PDA

View Full Version : Chevau Legers Polonais de la Garde Imperiale



Exmann
23rd Nov 2004, 01:11
I miss the Polish light lancers unit :mad:. They were one of the first lancer units in Western Europe and they had a major influence on the european warfare of this time. And were known as an elite cavalary unit, because of their great skills, courage and loyality to Napoleon.
It would be sad and maybe a little scandal to not put them into the game.
I still hope that they will come out with an expansion pack, maybe as a unit of the Kingdom of Warsaw. :rolleyes:

for more informations go to:

Polish lancers website (http://www.polishlancers.com/)

http://www.lastsquare.com/PrintCatalog/CranstonPix/un102.jpg

http://www.lastsquare.com/PrintCatalog/CranstonPix/un105.jpg

http://www.military-uniforms.com/un136.jpg

haradrim
23rd Nov 2004, 21:51
actually they are in the game, though not as know as polish lancers. The french recieve a unit called the lancer.
you can view a list of the nation's units on IG's homepage or TAFN

Exmann
24th Nov 2004, 12:55
I want to thank you for your reply, but have to say that there is a too big diffrence between a normal french lancer troop and a polish lancer unit.

1. As you probably already see in the title they were a part of the imperial guard.
2. As a lancer unit from Eastern Europe their skills are far more superior to that of Western European nations, because of the immense lack of experience the Western countries had with such units. Don't forget that this type of military formation was used by Eastern countries for the first time.
3. Because of the fact that Poland was under the reign of Russia, Austria and Prussia, Polish troops showed a incredible determination on the battlefields. It's a part of polish culture that is hard to explain. I think the endless fights for freedom and the Partition of Poland that came so suddenly, created a great bond to their own country, which made them lose their fear to die on the battlefield (I think maybe it was even an honor to die fighting ) making them a very hardy unit that is even not routing after the loss of half of their formation. A very good example for this is their charge at Somosierra (Spain).

haradrim
24th Nov 2004, 21:47
i understand their is a difference between the normal french lancer and the polish lancer but you have to understand that pyro is not going to make two lancer units for the french army it may be a little unrealistic but having too many unit types is bound to make the game unreasonably complicated, possibly scaring off some of the more casual gamers.

Exmann
25th Nov 2004, 23:16
Yeah, maybe you're right. So I have to hope for a Expansion. Are there any faction you would like to be included with an Expansion?

Willmore
26th Nov 2004, 01:49
Spain, Ottoman Empire, US

Tenjo_Kalle
26th Nov 2004, 11:09
How about a Swedish faction? That certanly would have more meaning to this game then including for instance the USA.

As you all probably know during this period Sweden fought several wars. Loosing Finland (Swedish for about 700 years) to Russia.

Later on gaining Norway from Denmark.

Napoleons marshal Bernadotte became Charles XIV Johan king of Sweden and waged war upon Napoleon. Yes I know he is not considered one of Napoleons strongest marshals but the relationship between him and Napoleon probably makes him the most intresting of them and since he became king and his dynasty still form the royal family of Sweden he was probably the most successful too in the end.

Kalle

Willmore
26th Nov 2004, 20:16
Good point, and perhaps some small German nation, which you could raise, consolidate the germanic states and be a rival with prussia and Austria.

Exmann
26th Nov 2004, 22:07
I want to see Duchy of Warsaw, Spain, Sweden and Ottoman Empire in it.

Capt.Jack Aubrey
27th Nov 2004, 06:15
Even though I am polish, It is sad that the armies of poland were even fought with Lancers, And men on horses when they had German tanks shooting at them. But I guess they never really thought anyone would attack them. Or a possibility that they were too poor.

Exmann
28th Nov 2004, 03:50
That's WW2. And don't forget that after the "Blitzkrieg", your people fought very brave against the Germans and won.

Capt.Jack Aubrey
28th Nov 2004, 04:45
Yes I know it was ww2, I am saying it is sad that they still only had horses, and my grandfathers brother, fought in the battle and died.

CastusPlebian
28th Nov 2004, 05:50
Yes, the Polish people were behind in technology during the beginning of ww2 for many good reasons actually. Germany, England, France and America and Russia were the only countries actually researching new technologies after ww1 simply because they had the resources and the drive. Lancers and cavalry were still used during ww1, as they were still feasible as an effective unit against infantry. Their did detiorate with the invention of the machine gun, but were still used. Poland at the time did not suspect Germany to become so strong industrially after ww1 due to the Treaty of Versailles, which greatly crippled the size of Germany's army. Poland had no idea that the Nazi party would take power and completely ignore the Treaty, and by then it was too late. By the time they realized Germany was lying to them that they would not attack Czechoslovakia, it was too late to enter any mass production for tanks or new weapons. Sorry for rambling but that is the reason why lancers were still in use by Poland and actually many other 3rd world countries during that time period.

Capt.Jack Aubrey
28th Nov 2004, 05:59
Yes, many german infantry units were killed very succesful by the Lancers, My grandfather did serve in the battle same as my uncle, but he killed at least 12 german soldiers, before he retreated. He did have the right idea to save the rest of my family. So he took them to a ship of my relatives and moved to America. He never talks about it though, He said it was terrible. But he was shot on his way off the battle feild. He never had it looked at because he pulled the bullet out by himself. I do only wish he had it checked for he died from it after a 7 years when he moved here.

CastusPlebian
28th Nov 2004, 06:14
My condolences. Also the life expectancy during that time period was far lower than it is today thanks to modern medicine. So it could have been a combination of things that killed your grandfather so soon after he moved here, including, as you mentioned, bullet wound complications.

Exmann
29th Nov 2004, 01:01
Don't forget that the tanks, the Germans used for their Blitzkrieg, where designed and produced in the Skoda factories in Prague. Without the occupation of the Czechoslovak Republic, they would NEVER have the technological know-how to build up their huge mechanized cavalary brigades.

Willmore
29th Nov 2004, 06:28
Are you sure about that ?

Which tanks exactly are you talking about ?

Panzer IV was created by Krupp.

Panzer III was also german.

Tiger and Panther tanks would not be available for the blitzkrieg, since they were not developed yet.


If you're talking about the Panzer-35 tank, produced by Skoda, they were ineffective, and were seldom used. Nowhere near the use of german Panzers.

Exmann
30th Nov 2004, 00:13
I am very sure. The German factories produces for the Luftwaffe planes and V-missiles. The Czech had a pretty good-running industry. The Blitzkrieg was a german tactic of striking with their tanks supported by aircrafts.

CastusPlebian
30th Nov 2004, 00:47
Sorry Exmann, thats wrong. The german tanks were produced in Germany, not Czech. Willmore is right, the Panzer-35 was very ineffective, it was proved weak against the sherman and T-34 tanks of the allies and was used as fodder for the larger Tiger and Panther tanks later in the war. Also the Czech people did not invent these weapons, so it is not that the Germans did not have the technological know how. Also the blitzkrieg was up until the defeat at the Battle of Britain and at that time, only the Panzer IV was in development in actually, a Krupp factory in Hamburg.
(rests case)

Capt.Jack Aubrey
2nd Dec 2004, 03:12
Originally posted by CastusPlebian
Sorry Exmann, thats wrong. The german tanks were produced in Germany, not Czech. Willmore is right, the Panzer-35 was very ineffective, it was proved weak against the sherman and T-34 tanks of the allies and was used as fodder for the larger Tiger and Panther tanks later in the war. Also the Czech people did not invent these weapons, so it is not that the Germans did not have the technological know how. Also the blitzkrieg was up until the defeat at the Battle of Britain and at that time, only the Panzer IV was in development in actually, a Krupp factory in Hamburg.
(rests case)

I sentece you five years, for.... being.... off topic!!! Yes!!!!.... Ummm Off topic yes... So Yes... Very Off Topic, And ummm. Report me on the upcomming war? And Yes!!! Some coffee too!!! Hot! Two sugars, and a small drench of half and half please! Yes, and no Nazis were evil... Tanks bad... go Napoleon!

CastusPlebian
2nd Dec 2004, 03:29
Thats not off topic. Off topic would be chocolate chip cookies. We were discussing why Poland was in the state it was in, and why it used the lancers during the war. Its still about Polish Lancers, so its on topic.

Capt.Jack Aubrey
3rd Dec 2004, 03:41
You evade me for the last time! I shall... do something positively evil and mean to you! Yes, very evil! Watch your back, some kind of twelve pounder cannon might be right behind you. Like litteraly, about a foot away.

Exmann
3rd Dec 2004, 11:25
1.@CastusPlebian: You have a wrong idea of Czech tochnology in this time-period :p . Czech tanks were very effective and their technology was used by the Nazis for their heavier tanks.Heavy tanks were more spectacular, but they were not numerous enough.
The workhorse of the German Panzerwaffe at the start of the war was neither the Panzer III nor the Panzer IV, but the Czech tanks. The Panzer 35 (t) and the Panzer 38 (t) made up one quarter of the total strength in tanks in 1940-41. Although their armament and armor were a bit too light, they offset that drawbacks by their extraordinary mechanical reliability. Long after they were removed from the frontline (in the end of 1941), their chassis went on being used to mount a variety of weapon systems.

2.@Capt.Jack Aubrey: Yes it is a little bit off-topic . But who cares since the discussion is interesting ;) .

3.Does anybody else want to see polish lancers as an unit in a french or polish army(in an expansion)? :confused:

CastusPlebian
3rd Dec 2004, 20:05
Actually Exmann, i went to read on this because I was curious. The 4th and 5th panzer divisons which consisted of the 35's and the 38's were almost completely annihilated in france. The sherman tanks, which were lightly armoured compared to the Tigers or Panthers were even superior to the 35's and 38's. German soldiers called them "The Zitrone" which means lemon in english. I suppose we all know the meaning of lemon in vehicle terms =p True, they were maneuverable but that does not count to much if you can get to the battlefield, but not fight.
Also Czech technology was not used in later german tanks, the only thing that was is the the track system (movement) which was actually complained about by soldiers on the tiger tanks. All Tiger, Panther and later panzers were all new technology by the Germans.