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Speesh
23rd Oct 2004, 19:47
Does anyone know if it is legal to use Thief 3 ambients in Thief 1 or 2 fan missions? I would think it is as long as I don't sell them and if I give credit to Eidos and Ion Storm, but I just wanted to be sure.

The Milky Bar Kid
23rd Oct 2004, 19:57
I don't think so mate. The thing is, the new sounds are...well new, and don't feature in Thiefs 1 or 2, therefore, you would be giving people (the Thief 1 and 2 owners) things they hadn't given Eidos money for. I rekon this probably breaches the copyrights, designs and patents act or sumthin similiar. In any case, I doubt it is legal, basically cause it's like porting Thief 1 and 2 to the Thief 3 engine (we can dream can't we :D) and giving it out.

tealsmith
23rd Oct 2004, 20:07
Originally posted by The Milky Bar Kid
I don't think so mate. The thing is, the new sounds are...well new, and don't feature in Thiefs 1 or 2, therefore, you would be giving people (the Thief 1 and 2 owners) things they hadn't given Eidos money for.

I'm not too sure about that. I remember a Thief 2 fan mission being released a while ago that used textures or sounds from Thief: Gold and System Shock 2, and there was no problem with that.

Peter_Smith
23rd Oct 2004, 22:11
Originally posted by tealsmith
I remember a Thief 2 fan mission being released a while ago that used textures or sounds from Thief: Gold and System Shock 2, and there was no problem with that.
How do you know there was no problem? It was done, but that does not mean the copyright owners would not object. I think the only way you could assume that there was no problem is with your prior knowledge that SS2, T-Gold, and T2 were all developed by the same company, Looking Glass Studios, and LGS would "probably not mind" because the company no longer exists. These games were not published by the same company, however. Eidos published Thief, but LGS published SS2. So there is still a question of copyright ownership of the SS2 stuff, even if nobody complained.

In the case of Thief 3, you have a different software developer (Ion Storm) but the same publisher (Eidos). It is not clear to me that Thief 3 sounds can be used in Thief 2 dromed. It seems improbable to me that Eidos would have given perpetual rights to take things from future Eidos products in the Dromed EULA. You might check it to see what it says about that. Regardless, the only way to know for sure whether there is a problem is to find out who owns the copyright and ask them permission.

If it were me, I would make an honest attempt to find out who to ask permission of and then write them a letter asking permission. If I received no reply, I would wait a reasonable period, send them another letter advising them of your intent, wait again, and then go ahead.

In any case, giving credit does not make it OK to take stuff. It is OK to quote portions of a published source with credit, but it is not OK to take their material in bulk and use it for your own purposes. If they give permission, then you can use it, but you should also give them credit and note that you received their permission. You can observe that in the sound credits of movies, for example.

tealsmith
23rd Oct 2004, 22:36
Originally posted by Peter Smith
I think the only way you could assume that there was no problem is with your prior knowledge that SS2, T-Gold, and T2 were all developed by the same company, Looking Glass Studios, and LGS would "probably not mind" because the company no longer exists.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but System Shock 2 was actually developed by Irrational Games, who are still alive and kicking. They just did Tribes: Vengeance and are now working on Bioshock. I know the game was published by LGS though.

Peter_Smith
23rd Oct 2004, 22:46
You are correct, tealsmith. I had not noticed that. That fact, however, makes the question of taking sounds and textures from SS2 even more murky, casting further doubt on the assumption that it was OK.