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Walter
16th Aug 2004, 10:04
A few questions about the naval battles;
1. How many ships will be able at the battlefield totaly?
2. Are formations included?
3. Are elements such as moral included?
4. Can you board the enemy?
5. Sea storms, that can affect battles and sink ships?
6. This one is just a smaller wonder, but if you a naval battle emerge at the coast will you see land at the battlefield? (Can you place forts on the coast then?)

Kai-Arne
16th Aug 2004, 10:28
3.=Yes, sailors will be influenced by several points (morale,discipline...)
4.=Yes
6.=I suppose: yes

sick
16th Aug 2004, 11:56
It would be super cool to see point 5 in the game.
The weather already affects the units on land so why not the ships?

I am Canadian!
16th Aug 2004, 22:42
Just a few more questions(I know you'd rather have answers but this is all that I've got):

1. How will the "Weather Guage" or the direction of the wind affect maneuvering at sea?

2. Can you conduct a shore bombardment?

3. Can you create a combined land/sea battle or an amphibious landing supported by warships?

4. If you can board other players ships, wouldn't that make the battle very complex and confusing?

5. From a management point of view, can you design your own ships or are there predetermined classes that you can build? I personally think it would be awesome if you could design your own ships, imagine a six-deck 260-gun battleship flying your flag as it victoriously destroys an enemy frigate with a single broadside.

Willmore
17th Aug 2004, 02:17
On the point of storms.

True they were important at the time, but with ships of frigate size and above, it was very hard to sink them in a simple storm, unless they were thrown on a rocky shore. It would be a nice option but think of the following:


As in land battles, most of the pre-battle things are skipped, and you're put right into the battle. And there were almost no "storm battles" thus, you would generally think a storm would be avoided, and only then a battle would start.

Walter
17th Aug 2004, 08:29
Yes, well of course the didnĀ“t roam around the sea looking for storms to battle in, but i mean on the strategic map, every time you push "the round button" a message can be displayed saying that a storm has occured and have sunk for example 1 of your 7 friggates or something like that. Thats was what I was thinking about:)

Willmore
17th Aug 2004, 15:01
Possibly, but with the exception of the Horn, and some Pacific and Atlantic storms, I can't think of any storm that could sink frigates. Espcecially not in Europe.

Kai-Arne
17th Aug 2004, 15:20
Originally posted by I am Canadian!
Just a few more questions(I know you'd rather have answers but this is all that I've got):

5. From a management point of view, can you design your own ships or are there predetermined classes that you can build? I personally think it would be awesome if you could design your own ships, imagine a six-deck 260-gun battleship flying your flag as it victoriously destroys an enemy frigate with a single broadside.

I don't think that will be possible! Nobody could maneuvre such a monster!

Walter
17th Aug 2004, 19:23
Yes they can! To the bottom of the sea!:D

Arctic_Wolf
17th Aug 2004, 21:19
King Henry VIII comissioned such a ship, a monster that could carry 3000 troops and have over a hundred cannons I think it was.

On its maiden voyage, the Mary-Rose as it was named, was to sail past the coast in full battle-readyness to impress the court and show off, when it turned to come back round, water gushed in through the lower gun-ports and it sank.

Willmore
18th Aug 2004, 01:22
Well, the Spanish had a 140-gun ship at Trafalgar.

The problem is that ships were built in classes, and types and there was some deviation from the norm, but most of it was in the design, not the amount of guns.


In the end, at the time, I don't think any ship design would have been able to handle a broadside from 150+ gun ship, the ship would simply capsize, and self-destruct.

Arctic_Wolf
18th Aug 2004, 05:13
What about ironclads? the first Iron warships? Where they around in the time frame, i think it would be interesting as I don't think anyone has ever done them before. Though would they only be available to the British?

I don't know much about naval history :o

Willmore
18th Aug 2004, 05:58
Ehhh, it's iffy.

The ironclads didn't start appearing until the 1860s, and even then, there were few of them.

It will all depend on the timeline of the game, if it will go to 1860-1890s, then sure, you might put them on the pinnacle of naval technology tree, but if it's more of a Napoleonic game, with the timeline up to 1820-30s, then it's a strict no-no.

Kai-Arne
18th Aug 2004, 15:45
Originally posted by Willmore
Ehhh, it's iffy.

The ironclads didn't start appearing until the 1860s, and even then, there were few of them.

It will all depend on the timeline of the game, if it will go to 1860-1890s, then sure, you might put them on the pinnacle of naval technology tree, but if it's more of a Napoleonic game, with the timeline up to 1820-30s, then it's a strict no-no.

It WILL go to 1890! I feel it! (and I've read it :D )

Willmore
18th Aug 2004, 18:27
Don't believe everything you read.

"If I'd written all the truth I knew for the past ten years, about 600 people -- including me -- would be rotting in prison cells from Rio to Seattle today. Absolute truth is a very rare and dangerous commodity in the context of professional journalism."

Hunter S. Thompson, American Journalist

I am Canadian!
18th Aug 2004, 21:56
I think it would be interesting to add Ironclads to the tech tree, but I don't see why the British should have such a monopoly on them because although the British first made them, other countries weren't far behind and that's not the way it has to be in the game.

Yes the Santissima Trinidad, the 140-gun ship you were talking about was large, but not as large as they could be. With a larger hull, more sails and more ballast to prevent capsizing, anything's possible. Yes, I admit it would be hard to maneuver but that is a risk I'm willing to take as the King of Great Britain. I just hope that your not limited to predetermined classes of ships.

Willmore
18th Aug 2004, 22:23
Yes, but with the lack of maneuvrability, any 2 74s would easily sink the huge monstrosity.

Despite the amount of guns, not hull of the time can withstand a 32 pound ball. So if 2 74s work together, they can easily rake any ship, and sink her.,

Arctic_Wolf
18th Aug 2004, 22:23
Originally posted by I am Canadian!
I think it would be interesting to add Ironclads to the tech tree, but I don't see why the British should have such a monopoly on them because although the British first made them, other countries weren't far behind and that's not the way it has to be in the game.

I didn't say the UK should have a monopoly I was just wondering if they did, for the time period.


Originally posted by I am Canadian!
Yes the Santissima Trinidad, the 140-gun ship you were talking about was large, but not as large as they could be. With a larger hull, more sails and more ballast to prevent capsizing, anything's possible. Yes, I admit it would be hard to maneuver but that is a risk I'm willing to take as the King of Great Britain. I just hope that your not limited to predetermined classes of ships.

I don't think the Monarch had much control of the UK by the 19th Century, though I'm not sure exactly. I have had a British education but they don't seem to tell you much :mad:

Theres a sort of blury line between monarchy and parliamentry power from the Magna Carta in the 1200's until World War I I wonder how this will be reflected in the game.

Willmore
18th Aug 2004, 22:25
Heh, yeah, besides, that was the time of the nutty professor (King George III) So all the power would have been with the parliament.

Arctic_Wolf
18th Aug 2004, 22:29
Is he the one who tried to get his pet kangaroos elected as MPs?

McLeod
18th Aug 2004, 22:37
the ironclads, imo would be hard to put into the game, cause they are build up totaly different from the ships used before. they had turrets and don't fire bs like the older vessels.

but steam-ships and explosive granades are used much before.

the napoleonic war imo where the last they faught just with sailing ships. after that the ships get new cannons with smaller caliber, but explosiv granades and build as stram ships with iron hulls.

to the top size of wooden ships, i just like to say that the 140 gun trinidad was the biggest every build naval ship in the age of sail (from the number of guns). mayby it would have been possible to build a bigger one, but the money that would have been spend for that, would be better invested in two smaller vessels. those big 3 decker with more than 100 cannons where mostly admirality ships and more for presantation than fighting. they where normally too expensive and every nation had just a few of them.
most ships of the line where just 74 gunners with two gun decks at the end of napoleonic wars. they take place for the earlier used 50 and 64 gunners, which where too weak to fight in the battleline.

Willmore
18th Aug 2004, 22:40
The Crimean war was probably the last with pure wooden ships.

I am Canadian!
18th Aug 2004, 22:52
Originally posted by Willmore
Heh, yeah, besides, that was the time of the nutty professor (King George III) So all the power would have been with the parliament.

First of all, the power was with the Prince-Regent(that is why the era was know as the Regency).

Second, that doesn't have to be the way I run the country.

Third, so you want to play a game where you play the role of constitutional monarch with no power and simply sit on the sidelines of government?

Willmore
18th Aug 2004, 23:30
I know that the virtual power was with the Regent, but he didn't make many decisions, the Parliament had the control under William Pitt the Younger who was actually a Tory, but still was able to consolidate much power.

Secondly, you're making assumptions !!!

Who said you would be the leader, the monarch ?

You might be you, simply controlling the country, making policy, etc, under different styles of government.


Without any knowledge of the game, it is simply pointless to discuss how it should be better !

Czar
19th Aug 2004, 04:52
Originally posted by I am Canadian!
...

2. Can you conduct a shore bombardment?

3. Can you create a combined land/sea battle or an amphibious landing supported by warships?

...

BUMP

Does anyone have any clue as to the answers to these two questions?
This is something that could make (or break) this game.:)

Willmore
19th Aug 2004, 05:04
I doubt it on both points.

Czar
19th Aug 2004, 05:42
Unfortunately - so do I.:(

Kai-Arne
19th Aug 2004, 18:54
Originally posted by Willmore
Don't believe everything you read.

"If I'd written all the truth I knew for the past ten years, about 600 people -- including me -- would be rotting in prison cells from Rio to Seattle today. Absolute truth is a very rare and dangerous commodity in the context of professional journalism."

Hunter S. Thompson, American Journalist

I feeeeeeel it through the force! :D

I am Canadian!
20th Aug 2004, 02:01
Originally posted by Willmore
I know that the virtual power was with the Regent, but he didn't make many decisions, the Parliament had the control under William Pitt the Younger who was actually a Tory, but still was able to consolidate much power.

Secondly, you're making assumptions !!!

Who said you would be the leader, the monarch ?

You might be you, simply controlling the country, making policy, etc, under different styles of government.


Without any knowledge of the game, it is simply pointless to discuss how it should be better !

Ya, I agree on most of your points there, especially the last one.

Ragnar_NZ
7th Sep 2004, 20:20
The million dollar question in my mind is...

can you sail directly into the wind?


Please please please say no. Or let us put wheels on them and call them tanks.

Arctic_Wolf
7th Sep 2004, 20:31
Yes you can, but you have to tack from side to side, in a zig zag pattern. It was very, very arduous and sometimes dangerous but it could be done. In 1588, the English fleet did that in order to get the Windgauge in their battles with the Spanish Armada.

And no tanks until 1918.

Ragnar_NZ
7th Sep 2004, 20:51
Of course, but I meant in the game.

Willmore
8th Sep 2004, 05:30
well ... the smaller ships in the mediterranean still used rowers, to power the ship in the calm, or a headwind.

But you point is taken - wind, and wind-related strategy is extremelly important.

Vic Flange
8th Sep 2004, 18:10
Some brief answers:

Number of ships
Not yet decided. We're assessing at the moment

Formations
Quite possible, but not included at the moment. Again, we're assessing the best way of making things work

Sea storms
There will be different weather and sea states depending on where you are, but nothing severe enough to sink a ship

Land
You'll see it in certain places but you won't bombard the mainland

Wind
Will be a factor and will affect your speed. You can sail into it, but your progress will be severely limited

Ship types
Predetermined classes and too early for ironclads

Boarding
It won't make things overly complex so don't be too concerned

I am Canadian!
9th Sep 2004, 00:06
"And no tanks until 1918."

Tanks were first used by the British at the Somme in 1916.

Otherwise I agree with everything here.

Ragnar_NZ
9th Sep 2004, 07:52
So tacking and taking advantage of the wind is in the game?

Excellent!

How could you have a naval battle without tacking anyway. With such a pretty engine, that would just be criminal! :D

Arctic_Wolf
12th Sep 2004, 22:25
Originally posted by I am Canadian!
"And no tanks until 1918."

Tanks were first used by the British at the Somme in 1916.

Otherwise I agree with everything here.

Actualy the first tank was used at the battle of Flers, I think in august. Then 36 of them made the en-masse attack at the battle of the Somme, on Semptember 15. Though you were right that it was 1916.

Heh, now we have both learnt something.