View Full Version : Dead Keeper at Garrett's Apartment

Old Man
15th Nov 2004, 15:25
Well, this doesn't look like it's going to work. I'm playing through TDS and one of my objectives is to have the Bodies Discovered statistic remain zero throughout. But I've come across a glitch. In day six when it comes time to go to Garrett's Apartment there are supposed to be a couple of Keeper Enforcers there waiting to ambush me. They're there alright but one of them is dead and the other one, of course, notices the body. And this is counted as a Body Discovered.

Okay, so, I reload just before the Caduca murder investigation, Garrett Trial, etcetera cutscene and work it through again. It's after this cutscene that the Keeper Enforcers appear in the game. Nope, he's still dead. I don't have to back up to the Clocktower, do I? So, I redid the Clocktower mission and played through once again. Nope, he's still dead.

Do I have to restart the entire game? Are these spawn points determined at the very beginning?

Or is there some way to tweak the .ini's to give this guy a kick so he doesn't spawn dead like this?

If you think this might better be in the TDS forum go ahead and move it there, moderator(s). But I suspect I'm looking for a technical answer from ISA or EIDOS. IMO, this guy should not spawn dead like this.

Update: I've gone ahead and uninstalled and reinstalled TDS and the v1.1 patch and tried again from the end of the Clocktower mission save. He's still dead. Plus I noticed one of those thugs hanging around the fountain in day six too that I don't recall from earlier playthroughs.

I had all of John P.'s textures installed at some point but I'd uninstalled all of them by now. I noticed the date stamps on the ./Maps/*.ibt files were too current to be originals so thought I'd better reset the game back to its CD freshness. Plus I didn't want to restart from the beginning just to find out it was those texture changes that screwed things up. With a fresh game I'll start over at the beginning.

Old Man
18th Nov 2004, 08:13
I've played it through with a fresh install and patch and from the beginning and this guy's still dead so I guess that's it.

18th Nov 2004, 09:04
I've played through that section two or three times and have never had the Enforcer DEAD in the room.

I have lured him into the hall and sneaked in behind the other guy (the normal keeper type) more than a dozen times, and on my visits to the room in every run through the game, he has always been alert and alive.

Don't know why he is dead for you. I have goaded him to fight the hall guard, and have had both of the keepers out of the room searching for Garrett. They have both been alive (very much so) every time I have visited the apartment to check the NOTE.

Old Man
18th Nov 2004, 13:43
It's odd. I race there from Old Quarter and even before I can open Garrett's door, I "hear" the survivor say "This one's dead!" This while he spots the corpse still from Garrett's bedroom. He hasn't even gotten out by the fire yet. In fact I have been able to open the door, enter the apartment moving to my left, and gas him, well into the bedroom near the training room door, where he couldn't even see the corpse yet, but my playthrough still showed a Body Discovered at the end of the next mission. I thought once I heard the screams of the dying one as I entered the building but I've been unable to duplicate this. But this is an objective so I can't bypass it. I'm out of ideas how to cause this to change.

Old Man
18th Nov 2004, 14:13
It's the fire in the fireplace! He's burning to death. I put the fire out at the beginning of day six and they were both alive when I got there. I'd noticed that the cat in Captain Moira's bedroom burned himself to death in the fireplace there too. Okay. Onward. Another mystery solved.

Mr. Perfect
18th Nov 2004, 14:16
I was under the impresion that the guy who ends up dead is a regular keeper, so I just figured it was a rouge allied keeper getting offed by the seeker.

Old Man
18th Nov 2004, 14:30
This turns out not to belong in this technical forum afterall. Could one of you kind moderators move this thread on over to the TDS forum for me please. And, if you feel it warrants, spoilerize it too. Thanks.

5th Dec 2004, 03:59
I have had the same problem at this stage, though I have yet to play through on the harder settings where you have the "No Body count" restriction.

The one NPC dies the instant you load into the area, even before you can get near your apartment door at run speed. If indeed it is an issue with the fireplace, then it is classified as a game bug, and the placement of that NPC needs to be changed so he does not end up burning in the fireplace and causing your "mission" to fail.

Old Man
5th Dec 2004, 08:45
Just so I'm sure that you understand, Loreweaver, the zero bodies discovered objective I had set for myself only and is never a real TDS restriction at any difficulty level.

6th Dec 2004, 01:08
Ah, ok. I'm just finishing up the game on the "normal" difficulty, so I do not yet know exactly what additional restrictions the harder modes have.

I misunderstood and thought the game was reseting the encounter on you for violating a restriction (such as when you blackjack a keeper or get caught in the forbidden library).

Ian Flaer
8th Dec 2004, 15:12
I have this same thing happening. but like Mr. Perfect, I thought the dead guy was a regular keeper who was on my side and got killed for it. He didn't seem to have a mask on like the enforcers do. these dang enforcers are on a rampage in my game. they've been trying to kill everyone they can so long as they are armed. City Watchmen, Hammers, Pagans, Thugs they all get attacked by the enforcers. citizens, and sometimes even guards and hammers run away from the enforcers. I've actually found my self DEFENDING hammers. since I'm allied with them I know I can always run into hammer territory if I need an escape from hunting Enforcers. I've seen a scared citizen run and get a guard and take him to the enforcer to get killed. I don't see how you could possibly go through this day without a single body being found. I mean what about Old Quarter where an enforcer attacks the Hammer guards outside Ironwood? either he kills them or they kill him, or you kill/knock him and he is discovered by the hammers or the hammers are discovered by him, catch 22. good luck.

8th Dec 2004, 20:05
If I understand the standard "ghosting" rules, as long as you had nothing to do with the dead body and you are never seen, it is not a bust.

However, under the "Strict Ghosting" rules, I doubt anyone could complete Thief 3. Especially during the Enforcer stages, where there are dead bodies and people running around BEFORE you even reach that part of the city (and the game of course blames you). Of course, I could be wrong and the "strict ghosting" rules don't apply to game scripts outside your actions either.

Old Man
9th Dec 2004, 01:36
It can be done. All you have to do is get to the Enforcers before they get to anyone else and eliminate them with gas and hide the bodies before anyone sees them. It's a chore in some places but really not that difficult if you retry a few times. Plus gas arrows and bombs don't count against as damage given.

The game has an "efficiency" setting just like T1 and T2. The action won't start until you're within a certain distance. So take your time dealing with each Enforcer and the next one will be waiting for you.

For example, on day six when the Enforcers are first deployed and you arrive in Old Quarter, have a gas bomb ready for the two of them that come out of the compound. Get them both with one bomb. Then move out and gas arrow the one by the Stonemarket gate. Then on to the one coming out from the front of Ironwood. I get him close enough to a torch that the gas arrow douses the torch as well and his body crumples into shadow so the Hammerites can't see it. I leave the one down by the graveyard since he can't quite see the two Hammerites at the Ironwood front doors. Then on to the Docks gate and get that one before anyone wanders down there. Leave the one on the roof. He doesn't do anything from up there.

The real trickiest is the first Enforcer in the Docks. You've got to set the Docks up properly before triggering the Enforcers so the City Watch is away from where the Enforcer spawns so you can get to him before the Watch and before he spots the Watch too. Or you could just eliminate the Watch with gas too so the Enforcer won't see him but that's too much like cheating.

Plus I had to avoid Stonemarket Proper altogether from this point on to the end of the game. Too much stuff going on there. Well, except for placing the artifact but day 9 doesn't show in the statistics.

Anyhow, this isn't Ghosting -- gas isn't allowed in Ghosting. Just zero times caught and zero bodies discovered. Anything else is fair game.

Loreweaver is correct, bodies you didn't cause don't count against you in Ghost Mode. But you still cannot do anything that causes them to fight each other either. You've got to remain unseen and unheard. And some scripted stuff is exempt especially if it's caused by Garrett's proximity like the LotP archers.

9th Dec 2004, 18:27
It still could be that the dead guy is a keeper that was "on your side" and killed by the enforcers, but the level designer just did it the easy way by sticking him next to or in the fire, never figuring you'd put out your own fire!