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TheTerminator
9th Jun 2004, 10:36
Hi,

just wanted to get an overview on what you guys want from the upcoming Thief 3 patch. Its obvious that some minor bug fixes will surely be provided with the patch, but just list down what you would like to see added or improved with this upcoming patch.

Here is what I think should be improved:

- overall performance
- solve the jerkiness issue (please refer to my thread, "multisampling causing the jerky effect ?"
- missing texture surfaces often seen in high places while wall climbing
- guards/civilians voice volume should be slightly reduced
- fix the obvious bug where garret sometimes hovers while carrying a body (in 3rd person view)
- provide the best possible solution to the major weird physics bug where enemies fold in 2 after being blackjacked.... (opinion: make the enemy lean a bit forward after being hit by the blackjack, and just before the physics engine is initiated, instead of letting the body simply drop down like a curtain. That should do the trick !)
- try to give Garrett the ability to lean around corners while in the "Back-to-Wall" state (like in Splinter Cell).
- let the broadhead arrows stick into enemies once they are shot.... like when you fire an arrow into wood. This should give us the ability to retreive the arrows back from the corpses.
- dunno if its possible, but please try to make garrett, guards and other civilians to walk up and down the stairs properly..... producing a good realistic look.... like in Hitman Contracts. (not just simply floating over steps and jerking up and down while doing it).

Thats what I can think of right now.

Thanks for reading and participating in advance.
TheTerminator.

Dash
9th Jun 2004, 10:38
There ain't gonna be a patch. 'nuff said...

TheTerminator
9th Jun 2004, 10:41
Huh ? Why not ? How do you know anyway ?

Dash
9th Jun 2004, 10:42
Aren't you following the news?

Read this.

http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=40094

Guineapiggy
9th Jun 2004, 10:46
Whatever, Dash. Until you know better, don't even bother trying.

Dash
9th Jun 2004, 10:53
Look, I work in the damn industry and believe me, I know what I'm talking about when I say - no patch, no Ion Storm by end of summer. Cling to your hopes if you wish...

Guineapiggy
9th Jun 2004, 11:01
Originally posted by Dash
Look, I work in the damn industry and believe me, I know what I'm talking about when I say - no patch, no Ion Storm by end of summer. Cling to your hopes if you wish...
Yeah, you and all the other prophets of doom. If I was to pay attention to anyone wth such a negative view or everyone who claims 'They're in the business' or 'have sources' this game would never have been released.

Dash
9th Jun 2004, 11:05
It is not a negative view. It's an analysis based on facts, rumors and experience. And this game would have been released anyway, since it was intended for the x-box, and even if it would be utter and complete rubbish Microsoft would still be trying to recap its losses by releasing a crappy product to the fanboys and ignoramuses, who would still buy the game...

I meant Eidos - not Microsoft...

Guineapiggy
9th Jun 2004, 11:08
Originally posted by Dash
It is not a negative view. It's an analysis based on facts, rumors and experience. And this game would have been released anyway, since it was intended for the x-box, and even if it would be utter and complete rubbish Microsoft would still be trying to recap its losses by releasing a crappy product to the fanboys and ignoramuses, who would still buy the game...
By these signs you may know the coming of the lying troll...

Dash
9th Jun 2004, 11:09
Excuse me, did I offend you? No? Then why are you resorting to personal insults?

TheTerminator
9th Jun 2004, 11:10
Anyway, patch or no patch, I would like the members in this forum to participate in this thread. Please post your patch requests here and then we will see.

RpTheHotrod
9th Jun 2004, 11:23
Let us minimize regardless of resolution vs desktop resolution

Stop the "speed x5" gameplay that randomly happens until you reload several times.

Reduce jerky movement.

Destroyer
9th Jun 2004, 11:24
I have also a lot of performance issues ! Even when you turn all the settings low it slows down ! There is surely something wrong ! I wish they will fix this in the patch !

Dash
9th Jun 2004, 11:27
dunno if its possible, but please try to make garrett, guards and other civilians to walk up and down the stairs properly..... producing a good realistic look.... like in Hitman Contracts. (not just simply floating over steps and jerking up and down while doing it).

Out of all the requests you made this one seems the least likely, since this will entail rewriting the whole stair climbing code and creating new animations for characters, so that they place their feet in the correct position.

The only two really important things that the patch should address are - 1. Graphics subsystem performance and 2. The resetting AI bug.

The rest is exactly that - a wishlist. They are not obvious bugs, but minor annoyances and its up to the developer (if he even exists now) to fix that or not bother wasting time...

Agulf
9th Jun 2004, 12:17
If you just release a game and then dont care about what happens to it youre not worthy of releasing a game, at all.

Releasing a game with (Correct me if I'm wrong. Don't have the game, it's not released here yet) no stuff to make mods, no editor, and then state that there will be no patches...?

Pfft. They can't possibly be that stupid, can they?

:rolleyes:

Dash
9th Jun 2004, 12:21
Thief has been released over two weeks ago. If they were planning a patch, we would already have it...

To Agulf

They they can and are. Firing most of the developer team a week after release...

CyberFish
9th Jun 2004, 12:45
Dash: The major, patch-worthy bug was reported LAST SUNDAY. That's really not very long at all. It may not take long to code a patch, but it DOES take a long time to test it rigorously, and to cut through the red-tape and get said patch released. Especially due to the Xbox issue.

I should also point out that we don't know which dev team members have been let go. If they're mostly graphics artists, level designers, etc; they wouldn't have any part in the creation of a patch anyway. It's the programmers who are needed for patching.

Dash
9th Jun 2004, 12:48
True, but I have a nagging feeling that this rather unfortunate story with lay offs is only the beginning of the problems that the people who bought Thief are about to experience...

Agulf
9th Jun 2004, 12:59
It's not released here, in Sweden, yet tho :)

Firing people, eh? Sounds like they just wannt more money for themselves. ;P

I red they screwed things up with the skillsystem... Only normal works if you load... I guess that fix would be on my wishlist...

Btw, Issnt that because they had that other system first, the one where you could choose to play lytha style and stuff (I was exited about that skillsystem :C... Choosing "move no objects" or "close doors" and stuff...)? Maybe they scraped that very early :/...
I don't suppose they just deleted that part of the code?
If they still have it they could easily make a patch out of that....
IF it worked that is.
I mean if they just switched to a "somewhat" like the old and added easy... You don't just throw away working code :/..
Thats like changing clothes four times a day untill you end up with the socks that has holes in them.

Zaccheus
9th Jun 2004, 13:10
This (translated) statement was apparently sent by EIDOS to a german console mag:
"Even though it's pretty protracted to check the AI behavior and we only got a glimps of collecting some samples: [...] We couldn't reconstruct that bug. The number of guards was still the same and the AI still acted as if it was set to "Expert". As a matter of course, Mission Objectives and increased quantity of loot remain unchanged. The first thread to mention this bug was made by someone who edited his .ini file which could have caused those problems."
http://forums.ionstorm.com/index.php?showtopic=211204

Agulf
9th Jun 2004, 13:24
lol @ Eidos.

//. Maybe the bug was not described well to them. It seems that they never checked the damage dealt by enemies, just counted the loot and enemies.

check this out:
http://forums.ionstorm.com/index.php?showtopic=211215


Heres my go at the translation:
--To check a changed AI behavior would take a long time so we could only test some: Both with the described Reload and with the "Entering of a new load zone", these errors could not be reconstructed. The number of guards was the same and AI behavior resembled the status on "expert".
Also the mission objectives remained functioning.
Increased number of loot(?) uninfluenced by it and it worked "expert" (?? :S). The one who created the thread had edited his .ini file and thats probably why he got all the problems.


Something like that. :/

zoomy942
9th Jun 2004, 13:51
i think they should have a way to turn off dynamic lighting

bravus
9th Jun 2004, 14:52
My own wishlist definitely includes fixing the bug with difficulty levels - and I'm more optimistic than Dash that that will happen.

The rest of the stuff I'd ask for would be more detail stuff, and might not happen, but I've kind of been keeping a mental list as I've been playing through, so I may as well share them here. I should say first that I'm loving the game, and rating it as one of my top games ever - up there with the first two Thief games, System Shock 1 and 2 and Deus Ex.
I'd like to get rid of the bright glary blue overlay when you save a game - it's just ugly. And it's a shock to your eyes when they're all dark-adjusted for the game
The fonts in the save/load/equip interface are ugly and cheap-looking. They are in one colour, and need to have some shading at the edges to make them blend with the rest of the screen
I guess I'm comparing with the interface in the earlier games, which was very cool and felt like it existed 'within' the world of the game - the current interface kicks you out of that immersion.

That's really about it. Some engine optimisation would always be welcome, but my gameplay experience is fine, immersive and enjoyable.

I do want to play through on Hard and Expert later, so fixing that bug is crucial.

Guineapiggy
9th Jun 2004, 20:23
Originally posted by Dash
Look, I work in the damn industry and believe me, I know what I'm talking about when I say - no patch, no Ion Storm by end of summer. Cling to your hopes if you wish...
That pie sure looks humble, Dash...

Madigan
9th Jun 2004, 23:07
fix i'd like:
When this game was in developpement, it was said that on the xbox, lockpicking would generate vibration in a rumble pack, and the possibility to look around while lock picking.

in the pc version, i unerstand that not everyone has a joystick with vibration, but it should be supported.

and MOST IMPORTANTLY, the ability to look around... lets say binding the "look left/right" to the "lean keys" while lockpicking.

now that good. you lockpick, use mous or movement keys, quickly look 90 degree left by pressing the lean left key. how hard is that?

Madigan
9th Jun 2004, 23:14
oh oh oh! another thing:

GIVE THE SDK WITH THE PATCH! (separate download of course)

and how about a "always run" check box that we can turn OFF!

hagatha
10th Jun 2004, 03:13
Having just finished the game - make the ending sequence a lot harder.

n8bowa
10th Jun 2004, 03:32
Make it playable for the people that are having performance problems with PC's that double the power of the recommended system specs. That's all I ask for.

TheTerminator
10th Jun 2004, 12:47
BUMP!

Im bumbing this thread up so we can make the best possible announcement on what we really want in the patch. Please be moderate in your request and don't ask too much out of one single patch.

Now that we know for sure the patch is coming, I would like everyone to participate in putting your requests here!

Thank you.
TheTerminator.

DEVASTATOR
10th Jun 2004, 16:26
I'd like to see a few things added to the patch besides the obvious difficulty related bug.

- Increase the cost of goods with higher levels of difficulty. I had way too much cash at the end. When you're forced to get 90% of the loot it should be for a good reason, not just to make the level harder (especially when the loot wasn't all that difficult to get). I should NEED to get 90% of the loot because I'll NEED the money to buy my goods. Expert level prices should be 3 times what normal level prices are. Then, I might be tempted to play the game like its ment to be played - as a stealthy thief - instead of firing away with arrows and such knowing I can afford them at any time. Previous Thief games made you think about whether to fire off an arrow because you might not have the cash to replace it.

- I don't like the way Garret moves. His "bobbing" is far too much. I've started Garret off from a standstill a few times only to see him lurch off to the right or left on his first step. When you're walking on a beam high above, this is a REAL problem.

- I don't like the arrow arcs. They seem to drop way too much for a 30 foot shot. I'm ok with some drop, just not as much as we see. And, allow us to turn off the "blue streak" arrow flight path thingy. Reminds me of when FOX added the "blue streak" to the puck in hockey broadcasts. Its was awful and this isn't much better.

Let's all keep in mind that the "patch" will be a "patch". Not a major re-write of the game or engine. I'm sure we'll have to live with the rag-doll effects for dead bodies and other weird stuff in the game. We should be asking for minor changes, not wholesale modifications.

TheTerminator
15th Jun 2004, 23:20
Bump :)

Destroyer
16th Jun 2004, 11:33
Hey guys I have checked on the framerate that I experienceing ! Well at everything low the fps never goes higher than 40 fps and usually hauls about 16 - 20 !! Can anyone help !

Vast_Girth
16th Jun 2004, 11:56
all i want is one thing:

PLEASE STOP THE CTD's

thankyou

Brother52
16th Jun 2004, 12:52
Only just started playing, but:

1. Fix the difficulty bug, if it exists
2. Be able to select a minimal interface, no fancy gears etc. when selecting items.
3. broad head arrows seam to disappear when fired, I want to be able to reclaim them
4. be able to flatten against a wall when in crouch mode, it's fine if this takes you out of crouch.
5. be able to turn off the always run, this really annoys me, you should either have a run/walk toggle, or a run key and default to walk.
6. The blue save/load screen is annoying as I play in a dark room and it blows my eyes!

That's about it so far, nothing really big or important in the list, the running is annnoying though.

Destroyer
16th Jun 2004, 19:10
BUMP ! Come on guys... for moderators and developers to see this thread it has to be on top !

And P.S. CAN ANYBODY HELP ME PLEASE LOOK ABOVE !

Vast_Girth
16th Jun 2004, 19:19
Originally posted by Destroyer
BUMP ! Come on guys... for moderators and developers to see this thread it has to be on top !

And P.S. CAN ANYBODY HELP ME PLEASE LOOK ABOVE !

try posting in the technical forum

MarcusArelius
17th Jun 2004, 00:36
patch wishlist huh..... I wish for a freaken patch!!! Question: Did this game use beta testers before sending it out to the market. If it did, were the beta testers drunk off there *&^

TheTerminator
17th Jun 2004, 09:25
Destroyer,

your FX5600 is reported to be one of the gfx cards that runs Thief 3 like crap, as discussed in many threads. Thief 3 has several performance bug issues with a some cards, and unfortunately the FX5600 is one of the least supported (compatibly tested) to process the Thief 3 engine. So its quite normal that your framerate runs at such a low level most of the time.

Look at me, I don't even get constant smooth framerates either, and look at my system! If such a system does not run a game like thief 3, then im sorry but the devs need to polish this game out for good (preferably in the patch). Hell, I can even run Far Cry at full settings maxed out and I get better performance than I get on Thief 3.... and Far Cry has by far the best graphics engine I have ever seen in a game (not to mention the highly detailed huge outdoor environments that need to be processed).

Anyway, I must re-emphasize on my slight jerking issue that I wish to see fixed with the next patch. Don't get me wrong, the game runs beautifully at maxed out settings, but these strange jerks are really starting to get to me, and it is definitely an in-game bug that CAN be fixed.

So Destroyer, never mind about the low frame rates for now.... there is nothing YOU can do.... if there is anything that can be done, it has to be done by THEM. Just make sure that you are getting the best performance out of your hardware (i.e latest drivers for your motherboard, soundcard, graphics card, windows updates and preferably a defragmentation every once in a while)

TheTerminator.

UniTom
17th Jun 2004, 09:29
This is wishful thinking; but I would like the city areas to be extended.

TheTerminator
17th Jun 2004, 10:51
Again,

That is too much of a request out of a patch, UniTom. That would require re-coding the story mode, since extending the city would create more places and missions to visit. Anyway, I really think its wishful thinking coz that will surely never happen with just a patch.

UniTom
17th Jun 2004, 12:04
Originally posted by TheTerminator
Again,

That is too much of a request out of a patch, UniTom. That would require re-coding the story mode, since extending the city would create more places and missions to visit. Anyway, I really think its wishful thinking coz that will surely never happen with just a patch.

Which is why I stated "Wishful thinking" :rolleyes:

Darkchyld
17th Jun 2004, 14:42
I agree with Terminators list. I'd like to see run/walk toogled too. Any way to maybe get a NPC to team up on a mission or two? Find and play Calandras Cistern and Calandras Legasy for T1 and T2. Garret does have a scioal life and the way one of the fences keeps comming on to him could open up some interesting possibilites! :) And Garret needs some cool moves, Grab from behind and snap a spine type stuff you know what I mean?

Socio
17th Jun 2004, 15:14
-please fix the AI bug (i want to replay this game again after i finish it!)
-please get rid of the retard guards, where'd they get these guys? The Tavern for example, that guard with the bow sitting right at the table and you can pocket the bottle (that's hes drinking from?!) from right in front of him and he doesn't even notice. Yawn. Maybe assign a guard to the loot, if the loot disappears the guard looks for it etc

-please include an always run toggle! (sore pinky, sore sore sore, stupid shift key)



My wish list:
...the abundance of cash is an annoyance, i just don't spend it. Even on normal, it's too easy.
...there should be guard stations - you know, "fake" doors that only open if a guard comes after you, and from that door 2 or 3 more guards will come to join the pursuit.
...looting the same place over and over, um, where's the security? Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me.

However, i love this game, i think i'm a dog-breathed-taffer at heart. http://frost.bbboy.net/emoticons/sets/misc/loveya.gif