View Full Version : Re: Colours of Uniforms

27th Nov 2004, 12:40
Wasn't the difficulty in distinguishing between friend or foe a feature of warfare at that time?

As far as possible correct national and regimental uniform colours should be used. I agree with Termite that players can rise to the challenge or demands of a game with particular standards. The Napoleonic Wars are a famous period of early modern history and an accurate depiction of the armies and navies could make it useful as something that can help to inform and educate as well as entertain. There is prestige and kudos to be gained in this sort of thing and I think that this aspect has so far been neglected by game manufacturers.

27th Nov 2004, 19:40
I assume you wanted to reply, not start a new thread.

27th Nov 2004, 20:05
You assume correctly. I clicked the wrong button.....how embarassing.

28th Nov 2004, 14:13
I'm glad someone finally agrees with me.

28th Nov 2004, 16:37
Yes, there were many instances of friendly fire because of mistaken identity. For example, some french companies used red coats as part of their heraldry. Therefore as they advanced on an english column the english payed no heed, thinking they were an allied column coming to protect their flank. They were soon proven wrong when the french poured volley into their flank.
Sufficed to say, they were decimated.

28th Nov 2004, 21:32
What do you think the chances are of the AI to "think" that your units are friendly ? I'd rate them nonexistant.

Now, what are the chances of you thinking that the computer's units are friendly ? Small, but existant.

This creates a distinct disadvantage.

28th Nov 2004, 23:16
This may be true, but it would increase the realism. And the AI would not determine enemy or ally based on the colour of the troops Will. So there would be no problem with doing things such as mistaken identity with the game. Also I hope friendly fire is implemented so you would have to think about firing, instead of just throwing your artillery at your own lines that are in melee combat, just for the sake of destroying the enemy troops in combat with your own. With friendly fire activated, the artillery would also destroy your own troops.

29th Nov 2004, 00:49
I doubt Pyro will leave friendly fire out, but Willmore is right is definately right.

The AI knows exactly which troops it has, where they are and it will never forget, it will never go "Ah, that unit over there must be mine, 's green.", however if you're flitting from one end of your line to the other in the heat of battle, there is a chance you will mistake an enemy unit for one of your own.

29th Nov 2004, 22:05
That's true, but it would be interesting if there was a way to program the AI so it can't distinguish allies or enemies except based on color. Thats how it was in real warfare. You had to ask your scouts, and peer out and hope those troops to your flank rising dust clouds were yours.

29th Nov 2004, 22:14
The only way I could see friendly fire happening on a computer is maybe some troops in the crossfire during a charge or something. Other than that you could just call the units attacking your other troops off and the attack would continue. Besides, the units are supposed to obey your command right? So if you told them to fire on the far away enemy units they would keep doing that instead of turning around and attacking their friends.

29th Nov 2004, 22:47
But what Im saying is, cannon arent that accurate, and volleys had to be within like 20 feet to be effective during that time period because the accuracy was horrible on the muskets. You had to shove the gun down your enemy's throat for it to hit him =p. So Maybe your cannon miss and bombard your own troops if your troops are engaged in a volley.Also it takes awhile to get word to your own men. One of your aides would have to ride down and tell that regiment to retreat so you can bombard the enemy's line. By then it's a bit late eh? There was ALOT of friendly fire instances in the 19th century.

9th Dec 2004, 16:50
Originally posted by CastusPlebian
But what Im saying is, cannon arent that accurate, and volleys had to be within like 20 feet to be effective during that time period because the accuracy was horrible on the muskets.

20 feet? No way! Have you ever shot a musket? I suppose no, because they weren't THAT inaccurate!!!

9th Dec 2004, 18:04
Hanoverian experiments in 1790 showed that when fired at various ranges against a representative target (a placard 6 ft high and up to 50 yd long for infantry, 8 ft 6 in high for cavalry) the following results were achieved at the ranges show:

Range at 100(yd.)

Accuracy at target

At 200 yards



Percentage of musket ball hits on a fixed target

10th Dec 2004, 16:51
I've got some results of a shooting-attempt done in 1810 with different muskets on a 1,88 m high and 31,4 m long aim. 200 men fired a volley and for each distance there were different number of hits:

Altpreussisches Gew. 1780....:..92.;.....64..;....64..;......42

Altpr. Gew. 1780, modificated:...150.;..100.;....68..;......42

Preuss. Nothard Gew. 1805...:...145.;...97..;....56...;.....67

Neupreussisches Gew. 1809..:...149.;...105.;...58...;.....32

French Musket 1777/02..........:....151.;....99.;...53...;.....55

Brown Bess (New Pattern)......:....94..;..116.;...75...;.....55

Russian Musket 1806...............:...104.;...74..;...51..;......49

Gewehr = Gun (Musket) ; Preussisch = Prussian ; m = metres

10th Dec 2004, 18:49
Was Brown Bess the musket used at the time ? I thought it was some other one ... I'm probably wrong.

11th Dec 2004, 02:24
If I'm not mistaken the Brown Bess was the issued British rifle.

11th Dec 2004, 18:01
No, the british army used Brown Bess muskets during the napoleonic wars as simple infantry muskets, their Rifle was called 'Baker Rifle'! But there were different kinds of Brown Bess muskets used: First the long land old Pattern, and in the later years of war mostly india and new land Pattern!

12th Dec 2004, 00:00
Rifle, Musket all the same to me. :D

12th Dec 2004, 01:09
Originally posted by The_Russian_Rocket
Rifle, Musket all the same to me. :D

Yeah.. they are all useless.. i want a Gatling or a Maxim :D

Too bad they are 30 years away after the end of the timespan :mad: ;)

12th Dec 2004, 14:59
Hey! Muskets rule!
And you probably know the difference between a musket and a rifle, don't you? Muskets are cool, hehe...ehehehehe... I need some nachos! Hehehe...