View Full Version : How to win Hammerite faction w/o mite kills?

4th Oct 2004, 06:11
There are 15 mites dispersed around the city. Killing them is how you are supposed to ally yourself with the Hammerites. However, I haven't found one that won't alert other nearby AIs. They blow up when impaled with a blessed broadhead.

I'm trying to ghost my way through but killing mites is definitely alerting AIs for quite a distance. I have tossed the plant into the fireplace and that gave me some alliance with the Hammerites but not nearly enough. Any other way to acquire alliance points with the Hammerites?

4th Oct 2004, 06:26
Kill ZOMBIES. At Ironwood, on the Abysmal Gale, in the Factory portion of St Edgars.

4th Oct 2004, 13:35
Killing zombies, or even alerting them, would bust the ghost for sure.

4th Oct 2004, 14:32
No offense, but if the Hammerites are never going to see you anyway, do you really need ally status with them? Or are you just trying to see if it's possible?

Squeaky Yugi
4th Oct 2004, 19:41
How far along are you? Right after getting the letter,

Hammerites will start appearing on the streets of Stonemarket Plaza and Old Quarter, and eventually branch out to Stonemarket Proper. Pagans will appear in the Docks and Auldale, and will also branch out to Stonemarket Proper and Old Quarter.

If you are hostile with either one, they will attack you on sight. If you're allied, you can enter their territory without being attacked.

There's a bit of loot in each faction's base, and after completing the Cradle mission, you'll need to enter the Hammers' church, which will be a lot easier if you don't have to avoid them. Soon after, you'll need to get an amulet from the Pagans, which they'll only give you willingly if you're allied

One cool trick is that If you Blackjack a thug, city watchman, or civillian in front of either faction while allied to them, they'll attack any others they see of the appropriate group

5th Oct 2004, 12:33
I don't know that there would be any way to ghost and get the Hammerites to ally with you. But, as Quilan said, if you are ghosting, why does it matter if you are allied or not? The very definition of ghosting makes it clear that they are not to know you exist. Even if they are allied, the instant they ackowlege your existence, you're busted.

5th Oct 2004, 22:29
You can always improve it for this reason:

Try to kill all the rustmites and/or shoot moss arrows in the cornerstones. There will be a reward, though if you haven't tried it yet I won't spoil it by telling you.;)

6th Oct 2004, 05:00
Well, I was trying to change faction status for 2 reasons: one to see the purported reward (although it isn't much) and, two, to accomplish as many of the side ventures as possible. In the same way, I'll do the side treks of disposing of the body from the docks pub and stopping Lokspur from regenerating the zombies in the cemetary (to let the Hammerites do the burial). I'm still trying to figure out the trick for the secret back in Garrett's apartment. Obviously it isn't necessary for ghosting but it's something to accomplish.

The pagans can be allied without hitting a single cornerstone (I've mentioned the trick in another of my posts) but I'm hunting down the cornerstones, anyway. The best I can do to ally with the Hammerites is to get them neutral by burning the tree sapling. However, I could swear that Hammerite ally status was non-zero just before I burned the tree but can't figure out what I could've done to get them even partially allied.

As far as not allying with the Pagans or Hammerites, well, getting their alliance is no more anti-ghosty than the fact that you are forced via objectives to read Dyan's note in the docks and talk to what's-his-name in the Keeper library which starts the whole thing off in the first place. They already know whether you are or are NOT generating an alliance with them, so you're not ghosting any more by not allying with them.

If I only did the minimal stuff needed in the game, it wouldn't be so hard to ghost it. I am wondering, however, how much the ghosting rules are going to have to get bent in this version of Thief. There aren't many loot picks that won't cause what might be called a 1-1/2 alert state change. You just don't get a "Huh, must've been rats" first alert but instead the pedestrian stops to notice their purse is missing or they are scripted to trigger when a stack of coins is missing (which is even out of their line of sight). Since the guidelines of ghosting was to not generate more than a 1st alert, walking by pedestrians that do not alert to you should count as a non-bust (and so being allied presents an advantage when allied with those factions). The idea was that you were never seen when ghosting but the measure of that was based on the AI alert levels. After all, you MUST talk to lots of Keepers during the entire game so ghosting would make it impossible to continue. So I'm going by the "Caught" status noted in the Status screen at the end of a mission. Haven't been *caught* yet.

However, the "Caught" status is a bit loose. If you purloin a stack of coins that scripts an AI to go looking around but never full alerted and never found you, is that a bust? When you overhear the Garrett impersonator taking the heist job for the dagger, as he walks out and closes the door then you opening it will put the drunk archer in a slow and short-lived hunt mode. I even tried to slide in behind the imposter as he left to block the door from closing but this also put the archer in slow-hunt mode.

Haven't had any blackjacks, either, but I notice they count the forced blackjack from the training mission in the aggregate statistics (you cannot proceed without blackjacking the bar man). Personally it sucks that Ion was so stupid as to make a player redo the training mission rather than skip it. After all, this IS supposed to the *third* in a series. Oh well. That's as stupid as the Bodies Discovered statistic which has nothing to do with the bodies that YOU caused to be strewn about. I see non-zero body discovery counts and yet I haven't blackjacked, killed, or in any way been responsible for whatever body got discovered (and I may not even had been wherever was the body that got discovered).

By the way, and back on topic, would killing a mite be considered a bust since it is a *semi*-objective? It isn't an main objective and you can continue without every puncturing a mite and having it explode. But then you are killing an AI (i.e., the mite). When ghosting before, you were not allowed to kill spiders even if they never alerted human AIs. So killing a mite might itself be considered a ghost bust rather than just trying to find one isolated where the AIs are so far away that you might get away with killing that one. I haven't checked to see if killing a rust mite gets that kill included in the "Killed" statistics (but it does show up in the Faction screen).

Mr. Perfect
6th Oct 2004, 06:52
I don't think mites count as kills.

Another thing to consider is that mites are non-combatants, and can not be alerted, while spiders had both of those properties. The mites are just moveing cornerstones for all they do...

6th Oct 2004, 10:34
It's not that they're alerted, it's that they damn well explode when killed and alert others :p

Mr. Perfect
6th Oct 2004, 19:59
Oh I know. That's kinda what the whole thread is about. ;) You where saying how in ghosting you wern't allowed to mess with spiders, and you thought these seemed like the same thing. That's what I ment.

6th Oct 2004, 20:07
Well I havent gotten far in the game yet (I'm on the zombie ship mission) but you may be able to do it by accomplishing "missions" so far... I only know of 1 but that's cause I havent even gotten halfway thru yet... example of mission: burn pagan tree in docks.