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View Full Version : I sure miss one thing from the old thief games



rob444
2nd Jun 2004, 23:51
Rope arrows! Sure, I've not completed the game yet, but I'm quite positive that I wont see any rope arrows. Why were they removed? I really liked them, you could get up on high places like balcony's etc ( sure you got gloves now but there are places that is made out of wood too you know :rolleyes: ).

oysterboy
3rd Jun 2004, 00:57
After using the climbing gloves a while in the city, it seems that the main reason rope arrows were taken out was so you wouldn't be able to see how poorly the levels are designed - ie. everything above 1 story in the city is open/unmodeled area, so obviously the developers don't want you to be there.

The first time I managed to climb on top of a roof in South Quarter, it looked like something out of Dark City - everything past the outside wall is outer space. I was even able to get on the other side of most of the purple-fog-y zone changes. This also happens if you die next to an outside wall - your body will fall through the wall into outer space.

Freeloader
3rd Jun 2004, 01:35
unfortunately, the reason the both rope arrows and scouting orbs never made it into the game was that the team could not work out how to program them into the engine. :(

oysterboy
3rd Jun 2004, 02:02
Aha! That answers another problem I have with the climbing gloves: the 'they couldn't figure out rope arrows' argument implies the climbing gloves were a tacked-on feature, which explains why the deformation is all wrong on Garret's arms while he's climbing (ie. they didn't take the time to make his shoulders not cave in / deform while climbing, and his arms look like twisted up bendy straws). The deformations on the rest of the player animations (using the blackjack, etc) seem fairly polished in comparison.

Neutrino64
3rd Jun 2004, 02:39
Originally posted by Freeloader
unfortunately, the reason the both rope arrows and scouting orbs never made it into the game was that the team could not work out how to program them into the engine. :(

I highly doubt that. It was most likely just a design decision.

MrWynd
3rd Jun 2004, 02:47
i think having people up on the rooftops to travel through town would take away from the things you pick up on walking through the streets. I do think the gloves should get more use, but I'm not unhappy with the design.

Fossa
3rd Jun 2004, 02:47
You think the levels in Thief:DS are unmolded?
Someone never went rooftop pioneering in the original two. Oh the screens I could show (if I had pic hosting).

BrokenArts
3rd Jun 2004, 03:49
Sorry, but, they could NOT get the rope arrows to work. I heard it from Digi at TTLG, remember, he was invited to ISA. He talked to them about it. They just could simply not get it to work.

If they could of gotten the rope arrow to work, they would of done so.

rob444
3rd Jun 2004, 22:20
Hm too bad :(

I've been scouting different parts of the cities to find secrets on the roofs with the gloves and I've found 4 places, one is in black market in south quarters (one zone from your house), was a pretty cool place actually :D

There are much more I guess, it's just hard to find them and to find the walls you can climb, you will also find a lot of map bugs, already discovered some.

I wish there was better rewards for all these secrets places, I dont want gold and stuff, I got like 10 000 and thats enough, I rarely go shopping anyway. :/

Mnemonic
3rd Jun 2004, 22:38
While I definitely exploited, er, used the heck out of rope and vine arrows in the first two Thief games, they really were pretty unrealistic. Especially once I learned how to re-use the arrows over and over again.

How can Garrett repackage the "rope" over and over again?

I know, I know, scout orbs linked to the mechanical eye were kinda unrealistic too, but wait a minute, they weren't in the latest thief either!

All I'm saying is it's no bother that we didn't get the exact same equipment list as seen in the older games. I am certainly enjoying what I have available now...

Thiefinthenight
3rd Jun 2004, 23:20
LOL No place that you would even need rope arrows in this version. No where to climb to.

BrokenArts
3rd Jun 2004, 23:21
I think change is good for the game, I don't know about you, I would be bored if things didn't change. Really who knows what undiscovered areas we can get into, learn more about the climbing gloves. I am still learning about them, I like them myself.

Change is good, change is needed, games evolve. The game has great graphics for the most part, it is a dark game. I don't want it bright and shiny, no. It is Thief, and the majority of fans think so too. It could of been a total flop, we are lucky, and lucky to have another Thief game...............period.

Corrosion
4th Jun 2004, 22:08
They could've used the thief 2 engine !:eek: imagine that!

Fossa
4th Jun 2004, 22:29
My biggest problem with the new engine and perhaps by extension the climbing gloves is definatly how sloppily mantling was done. For those who aren't in the know, mantling is when you grab a ledge and do a pull up to get on top of it. Its almost impossible to describe what precisely is wrong with it, the whole thing is just sloppy.

It fails at times it absolutly should work, I question how many fans of the first two games have fallen to their deaths because they tried to drop down and grab onto a ledge. Whoops! Can't do that anymore! Perhaps even worse is when it randomly kicks in. Ill try to jump and randomly mantle onto something 10 feet to my left or right only to immediatly fall off making noise and alerting the guards. My ALL TIME FAVORITE though is when I was between two bookcases, went to mantle on to one, and found myself magically climbing onto the one behind me. While that particular time it didn't badly screw me up, it just goes to show how sloppy the whole system is, vastly inferior to what we had with the older engine.

Now, add in the fact that there are many times which the gloves wont allow you to mantle with after climbing a wall (Keepers council room for example) that are just maddening. The inability to go from one stone texture to the next or from a stone texture on one wall to a wall a single engine-unit offset from it.... Its infinitily frustrating for those of us who prided ourselves on the "acrobatic" nature of the original two. God I miss Thief 2's engine, I could really go for some 30 foot leap-across-the-whole-damned-street mantles right about now.

BrokenArts
5th Jun 2004, 00:10
Seems more people have had better luck with the gloves, I say don't dismiss them too quickly. We have only just begun to explore all options and avenues with these gloves. I have hung around the forum long enough to know, there are people that will NOT give up trying new things. This thread, if you haven't already seen it, is but one example. Check it out. Interesting.
Advance climbing.
http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?t=83992

jrsein
5th Jun 2004, 00:21
Wow some people are way to anal about the animations. They aren't that bad (at all.)

oysterboy
5th Jun 2004, 05:06
Originally posted by jrsein
Wow some people are way to anal about the animations. They aren't that bad (at all.)

No, they aren't that bad - I only said that the climbing animation was bad -in comparison- to the rest of them. And it's not the animation, really, it's the model deformation. They just took the ladder climbing animation and rotated the arms 90 degrees, without regards to what bizzare shape this twisted the model's arms into.

Check it out - go to 3rd person while climbing and look at Garret from above. His shoulders/armpits are squashed flat as pancakes. It's a pretty sloppy shortcut, which just leads me to believe the climbing gloves were a fairly last-minute decision.