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View Full Version : The most idiotic opinions/suggestions



midroth
29th Aug 2004, 13:57
Pick one...:


What does Tomb Raider need to survive?
February 03, 2004 - After the relatively poor sales performance and mediocre reviews of the last Tomb Raider game, publisher Eidos decided to give the reigns to Crystal Dynamics.
The editors consider the following: What do you think the franchise needs to get back on top? What made the original Tomb Raider good (or was it never good?) -- and what's the magic that CD needs to bring back to the franchise? Do you even think the series can get out of the mire it's slowly been descending into?
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Steve Butts, IGNPC: A better question is whether or not they should even bother.
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David Adams, IGN Downloads: Hey, isn't CHiPs on?
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Chris Carle, IGN Guides: Although I have never been a fan of this series of games, there is a bigger issue at hand... when is it time for publishers to say "when"?

This franchise especially has been dead for years, and if it wasn't for a buxom main character who fuels the demographic's prurient desires (and I'm not knocking prurient desires, here), it would have been s**tcanned a long time ago. Instead, it has spun out into films and comic books.

It's all a part of the "cash in" thinking that has made endless sequels such a staple in this industry. Like Hollywood, the games industry is now about big money, and that means minimizing risk. There is nothing less risky given the demographic than an ass-kicking chick in a revealing halter top.

What the games industry needs is more balance. For every sequel of a Tomb Raider game, we need another Rez. For every Mario title, we need a Gunvalkyrie. We need indepedents making as many games as major corporations. We need less licensing and more innovation. And I know all of this isn't necessarily practical, but a stronger indie movement (especially on the console side) is needed.

Now for what Tomb Raider could use.
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Peer Schneider, IGN: Well, the game sold almost 300,000 units in the US last year, so I think you guys are a bit too quick to write it off as another franchise gamers don't need. Obviously, someone still wants to play these games. 300,000 is weak by Tomb Raider standards, but is still like 270,000 units more than Beyond Good and Evil, for example.
I have to admit that I can't blame them. I really liked the atmosphere and direction of the first Tomb Raider, for example. It was pretty much Indiana Jones with a chick with Prince of Persia in 3D gameplay. The whole exploration feel was really cool. Alas, the series just didn't evolve. That whole "hit your button long before you jump" thing should have been gone by the second game. Same with the tedious block pushing puzzles and the outdated aiming mechanics.

Ironically, the answer to what direction Tomb Raider should go into has already been given by other publishers. Take the acrobatics from Prince of Persia: Sands of Time and add some of the shooting elements from Metal Gear, and I'll play the next Tomb Raider.

With Crystal Dynamics in charge of the next game, we can at least rest assured that the cutscenes and voice acting will be up to par.
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Tom McNamara, IGNPC: "Ironically, the answer to what direction Tomb Raider should go into has already been given by other publishers. Take the acrobatics from Prince of Persia: Sands of Time and add some of the shooting elements from Metal Gear, and I'll play the next Tomb Raider."

This is what I was thinking, although it's a fine line between acrobatic action adventure and tedious, frustrating jumping puzzles and block pushing. They should probably go console-only on their next release, standardizing a combat mechanism for gamepads. It seems like the Tomb Raider control scheme could highly benefit from this.

I think the last TR game sold so many copies because there either weren't any compelling alternatives, or those closely-matching alternatives (like Beyond Good and Evil) weren't marketed very much or very well. If Bloodrayne 2 learns from the mistakes of the original, the female action game will probably make a decided shift from the stale gamesplay Tomb Raider provides at this point.

I think the last TR game's small foray into Splinter Cell-like stealth action looked very promising, and it could inject some much-needed freshness. I think people are ready for the franchise to evolve.
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Dan Adams, IGNPC: Bigger boobs. Everybody likes huge boobs, right? I know Stephen does.
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Ed Lewis, IGNPS2: Possible new directions for Lara Croft:
Lara Croft'sXtreme Beach Volleyball
Lara Croft: Underground!!! Customize her body with vinyl decals. As you level up, choose different body parts to sponsor.
Lara Croft's Horse Pervert

Or they can just do what they always do, take the unsold copies of Angel of Darkness and stick Tomb Raider VII labels on them. Should be good enough.
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Stephen Ng, IGNFAQs: The basics of Tomb Raider were novel -- for 1995. Some people point out that it is basically "Indiana Jones with a Prince of Persia" feel, which summarises the game to the point of, "Oh. That's it?"

Tomb Raider is one franchise that has aged very badly, serving the same game with better graphics and textures for over seven years. Gameplay can be remarkably dull considering that each successive Tomb Raider seems to be a fan-based upgrade of the previous one. What can be done to revive this much maligned series? Here're some off the wall suggestions:
Upgrade the engine and the controls. The concept of using a series of basic move-sets to explore a complex environment was key to the first game's success; re-do the controls (Prince of Persia is a good case study, although the upcoming remake of Pitfall looks promising) to make them more intuitive, and Lara less rocky when moving.
Focus on more adventuring. Exploration does not mean find a key and open a lock, or carrying around two tons of deadweight artefacts for five stages waiting for them to do something. Allow Lara the ability to explore a world (Drakan does an excellent job if this) rather than shunt the player from one stage to another.
Rethink the inventory-combat system. Lara's inventory management system hasn't changed since the first game -- although not necessarily a bad thing, it may be a contributing factor to her combat system, which is basically ranged combat without style (unlike Devil May Cry)
Crystal Dynamics should look to the Core dev team that created Project Eden. The same people who were responsible for the first Tomb Raider may be the only ones who can save it.
Those are some ideas to consider.
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Fran Mirabella III, IGN Insider: I have to admit, since the first two Tomb Raiders, I've pretty much had little interest in the sequels. I was curious about the most recent upgrade, but after seeing it played here in the office, I decided it was still too clunky and out-of-focus -- it needs more direction, indeed.

Like Carle pointed out, Tomb Raider has the image that male gamers are all about. A busty English chick that can weild firearms and solve the mysteries of ancient, hidden temples is a rarity these days.

I think Tomb Raider's problem is that it has relied too much on its image lately. Like Peer noted, other publishers are presenting the solutions it needs. Crystal Dynamics has some talent and I think that it needs to take a Rare-type approach. In the same way that Rare looked at the example of Nintendo with Mario 64 and made Banjo-Tooie with its own style and improvements, Crystal Dynamics can do the same thing, only it will have to borrow from several examples.

I think Peer's got it right when it comes to the Prince control mechanics. Lara Croft is pretty flexible and acrobatic. Start by giving us that tactile satisfaction that Prince of Persia does. It has to look good and feel good to be climbing around environments. I don't mean bump-mapping and a large ability list. The animation is very important as is the sensitivity of the control.

Next up, I think that the latest Bond game, Everything or Nothing, from EA is a very, very good example of what Lara should be doing. Everything or Nothing has a lot of variety -- third-person shooting, stealth, driving, cliff-diving, rappelling, multiple routes, cooperative play. It's a very thick experience and Tomb Raider can benefit from that, too, I think.

But, as a few of us have said, being focused and honing in on what makes Tomb Raider fun in the first place is important. It does need a really solid sneaking/shooting engine.

It's easy to say just take one-part Prince of Persia, one-part Everything or Nothing, and fold it with a helping of Splinter Cell, but accomplishing even one of those games on their own is hard enough. And on top of that Tomb Raider needs to be unique in its own right, and more than just a set of double Ds.
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Chris Roper, IGN Special Projects: I never really liked the original Tomb Raider, so I don't really care what happens to the series. Actually, it's become somewhat amusing to me to watch what's happening with it, the hype built up by the next group of 14 year-old boys and the downhill slide of the games' playability.

So I say make 5,000 more. Just don't make me play them.
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Hilary Goldstein, IGN Guides: This franchise had one-and-a-half good titles in its history. It may be hard to remember back to when the original came out, but it did some impressive stuff, combining puzzles and action. Frankly, it was a cool game with some flaws, but it was unique. Nowadays, it's not unique at all and the series is just another in a long line of action adventure games. The character is interesting to horny teenage boys, but you could call this game Jubaba and have it star a fat dude in leather and the story and adventure elements would remain the same -- and likely all the flaws. Unlike Mario or Sonic, Lara Croft is not a video game icon and can easily be replaced.

But let's assume that some people out there have some sort of emotional attachment to the LC and want to see her adventures continue. So what can CD do to revive the franchise? Make a game that doesn't suck.

No, really, that's all they need. If Angel of Darkness didn't suck, wasn't filled with bugs and terrible mechanics, it would have at least been a critical success. I don't care what the main character looks like or does, if the game sucks the game sucks. Take 3 years, build from the ground up, forget about what Tomb Raider was and try to make a brand new adventure game with some good puzzles, solid controls, and smart gameplay.

If you're gonna have a buxom babe star in a game, you don't want "sucking" to be solely associated with the gameplay. Also, Lara should always be naked.
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Jeremy Dunham, IGNPS2: I think Tomb Raider already got what it needed. Which was an all-new (and much stronger) developer. Ideas pertaining to its concept and its mechanics are probably already different from the get-go; but if I was to choose something I'd really like to see differently, it's Lara's freedom of movement and the strength of her puzzles.

If Tomb Raider VII were structured anything like Prince of Persia with a greater emphasis on action and item retrieval then you'd have yourself quite an entertaining little jaunt.
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Doug Perry, IGNPS2: Honestly, after having followed the series very carefully since its inception, I'm over Tomb Raider. Lara can just go away for all I care. I want something new. Eidos and Core made it hard to like Lara as the series progressed, and it pretty much shot itself in the gut with that last effort. They stretched the series out far too long, and I honestly think that if you want slaughter a series, Eidos did a case study in it. Game publishers in the future will look back on Tomb Raider and go, ah ha, don't do that, that, that, that and that.

The first two games were innovative in 3D movement and control at the time; and they had some problems that were overlooked because the game did so many other things well. Kinda like the GTA series on PS2. Then, TR3 was ridiculously hard, and by the time TR: The Last Revelation came about -- using the exact same engine, control scheme, movement, etc. -- people were sick of it. Tomb Raider Chronicles was almost a parody. A last, last, last, desperate ditch effort to try to make some money on the dying series. Angel of Darkness seemed like a gasping stab at not changing the series yet yet appearing as if it was being changed. But the result was sort or like patching up a person with Band-aids who's shot full of bullets.

I think real Tomb Raider fans would love to see another game in the series, and they would love to see Crystal Dynamics breathe fresh life into it. There are numerous things that can be done, and I'm sure Crystal D has dozens of ideas, but it's in the implementation in which the magic is made or messed up.

Sticking with third-person action and adventure is fine. Lara, is after all, a sexy female Indiana Jones, and discovering secrets and ancient treasures is always a great place for a videogame.

But they need to get rid of the grid system. Ditch it altogether. In fact, ditch everything from the old series. It's all old. Start from scratch. Basically, Crystal D needs to look at Prince of Persia and take the best aspects of that game and start anew. It should be an action game with tons of adventure aspects, fully fluid moveable cameras, and quick, responsive controls. Keep the swimming, keep the huge environments, but make it swift, controllable, and get some good action in there.

For the record, I liked some of the directions Core was going with Angel of Darkness (which we referred to at IGN as "Anus of Darkness"). The movie-like story was perfect. The dark Lara was cliche, but it wasn't bad either. I mean, I like her when she's pissed and mean. Hard edged stuff is cool be me, and it's the flavor of the new era. Jak II is hard-edged, right? Fine by me. Stealth is a good idea, and so is rock climbing and swimming. Anyway, Crystal D should just forget all about marketing and re-create her, I don't know, as an anime character, or as a hard-assed pregnant dog who just blows enemies with away with no remorse. she needs to be brutal and deadly, with a touch of class. Core did give her that in Angel of Darkness.

or...Crystal D could go the ICO route, but those ideas just seem to clash -- ICO and Lara Croft? Hm... In any case, they should scrap everything, create a brand new engine and infuse it with newness.

Source: IGN


MY "WINNER": Dan Adams, the guy with the mother complex. :mad:

Solange
29th Aug 2004, 14:09
Ed Lewis, IGNPS2: Possible new directions for Lara Croft:
Lara Croft'sXtreme Beach Volleyball
Yes! Or why not a Lara Croft Football game ! ! ! ? ? ?

Run around a large field controlling a team of Lara Crofts ,playing against a team of Kurtis Trents! Perfect, eye candy for all tastes... :D


Or they can just do what they always do, take the unsold copies of Angel of Darkness and stick Tomb Raider VII labels on them. Should be good enough.
Now this is really inventive! :D

Maynlinz
29th Aug 2004, 18:21
Douglass "Wipe" Perry has been a hater since forever. I really wish he'd crawl back under his rock or that IGN would fire him. These so-called Insiders demonstrate perfectly how far out of touch they are with Lara's fans by being so ready to dismiss the series altogether. And, to claim that Lara Croft is not an icon comparable to the likes of Sonic (gag) or Mario is just ridiculous. Lara is not only an icon, she is a worldwide phenomenon! :cool:

Also, since this "article" was published, TAOD has gone on to sell close to 700,00 copies in North America alone. I've no idea what the European sales figures are, but I'll bet they are nothing to sneeze at. I also know that when TAOD came out, it was in the top ten sellers list for three months and was the Number One selling game last July, according to EGM magazine.

Sadly, this is the type of crap that passes for journalism most of the time at IGN. They think that imbibing alcohol (and other, less legal, substances) and then bashing on something is "cool" and that their readers will get off on it as much as they do. And, let's face it, ranking on Lara has beocme somewhat of a tradition among gaming's "elite." :(

WesternWhiteWolf
29th Aug 2004, 19:41
What a bunch of perverted and idiotic suggestions.

WesternWhiteWolf
29th Aug 2004, 19:42
What a bunch of perverted and idiotic suggestions.

WesternWhiteWolf
29th Aug 2004, 19:42
What a bunch of perverted and idiotic suggestions.

jso2897
29th Aug 2004, 19:57
"Hard-assed pregnant dog"?!?!? Huh?
Perhaps if the magazines these guys write for would include a small packet of whatever they're smoking with each issue, the rest of us could get on their wavelength.....

Lia67
29th Aug 2004, 20:22
If they want to improve Tomb Raider they should look in the community chat forums. The members are literally telling you what needs improvement. Also I don't agree that the game is geared towards men. I believe that Lara is no weakling! The fact that she's an archeologist/adventurer has some bearing on intelligence and witt, not to mention good reflexes.

I honestly think that future TR games should not loose sight of the games beginnings and what future adventures should be like.
Please keep in mind for example that fighting aliens or spys has nothing to do with tombraiding. Seems to me that the game should remain true to the title, after all it's what fans expect when they buy the game.

Let's aslo look at the fact that the game does'nt stress you out as much as other games do. Unfortunatly they seem to be selling better. But alot of people prefer the lower stress, puzzle solving games that test your intelligence instead of turning your brain to mush!

In conclusion, Lara has had her image changed with an up-to- date new look so now is the time to start looking at a fresh new perspective with a down to earth feel to it. In other words, keep it real.