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View Full Version : Is it just me or.. are some items totally useless?



Ferett
11th Jun 2004, 00:44
I beat the game recently.. and I recall never using any gas bombs, gas arrows, moss arrows, noisemaker arrows, and very seldomly mines. Hell I didnt even shoot many broadheads/water arrows to begin with, and I played all the missions on hard. Did I do something wrong, because I remember gas arrows and the like being precious commodities back in T1 and 2. Maybe its just because of the stupid AI loading bug or something, at least I hopefully think so.

tealsmith
11th Jun 2004, 00:47
Broadhead Arrows = Almost never used
Water arrows = Used a lot
Noisemaker arrows = More then the previous games
Moss arrows = WAY less then previous games.
Fire arrows = More then previous games
Mines = Once I think, in the Cradle
Flashbombs = Occasionally
Gas bombs = Occasionally
Gar Arrows = Occasionally
Oil Flask = Occasionally
Health potion = Only when needed.

There you have it!

Ferett
11th Jun 2004, 01:02
Man I even forgot about oil flasks... hmm I gotta try using those my second time around. Though I'm gonna refuse to actually play T3 again until they release the AI bug fix patch.

koorby
11th Jun 2004, 02:13
Oil flask + Fire is useless.

Gas Arrows are extremely effective. They put down guards with complete silence reliably with one shot, and maintains stealth since no blood.

tootired
11th Jun 2004, 02:48
So far I've only used one moss arrow. I wanted to get by this taffer who was sitting in a chair. For some reason you can't blackjack chair sitters sometimes. Any way I didn't want to waste gas or kill him so I shot him in the head with a moss arrow. He jumps up and is flailing around with his sword and I ran by, grabbed the loot, and ran off. Just as I was leaving the next room the moss wore off and the guy just stops flailing and says, "I coulda' swore something was there." and sits back down. Something WAS there, DUH. How else do you explain getting hit in the head with a moss arrow????!!!!!

Flash bombs are useless except against undead in this game.

Gas is to plentifull.

I HATE niosemakers and refuse to use them.

I keep forgetting about the oil and haven't tried it yet. Gotta do that.

tealsmith
11th Jun 2004, 02:53
Originally posted by koorby
Oil flask + Fire is useless.


I found it helpful in the Cradle, when putting down those... erm... patients.

chris20202
11th Jun 2004, 02:54
Water arrows, I use regularly.

I never used a mine, oil flask, or gas arrow. Used a gas bomb once.

Moss arrows, I use maybe one per mission. Although they are rarely necessary, since you can pretty much just run up behind anyone and knock them out.

Noisemaker arrows, I used one or two early in the game, till I realized they were unnecessary. Usually when I want some guard to move, or get up from a chair, I pick up an object from the room and toss it.

Fire arrows, flashbombs, holy water, only against the undead.

hagatha
11th Jun 2004, 03:35
I took out the "patients" with oil flasks. But that's probably the AI issue, since on Expert you would expect that simply fallling down wouldn't permanently knock out something that had already been dead for 100 years.

EnterTheLlama
11th Jun 2004, 05:47
man u guys are missin out, or reloading too much, ive used em all, i have some problem with forgetting to save to begin with so i make good use of everything i have, even the people who piss you off when they just wont go away, they get the attention of my broadheads.

the oil flasks are pretty funny tho when u turn a corner with a guard after u, drop a flask, and he comes around like hes on ice without skates and knocks his head on the ground and passes out, meanwhile ur just standin there watchin him go by, scratch ur a** and move on:p

caffeine
11th Jun 2004, 05:53
Ive used all of them, gas bombs are my favourite to be honest - if i see a group of guards (clock tower mission before the elevator to the basement)
I havent used a gas arrow yet im saving up on those, water arrows i use constantly, i have not used the oil flasks either. Oh the broadhead arrow ive used as well, not so much as the trusty old black jack :)

LongVin
11th Jun 2004, 07:11
I used gas once maybe twice in the entire game, But I never used the arrows only the bombs which have a bigger radius.

I used broadheads alots because I like killing:)

moss never used them never needed to I had like 20 in the end because i kept picking them up going "I might need these later"

mines I used them against the stone golems in the lair mission just to see what would happen they were pretty effective too they killed all of em.

Fire Arrows I used twice. Once against the ratmen in the sunken citadel and once against the undead in the cradle otherwise they were basically uneffective and just gave my position away. Also the fact they only sold em in one shop that was out of the way from my missions also added to that.

flashbombs I used alot against the undead. I used them against the golems before I could kill em to run by. I used them against human guards once or twice but they are utterly useless cause you cant backstab or blackjack blinded people. If you touch them they lose the blindness.

Oil Flasks were completely useless. They barely ever tripped(only if they are running they trip) over the oil and for it to be effective I have to first use an oil flask then shoot it with a fire arrow as the person is running towards you causing them to trip and burn. If I really wanted the person dead enough it would of been easier to just broadhead them to the back with 1 arrow before they were alerted or just used a fire arrow to begin with.

Noisemaker- the noise radius is to small to be effective and also the fact they only make noise after they hit the wall is a problem they should produce noise in flight to really distract the guards. having the guard take 3 steps over and making him alert doesnt help me it does the opposite.

Cruo
11th Jun 2004, 07:32
Oil flasks were just a novelty, I used them to:
a) Make guards slip all the way down the long steps in the museum and then land on the bottom dead.

b) Make guards slip off the end of the docks into the water and drown.

I used 20 flash bombs in the Cradle, plus some fire arrows and a couple mines... I was just paranoid.

Water arrows came in handy.

Acimus
11th Jun 2004, 09:15
Originally posted by tealsmith
Broadhead Arrows = Almost never used
There you have it!

Those are really useless, if you decide to play in non-lethal way. Useful only if you want to shoot some undead etc. just for fun or something like that.

In previous Thiefs broadhead arrows made a noise when shot to the wall and I used them alot for distracting guards. Now that won't work anymore, what a STUPID balancing *****! Don't the developers get it, that these restrictions they think are maybe good in forcing players to use other items/methods too, totally suck in the name of Realism? Just like that coughing/blinded guards can't be blackjacked/stabbed because they are instantly beating the crap out of player and this forces player to use flash bombs for escaping purpose ONLY.

Ferett
11th Jun 2004, 10:02
Fire arrows I found highly effective on the stonies actually. 2 would take one down quite easily. Gotta try the moss arrow thing though.. but first I'm gonna beat Thief 1 and 2 again for the 20th time, attempting to ghost every mission possible on expert until they patch that godforsaken AI bug fix for T: DS :D

Jonah90
11th Jun 2004, 10:20
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Cruo
[B]Oil flasks were just a novelty, I used them to:
a) Make guards slip all the way down the long steps in the museum and then land on the bottom dead.

b) Make guards slip off the end of the docks into the water and drown.

LOL :D

IrishAg06
11th Jun 2004, 17:31
Well one of my favorite things to do with the mines was lay one in the shadows near an Enforcer, back off and shoot a noisemaker arrow at the mine. Enforcer hears it, runs to where the sound is and BAM, dead Enforcer killed by a mine. It's great fun to sit back and watch this from a distance! :-D

MrWynd
11th Jun 2004, 17:59
first time i beat the game i hardly used any items. then i went back through and had fun messing with the different things. i've made a lot of guards slip and fall on oil on stairs...but they just get back up, i dont see it's use since making it go up in flames really doesnt work very well..


when you're in the area with the statues, throw 3 or 4 mines out...those statues are cool lookin when they explode.

Arcad1a
11th Jun 2004, 18:10
i've always uses flashbombs since im sick of stealthin every day in the streets to gaurds who appear.. just blast and run

i never used a oil flask... tried it a few times on the stairs did not do much for me

barely used moss arrows. but when i did i would just keep shooting and making them grow and grow

something i did in thief 2 was buy alot of moss vine and buy some frogs... then turn a nobles room into a pagan room haha moss ground vines growing and frogs jumping all over funny crap


otherwise there was not enough noise ground to make them usefull

i myself start getting bored and just like shooting people with arrows so i busted out alot of broadheads heh who needs a dagger for a 1v1 fight come at me with my bow

Kaspre
11th Jun 2004, 20:30
Broadhead Arrows = Occasionally (preferred for lethal force)
Water arrows = Rarely
Noisemaker arrows = Never
Moss arrows = Never
Fire arrows = Never
Mines = Tried one out on the funky Pagan beasty
Flashbombs = Never (edit: make that 'Rarely' - escape devices)
Gas bombs = Two (these are great fun, how could I resist?)
Gas Arrows = One (I'll try to find another way next time)
Oil Flask = Never
Health potion = Rarely (and only because I hate to quickload)

So yeah, most stuff you just end up carrying around through the whole game. It gets worse though:

Practice locks = I bought each and every one, just to have the complete collection, but I'll be damned if I can figure out what they've done for me.

Climbing gloves = since you only really need the gloves about three times over the course of the game, and since there are only a handful of optional uses for them, these are mostly a waste. They could have done so much more, or scrapped them entirely. As it is, it just seems that they went to a lot of effort for very little effect on the game.

I ended the game with an absurd amount of money. I think could be the basis for competition in this game, "How much money did you have at the end?" Except you can't sell weapons and items, so its hard to account for them. And worse, the city sections respawn loot, so if you 'farm teh phat lewt' you'll skew your final scorecard. It could still happen, but honor will be required as well as some degree of trust in the claims of others...

EDIT: Hmmm, that could work, actually, if they add a toggle in game options somewhere. I wonder if they can do that in a patch, so you could turn off city loot respawns? That would be excellent! Then I could say "I had 20k loot at the end!" and someone else could say "Try harder, I found 21k!" :D

bravus
11th Jun 2004, 20:41
So, what this thread goes to show is that, although the thread originator might not have used certain things, in the end everything gets used by someone. Even if it's just for amusement (oil on stairs is fun, or with multiple guards in a flat area)!

There seem to be lots of threads that basically say 'here's how to make the game perfect for me and my style'. Two points:

1. everyone has a different style and
2. this game is replayable precisely because you can re-play it in a different style

ChowYunFat
11th Jun 2004, 20:56
I used lots of water arrows & also a few flashbombs & noisemakers when I needed to get away from guards. But I usually managed to use up most of my moss arrows in between missions shooting them at people to make them choke. I think that's just the funniest thing & I can't resist doing it over & over again.

Nightrider
11th Jun 2004, 20:59
Broadhead Arrows = Used often (Kills most enemies in one quick shot to the head)
Water arrows = Used often (Put out torches for an easy "get by")
Noisemaker arrows = Rarely
Moss arrows = Very Rarely
Fire arrows = Very Rarely
Mines = Rarely
Flashbombs = Just once
Gas bombs = Very Rarely
Gas Arrows = Rarely
Oil Flask= Very Rarely
Health potion = Used often

bravus
11th Jun 2004, 21:10
I actually like noisemakers: they're great for avoiding killing and blackjacking. I, too, used to use broadheads to make noise, and miss that ability, but maybe that's one way to spend some of that excess loot.

ThiefFanatic
11th Jun 2004, 21:19
Originally posted by Acimus
Those are really useless, if you decide to play in non-lethal way. Useful only if you want to shoot some undead etc. just for fun or something like that.

In previous Thiefs broadhead arrows made a noise when shot to the wall and I used them alot for distracting guards. Now that won't work anymore, what a STUPID balancing *****! Don't the developers get it, that these restrictions they think are maybe good in forcing players to use other items/methods too, totally suck in the name of Realism? Just like that coughing/blinded guards can't be blackjacked/stabbed because they are instantly beating the crap out of player and this forces player to use flash bombs for escaping purpose ONLY.

I agree. Some of the limitations put into the game were ridiculously stupid. I really miss the option to shoot a broadhead arrow into an object to distract guards. In the other 2 games you could always bash things with your weapons and make a noise to distract too. There have been times when there would be a guard standing directly next to me in T3 and I would smack the torch with my blackjack. I would hear a sound that makes more noise than tossing a cup across the room, but the guard just stands there whistling. Disappointing. Limitations suck. Taking what was great playability and adding to it is good.

Knavery
11th Jun 2004, 21:28
I just wonder if it's a limitation of the engine. I also liked the fact you could shoot arrows into walls. I also liked the fact that I could use rope arrows to get to high places and rooftops and ceilings to keep out of harms way. There just isn't that here in this game. I felt like a true thief in the first two games, but there is something missing in Deadly Shadows. As much I like it, I think a fan community could do better. I hope they release some tools with this.

Knavery

styphon
12th Jun 2004, 00:31
Aside from the black jack and lockpicks, I almost never used any of the gear. I used the fire arrows and holy water to kill zombies in the places they are present, and I used gas bombs/arrows and flashbangs in the last couple missions when I was getting just too lazy to take everyone down stealthfully.

I think for the purist who likes ghosting or stealth knockouts only, most of the gear is useless. There were only like 1 or 2 places I even needed a moss arrow to cover my footsteps. I seemed to remember needing them more in t2.

I did enjoy shooting moss arrows into the faces of guards and watching them choke, but I only did that again, when I was being lazy the last couple misssions.

ChowYunFat
12th Jun 2004, 01:10
I think my favorite to hit with moss are the Hammerite priests. They stagger around saying: "mfgmgrgmgrf....Builder...mrwdgrhfbrgf...Builder..."

DrCBVI
12th Jun 2004, 09:09
Broadhead Arrows = Used semi-often
Water arrows = Used often
Noisemaker arrows = Rarely
Moss arrows = Once, just for comic effect. (well, and to raise Pagan ratings)
Fire arrows = Occasionally
Mines = Occasionally (it's just too fun.)
Flashbombs = Never used them until undead, then semi-occasionally.
Gas bombs = Once, in a muckaround game where I was causing havoc.
Gas Arrows = Once or twice.
Oil Flask= Once.
Health potion = Sometimes.

As the game has gone on, I'm using more and more devices. Not out of any real need, but just for fun.

szatan666
13th Jun 2004, 13:44
I played this game all the way through using nothing but the blackjack. I was saving my arsenal and 50000+ in gold, thinking that I was going to need it eventually (as in maybe at the end of the game), but I never did. The only item I purchased was those climbing gloves. I thought the same thing, "this isn't normal. " Hell, if I decide this game is worthy of another time through, I'll try not to even use the blackjack.

Anyone know how to make this game more difficult than Expert difficulty?

Heero
13th Jun 2004, 13:51
i used the flashbombs loads... perfect for making a break for it when more than one guard is in the room, since the flash disables all of them...

Claude Bauls
13th Jun 2004, 19:35
u guys forgot the best thieving tool of all...holy water.
Nothing kills those patients better in the craddle than the holy water. :D

Bones01
13th Jun 2004, 22:16
Early on I figured items would be hard to get, so I used them very sparingly (if at all). I think I might've used two water arrows through the first handfull of missions. I eventually just got used to playing that way - til I got near the end of the game. I was just ready to finish the story and had all these items that I had never used, so I just went all out from the museum on.

That kinda gave me this weird idea. I killed everyone in the museum, but afterwards, I realized all it took was maybe 1 flashbomb to get through an entire area using no stealth at all. I'd just go running through and let a "train" build up before flashing them. The areas were small enough to make this very easy to do. Anyway, the idea was... is it possible to go through the entire game using nothing but flashbombs with little/no regard for stealth?

DarkFae
13th Jun 2004, 22:26
i horded my items, thinking i was going to need them later.
i'd put out about 2 lights in the game total, there is normally a way to get around without putting them out, just takes more quickloading.

i did miss the rope arrows, those were the most useful in previos game, the gloves kinda take up the slack, but you can't get around corners and get onto roofs, i see ledges in the city that i could just not get to because it was just on the corner.

as for the rest of the things, oil, used once to see what is did.
holy water: couldn't get/carry enough to make it useful
flashbomb: never, reloaded when i was caught, forgot they can be used on undead too
gasbomb: once, to see what it does and that arrows are more useful
mine: tried to kill a zombie in the cradle with it, ended up running like a scared little girl when it got up again
fire arrow: never, i don't kill
gas arrow: once cause i was tired trying to get one of the sitting guards to stand up
noisemaker: never, only had 5 and kept thinking i might need it so i'd find an object to throw or just jump and hide.
moss arrow: never, in fact, i never even saw one of the pagan cobblestones
broadhead: on 2 or 3 beetle things, i don't like to kill so never used them. in the other games they were useful cause the guard could heard them hit stone, a poor man's noisemaker

i found no real use for any stores, completed a set of locks just cause, and found enough things that i never needed to buy anything.

i beat it on expert for every level, waiting for the AI patch to hit so i can try it without even knocking anyone out.

mahlerrd
14th Jun 2004, 02:11
I played the fiirst few missions using tools sparingly, thinking that soon it would get harder and I'd be needing all that hoarded up equipment and cash. I never did.

I slowly loosened and started having more 'fun' and less 'seriousness' in the missions. I still ended up with 20k+ in cash (and that with no serious attempts at respawned-city-loot fishing) and a chock full arsenal of stuff. It took me, in fact, to almost the last mission before I realized why the shops where out of all the stuff they were selling - I was carrying a full load!

Anyway,
Broadheads - used fairly often.
Holy Water - used on undead a few times.
Oil - Fun times watching guards slide off the docks, down steps
Fire Arrows - mostly for pagans
Moss Arrows - occasional use as smotherer, for pagans as necessary, not used once for stealth
Mines - once or twice, they were fun.
Gas bombs - these were fun? I'll try one next play-through
Gas Arrows - I should have used more of them.

I agree they could have done more with the climbing gloves, though I got good use out of mine. It was, though, mostly anciliary stuff - there was never a time when you NEEDED them, nor even many times when having them REALLY helped things a lot. Well, except when you use them to climb out of reach of the guys chasing you. (This, by the way, is where most of my arrows got used - killing the various bowmen so they couldn't pick me off while hanging off a wall).

mahlerrd
14th Jun 2004, 02:25
This seems more or less on-topic. I apologize in advance if it actually isn't.

Another "Tool" I used a lot of was my faction standing with the Pagans and Hammers. I probably saved tons of equipment having them kill each other (That was mostly for fun) and both of them kill the City guards (That was mostly fro game advancement).

For example, the first time through Auldale I squeaked my way around for a while but ended up dancing in front of city guards then running to the pagans and letting them mop up for me. It was even effective against, umm, I don't feel like putting a spoiler in here, so let's just say that technique was effective against even the 'guys' who were in the city near the end. "Smash and kill and smash and kill and smash"

Having watched them in many battles, here's my take on them.

For the 'Regulars', a contest between a Hammerboy and a Pagan will have the Hammerboy taking out the Pagan. Against city guards, I think the Hammerboy is more effective also.

For the magic ones (Pagan Shaman and can't remember what for the Hammers), the nod definately goes to the Pagan Shaman. That green spell thing just kicks complete booty. Ditto for them against a city guard.


The Pagan Shamans are actually pretty effective at taking out Gamal, even. It's a long, hard battle though. Great fun to watch, as I found out in Stonewood Proper or wherever... I stood by the wayside watchign the whole town take on Gamal. It was awesome.

styphon
14th Jun 2004, 07:34
Originally posted by szatan666
I played this game all the way through using nothing but the blackjack. I was saving my arsenal and 50000+ in gold, thinking that I was going to need it eventually (as in maybe at the end of the game), but I never did. The only item I purchased was those climbing gloves. I thought the same thing, "this isn't normal. " Hell, if I decide this game is worthy of another time through, I'll try not to even use the blackjack.

Anyone know how to make this game more difficult than Expert difficulty?

I guess they found a bug where the difficulty is normal no matter what you put it at (with regards to enemy AI that is). so wait for the patch and play again on expert...should be tougher. *crosses fingers*