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View Full Version : Heres the eidos plan



Drake51
3rd Jun 2004, 02:26
Eidos has brought us some very good games, series even. Tomb Raider (maybe a bit too many of them but still good), legacy of kain, (you can't find a better story, even though it might make you a bit crosseyed), Deus Ex (Im still finding new story plots), and of course, Thief. But I have found some similarities that give away their plans for the future. First is that these latest installments have been DESIGNED for consoles. From poor hardware compatibility to awkward control settings and strange video settings like bloom and that extra glow around objects. (T: DS) Point two, the content, mainly the story, don't require previous knowledge of the rest of the series. Getting to the point, the target audience is the new generation of gamers. Teenagers that can just plug and play, not those of us who remember when TR1 was the *****. So if you like the games that Eidos puts out, its a pretty safe bet that investing in XBOX or XBOX 2 is theway to go.

Darkaven
3rd Jun 2004, 02:33
Sure, the story of Thief DS doesn't require knowledge of the past 2 games, but you will get kinda lost in some parts if you didn't play them.

Fossa
3rd Jun 2004, 02:37
I'm going to venture a guess and say you're 15 and simply want to put yourself above those "other teens" who are plug and play.

Time to face facts.

If consoles are the wave of the future theres no way to stop them. Frankly, if compatability weren't an issue gaming would be a lot more enjoyable, but "typical" console games are lacking depth, story, and meaning. A crossover encorporating the best of both PC and console gaming would be a welcome development.

Moreover, I REALLY disagree with everything you said regarding Thief.

It is by no means a console only game, while doable, without a real keyboard the game is horrid (try it and see) as changing between tools is painful as are some of the controls. The game is definatly PC oriented.

Furthermore, regarding the storyline, yes, you don't need to know much of the previous two, but if you recall thief 2 didnt require you to play thief 1.

Lets be honest, if the new game required thorough knowledge of the previous two, how many customers did they just lost and how many fans at that? Who is going to play through two stale games with outdated engines as a prerequisite to playing a fun new game? Almost no one. But how many people do you think are going to pick up a Thief Gold/Metal Age bundle pack from the bargain bin after trying the new one? Plenty.

Required knowledge of the series would cut down on potential customers while not really giving anything to the true fans, only the anal ones. For those of us who have played the first two, extensivly, there are tons of fun references and explanations.

Anyone else find the fishermans journal talking about the Cetus project from the metal age? Thats just the tip of the iceberg in terms of references which is all a REAL fan would hope for or want.

If knowledge of the series were required, they would lose so many fans that the sales would flounder, reviews would stink, and the game wouldn't receive the reputation it deserves tarnishing the whole series.

Your words are false. Your notions illconceived. I encourage you to think before posting in the future.

MrWynd
3rd Jun 2004, 02:50
I'm mostly a PC gamer. Still I think integrating Pc and console gaming can only be a good thing. It raises production values in most cases.

Quillan
3rd Jun 2004, 02:58
I honestly can't think of ANY sequel game that requires knowledge of the previous title(s) to play. It always helps, but every single publisher wants to expand their market, and doing so would restrict it rather than expand it. Expansions usually require the original game, but not an outright sequel. Fossa's right, there are tons of references in this one, that you just won't catch if you haven't played the first two games. I found Ramirez's tomb in the catacombs. His inscription reads <i>Loved His Burricks</i>.

OuchWACHit
3rd Jun 2004, 08:18
XBOX sux........
Kids nowadays are too easily pleased, and are equally easily entertained..........

We've heard this song and dance so many times.............
"The wave of the future for years to come...."

Isnt that what they said the cabbage patch doll...or how about the tablet PC market that was rumored to eventually crush PC sales as "the wave of the future" rolled on through.

Most people find, As you mature and have to buy the s**** yourself..you wont be so eager to blow 300 bucks on an Xbox...instead of something that has an actual future value or a real use, other than a dust bunny dating service.

Lets get it right now...
Pc's are the wave of the future......have been for many years and will continue to dominate over kiddieconsoles for many more years too come.

Without PC's console games would ceast to exist.
Come to think of it... a console system wouldnt exist either, if it werent for the plethora of new and improved technology that we all love so much, that is literally owed to the PC's advancement.

the future and wave of the PC is what has brought console gaming to to where it is now.



And if the day comes when a console system will become a more important tool than the PC is..........I will

Just friggin with ya...That aint never gonna happen :)

Princess_Frosty
3rd Jun 2004, 08:26
Moving consoles and PC games together is a STUPID and awfull move, the Xbox is evil in my eyes, its causing developers to develop on platforms which cross over to consoles with little to no change needed, meaning profits from a console game with little extra work.

But its bringing all the restrictions of a console game to a PC game, which is basically far superiour in every way possible, why should PC games suffer the xbox ristrictions, especially the fact that thief was n00bed up so that the 8-9 year olds button bashing thier xbox could actually play it.

It really gets on my nerves, and who's behind it all, microshaft, it had to be didn't it...

Thief 3 is a decent game (so far) but it could have been SO MUCH better had it been more like the origionals, such a shame considering that its almost definatly the last game in its series :(

What a waste of the ultimate opertunity.

Drake51
3rd Jun 2004, 09:06
Okay, I think you all missed my point, somehow. Here it is. Blunt as possible. It looks like Eidos is gradualy phasing out its pc platform and consentrating on console only games. That's what Atari is starting to do.

MajorHealy
3rd Jun 2004, 10:40
It looks like Eidos is gradualy phasing out its pc platform and consentrating on console only games. That's what Atari is starting to do.

Eidos (the development shops that Eidos uses, anyway) and nearly everyone else will produce games for whatever platforms are popular/profitable. I'm not sure what the stats are, but if PC gamers are in the minority under console gamers ... well, them's the breaks.

It's frustrating from my perspective as well, as a die-hard PC gamer - limiting PC users based on XBox capabilities seems cheap. I'm all for pushing the PC envelope where possible.

But I think it's a tough sell to get a development house to expand a large-scale PC game to utilize technologies superior to consoles. When you compare the additional development, testing, and maintenance costs of customizing a game for PC versus dual XBox/PC development, the figures probably won't work in PC users' favor - and having development houses developing exclusively for PC's cuts out a huge market share for them.

All that being said, though, I believe Thief DS was a decent compromise between XBox/PC. Yeah, there are some annoyances that _may_ have been "fixed" on the PC side with more custom PC development, but, unfortunately, it's unrealistic to expect that companies will perform such additional development for the minority of its customers (if, indeed, PC gamers are slipping toward minority).

Does anyone have any stats on the volume of game purchases between console brands and PCs? That'd be an interesting read...

The0ne
3rd Jun 2004, 13:19
Well said Fossa i totaly agree.

Specialy on the part about needing to know the story line from Thief 1 & 2. I played both parts so it isnt that, but its just silly, It isnt designed only for the ppl that loved the previous Thief games, its designed to attract new fans(witch is a good thing)!

Kokopelli
3rd Jun 2004, 14:54
IMHO, PC games are here to stay. Some companies like EIDOS and Activision may phase out their PC product line, but that will leave higher profits for companies like Ubi and EAGames. There too many genres the PC offers that consoles fail to reach the standards. Two that come to mind are RTS and Simulators. This does not mention that consoles kill the modability of the game. Sure the consoles may allow that one day, but are you going to invest in the extra HW to allow you to mod game?

Sneak
3rd Jun 2004, 15:20
Hey Fossa,
Yeah, I found that journal that talked about the Metal Whale swimming by with the name Cetus Amicus on it. I got a smile out of that. :)

Also guys, on the console thing, it is my uhderstanding that developer can write a game concurrently for the PC and the X Box. Though they do have to account for the lower specs of the X Box. That tells me that the X Box is basically a PC.

For the Gamecube and PS2 I understand a serious port is in order to go from them to PC or vice versa. So did Willie Bill just make an inexpensive PC for basically games and fixed it like other consoles so the sale of games really pays for it? Any thoughts? Would be curious.

Lets see, a bigger hard drive, add a mouse and mini keyboard to an X box and what would ya have?

Darkaven
3rd Jun 2004, 15:24
Originally posted by Sneak
Lets see, a bigger hard drive, add a mouse and mini keyboard to an X box and what would ya have?

What would you have?
An xbox with a bigger hard drive, a mouse, and a mini keyboard of course.

HOC
3rd Jun 2004, 15:50
the biggest flaw to the pc game market right now is the lack of a standard with its hardware (and in some cases software). and that's something that will never be seen. so can we really blame developers for choosing a one size fits all console that'll help reduce costs while games are currently taking millions of dollars to make?

no.

i too am a die hard pc gamer. but i'm not so blind to believe that pc gaming is perfect. it would be nice if the gaming market wasn't taking the same route as tv and movies...making the products more "child friendly". but that's something we pc gamers are just going to have to deal with unless a standard comes around.

but don't expect 50,000 pc gamers to stop and say "hey, this amd cpu and nvidia card and logitech KB should be the standard!" hell, some can't even learn how to check their own system specs. or understand the simple concept that different hardware may mean different results for different games...and then decide to get all angry and post insults because of it.

hate to say it. but get used to it.

Thaao
3rd Jun 2004, 16:25
Originally posted by Drake51
Okay, I think you all missed my point, somehow. Here it is. Blunt as possible. It looks like Eidos is gradualy phasing out its pc platform and consentrating on console only games. That's what Atari is starting to do.

Actually, Atari was originally a console only company. They've recently (a few years ago,) started branching into the PC market. Are they starting to back out of it now?

Caitiff
3rd Jun 2004, 16:40
Originally posted by Sneak
Hey Fossa,
Yeah, I found that journal that talked about the Metal Whale swimming by with the name Cetus Amicus on it. I got a smile out of that. :)

Also guys, on the console thing, it is my uhderstanding that developer can write a game concurrently for the PC and the X Box. Though they do have to account for the lower specs of the X Box. That tells me that the X Box is basically a PC.

For the Gamecube and PS2 I understand a serious port is in order to go from them to PC or vice versa. So did Willie Bill just make an inexpensive PC for basically games and fixed it like other consoles so the sale of games really pays for it? Any thoughts? Would be curious.

Lets see, a bigger hard drive, add a mouse and mini keyboard to an X box and what would ya have?

Actually that was the plan for the xbox all along for the MS Studios games. Most of them had to change under 100 lines of code for them to port to the Xbox from the PC. MS isn't stupid when it comes to things like that, we may hate em for the way the steer the market, but they ain't stupid.

However much some of us may want to hold back the cross development like with T:DS, its more proffitable for companies to design it that way. Two markets for about the same amount of dev funds, and that is the smart thing to do, since that is what most companies are trying to do. Make money.

OuchWACHit
3rd Jun 2004, 22:09
I agree with pretty much everything said here...

It does make more sense fiancially to develope games that can easily be used for different playing formats if youre not so concerned about what you put your name on, and more concerend about a fast turn around.....
But On the other hand......it doesnt make much sense to lose customers and potential sales just because its easier that way.

I would personally pay twice as much for a good quality PC game that was designed to cater to my specific needs(PC use), and what I expect out of the game based on the previos titles in the series...
I would have payed 100 bucks for the game that I thought TDS should/could have been.

I want the best graphics and enjoyable . lengthy gaming experience for my money that I work hard for...........If I wasnt concerned with the getting what I paid for then I would settle for the meager graphics and gameplay that a console system offers.
I wouldnt have spent thoiusands on a rig to play games on.

I use a PC. I play games on a PC because I like having the choice to make changes and tweaks to the game as I see fit....to turn stuff on and off when I want. to make my investment go even further.
I like the fact that I can run a game with all of the settings up .....H*ll,..I paid good money for it, I should have a choice, and not be forced fed a game that was designed for the console.

IMO, the Ion staff and Eidos were very decieving in the marketing of this game,and practically commited fraud in doing so.

I mean what was the point of taking on the developement of a game that was an obvious favorite choice to many of us (and probably most of the staff) to continue the series with,....and then do a rushed, *****y job of it.
Im sure everyone that surfs these forums would have waited if the marketing ploy would have been a bit more honest and told us that the game is not complete, and that it would take a month or 2 longer to ship. Because theres no way that this game was complete when it shipped,...based on my personal experience with it thus far.

I mean it like, the team just rushed to slap it all together for shipping before the breakup of the team, regardless of wether it was complete or not.
It seems they just dont take pride in what they design anymore.
And IMO, thats the sole reason why so many of them die off so soon.

Boruna
3rd Jun 2004, 22:49
Gee I remember when they said "Macs are the wave of the future." Every one will own one.

Fossa
3rd Jun 2004, 23:07
Gee, I remember when they said "CDs are the wave of the future." Everyone will own one.

And, looking over at my game collection, forgive me if I'm hard pressed to find a cartridge or a 5 inch floppy lying around. (They're there, they're just burried and neglected).

Its about functionality.

"Whos going to go out and pay $300 bucks to buy a console and play a game".

Well, I just bought a video card that cost almost that much, throw in ram upgrades, CPU upgrades, Soundcard upgrades, inevitable power supply upgrades.... damn, suddenly $300 doesn't sound so bad for gaming.

To date I am a diehard PC gamer. Don't get me wrong. I don't own a console (Though I did borrow my friends XBox to play Halo through on legendary). However, if we could have the same QUALITY games we have on PCs come on out consoles with good control, I'd stop upgrading my PC today and use it for non-gaming purposes only. Period.

Yes, console games have some problems. In general the controls are "less artistic" and the story lines in the stereotypical game have been dumbed down. But....

Steel batallion
Halo
Halo 2
Ninja Gaiden

...need I continue? My point is, it is possible to make good games for consoles.

You people are looking at this in terms of black and white.

What I'm talking about is a happy shade of gray where we have the same great games without the compatability issues, the hardware issues, or the price tag.

A computer that runs Thief 3 with the same settings that the X-Box has by default will cost you around 4 times more EASILY if you do the extra labor and build it yourself. And thats NOT including the monitor mind you.

Look at the forums here, how many people are complaining about random reboots, CTDs, and other system related bugs stemming from their PCs? Ok, now how many are Xbox related?

If the X box had a full sized, fully functional keyboard and an optical mouse and the games designed had that in mind, I'd be sold, 100%.

Can any of you honestly tell me you like paying more and dealing with compatability issues? You naysayers are focusing entirely on the negative ignoring the fact that the bad things can and will change with time.

Hell, I'm just waiting for the next-gen Xbox that can run normal windows utilities including internet access.

Darkaven
3rd Jun 2004, 23:25
Well said, very well said.

By the way, they DO have keyboards an mouses for the xbox.

OuchWACHit
4th Jun 2004, 00:23
Originally posted by Darkaven
Well said, very well said.

By the way, they DO have keyboards an mouses for the xbox.
Really? I didnt know that.
How exacly would you use them on an Xbox. Ithought that the only input on a console was the joypads,ect.

Squid
4th Jun 2004, 00:25
You know.... I remember when Atari invented the console. Anyone still own an Atari 2600? Does yours still work, like mine does? Heck, do any of you actually go into an arcade anymore?

I'm not a PC gamer; I'm not a console gamer.... I PLAY VIDEO GAMES. Have played them for pratically all of my life. Yes, there are differences in the games, mostly from the controls used to operate them. Yes, the console market gets about 4 dollars for every dollar the PC market gets, currently. These things run in cycles.... just wait until Half Life 2, Doom 3, and The Sims 2 hit the shelves, and then everyone will be saying that consoles are dead, PCs are the way of the future, etc.

I know what's being developed, I know what's coming down the pipe.... both PCs and Consoles are going to radically change before the end of this decade. Mark my words, Cell chip technology will change computing and gaming as we know it.

Squid

Kerghan
4th Jun 2004, 00:53
PC exclusive games might actually get an edge over consoles. There are 'consoles' in developement that will play PC games (and only PC games supposedly) on either your TV or your computer monitor. The installation/patching process is done automatically so those who just got off the small bus won't have to worry about the confusing process of installing a program. So far, Apex Digital and Alienware have released information about the platforms they are developing using this technology. Apex is making one with lower end hardware for a reasonable price ($500), and Alienware is using much better hardware for a price that would make any parent of a console kiddy cringe ($1,800).
More info here (http://general.gamerfeed.com/gf/pr/5056), but if you have a subscription to PC Gamer you can check it out in the June magazine.

If the developers of these new systems know what they are doing, they better have some kind of keyboard/mouse system for the controls!

Huntress
4th Jun 2004, 02:25
Here's the catch however: Only DISCover offers true console capabilities for unmodified PC games. Users simply drop a game CD into a console and start playing using DISCover's Drop & Play technology. (bold letters by me.)

So where does that leave the modders, etc.? Doesn't seem like a good answer either in regard to the PC gaming community. Ta and Good Hunting!

silo
4th Jun 2004, 03:58
I have to agree with those who have said previous gaming knowledge in the series would help. I never played Thief 1 or 2, I was a Tomb Raider junkie. I am having a bit of difficulty figuring out what I'm suppose to be doing.

Quillan
4th Jun 2004, 04:23
Playing Thief 1 or 2 really isn't necessary. But, it sounds to me like you don't have a lot of experience with STEALTH games. Sneakers require a totally different mindset than shooters or adventure games do. Prior experience with Thief is only going allow you to catch the references.

harishreddy
4th Jun 2004, 05:11
I have both the xbox and a kick ass alienware PC(except for the cheap video card..Im waiting for prices to drop...+ I stopped building my own(ground up) a while back)

Some games are great on consoles, some are better on the PC. It is unfortunate that EIDOS butchered TDS the way that they did just so that they could have a wider market by apealling to console gamers. This is not a series that lends itself well to that environment. I understand their reasoning though.

They wayto make up for this is simple, release the SDK + editor. let the community enhance the pc version until it is at the level is should be. They will still get their wider base form the console market. The will also encourage the PC players to continue buying their stripped downcrap because we know it will be enhanced by the community. Everybody wins.

The people who will only play small superficial levels will still be there but so will the in depth guys who want a fully fleshed out and imersive game.

Give us the tools, EIDOS will lose nothing, only gain. I still play thief 2 because of the add on levels. When Thief 4 comes out, I will only buy it if I know that a) it will be made only for the pc OR B) if the devs let the PC community enhance the game.

EDIT

I am a ghost. I do not exist. I am a rumour on the lips of the paranoid.A fiction of the shadow government. A dream of the insane. A nghtmare to the greedy. Fear me, for I am not there.