool, as well as (and this has just hit me right this minute) Player Rating Levels...

Imagine, the game would give you grade based on how silent you were or how generally 'invisible' you were, e.g :

Drunken vandal
Fairly Clumsy
Poltergeist
Ghost
Very rich ghost

...Obviously they'd need to be a bit more poetic than that! I just remember how cool it was when playing Elite, every now and then I'd get 'Right On, Commander!' and suddenly find I was 'Deadly'...

Like I say, it's the Gameplay side of things like this that's important to me rather than the plot stuff. I like to feel as if I'm really achieving something :D when playing about on the computer *Dog looks around, somewhat guiltily, at the high-entropy domestic-disaster zone that is his house*

empty_other
7th Feb 2005, 11:49
NOT less magic world. Keep it like that, or take more from the Steampunk style (maybe use a few gadgets from "The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen", both the movie and the cartoon(YES the cartoon WAS better)).

Remember this is a technological advanced world. I mean, look at Garrets mechanical eye, not even our today scientist have yet made such a device. Its probably not made of just technology, and its not any electronics in it. Its driven by magic.

But i want the possibility to destroy all those electrical lights. Just shoot a normal arrow at it to break it. It would spark a little, make a LOT of noise, and make every guard around act as alerted as if they themself had been attacked.
(No "Those electrical lights never last anyway")

jtbalogh
9th Feb 2005, 05:03
(included from a previous post)

I wish Thief 4 handles third person (3PS) without cheats.

1. Keeps objects/enemy hidden when around corners in 3PS view. Garrett must move to look around the corner to display it.

2. Keeps objects/enemy hidden behind Garrett in 3PS view. Garrett must turn slightly until the normal 180 degree perspective displays it.

3. Brings back swimming, rope climbing, turning on ladder, etc. and automatically switch to FPS if there was no time from developers to design body awareness for 3PS view.

4. Makes levels considering FPS and 3PS so objects/enemy are not just put right in the middle of a hallway where anyone can see.

Cheers.

thief boy
9th Feb 2005, 07:32
hi guys,

just played thief3, and IMO think thief 1 & 2 still the best. i mean u got rope arrow there in t1-2 :) .

btw, here the list for thief4 hehehe...
1. rope arrow. or i'm thinking, since you can switch view in t3, maybe next thief you can do somethng like prince of persia sands of time. jumping or running through walls. that kinda acrobatoc abilities. or hv the abilities like splinter cell jumping from wall to wall.. u know what i mean?

2. bigger map. hopefully more like t1-2 map, '"seperate map" like t3 lacks the freedom to me :D

3. i havent played all through the level t3, but i think more undead is okay... maybe put some creatures from medivel types... zombies... mummy hehehehe

4. able to robe from every house :D

5. more flexible and faster movement (garret movement of course). maybe add another move so he can lay on ground... or swim :cool: ...

6. well... what else... mmmm.... maybe more weapon...? like net-arrow or maybe making traps... hehehe

well thats all my thoughts....

empty_other
9th Feb 2005, 11:05
I started thinking about being able to jump away from the wall you climbs idea. You know he's usually climbing a brickwall with maybe only 2cm to grip...

If he should be able to jump away from a wall over to another, he shouldt be able to grab the wall unless theres something bigger to catch along it. Think about it, or try it out. Grabbing and holding yourself to a 2cm grip while in a fall is close to impossible...

bloodysabbath
12th Feb 2005, 23:48
have it like if you want to play the level again where its different every time so you dont get board of the level

Gervasius
15th Feb 2005, 07:12
Hello all, first post on this board. Just wanted to add my $.02.

The cradle was good and all but I was glad to be through with it. I don't like the undead and I can take or leave some of the pagan nature levels, althought he ending to the pagan sanctuary was awesome.

More rooftops is a must. There were more secret passages and rooftops in the metal age and it is a better game for it.

Also, bring back rope arrows. Those were the best. They brought a very clever and appealing aspect of the game. If used properly, they were a lot of fun.

Too bad you can't bring back karras. That guy was comedy.

Also, I liked more explanation in metal age about why the city watch hates garret. In dark project he is just wanted. There should be more missions into their HQ. Bring back the cameras where appropriate. Along with those big robots that shot cannon balls but could somehow be brought down with a well placed water arrow or 2. Those were awesomely intimidating.

the one true thief
22nd Feb 2005, 21:59
ok, this is what i want to see in the next thief (if there will be. *hopefully*)

1. skill in thieving if playing as the girl - eg. you would have to follow the NPC around to pickpocket until you got the bag of coins of him/her. the more pickpocketing did, then the less time it takes to take the next bag of coins

2. customizable character - hell, i loved playing as Garrett in thief 1,2 and 3 but if we do play as the girl then you should be able to customize her looks/clothes

3. Bigger levels/city - now, everyone has to agree with me here. i want big levels like in thief 1 & 2

4. keep the out of mission play - i like the way thief 3 had the option to run about in the city with out nessecerliy doing the mission

5. more roof top and sewers - thief 3 just wasnt right without the sewers and rooftops :( we need more like from T1 and T2

6. side-quests - being able to get hired by people who might want pay-back on his enemy or something, rewards such as the loot you find or a sack of gold from the guy would be nice :D

7. Swimming - teach Garrett how do bloody swim! what did he get? amnesia or something?

8. (these are minor things) i dont want to see silly stuff like trading in a bag of coins...for coins! i mean, what the hell happens there. cant Garrett open a little bag? oh, and voice acting would be cool. like you could say something to get a guards attention.
and have some type of stealth inventory like sword would be louder than dagger and so on...

well, im too lazy to type anymore ideas :D so ill leave it there for now, BYE

Mythrander101
26th Feb 2005, 16:31
Hello,

Well, my idea is kind of, I don't konw, lame. but it could be sort of interesting. Think of it as the battle of the thieves.

Garrett is a MASTER thief right?? Well, say another MASTER thief from another city decides to test Garrett at his own game. Soon, there are reports comming in from other sections of City about a master thief. Garrett is a little confused and surprised that there is another master thief, since he has never really had any competition.

Since people in the city hire Garrett sometimes, they could also hire this new thief. Then the theives would have a theiving duel. Whoever could pull of the greatest heist or most heists would win and the other would have to retire or leave. One could also do the job another was hired to do, and recieve the payment.

It is not fully developed yet, but it's probably not worth persuing anyway. It's just an idea.

Myth101

P.S. Please make it so that when you climb walls with the gloves, you can turn corners and leap from one wall to another (like from one wall on one side of the street to the wall on the opposite side).

cainetheelder
26th Feb 2005, 21:33
all these ideas are simply great; but i would like to add a few more.

1> how about having our beloved garrett move ahead in time? you know like since he is now a keeper; he could trace out the destiny in the medieval age and then move on to modern era with a totally different perspective; this should be done in different parts of course but i think this will certainly make it a lot BIGGER!

2> he should be able to interact with the localites and plan out a strategy cause in real life its never that easy to do the breaking in all by yourself!

3> some of these people could be, however, part of the citywatch !and put garrett in a fix as the story unfolds.....

4> there should always be kind of alternatives to do every mission; one could be a more direct carnage approach requiring a lot more heart and the other could be stealthy with someone help; mayhap a girl like the one in stonemarket proper.....

5> bribing these citywatch critters could be another cool addition to the gameplay....

6> you should be able to disguise and enter the place during so as to check it out...just to make sure a more efficient burglary later that day.

7> how about pagans or/and the hammerites agree to help garrett on his way to a particular play if he performs some task for them? this could include giving him a few special powers of these factions or even let some of their members to go with garrett on his mission!

8> let us have a more SMART VILLIAN please!!!!!!!! this 'hag' or 'gamall' whtever u call her was not at all a match for our garrett. the villian should be atleast aware what he is up against and plot accordingly; no dark corners; no distraction by noisemaker arrows and so on.............at the sametime garrett could then play diplomatically by coping a few people on his side by 'persuading' them with his stealth asset.

-let us not forget that bieng a thief is not just being physically fit to climp rooftops and slime away when the need arises, he/she has to be psycologically trained too.

black fang
27th Feb 2005, 20:09
horse and carts should be added
like outside many of the shops in T3 there are carts - merchants and rich aristocrats should travel the city, and garrett can just steal the contents or hold up the cart highwayman style (although the driver would just call the city watch)
also mounted guards!!! guards on horses - damn fast, harder to kill, impossible to blackjack would make it a whole lot harder, would make the gas arrows a whole lot more useful

also liked the ideas of other thieves who try to rob you, and being able to bribe the guards :D

and make the city BIGGER!!!

cliffmeister
4th Mar 2005, 10:57
hi
(sorry is this is a repost)

why not make some vehicles in T4 like a cart with a donkey or something, and more weapons and different types of gaurds, ordinary gaurds, captains archers en more ranks

Arch_Angel
4th Mar 2005, 18:27
This is just an idea, but it doesn't seem right for garrett to have a sword, a dagger, a bow, and a buttload of arrows and still be able to move around silently. I think they should add weapons that can be picked up/stolen and then dropped. (When you have a sword you are more noisy) As well as having less arrows but making them more acquirable in a mission. By less arrows I mean less amounts of arrows (50 arrows? That would weigh like 70 pounds, no thief carries that much crap) But the guards are armed and you can steal stuff from them (swords, arrows, armor as a disguise other cool medieval weapons such as axes and maces.) While this might take away from the stealth part of the game the thief should be heavily penalised for just fighting. If too many guards are killed then the owner of whatever you are robbing just locks it down. The physics should also be fix. I remember as a joke i rolled one of the massive barrels down the stair in the tavern. It just bounced off a guard and the shattered after touching A BLOODY BOTTLE. Realistic physics...yeh right. I remember in Deux Ex stuff would break, ie you couldn't throw a GLASS bottle against the wall and have it stay intact. I do remember that it was hilarious to push the gear on the head of the pagans in the pagan sanctuary. While a thief wouldn't do that often it should be an option. One example would be to put out torches with glasses of water(that you can acquire from the kitchen or whatver) Also drugged food. Be a cool way to get rid of a guard to drug his food/slip him a mickey. BIGGER CITY, with very few houses that are inaccessible, I hated that. Garrett is now a keeper, he should be able to use some of their powers. (I mean this as something that is kept down, but it would be cool to have some magic powers other than just opening a magic door. I guess Garrett could put marks on the wall only he could see as a keeper, be a cool way to keep track of where you are. Unconscious people should wake up, otherwise there is no point whatsoever to backstabbing someone, and that was really cool to do. Alarms Alarms Alarms. This is after TMA, right, so what happened to all the tech like the cameras and stuff? Did it just magically break after Soulforge? Darker Game, TMA had massive shadows, could barely see them in DS. Much more suspicious guards, some of the guards even near the end just went back to normal after seeing a friend shot in front of their eyes after like five minutes. I personally liked the story, but a random mansion generator would be awesome (I personally don't expect this but a guy can hope) Garrett should have some living expenses, as well as having to steal/buy food. In all of the time in DS I never saw him eat, even though food was nearby. No dialog, that isn't what a Thief is about, any dialogue should be in cut scenes or scripted. (I know this sounds stupid, but Garrett is a loner, he doesn't talk to people, no one knows his voice, he leaves no trace, dialog would ruin that.) I haven't decided about the girl yet, maybe she could be his apprentice on missions or there could be two different viewpoints of co-op missions (like Mona and Max in MP2) She should also be in charge of doing certain things he can't (due to size and gender limitations if nothing else such as he slips her in through a window to shut down an alarm or something) Either that or she has been killed/kidnapped and that has something to do with the story. Factions should be allowed, that was cool to see hammers and pagans fighting each other, but it wasn't taken far enough with only two. ROPE ARROWS ARE NEEDED. I loved them in TMA, especially the bank. I remember using a series of rope arrows to cross a room with those big metal killbots or whatever they were called, that was just an awesome way to do something. Side Quests were cool as well, but the city needs to be tweaked, like money shouldn't keep respawning, that doesn't even make logical sense. HMMM... I are ignorant peasant, my coins were stolen from the counter last night in plain sight, lets hide them here again, he would never think of that... Less killing, the player should be more penalised if he/she kills guards. Change the shop system, It was wierd to have the exact same goods being sold at different shops for the exact same price, really killed the immersion factor. ROOFTOPS and SEWERS are key. The follow mosley mission in TMA and the angel watch mission both let you take to the rooftops, how cool was that.

cliffmeister
4th Mar 2005, 18:46
everybody only talks about bigger city and more "brains"for the A.I.'s and more weapons but then the problem can be that you haveto have a very fast computer so a lot of people (esspecialy those who get a computer from their parents) think this is to much money, has anyone thought of this. Don't get me wrong, the most ideas are very good and ik start drewling only thinking of Tief4

#cliffmeister#
hope i haven't insulted anybody

dogsolitude_uk
6th Mar 2005, 16:56
To be honest Cliffmeister, Thief 1 and 2 keep me coming back, Thief III's fine but small levels and load times take away a lot of the challenge. And what with the contrived plot as well...

Thief III was very atmospheric, and it looked beautiful. The Cradle was truly terrifying.

I just feel that it lost a lot of it's simplicity.

I don't like having to rake through loads of save-games that are only distinguishable by the date to play my favourite levels...

I'm not massively fond of the lack of ingenuity in the level design either. In Thief 2 we had Angelwatch and Masks.

Don't get me wrong, I love Thief III to pieces, it just lacks that feeling of "I know, I'll go back and play *that* level again..." which the first two had in abundance!

Gervasius
7th Mar 2005, 01:29
Hell yeah, Angelwatch, soul forge, and the thieves highway. Long live TMA.

RANKSRAGGY
7th Mar 2005, 04:59
Interaction with other Super Thieves who are peers with Garrett. Either help with side missions or steal from each other as a sort of game of one-upping the other guy. "The Purple Pilferer Strikes again!!"

More gadgetry - periscopes for looking under doors! Maybe a tin of sticky balm so you can climb walls and hang from ceilings for a short period of time.

Further development of Garrett's Keeper/Glyph abilities sending him farther down the path towards greatness and prophecy.

Include a world editor with the game for player designed missions.

The forging of a seperate personna for Garrett as some sort of mysterious but high level beurocrat in charge of the City Watch, whom they fear greatly, but who has a price on his head from other factions. He could assume this identity every once in a while to move around town without raising suspicions. Lots of fun with this idea!! Like you can't shop at a fence's place because you're a "cop!" Ha!

cliffmeister
7th Mar 2005, 20:50
To be honest Cliffmeister, Thief 1 and 2 keep me coming back, Thief III's fine but small levels and load times take away a lot of the challenge. And what with the contrived plot as well...

Thief III was very atmospheric, and it looked beautiful. The Cradle was truly terrifying.

I just feel that it lost a lot of it's simplicity.

I don't like having to rake through loads of save-games that are only distinguishable by the date to play my favourite levels...

I'm not massively fond of the lack of ingenuity in the level design either. In Thief 2 we had Angelwatch and Masks.

Don't get me wrong, I love Thief III to pieces, it just lacks that feeling of "I know, I'll go back and play *that* level again..." which the first two had in abundance!


i have never played a thief game before (thief 1 for 5 minuter) cause thief 1&2 weren't sold overhere

dogsolitude_uk
8th Mar 2005, 20:43
I had the idea of a monkey that you could shove under the door and it would fetch stuff for you, alerting guards if you were unlucky, perhaps acting as a distraction or something. It could even be called Topov and wear a little fez.

I don't think the idea will catch on though.

Horlox
8th Mar 2005, 20:45
One thing I`d like to see and hasn`t been mentionned are booby trapped chests and loot. It would be fun and more realistic to be able to choose tools to disarm the traps. Traps that could blow up, intoxicate with gas, alarm guards,

The locks were all the same, some had only more pins to move. I want to see different types of locks and choose different picks to open them. lockpicks that can break if you choose the wrong ones and jam the lock.

I definetly want to see more rooftops!! T3 left me bitter about roofs as there weren`t enough and not really usefull in this game. It got repetitious to navigate through the streets all the time. The climbing gloves were nice but I couldn`t go anywhere! I was restricted so much.

I liked when there were wars between factions and monsters in the streets. It provided a good show.

The stores were ridiculous, it looked like they were done in a hurry. I want better stores, more equipment like tunics, chain mails, different types of bows, daggers an array of lockpicks, tools for booby traps etc.

Maps. It would help out a lot if there was a little map under the compass showing your location. It took me forever to figure out where I was and where to get to the next part of town. The maps provided in the inventory weren`t detailed enough.

dogsolitude_uk
8th Mar 2005, 20:50
Booby traps?

Dude, could you imagine how much fun that would be on Multiplayer?

Thief Vs Thief anyone?

:D

dogsolitude_uk
8th Mar 2005, 20:52
Oh, and Cliffmeister, I don't know where you live mate, but www.amazon.co.uk still have the first two Thief games for a few pounds each.

cliffmeister
9th Mar 2005, 11:31
I live in Holland, in a city called terneuzen and the variaty of games sold here is very low :mad:

c6jones720
9th Mar 2005, 13:25
Given that the level editor for Thief DS is out now It shouldnt be long before some of the ideas on this thread get put into practise. Personally I think Thief 4 should offer all of the best combined features from Thief 1, 2 and DS. Garrett should be able to climb using either rope arrows or gloves, he should swim, use frog beasts eggs and scouting orbs and do all the things they left out in DS. Couple that with a few good level and were laughing.

Ian Flaer
9th Mar 2005, 14:55
Booby traps?

Dude, could you imagine how much fun that would be on Multiplayer?

Thief Vs Thief anyone?

:D
if you want multiplayer thief look to a game mod called Thievery for the original Unreal Tournemant. it's a blast and yes, there's a Thief vs Thief match as well thieves vs guards. yes the guards can be played by real people. check it out at www.blackcatgames.com they are working on a mod for UT 2004 called night blade that will be prettier, more like T3 graphics

dogsolitude_uk
9th Mar 2005, 19:36
Thanks! Will check that out! :)

Mythrander101
9th Mar 2005, 21:41
Item Idea:

It's an arrow with a really sticky substance on the tip. What you do, you attatch one end of the arrow (there is a bit of rope on the end w/ sticky stuff on it) to a wall (made of any material, since the sticky stuff sticks on any surface) shoot the arrow to another wall across the way and it sticks to the surface. now you have a rope spanning the distance. you can then climb along it or slide along it using some sort of "wheel on a stick" system. You catch my drift??

Myth101

dogsolitude_uk
10th Mar 2005, 18:58
This is a bit dubious, and I haven't really thought it through, but how about a (very rare) diamond-tipped arrow that could either be sold or used to break really tough things?

edliu512
14th Mar 2005, 13:08
I don't know if this has been mentioned, but I always wanted to be able to hang from the roof rafters in a tavern and nick loots lol.

Ian Flaer
14th Mar 2005, 23:00
I don't know if this has been mentioned, but I always wanted to be able to hang from the roof rafters in a tavern and nick loots lol.

*sigh* in the days of rope arrows. . .

yes, I liked doing that too. need rope arrows. . .

I hear it's being worked on would swear I saw something in a post in the editor's guild. they have a pretty good fire elemental. . . forums are here:
http://www.ttlg.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=138

LittleSpender
20th Mar 2005, 13:52
I get the running theme that zombies are like Thief Marmite - you either love 'em or you hate 'em.

How about "optional" missions (not side-quests, but say a choice of 2 or 3 paths) which advance the story in different ways. Say you need a particular artifact you can either venture down into the bonehoard to get it, or there's another one in somebody's private collection in their mansion. You choose which way you want to get it. You could even be able to "fail" one way and have no option but to go to the other place to get it.

This could add considerable replay opportunities as well.

Alternatively - how about Thief versus Tomb Raider.... ok - maybe not ;)

Gervasius
20th Mar 2005, 19:27
I would like to see a thief game that is a bit more non-linear. Either that or a few more side quests to make the feel more non-linear. The levels in TDS were almost like an arcade game vs TMA which had huge city levels where you could go anywhere. They both stick to a pretty well thought out path but in TMA you feel like you have more freedom. If they incorporated the vastness of the city in TMA with the ability to do more missions in different orders for different characters it might be fun. For instance, there has to be many more noble rich types in the city who could have their own residences. If garret had the choice to meet up with some shady characters here and there and get jobs to rob the rich folks that would be fun. It could be totally optional but provide extra loot for toys. Also, they would have to bring back rope arrows and maybe even a few potions. The slowfall potion was pretty useful on levels where you were falling from great heights.

Arch_Angel
28th Mar 2005, 04:14
what about a garotte for garret? it takes time to kill people, but they are down and you can pull them into the shadows with no blood. Also shouldn't unconscious guards wake up? makes the dagger/sword/melee weapon close to useless if there is no practical difference between unconsciousness and death. how about guards with dogs eh? like the dogs can smell you and track you unless you kill them or jump in water.

silkydolly
23rd Jan 2006, 06:51
I'm a big fan of Thief series. I suggest to put a time limit in Thief 4 (If there would be a Thief 4 - I do hope they will make one though :D ) In all Thief series missions get started in the middle of night but you can play it as long as you want! What if there is a time limit that you are required to finish missions within 2 hours? Wouldn't that be more fun and stressful? Or maybe just put the time limit in 2 or 3 missions?

silkydolly
24th Jan 2006, 06:30
Oh you think? But I'm already one of those taffers :cool: I'm just wondering if there would ever be a new Thief game. Seems to me that the whole story has finished anyway *sighs*

ShadowStalker
24th Jan 2006, 19:43
(I liked the cats):D

Ha! I agree. But when a cat walks too close to the fireplace, it shouldn't simply screech and fall over dead - bleeding. It should go up in flames and tear around the room and Garrett should gag from burnt hair smell, etc...
THEN it should fall over dead and bleed! :D

Gillie
25th Jan 2006, 03:45
Ha! I agree. But when a cat walks too close to the fireplace, it shouldn't simply screech and fall over dead - bleeding. It should go up in flames and tear around the room and Garrett should gag from burnt hair smell, etc...
THEN it should fall over dead and bleed! :D

I think personally you are missing the point of the Game.It is not a comedy. :eek: Find that not funny,to see animals maimed even in animation.
Thief is about "Sneaking". :(

silkydolly
26th Jan 2006, 05:33
Anyone loved the oil flasks?

O.Z
26th Jan 2006, 09:31
You know guys all your ideas are funny and all but don't forget that Thief is all about silent death. Hell I agree with the idea that Garrets days as a lone hero are over, now it's time to teach the others.(Remember the beggining of thief 1 and the ending of thief 3). It's the moment to enter the scene a new hero guided by Garret, a sort of Blade and master type of relation if you like, but the most impotant thing to remeber is that things are changed during this time in the medieval. The other races are getting smarter and their weapons more deadly so I was thinging about a dark assasin kind of thief.
Next thing forget the bow it was for the rude and old fathers way. :cool: And for God's sake give that new boy a heavy reapeating dedaly firing arrows crossbow...

dogsolitude_uk
26th Jan 2006, 17:35
OK, so the bow goes and is replaced by a cross bow, and we lose Garrett... :confused:

We actually may as well pester Ion Storm or whoever for a competely new game... :D

I'd like to see either Ninja-style work in a steampunk-remixed Feudal Japan, complete with ancestor ghosts, or something in creepy forests with highwaymen in tricorns. :cool:

I'd far rather that than spin the franchise out with a new character and substantial changes to the gameplay - it would get tired in terms of both theme and narrative... :thumbsup:

Olorin
27th Jan 2006, 00:01
i would like a new theif to have these things

throwable knives, (as long as you dont remove them there is no blood)

trake place in feudal asia instead of europe,

be more assasin than steal, still need the stealth...but its more interesting to kill people (eg. lord ember, or lady elizabeth) than just ignore them

have a lot less weird fantassy stuff ( i hated the undead...just too unrealisctic) the mechanical eye was fine but the levels of hell in T1 and other such things were too far out and kinda spoiled the story lien for me

smarter guards that keep lookign for you if they actually see you...why would they give up in real life

a hand crossbow instead of a bow, but it has to be small so you can wind it with your fingers

silkydolly
27th Jan 2006, 02:29
Please let Garrett stay!!! I love his sexy voice. :cool: Maybe Garrett is now a keeper but he is a cynical person and he might like to remain being a master thief. I would like him still the hero.
I agree on bigger cities, bigger maps, rope arrows and maybe some other cool stuff. Also guards can be awakened after blackjacked and back to work! Better AI please! And keep the undead and other creepy creatures. Burricks were cool in Thief1. And btw I loved the Cradle!! Great atmosphere! :)
Also I would be happy to move to Australia because I could get new games quickly over there!

silkydolly
27th Jan 2006, 06:32
I think (and hope) we've seen the last of Thief. It went out on in an 'ok' kind of way....not the triumphant game I had hoped for, but it was alright. The Trilogy is complete, we don't need another company taking the concept even further from its roots and crucifying it even more. I don't want to sound arrogant, but I've spent the last 2 years tweaking Thief 3 to be closer to what it should have been. I don't think I have the energy to do it again.[/QUOTE]

I agree with that. Really there is no reason to make a new Thief game. THE STORY HAS ENDED! It's sad to think about but it's true. I just hope they would make another new stealth game for me to play - not Splinter Cell though.

dogsolitude_uk
27th Jan 2006, 11:37
I completely and wholeheartedly agree with that...

As the King said to Ford Prefect in Douglas Adams' Mostly Harmless :"Let it all go..." :thumbsup:

Thief has been a huge influence on modern gaming, and I'm sure it's an influence that will continue to be felt for many years to come.

Far better that new games using similar mechanics are devised than for devs and suitmen to cash shamelessly in on a perfectly good brand, and dilute it to hell in the process. I'd hate for what happened to Dune and the Alien films to happen to Thief. :(

Olorin
28th Jan 2006, 01:30
Ummm....why not just play a different game if you don't want Thief...to even be Thief? There are enough games on the market that focus on killing. Speak for yourself, but sneaking and stealing is far more exciting to me than mindless 'we've done this in every game' killing.
.


its not that i just want to do mindless killing(i have more than enough of those games)...what i mean is you are a specific assasin, you must kill your target and no one must notice...therefore you have to evade gurads and not kill or knock them out, evade servants...you can only win if you hit solely your target . of course on the side you can steal every thing you come upon as to get new equipment (better assasin weapons, poisons, and the likes)..but w/e

rushyyz
28th Jan 2006, 17:48
I think the bounty is a great idea. One of my favorite aspects of playing deadly shadows was the keepers who hunted you down. Although they were easy, I really liked having to stay sharp no matter where I was going. Plus it gives the game a level of intrigue that just going about your missions just doesn't have.

the one true thief
29th Jan 2006, 01:51
its not that i just want to do mindless killing(i have more than enough of those games)...what i mean is you are a specific assasin, you must kill your target and no one must notice...therefore you have to evade gurads and not kill or knock them out, evade servants...you can only win if you hit solely your target . of course on the side you can steal every thing you come upon as to get new equipment (better assasin weapons, poisons, and the likes)..but w/e
Try playing the Hitman Games if you want that type of gameplay. (Not saying the games are bad, In fact, they're some of my favourite games out)

Olorin
29th Jan 2006, 05:24
Try playing the Hitman Games if you want that type of gameplay. (Not saying the games are bad, In fact, they're some of my favourite games out)

the problem for that game for me is that it has guns....i hate guns they are cheap...thats why i loved theif it was stealth but with swords and bows :D im a sword and bow freak :p if you see what i mean, thanks for the sugestions tho

dogsolitude_uk
29th Jan 2006, 10:15
I was reading about Oblivion, the new Elder Scrolls game. Apparently they're really sorting out the Stealth aspects this time round, and you can join the Dark Brotherhood (a bunch of guys that run around stealthily in Bondage gear and assassinate people).

I don't know what sort of 1337 Ninja PC you'd need to run it though... :confused: but it should be worth a look. Patrick Stewart is doing some of the voices too :cool:

Olorin
29th Jan 2006, 16:24
I was reading about Oblivion, the new Elder Scrolls game. Apparently they're really sorting out the Stealth aspects this time round, and you can join the Dark Brotherhood (a bunch of guys that run around stealthily in Bondage gear and assassinate people).

I don't know what sort of 1337 Ninja PC you'd need to run it though... :confused: but it should be worth a look. Patrick Stewart is doing some of the voices too :cool:

that game looks like its gonna rock...and they lowered the graphics recently so my PC may be able to run it :D ...i wonder how good the stelth in it will be, in morrowind it sucked

O.Z
30th Jan 2006, 12:31
At the begining Garret was fun but now he is to old to stand at this new request about a killing thief. Somobody before mentioned that there are other games with assasins but tell me budy were have you seen a real medieval first person shooter for PC. I don't say that stealing isn't fun but to be honest most of the missions of thief 3 can't be complited without killing or stuning everyone.
I don't like the idea of sending the thief in Asia rather that showing the real nature of mediaval in Europe. There so much to be seen... Forget about that ninja stuff it's for martial arts goonies. Here I'm talking about a deadly shadow born from iron and stone. The hooded man... The one that has no ideals rather than survival but iside is an important part of the worlds puzzle. Ninja, samurai are fun to but for me they are to honest to their tribes to understand the ways of the thief. The new one more deadly, more fast pace...

Olorin
30th Jan 2006, 15:33
actually there is one first person medival shooter i know of its called Mount&Blade and it rocks www.taleworlds.com ...it stll in beta form so no storyline yet, but so far i love it. and its only gonna cost 12 bucks :eek: !!

an di see your point about theif not belonging in asia, but the medieval europe theif has been sucked dryin my opinion, what else new could they really implement in a new one that would be inovative and fun...but thats just my opinion

O.Z
31st Jan 2006, 08:46
Boys you must understand the meaning of medieval, dark, creep, and lovely in a nightmare kind of stuff, and in the other side asia so bright so strongly shining is just like sun beam for vampires. And thief is a night person do not forget that. Also there can be some changing in telling about medieval era in Europe. They can introduce a modern inquisition, search about a single holy item, knights that die invane for that item, not omly a kind of rescue the world but a need to survive at all costs in a world about to change, between revolutions and all. In the other hand the Asian medieval is so boring so stand still in an looong era till some crazy portugise decided to and their sea of tranquility. Stick to dark old Europe it has much more to tell... About the new boy the pupil of Garret I mean, he will be more sinister than his master. I realise him as a lonely man of type do it or kill the others trying to stop you.
And Mount & Sword looks nice on the demo but is not about a medieval sniper, its about the general vision about medieval battles.

Peter_Smith
31st Jan 2006, 08:54
At the begining Garret was fun but now he is to old to stand at this new request about a killing thief. Somobody before mentioned that there are other games with assasins but tell me budy were have you seen a real medieval first person shooter for PC. I don't say that stealing isn't fun but to be honest most of the missions of thief 3 can't be complited without killing or stuning everyone.It is time for a reality check. TDS as well as the previous games can be completed with little or no damage. Stealth is the whole idea behind the game. If you don't like Thief and can't play it well, then your suggestions for Thief 4 are not quite on target. To be taken seriously, any game in the Thief series needs to be consistent with the spirit of the genre: first person sneaker. But then, since no Thief 4 is being planned, this is all kind of irrelevant anyway.

Olorin
1st Feb 2006, 01:50
Boys you must understand the meaning of medieval, dark, creep, and lovely in a nightmare kind of stuff, and in the other side asia so bright so strongly shining is just like sun beam for vampires. And thief is a night person do not forget that. Also there can be some changing in telling about medieval era in Europe. They can introduce a modern inquisition, search about a single holy item, knights that die invane for that item, not omly a kind of rescue the world but a need to survive at all costs in a world about to change, between revolutions and all. In the other hand the Asian medieval is so boring so stand still in an looong era till some crazy portugise decided to and their sea of tranquility. Stick to dark old Europe it has much more to tell... About the new boy the pupil of Garret I mean, he will be more sinister than his master. I realise him as a lonely man of type do it or kill the others trying to stop you.
And Mount & Sword looks nice on the demo but is not about a medieval sniper, its about the general vision about medieval battles.

as i said i understand the points about taking in asia..when i thought about it it just dont fit...

about M&B..well if you get the ful version you can get high lvl enough to become a sniper (one of my Chars can shoot down anyone with 2 arows max :D ) but yeah it is nowhere near thief...tho those two games are the only medival FPS i know of (if you are willign to call thief an FPS :rolleyes: )

Dark Moon
1st Feb 2006, 11:09
Hello guys!
My English is not well, so sorry. First, I will ask one question: "Кто нибудь знает русский?".

Let speak about Thief IV.
As for me, one of the greatest mistake in Thief III is a very small levels, stupid AI, bad "realistic" system, problems with sound, not interesting scenario and so on...

So I want see Thief IV.
Our hero (Garrett), must look like a Hero (in Thef III he looks like a man Without Some Place to Live). We will dress him into black coat, and give him mask onto face.
He will fight with Longbow, Longsword, Dagger... and some hand-to-hand abilities (like in Oni and FEAR). He could drop dagger into his enemies, fight with sword in one hand and dagger in other.
City must be City, in Thief 3 we see only small town.....

dogsolitude_uk
1st Feb 2006, 21:08
I just thought I'd clarify about 'Asia'... It has the same amount of darkness as Europe, I can assure you of that.

Hell, anyone who's seen The Ring would agree.

However, mediaeval Europe didn't have electric lighting or zombies, neither did it, if I recall, have abandoned orphanage/asylums patrolled by tortured half-dead creatures.

My angle on putting an eastern twist on the Thief game would have done similar things to Eastern imagery as Thief did to Mediaeval Europe: for example looting ancestral shrines, the whole Ninja thing - it doesn't have to be an accurate depiction of life in feudal Japan any more than Thief is an accurate depiction of Feudal England, so your (O.Z and Olorin) argument against my idea-for-a-game-that-will-never-be-made sort of misses the point.

I just used that as an example of something that I might like so see, or perhaps as an idea for something new.

I really think we should let this Thief 4 thing go. They were great games and we all have our ideas of how they could have been made better.

Some people liked the zombies, some liked the robots, some didn't care. Some played DS in third person, some purely in first. Some want assassinations, some want deathless thieving... It really makes no odds as there's no indication that Thief 4 will ever appear.

Small levels, a lack of rope arrows and swimming and loot glint peed everyone off - there's megabytes of text on the web about those subjects, I can assure you!

We've all got our own ideas of what a Thief game *should* be like, and dev teams do their best to keep everyone happy.

Thing is though, we just have to let it all go at some point... :thumbsup:

Olorin
1st Feb 2006, 22:25
I just thought I'd clarify about 'Asia'... It has the same amount of darkness as Europe, I can assure you of that.

Hell, anyone who's seen The Ring would agree.

However, mediaeval Europe didn't have electric lighting or zombies, neither did it, if I recall, have abandoned orphanage/asylums patrolled by tortured half-dead creatures.

My angle on putting an eastern twist on the Thief game would have done similar things to Eastern imagery as Thief did to Mediaeval Europe: for example looting ancestral shrines, the whole Ninja thing - it doesn't have to be an accurate depiction of life in feudal Japan any more than Thief is an accurate depiction of Feudal England, so your (O.Z and Olorin) argument against my idea-for-a-game-that-will-never-be-made sort of misses the point.

I just used that as an example of something that I might like so see, or perhaps as an idea for something new.

I really think we should let this Thief 4 thing go. They were great games and we all have our ideas of how they could have been made better.

Some people liked the zombies, some liked the robots, some didn't care. Some played DS in third person, some purely in first. Some want assassinations, some want deathless thieving... It really makes no odds as there's no indication that Thief 4 will ever appear.
:thumbsup:

i never argued against your idea :confused: i just said i understodd the others pts of views

dogsolitude_uk
2nd Feb 2006, 19:56
No worries.

Trust me, as a member of the UK Gothic society for a number of years (until they stopped publishing 'Udolpho') and someone who's interests are rather mediaeval to say the least (musically Dead Can Dance, Sopor Aeturnus and classical recordings based on various surviving texts - I even managed to track down a recording of the actual Carmina Burana by the Clemensic Consort, which the famous Carl Orff music was based on) I can say I fully support the idea of a dark mediaeval game :D

I can assure you though that in Mediaeval times in Europe they still had colourful clothing, summers' afternoons, gold jewellery, pansies, honey and kittens - it wasn't all plague, damnation and torture (though the pansies and kittens would probably make a very dull game indeed). The term Dark Ages is therefore a bit of a misnomer - it's Dark in the sense of the fact that we don't know a hell of a lot about large bits of it. They were probably a bit smelly though.

I loved the idea of remixing mediaval Japanese imagery in the same way Thief did with European imagery, and got the impression that you'd sort of misunderstood where I was coming from, and so tried to explain a bit better.

Like I say, no worries. It's sort of a moot point anyway!

The imagery in Thief is gorgeous - there's no getting away from that - and it's a real shame we don't have more 'dark' games, however I do still believe that the Thief series has run it's course.

the one true thief
7th Feb 2006, 19:25
I was reading about Oblivion, the new Elder Scrolls game. Apparently they're really sorting out the Stealth aspects this time round, and you can join the Dark Brotherhood (a bunch of guys that run around stealthily in Bondage gear and assassinate people).

I don't know what sort of 1337 Ninja PC you'd need to run it though... :confused: but it should be worth a look. Patrick Stewart is doing some of the voices too :cool:
Just to let you know, The stealth aspects of the game will be good, hopefully for a fact, as the person who made the main stealth aspects in the thief series has been working on the stealth in Oblivion. :thumbsup:

CLICK HERE FOR MORE INFO (http://www.theelderscrolls.com/codex/team_teamprof_emil.htm)

dogsolitude_uk
7th Feb 2006, 20:00
Yeah, that's what I heard too.. And Patrick 'Picard' Stewart will be doing some voiceovers as well...

Ta for the link!

Better save for a new gfx card then. :D

Actually, prolly best just get a new PC. I've only got an AGP mobo, dagnabbit...

O.Z
10th Feb 2006, 10:47
Well it's seems you boys have a knack for Asia and I surely agree that is a great place for a ninja style game(Ninja Ryekendn will do enough for that together with Prince of Persia)but Garret is not a ninja and he surely will never train a ninja by himself. Garret is a thief, not a hero, is some mother****er son of ***** steeler, rober and even if you don't like it cold blooded assasin, remeber precise killing requires lot's of stealth.(Try to argue with fanatics that want to shoot you at sight if you like) Lowlifes like Garret have only one purpuese, gold, more and more of it will never satisfy them. Garret is not a hero, he is just a thief that in the big turn of the events where he was invold made the right choise at the last moment.(Remeber Garret never tried to save the world he was forced to)
Second about Europe, in all my years of studying medieval history I don't remeber any particular place with the fancy-pancy stuff somebody mention before. In the high courts the gothic culture and that sense of cold majesty made his way, when in the streets common people was dying for a loaf of bread.(Try not to mix gothic with baroc if you please) Yes my friends Medieval was all about violence, tortures, inquisition, palgue, and all the worst fear of humanity taking life. There are historical reports about lebrouses going around like zombies, alchimists trying to simulate life,long trials of inquisition over presumed witches and mages, cults practising satanism,phenomenons of exorcism, memerism etc. Even the inventions that came from orient were used for destruction, remember gun powder that the chinese people used for their colorful crackers and the beastly cannons of Europe. Meanwhile the chinese wall was up and that civilisation behind that remaind isolatet from the rest of the world, and about Japan existed no information(beside Manga cartoons)
As about a new stealth game I don't belive that'll do. No reason to cease the circle of thief as it goes on it's legacy. 3 it's just a number not an end. Beside any new stealth game will take time to develop the popularity of Thief(the first stealth game ever)

dogsolitude_uk
11th Feb 2006, 12:28
Couple of points:

A lot of the expert levels in T1 and T2 required completion with no kills...

"Second about Europe, in all my years of studying medieval history I don't remeber any particular place with the fancy-pancy stuff somebody mention before."

I take it you're referring to colourful clothing, summers' afternoons, gold jewellery, pansies, honey and kittens.

I'm not sure what Mediaeval History sources you've been studying, but the works of Chaucer, the texts of the Carmina Burana and a large number of other sources, such as the Notre Dame codices would beg to differ.

Kittens and honey weren't suddenly invented in the Renaissance!

I also understand that sunlight would have existed back then too, and Summer as well (for a simple piece of evidence of that, look at the lyrics of 'Sumer is icumen in').

I'd suggest you widen your Mediaeval 'studies' a bit beyond cherry-picking the gory bits, and put down your copies of 'Horrible Histories' in favour of more balanced, academic work.

Yes, there was torture and plague, but it wasn't the be-all and end all. If you jumped into a time machine and went back there you'd probably be surprised at how dull it was compared to what you've written.

I've never knowingly confused Gothic (early, middle or late periods) with Baroque (not 'baroc').

You may also notice that Thief combines elements of Mediaeval imagery with Victorian imagery and Steampunk too, so whereas you assert that Mediaeval times were all death and torture (which I contend is a factually inaccurate, romanticised and one-sided view) this is irrelevant since Thief is not supposed to be, nor has ever pretended to be, an accurate portrayal of real life.

Trading between Europe and Japan began in the 16th Century when the Portuguese, Dutch and English finally managed to navigate their way round there. In any case, since Thief is not supposed to reflect real life, this is irrelevant insofar as setting a Thief like game in a similarly remixed Japan is concerned.

in any case, this is a non-issue since I very much doubt that anyone at Eidos has read the post and thought: "I know, we'll do exactly what Dogsolitude has suggested..."

Japan's isolationist period you refer to happened as a result of the shogun Tokugawa kicking the Catholics out, although he maintained contracts with Dutch traders, no-one was allowed in or out of Japan on pain of death.

SWR_DMaster
12th Feb 2006, 10:53
First off, Thief is what it is...
You can't complain about it's foundation and have it changed.
It is based in a magical 'medieval' land.
Currently medieval is under debate...

And yes, the story line is gripping but so is the heart stopping action
hiding in a little two foot shadow with a guard (or zombi) three feet in front
of you, just waiting for you to miss a step...

I was going to look into building a level for thief 2, before I got thief 3...
For thoes that don't need a story line this would be a great...Level/Mod...

But here is my idea:
It is the big open city, like what everybody agrees on.
You can go any where at any time, the desired freedom.
You can do what you want but there are consequences. (see examples)
The ai is more interactive with changes in the envronment. (see examples)
The 'level' never ends...unless you pull a switch in your appartment...
Or have the lever just give you your current stats...
Have it time based, day and night...but more like the movie 'dark city'...
Just always night but have shift changes...

Examples:
You can kill someone on the street...a guard finds it...
after a while, the guard gets gets the mortician to get the body and
take it to the cemetary...

If you break into a house and steal something, the person locks up
thier valuables...buys locks for thier 'entry ways'...gets a security device...

Guards don't know who you are at first, but the more they encouter
you doing something 'wrong' the more guards recognize who you are...

If you disrupt certain graves then the bodies that have piled up in
the cemetary will rise as the undead,
and posibly plaque the city if they aren't defeated...

People don't just walk around all the time, they get up...go to work...
come home...and sleep...(repeat...repeat...repeat)
And they really don't have to do real work, just go to a certain building.

Don't have money just apear and disapear from day to day but have a set
amount that simply changes hands...Including your own rent...

When someone dies, have a child created...after time have it become an
adult...move out into a vacant room...
The child could live with one or two 'people' or could live on it's own as a thief...

Yes, it is a lot of adaptive scripting...but it would be nice...
And seeing as how the paths change throughout the level
so could the initial paths be random...Leading to great replayability...
And it would be nice to have a random level gen but only if it could produce
high quality realistic maps...

I believe thats it...It has been a while since I layed everything out like this...

Haremscarem
12th Feb 2006, 17:03
I think a good idea for story would combine thief 1 & thief 2 were garret has to deal with the hammerites and the mechanists with an immense story like maybe dealing with his past of why he is the way he is starting with parents and finding information out about them and what happened to them and maybe the trickster had something to do with it and so you would have seek him out and along the way you would gather other information about what happened through puzzels to solve that the hammerites & the mechanists have in there possession so you would have to sneak through hammerite and mechanists buildings dealing with guards, burricks, zombies and the mechanists driods plus. And whatever pieces of the puzzle you find on the way is how the story woud go so you have different endings.
The gameplay would still be played the same as thief 1 and 2 were you still be thiefing from buildings along the way outside the main story.
I would also like to beable bribe guards and peasants because people are generally greedy to a certain extent to were it could go either way when approaching them to bribe them to it bring a suspense to the gameplay.

Thief has the best storyline I have ever played and I could imagine alot more stories to be told form this story and so many different characters could be created along the way like James Bond 007 movies.

O.Z
13th Feb 2006, 12:37
I agree that thief is thief... But as for the accademic report, relax dude don't take so seriosly, it's a game for God's sake.
I was talking about facts, reports like historical chronicles, the acts of inquisition, the interminable wars between feuds, written in blood and steel not the medieval as seen by vassals of kings, priests or poets:
"works of Chaucer, the texts of the Carmina Burana and a large number of other sources, such as the Notre Dame codices would beg to differ"
I was talking about civil wars, about the crussades and ottoman occupation, about the fact that living in that era meant to die almost at your forty(these were the old ones)
As for me I personally have a great respect for orient, but don't want to see Garret as Tom Cruise in the "Last samurai" (that movie sucks). Garret belong to Europe historical, or magical that it is.

Haremscarem
13th Feb 2006, 17:25
I was speaking in general of more games could be created with using his storyline and atmosphere like hitman which I have played which doesn't compare to thief series but they have more games out. With using the same main character whatever his name is. I'm not talking making movies I just used James bond as an example of how many movies and games have been created using James Bond with using different stories and plots which makes him a great character, like Thief and Garret.
The thief fm shows theres still a market for the game it just bad management and the market of the time that LG studios and ION storm went out business after the release of thief 2 , thief 3. I'm just saying there is a great story here were more stories could be told using Garret the hammerites, pagans, mechanists and the list goes on as long as it is done right which anybody should beable to see.

O.Z
14th Feb 2006, 07:14
Yeeep that's precisely the point, there are so many stories to tell about the thief as it is. So many modifications to be made without ruinning the atmosphere and the mystery around him. At least they could think about making this game a real thiefing activity management with a lot more interaction.:cool:

dogsolitude_uk
18th Feb 2006, 13:21
Hi O.Z: my response was intended to illustrate that there's more to the Mediaeval bit of history than blood and guts. That's all really. I didn't mean it to come across as a hissy fit on my part, although looking back on it my tone was a bit sharp and pedantic.

I also remarked that Thief was not intended to be historically accurate, any more so than a Tom Cruise film, and therefore your comments about an Oriental remix of Thief demonstrated a sort of inconsistent logic: you rejected the idea on the basis that it could not have happened because no-one could get in or out of Japan, in the real world, in Mediaeval times!

"Relax dude": one of the most effective ways of making someone's argument or point of view seem superfluous/irrelevent is to make out that the person holding said point of view is somehow aggravated. It means that you don't have to bother actually addressing the points made. I actually did this last night down the pub. Telling someone not to get stressed works like a charm.

"I was talking about facts, reports like historical chronicles": so was I. I didn't invent Chaucer, though sometimes I wish I had. I could have made a lot of money from licensing the character to the makers of the Heath Ledger film 'A Knight's Tale' and charging royalties. As for the Carmina Burana thing, I'd've made a shedload from the Old Spice adverts alone (even though they used Carl Orff's 'O Fortuna' rather than the original music).

"I was talking about civil wars, about the crussades and ottoman occupation, about the fact that living in that era meant to die almost at your forty(these were the old ones)": I was making the point that there was more to the dark ages than this - no more, no less. Though I have to admit I wouldn't necessarily recommend making a game out of the bits I mentioned. A first-person peasant simulator would be massively dull: "Level 4 - corn grinding"

Yep, it is just a game, and I haven't lost sight of that fact. I like the levels that scare the absolute living crap out of me. I also liked Rope Arrows and Ghosting. In fact, I think I may just nip round Simon's place, pilfer my copy of Thief back and go for a wander round the haunted cathedral thingy and the Bonerhoard.

O.Z
20th Feb 2006, 07:52
Hi dog, man you really are persistend in your way of arguing. I have to admit you got a point but I have never rejected my idea. A thief game with Garret in orient is as bad as "The last samurai" that's my point of view. Sure I have some facts to prove it but you don't have to take them so seriously. What I'm trying to explain here is that to creat a story, a myth or legend there have to be some historical facts, this for the simple reason that an historical contex makes things more believable. Otherwise we will have to support a matrix combat style in the war of Troy(Brad Pit's Achilles sucks) or an King Arthur with a Xena type-queen Guinevre(yeah that movie is to be erased).

I'm pleased to know that you are an intellectual dude, hope your pals appreciate that even that chap in the pub. I never accused anybody of saying false things but even if you did that doesn't bother me. As I see it in this forum they are trying to accumulate ideas about a new thief and that's all, no need to take things personally.
The real thing about the forums is that there you can find some crazy ideas and communicate with your fellow players.

dogsolitude_uk
20th Feb 2006, 19:19
*LMFAO* :D 'Persistent', yeah, I've been called worse I can assure you!

We'll just have to agree to differ on this one I think matey. Someone with greater modding skills that I will prolly make a fan mission, or maybe the idea will eventually evaporate in the aether... I dunno really... There are lots of things in life that I'd like which will probably never materialise. A film based on Nemesis the Warlock, Elite 4, another Dune game... That's life really...

I see where you're coming from about having bits of historical accuracy to flesh out a game, and give it context. I'm happy with Thief combining mediaeval stuff and steampunk, and also things like invisibility potions, that's cool. Someone on another forum mentioned about a Gravity Gun, which I thought stretched the idea too far (I wanted a monkey in a fez called Topov that would nick things for you but probably make a terrible racket - unsurprisingly nobody really went for that). You may have noticed that there's a fair whack of disagreement in the Thief fan community even about staple things like Zombies and security cameras, so you're right, we've all got our own ideas about what's likely to work and what isn't.

I guess the art of a good games designer is to strike a balance between fact and fiction, hopefully without giving us Arthur fighting Mordred matrix stylee. Or 'Thief of the Future', complete with lightsabres and space-monkeys. :D

O.Z
21st Feb 2006, 07:16
That's it dog, that's it. Is all about balance and cool ideas. Well buddy it's really fun talking about things we like or not in games,and as for me sharing my ideas with other fellow players it's something good.

Well let's get back to the main topic here what I really like to have in thief 4 is .... Well now is your turn!

maddermadcat
22nd Apr 2006, 22:03
Ideas for the next Thief? Well, if there will be, as I've said before, do what Thief 2X did. A brand new hero, in the same world. Garrett's story, in my opinion, is now complete.
Silent_Hitman47, just a question. Are you a Rammstein fan as well?
And Lebensborn, your post made me quite literally scream. The Splinter Cell engine? Ugh, the insolence! Not that I hate Splinter Cell... That was just a stupid assumption to make, no offense.
Haremscarem... First of all, learn to use more periods.
Secondly, exploring Garrett's past completely will ruin his character. All that will happen is Garrett becoming boring and dull as a character. Part of what makes him such a great character is how mysterious his past is.

flutterby
24th Apr 2006, 21:18
I definitely like the idea of having all houses open for theft but what I think is great are the funny sounds and comments the guards make. There sure could be more of that in an eventual thief 4. I guess this is what made thief 3 stand out for me as a game - not only is it scary, it's funny too. I mean the sound of those guards choking on that moss arrow, that was hilarious! Add more funnies!

maddermadcat
26th Apr 2006, 21:12
"trake place in feudal asia instead of europe"
It doesn't take place in any particular time period. This is Fantasy! And I think that it taking place in feudal Asia would make the game too anime-ish, which would ruin it completely. The setting is perfect, don't change it!

KribblickRat
1st May 2006, 11:23
Ideas for the next Thief? Well, if there will be, as I've said before, do what Thief 2X did. A brand new hero, in the same world. Garrett's story, in my opinion, is now complete.
Silent_Hitman47, just a question. Are you a Rammstein fan as well?
And Lebensborn, your post made me quite literally scream. The Splinter Cell engine? Ugh, the insolence! Not that I hate Splinter Cell... That was just a stupid assumption to make, no offense.
Haremscarem... First of all, learn to use more periods.
Secondly, exploring Garrett's past completely will ruin his character. All that will happen is Garrett becoming boring and dull as a character. Part of what makes him such a great character is how mysterious his past is.

I agree. If we went back to Garrett's root's it would completely mess up his character, he wouldn't be the sneaky, myterious thief we all know. Or don't know.

Maybe a new thief, with a different story line but in the same era as the other thief games.

pedjalaya
27th Sep 2007, 11:14
I like the idea about the second character, but Garrett is the spark of thief. How about making it something like this. Choosing what character you will play for the upcoming mission. Of course, it would be more demanding if some missions would be character restricted.

Example: Garrett could be a master sneak, master lockpick with a mechanical eye, but the kid could be a smart-ass making his/her own mechanical weapons such as wrist switchblade (or whatever you may call it), composite bow, automatic sling/crossbow on a bracer or something, and a whole lot of little gadgets. Also the apperentice could be smaller, easier to hide and pass through narrow passages.
Playing both characters in one mission could be interesting also, but I'm skeptic about how would it turn out to be.

And skip Asia. The whole beauty of thief is that it is in pro-european environment.
About the alchemy that somebody mentioned, it is a great idea, but since the magic is in the Thief series since day one, let's stick to it.
Oh and bounty on your head and bountyhunters are a great idea.

That's about it.

Captain Cyrus
23rd Oct 2007, 19:04
I agree with the posts out here as far as it's concerned i like the ideas of

-Stick with medieval era little of the beginings to a mechanical era but stick mostly with the medieval

-the idea of a second character in my opinion is little Meh don't like the idea so much but ok

-BIGGER City would be nice shoot the oblivion thing would be great to travel city to city maybe not even that 2 citys and a bit of land between em would work and visit caves inhabbited by pagans,undead,kurshok and rat people,maybe even the living trees yeah not to realistic remember it's fantasy.

-Under Ground tunnels in citys would be kewl going on rooftops would be nice and sneaking through Windows on roofs and leaping short distances over buildings would be awsome.

- more crypts graveyards cradles haunted houses would be great ghosts,

- like the little girl whose spirit was trapped make something more like that

- More realism make so you can lay down on belly to move can't fight like that but would be great for hiding for under beds or to get under something like a collapsed cave that needs investigating. water needs a more realismlike a sewer tunnel like in the first 2 games hidden wells that would be the home or secret enterance to something

- Secret places/door/enterances,items, ect, need i say more,

- no highlighting of objects from distance like in thief 3 put a kiddy twist to it it's a M game be MATURE.

-no third in my opinion no need for it yeah i guess it's ok cause you can see yourself do something maybe add a cutscene sort of idea you backstab someone it goes in to a short animated cutscene of you doing it.

- Love your guys ideas keep em up check this site daily keep it up

Captain Cyrus
23rd Oct 2007, 19:09
I agree. If we went back to Garrett's root's it would completely mess up his character, he wouldn't be the sneaky, myterious thief we all know. Or don't know.

Maybe a new thief, with a different story line but in the same era as the other thief games.

OoooooOOOoo i Like that idea Garrett's life on here is somewhat complete make one that would have a twist to his story line like T2X that would be great too Nice Idea maybe even one that keeps going on with thief storyline just tells whats happened to him as it goes along

masterthief92
5th Nov 2007, 02:41
this all sounds great, you know the bigger cities, being able to crawl under beds, going on top of roof tops, etc. but what if you gave Garrett a challange. what if you put more thievs in thief four.like to the point where you can walk around in the city and you can literally see other thievs walking around stealing, mugging , break and entering, and murdering. and also they can try to rob garrett, for example they will come up from behind and say gimmie your loot. or when your doing a mission other thieves try to steal valuables as well and it would be your job to assasinate them. but them coming in and trying to steal the goods before you do would rarely happen unless you change it on he mission briefing. i think that would be really cool.also what if you guys could make it possible for garrett to exit the city and go into a forest, which leads to other citys, and castles with loads of loot. also to where garrett can rob trading carts passing through different paths in the forest heading for other cities. and if you wander in the forest too long then you can be a victem of different creatures or be assasinated by assasins. as far as penaltys for getting captured for doing thievie things, would be like sent to prison or getting kicked out of the city. ways you can re enter the city is by sneaking in by different ways, like climbing the city wall, stealing the key attached to the gaurd belt, or by hitching a ride in a trading cart thats going into that city. the way you would know which way the cart is going would be determined by the city name floating above the cart/ wagon. as far as the wanted posters of garrett, he can rip them off the wall as soon as he gets back into town. i hope you like these ideas fellow thieves and eidos. i have more ideas and ill be sure to post them up later. as for the name if the idea of more than one thief, it should be called thief4 dire foes, or maybe just thief 4.

masterthief92
5th Nov 2007, 03:10
First off, Thief is what it is...
You can't complain about it's foundation and have it changed.
It is based in a magical 'medieval' land.
Currently medieval is under debate...

And yes, the story line is gripping but so is the heart stopping action
hiding in a little two foot shadow with a guard (or zombi) three feet in front
of you, just waiting for you to miss a step...

I was going to look into building a level for thief 2, before I got thief 3...
For thoes that don't need a story line this would be a great...Level/Mod...

But here is my idea:
It is the big open city, like what everybody agrees on.
You can go any where at any time, the desired freedom.
You can do what you want but there are consequences. (see examples)
The ai is more interactive with changes in the envronment. (see examples)
The 'level' never ends...unless you pull a switch in your appartment...
Or have the lever just give you your current stats...
Have it time based, day and night...but more like the movie 'dark city'...
Just always night but have shift changes...

Examples:
You can kill someone on the street...a guard finds it...
after a while, the guard gets gets the mortician to get the body and
take it to the cemetary...

If you break into a house and steal something, the person locks up
thier valuables...buys locks for thier 'entry ways'...gets a security device...

Guards don't know who you are at first, but the more they encouter
you doing something 'wrong' the more guards recognize who you are...

If you disrupt certain graves then the bodies that have piled up in
the cemetary will rise as the undead,
and posibly plaque the city if they aren't defeated...

People don't just walk around all the time, they get up...go to work...
come home...and sleep...(repeat...repeat...repeat)
And they really don't have to do real work, just go to a certain building.

Don't have money just apear and disapear from day to day but have a set
amount that simply changes hands...Including your own rent...

When someone dies, have a child created...after time have it become an
adult...move out into a vacant room...
The child could live with one or two 'people' or could live on it's own as a thief...

Yes, it is a lot of adaptive scripting...but it would be nice...
And seeing as how the paths change throughout the level
so could the initial paths be random...Leading to great replayability...
And it would be nice to have a random level gen but only if it could produce
high quality realistic maps...

I believe thats it...It has been a while since I layed everything out like this...



dude that would be awesome about the kid thing. but you know what would also be cool. you can find a kid who has lived by himself, and befriend him. then you could show him the ways of a thief. then have him go on missions with you, have him live with you.etc. then you could watch him grow up and then you could send him out to do mission to polish his skills. then you could kick him out of your house, he could move out, or he can stay at your apartment. it would be up to you.and if he or she does leave then there wiuld be another thief in the city. but this would be an optional thing. so basically you train them and you literally watch them grow up.

Ingo_RO
26th Jun 2008, 10:50
Hello, i am new here, on this forum. I just want to tell my opinion about how must be Thief4, if this game will be released (i hope very much).
If the new game will have all the elements from Thief II, i think will be excellent.
I love the mystery athmosphere from ThiefII, i think is very good realised, including the audio background.
Also, big levels which really make you feel like you are exploring a big medieval city, with rooftops access,all kind of arrows from ThiefII, mechanist stuffs like that remote camera faces, that robots...Realist opponents AI...And if is possible why not, a nonlinear game action with diffrent endings?

hollylie
26th Jun 2008, 12:13
Garret is a thief, not a hero,
So O.Z I agree with you in this point, but thief should be more flexible I mean sometimes Garrett lools like a big elephant, such kind of a clumsy-slow drunkard. He should be more aphletic, or I may say he must be like a shadow. I can play this game without killing somebody at all. e.g. I didn't kill anybody by mission in hospital (T3), all zombies were alive=) lol. I don't remember the name of the mission.
I expect a little bit more magic for Garrett, for instance he will be able to look through the walls=) for the nearest one of course.:lmao:

kin
21st Jul 2008, 14:22
Hmm let me think what eidos need to do to make thief 4 good (or better than TDS at least).
In a few words: return to the roots.

The long version:

About Garrett
1. Thief would not be thief without Garrett (and I mean Stephen Russell voice actor). Garrett revealed his personality trough S. Russell voice so a new voice it’s going to be “indigestible” for players knowing Garrett.
2. Garrett has an enigmatic personality and as a thief he stays unseen most of the time. Cut scenes in game or out of the game should not reveal completely Garrett’s character. This adds to the atmosphere and lets the player imagine how he looks. A third person view also ruins Garretts low profile and reveals to the player what he/she should imagine. First person view simulates a persons view and forces the player to be absorbed in the games atmosphere third person view simulates nothing.
3. Garret is cynical, arrogant, cares about himself only, he is self isolated and a loner.
He also has a sense of humor especially on his monologue. This should stay as it is
About gameplay
1. Gameplay should be based on (first person) stealth and exploration mostly (two main factors for a long quality gameplay). Missing things in TDS like swimable water areas, rope arrows, and vast areas without loading zones only shrink exploration areas so it is a big no.
2. The way story evolves trough readables and conversations should stay unchanged.
3. Garrett is a thief not a murderer so the ultimate objective should be “do everything without anyone notices you”.
Game longevity.
1. A correct choice or creation of game engine. Game engine should be solid and capable of doing all the previous thief game engines did and even more. I can’t imagine an engine that will limit the player from swimming or forcing him to pass trough loading zones.
2. Game should ship with an editor and detailed info on how to use it
3. Thief has a ten-year history of fan mission making thanks to the editor shipped with the games and the community supporting it. Shipping thief 4 with an editor for making future fan missions would guarantee new buying audience for a long time.
4. And the last. Make a good continuing story for thief 4, a story that will magnetize the player (the recipe hides in thief 1 & 2 find it).

I probably missed a lot of things but tried to imagine how the core of the game should be

Freddo
26th Jul 2008, 13:55
I believe the major mistake developers made with TDS is they restrained the freedom in the game with 3 major ways compared to the older games.

1. Creating loading zones(less space for exploration)
2. No swimable water (less space for exploration)
3. No rope arrows (again less less ways for exploration).

This is it. If this was fixed for Thief 4, it would be a very nice improvement.

TheJoker
26th Jul 2008, 22:42
2. Garrett has an enigmatic personality and as a thief he stays unseen most of the time. Cut scenes in game or out of the game should not reveal completely Garrett’s character. This adds to the atmosphere and lets the player imagine how he looks. A third person view also ruins Garretts low profile and reveals to the player what he/she should imagine. First person view simulates a persons view and forces the player to be absorbed in the games atmosphere third person view simulates nothing.


Just what I've thought about. Good point

Dranel
27th Jul 2008, 13:49
Look no further and get playing "Oblivion" that has all the Forests, Hills, Rivers, Seas, Mountains, Water falls, Dungeons, Caves, Yes! I know its not Thief But you can be a Thief as your Character, and you have to break into houses and Mansions to do some of the Quests, But there is nothing to stop you from breaking into every house in every town or village. And the Oblivion World is Massive.......there are at least 2 add-ons as well, Tribunal, Blood Moon and loads of Fan missions and Mods.
Dranel :rasp:


I like the ideas about roof top accessability and all buildings should be open, they are great ideas. I also like the idea of being able to speak through your mic great idea, i would love to be able to call one of the NPC's a taffer and watch it get annoyed. Obviously there would be limits to this, i mean u wouldn't be able to have a conversation with an A.I. but you could maybe say 1 liners and stuff relating to mission goals. Also you could make noises to distract gaurds a bit like the knocking ability in metal gear solid. You could mug people by saying to them "GIVE ME YOUR MONEY! TAFFER", lol and also you know when your in a building you shouldn't be in and you get spotted by a servent you could say to them "don't move or i'll kill you" and depending on how loud you say it a gaurd in another room might hear you and come rushing in, if not you then walk up to the servent and black jack him/her or stab them up and throw them out of a window lol

Something i would like to see would be a random map generator so when the game is done you can generate a random city and go exploring. You could change the size of the map depending on your comp spec and have a few options, stuff like Poshness/Poorness: this would controll the the quality of the buildings and how much loot is in them

Hill% how hilly the place is
forest% how many trees there are about
River% how many rivers there are
Gaurd% how secure the place is
Hammer% overall percentage of hammers
mechanist% overall percentage of mechs
pagan% overall percentage of pagans

and the list goes on please add more if you think of any
Something like this would give the game a huge life span and endless hours of play

mattmanr
2nd Aug 2008, 19:11
well the answer to taking away the rope arrow was the wall climbing gloves, but i do agree that the rope arrow seemed to take you to more interesting places

kin
5th Aug 2008, 15:07
A good idea also would be if eidos recruit same people that worked in Thief: Deadly Shadows, because many of them working on the third part of the series also worked on previous games thief 1 and 2. Or even older members that are still in action and have contributed in thief 1 and thief 2 making. Although i am not sure if this is possible.
Remember playing "Dark messiah might and magic" and noticed that the game looks alot like thief in many parts of the gameplay. The reason that i played it was because someone told me that most of the crew that worked in thief series made that game too.

Thomas08
27th Aug 2008, 19:33
I think it would be better just to keep Garret as the MAIN and only playable character..

I have played all the games, loved them!

But not having garret as the only playerable charater it just wouldnt be the same.. and would most probably put me off..

Please try to keep it in the same timezone..
It has been great using water arrows etc etc. to put out torches..

PLEASE keep garret as the ONLY playerable character..

As i said.. if u dont.. it just wont feel the same..
It is a story about a master theif afterall

Garret is the mastertheif.. keep it about him :P ( as if i aint made it clear enuf already.

Garret the mastertheif, rarely seen and never caught :o

kai
28th Aug 2008, 05:17
*agrees* but for thief 4 . i want more better and scarier monsters(wish for)i want more spooky plots/game environments too. eg.the haunted asylum. ups for the producers!

Thomas08
29th Aug 2008, 00:54
Hope they make another..

please keep garret :))