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View Full Version : XP, Intel= co-conspirators



jim2112
20th Mar 2004, 14:34
Try to keep short to maximze attention spans on old subjest

My specs are from Belarc Advisor

1)OS - Windows XP Home Edition Service Pack 1 (build 2600)

2)Processor info - 1.80 gigahertz Intel Pentium 4
8 kilobyte primary memory cache
512 kilobyte secondary memory cache

3) System model - Gateway E-4000 4000828

4)Main Board - Board: Intel Corporation D845GRG AAA81583-304
Serial Number: ABRG30841024 Bus Clock: 100 megahertz
BIOS: Intel Corp

5) RAM - 254 Megabytes Installed Memory

6) Intergrated Display - Intel(R) 82845G/GL/GE/PE/GV Graphics Cntroller [Display adapter]

7) Intergrated Sound - SoundMAX Integrated Digital Audio
Unimodem Half-Duplex Audio Device

...If info is missing please let me know...

My woe's - TDP - Loaded from Cd fine. Double click to start game and...Games seems good until I click "play" on the tool buy site.
Screen goes blank (black) computer re-starts (this has happened every time)

My woe's(continue) - T2 - loaded from CD fine, Start game and it kicks me back to desktop or re-starts computer.

I use to be able to run these games, i dunno

Thanks in advance

bravus
20th Mar 2004, 16:01
Hmm, that is odd. You say you used to be able to run them: on this same computer, with the same configuration? What has changed?

While it's not universally fatal - and if you were able to play them before it seems OK - integrated audio and video has caused problems for people in the past.

Apart from that, all I can suggest is the usual 'get the latest drivers for everything' approach.

jim2112
20th Mar 2004, 16:25
Far as I know, I have the latest drivers. Does T1 and T2 have patches avaliable (Looking glass is naturally gone and the eidos support is lagging. T1- is the 1.33 ver. and T2 is 1.18 version.

Video and audio drivers are updated.

Whats this compatability option? r-clicking on each games icon on desktop there is a compatability check box for Win 95/98 etc...

Have not used this option what is it? and is the use straight forward?

tried re-installing with the "lgntforce" from windows run

Still get black screen and system restart though...

I know this is an old issue,...

I thank you for your suggestions

Stile451
20th Mar 2004, 16:54
You can go to the video options and turn off hardware. It'll look bad but it should work.

Those are the latest versions for Thief 1 and Thief 2.

You could try compatibility modes and see if that will help you. Basically, they're options to have windows XP run the programs as if they were on the operating system you choose under compatiblity mode.

jim2112
20th Mar 2004, 18:23
Ok - update on T1, T2

Started both with inserting CD
Started both with desktop icon

Both still acting up., T2 immediately goes to MS XP error report
Wont even show the Eidos startup
(a note on this , when error report was sent i clicked on one of the links for more information
Here is what I wrote down: Error Signature XP error report
Appname: thief2.icd Appver: 1.9.0.0
Mod name: thief2.icd ModVer: 1.9.0.0
Ofset: 001ee854

...Don't know what all that means, but there it is, Does anyone else know?

Started T2 with Win98 compatability mode on --only black screen like before C-A-D says Thief2 not responding
Went into TDP and turned hardware off in video options (I have intergrated intel chipset)
TDP went all the way up to the point of actually starting training or a new game and it freezes. I have to C-A-D out to end task on the game itself. Guess it's stuck in a loop

...Anyone?, Anyone? Bueller? Bueller?

Mr. Perfect
20th Mar 2004, 19:04
If it's reporting 254MB of system memory, then you've got a 2MB on-board video card(ram comes in 256 sizes). I'm not sure that a 2MB video is enough to run Thief.

If you're planning on getting Thief 3, or any other new games you'll definetly need a new video card anyhow. I don't know what you'd be willing to spend on one, but a Radeon 9600 Pro is about $130 these days.

jim2112
20th Mar 2004, 23:17
If thats the case I would be the first to agree...


...But! I have ran all these games before, and FM's and even Simcity4
Getting a new vid card might solve the problem.

But the problem will never be identified either just covered by more RAM

Mr. Perfect
21st Mar 2004, 00:55
What software and hardware changes have you made since you last got it to play right?

jim2112
21st Mar 2004, 02:06
Thats a real kicker:

It was over 8 months ao that I last played all the Thieves games.

How much does XP update in an 8 month period? Alot!

Peter_Smith
21st Mar 2004, 23:14
Search other recent threads for XP problems. They may provide a clue. Are you installing with the flag -lgntforce? If not, read about that and try it.

Apparent video problems can be related to audio. Try running Thief 1 disabling hardware video (use software rendering) first and then disabling hardware audio second. That may give you a clue what component is causing it. Thief 2 does not have sofware video, so that can't be used to check it.

I would suspect integrated video (especially) and integrated audio (maybe) to be the root cause of your problems. Many people have trouble with these things and Thief. Grey Mouser has posted fixes for Intel integrated video, but I cannot find them. Run DXDIAG and store all the DirectX configuration information into a text file. e-mail that to Grey Mouser and see if he can help.

Check to see if your motherboard has an AGP slot. If it does, I would encourage you to not fight the integrated video but to buy a real video card. If your computer had a Radeon 9600 Pro or better, it would (a) probably work now, and (b) probably be suitable for Thief 3 when it comes out (after a memory upgrade). If you do upgrade, make sure you can and do turn off the on-board features in the BIOS.

I say probably. There are so many things it could be, that I really don't know. I would be best to find the root cause, if you can, before upgrading in shotgun fashion.

Guineapiggy
22nd Mar 2004, 00:54
A few things:

256mb, (Especially SD or RDram) running under XP is cutting it fine with any game, though I doubt this is the problem.

Intel is, as previously stated, not a remotely workable VPU for any gamer. I doubt your PC has an AGP port, fact is it seems to be running SDRam if I read your specs right. The best you can get is, (I think), a GF4MX440 (64mb ram)

As a last resort, try checking CPU temperature, or see if you can still flash your bios. (Check manufacturer's website)

jim2112
22nd Mar 2004, 01:28
What I got so far--

Sent message to Grey Mouser about e-mailing the DXdiag .txt file

Have used the video options in TDP to turn off the hardware but game still would not let me in after loading

T2 never got past the XP error message that T2 has a problem...Do I want to send an error report?

This main board has one AGP port

I have flashed BIOS as per manufacturing instructions

I installed game with lgntforce added - no difference

Thanks Gamers for the input - I probably will get a new graphics card, but I would really like to know why the games do not wrok now when everything used too, perfectly.

I will wait for message from Grey Mouser and see where it goes.

Guineapiggy
22nd Mar 2004, 01:32
Sorry to hear it man. If you're open to suggestions look for:

A budget option: A GF4 MX420/440/460
A cheap option: A GF4 TI4200
A moderate option: An old 9500pro (Best bang per buck)
A similar performance level without ocing etc but higher cost: A 9600, 9600pro or 9600xt

Stile451
22nd Mar 2004, 05:32
Originally posted by Guineapiggy
A budget option: A GF4 MX420/440/460
NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO

If you want to be playing any new games coming out this year don't get a Geforce 4 MX because it doesn't have the hardware capability that is necessary to run the games. You will not be able to play Thief 3 with a Geforce 4 MX.

Games that are already out that will never work on a Geforce 4 MX are Deus Ex: Invisible War, Prince of Persia: Sands of Time, and Far Cry(I believe).

Others to avoid are the Geforce 5200(because it's a bad card for gaming) and the Geforce 5600(not that it's a bad card, it's just that it's not worth the price tag. That and it's loud). Stay away from the SE versions of any ATI card as well.

To confuse you even more, ATI's XT models are more powerful/better than the other models. Some nVidia card makers are using XT as their lower grade models.


As for what you should get:
Any Geforce 4 TI or FX card(excluding the exceptions noted above).
Any Radeon 9500 Pro or higher(except for SE versions).

Guineapiggy
22nd Mar 2004, 10:55
Dude, he has 256mb ram in XP, what can he run?

Stile451
22nd Mar 2004, 18:35
Ram is cheap, two video cards is not(which is what will end up happening if he gets any card I've listed as an exception).

jim2112
22nd Mar 2004, 22:12
Ok, I just ordered more RAM 512 Meg That will give me 512 in one bank and 256 in another both are 2100's

We will see where that leads me. It still isn't gonna work though

I'm a pessamist(sp?)

Peter_Smith
23rd Mar 2004, 01:17
You are right. It probably won't work. There is no reason to exect that it would work, because you still have the video system issue or whatever it is that was causing the game to crash. The RAM should help you only when all other systems are working and you want to run an application that uses lots memory. Thief 1 and 2 do not use that much memory. 256 is considered low for an XP system, so it cant hurt in the long run, though.

Another thing -- I am not familiar with PC 2100 memory. Will it work with two different types / sizes in different banks, or do they have to be matched? If it fails, you could always take the 256 module out, leaving 512.

jim2112
23rd Mar 2004, 01:20
Wont know till I put it in. I really don't want to give up on this issue though. Remember these games were working beautifully back 8 months ago.

I did re-install the original video driver that came with unit. No change there.

Could Windows media or something of that nature be it?

jim2112
24th Mar 2004, 12:28
GOT IT!... Yipppieee!, I feel like Golum after he finally got the ring from Frodo! Hope there isn't lava anywhere...

..Anyway, I thank Peter Smith, Salvage, Guineapiggy, Mr. Perfect and, bravus for taking an interest in this thrread. Heres what I did to get them working,

Going through Google search engine I was just typing microsoft, DDR RAM, Dx, Direct x, Microsoft Direct X and stubled upon the Directx homepage. Drilled down and found "does your screen turn black?" question and found this short but obvious suggestion... TURN Everythinng Off! Everything
[URL=http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=813712&product=gms] is the URL
The culprit was a little program that I had used aways back and forgot about too. See, I could not restore back that far either.
So between Blk Vipers web page suggestion for creating different profiles and here and 45 restarts TDP now works, I will be testing T2 and Gold too. Plus I have 512 Megs of Ram coming too


Thanks again Taffers

MikeInHemet
15th Apr 2004, 09:35
I have been playing with the problems of T2 not playing on SE or XP. When trying to play the game I get a black screen and the game pretty much freezes.
What I have found is that T2 will not play on the latest nvidia drivers. You have to use 45.23 or an earlier driver for the game to play. If you use 53.03 or 53.04 you will get the black screen after you click on continue to begin play. If your nvidia based card supports 45.23 or an earlier driver this is the fix for the black screen. I hope this solves your black screen issue, it did mine.
I have the same problem but with no work around now. I just installed an FX 5700 ultra and have to use both 53.04 for SE and 53.03 for XP. This nvidia graphics card is not supported by any earlier driver. Since this is the case I am not able to play T2 at all on my custom dual boot Intel based configuration. If anyone has a fix for this problem without going back to my old graphics card I would apprieciate a response to my email.
I suspect T3 won't have this problem.

Stile451
15th Apr 2004, 16:01
The answer was posted here (http://www.ttlg.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=1004770#post1004770). The problem being that the fix for this problem was put on an exe file that bypasses the copy protection(which was a necessary thing to do or the fix wouldn't have been able to be done).

If you're clever you'll be able to get the Thief 2 1.18 fix from that info.


If you have trouble figuring it out then give me a PM and I'll send you the link. Not everyone know the ins and outs of the internet.