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Loonghoi
5th Mar 2004, 04:03
I never believed it to be possible for people to whine ***** and moan so much about something! Every nit-picky detail that isn't the same as Thief 1 and 2 doesn't mean its bad. You haven't even played the game for christ's sake! I mean, seriously. Some complaints are valid, such as the chance of IS making the game like DE:IW. But here's something for me to tell you about that. Deus Ex was definately about stealth, but the thief series isn't about stealth, it is stealth. Its not like you didn't kill people in Deus Ex anyways, you either killed them or tranquilized them (or for the excessively cool, they were knocked unconcious via tranquilizers.) But some of the complaints remind me of my early years in preschool.
"That cookie was MINE!"
"NO IT WASN'T! IT was MINE!!"
Seriously. The BOW SIGHTS? Rope arrows were damned cool, but climbing gloves will be damned cool too. You guys really have to learn to accept change. If you don't want to, please don't ***** about the stupid things. It makes me really really really annoyed. :mad:

I'm not trying to point fingers, but these things stuck out to me. Flame me or praise me...

Jareware
5th Mar 2004, 10:06
We're not "moaning and *****ing" about some of these new ideas because they are a change to what we used to in Thief 1/2. We are "doing" it because we think some of the new ideas will not work for the game.

I would like to emphasize on the word think, there, to avoid further nagging about what is completely valid discussion and display of concern for our beloved game series. They are simply peoples opinions, and I'm very sorry if they make you really really really annoyed.

[edit: typos etc.]


-JR-

Acronomic
5th Mar 2004, 11:06
Please just wait for a demo or something... how could you say that the new ideas won't work for the game??? :confused:

Jareware
5th Mar 2004, 19:40
As I stated previously, I can't possibly know if an idea will work for the game. I'm (as are many others) simply taking a few educated guesses. They're just opinions, and what is a better topic for discussion than peoples opinions? Everybody knows theirs is the right one -> everybody wins. :D

Cheers,


-JR-

Fossa
5th Mar 2004, 19:59
What you fail to realize is that the original Thief and Thief 2, The Metal Age had a cult following. They really weren't mainstream games. Hell, they invented their own genre. LGS was creative, original, and artistic. They made a game that appealed to a particular group of people thoroughly rather than making something that kinda-sort appeals to everyone.

Unfortunatly we can not say the same thing about IS. Obviously there are worse choices in terms of a studio picking up a liscense and production of a series, but that doesn't mean there aren't serious concerns for any real fan.

Right off the bat, take what we've been given so far. I think I speak for most if not all fans when I say the name "Deadly Shadows" is insulting to our intelligence. That alone seems like an attempt to make the game appeal to the mass market rather than to existing fans.

Over and over they've said the game will be a rather standalone game rather than a true sequal. That right there is a slap in the face. Anyone who has played and replayed through Thief 1 and 2 knows the story is incomplete. When I first heard someone had picked up the liscense I jumped for joy, now though, well, what the hell. It seems to me that IS is more interested in simply capitalizing on an existing series rather than showing any respect or commitment to what the Thief series was, is, or was meant to be. :(

Now, take that into consideration and look at what they did to Deus Ex: Invisible War. IW was a sequal to a game they originally produced and they still butchered that beyond belief. Yes, its a decent game, but anyone looking for a sequal to the original is Sh** out of luck. This was a sequal to a game they originally developed. I shudder to think what they could potentially do, and seem to be doing to a liscense to a game they aquired. :rolleyes:

Look at all of this and every little change starts to add up.

Yes, the graphics are nicer, yes, the AI is better. But they aren't the best there are so if thats all you have going for your game, well, then the developers are SOL as well. In short, it seems they're taking Thief 3 in a direction that will try to please everyone, and in doing so, please absolutly no one. :(

Edit:
As for how we can say we know we won't like particular things, its not so much that.
We don't really know we won't like something.
We know what we like, we like what we know, and what they've given us thus far is neither.

thiefessa
5th Mar 2004, 20:15
Count me out.....I have uttered not one moan or groan!

I'm remaining completely open-minded about the new game until I have played it for myself, or at least 'started' to play it. I don't agree that any of us have really 'moaned' as such, just a few concerns, reservations, stabs in the dark, suggestions, hopes etc etc.

Nothing but healthy discussion really and it all adds to the anticipation and excitement that is now gathering momentum as the launch date draws nearer....I will be glad when the waiting is finally over, but in the meantime I will continue to enjoy reading what everyone else thinks - positive or otherwise!

Vrbas
5th Mar 2004, 22:38
It's not called complaining. It's called stating ones own opinion. To you that might come off as a comlaint but everyone is entitled to speak his or her own opinion whether it be negative or positive.

Paajtor
5th Mar 2004, 23:05
Yeah...anyway, he already said that some complains are valid.

I'm very much looking forward to this game....it's the 1st time I will play a Thief-series game.

When I see the screenies - being it only jpg's, but hey - I can fully imagine myself wandering around in this game...playing through a Radeon 9500Pro.:)
The german (E3?) ingame movie I saw, is a nice impression of what's to come.
The physics-engine that ThiefDS uses (Havoc-engine..also in HL2) is awesome...I've seen it in action in the Painkiller demo!
And the 3D-like textures on the walls are breathtaking, imo.

And those wall-climbing gloves?
It seems to be a hot item here on the forum, but in that same video the use of them is pretty realistic (grabbing visible "grabbable" spots, sortof).
It adds to the freedom of moving, just like the rope-arrows.
Ok, I've missed the rope-thing - allthough I could always get Thief2 to have a go with it...but I want uptodate graphics and sounds, when I buy a new game (which I don't do very often...maybe 2 or 3 times/year).
And so I'll get these funky gloves....great! Lot's of opportunities there.:D

ThiefDS will be awesome, no doubt...at least, for me.

Loonghoi
6th Mar 2004, 02:31
Originally posted by Vrbas
It's not called complaining. It's called stating ones own opinion. To you that might come off as a comlaint but everyone is entitled to speak his or her own opinion whether it be negative or positive.

Thanks for informing me. I didn't know that people could say what they wanted! WOW! I am a new person now. Thanks.

Seriously, like Paajtor said, I believe some are valid. But there are also those that are *****ing and moaning. One that really got me mad was when someone said something about not buying the game. That just made me feel stupider after reading it. Its not out yet, we don't know how the climbing gloves will work yet (correct me if I'm wrong), and we also don't even know how almost anything works! Some of the things I said may seem a little stupid-I've had a bad week and I'm really looking forward to a good rest soon.

HOC
6th Mar 2004, 03:32
so, because the person said he/she wouldn't buy the game, you found reason to throw a tiff yourself?

jabpn
6th Mar 2004, 04:57
Originally posted by Vrbas
It's not called complaining. It's called stating ones own opinion. To you that might come off as a comlaint but everyone is entitled to speak his or her own opinion whether it be negative or positive.

Exactly said. If anyone is looking for a good reason for stating opinions, extreme or otherwise, than consider this a good reason. These forums do in part influence the developers. If we don't have a go and express our fears, praises, and expectations for a game before release then we leave that fate of that game entirely upto the developer who may or may not have the dedicated fan base's interests at heart. I would rather complain now and affect the game, even if only in a small way. Warren Spector even admitted in his recent interview that forums are at the least looked at and considered, again even if on a small scale. Although I certaintly agree that the demo is the time to decide if we'll buy the game, better now for extreme opinions to come out if only to show the dedication and loyalty a fanbase has for a game.

Mr. Perfect
6th Mar 2004, 07:38
*****en and moaning? You won't see *****en and moaning untill after the releas when all the GeForce 4 MX users decend on the board like an unholy plaque demanding to know why their popular card that gets 92FPS in Max Payne 2 at 1600x1200 with 6xAA and 8xAF can't even play the game they blew $50 on without reading the system requirments. Ph34r th3m!1!! :D

Jareware
6th Mar 2004, 09:46
Originally posted by PaajtorWhen I see the screenies - being it only jpg's, but hey - I can fully imagine myself wandering around in this game...playing through a Radeon 9500Pro. The german (E3?) ingame movie I saw, is a nice impression of what's to come. The physics-engine that ThiefDS uses (Havoc-engine..also in HL2) is awesome...I've seen it in action in the Painkiller demo! And the 3D-like textures on the walls are breathtaking, imo.I'm with you on all your points, except for the textures. They look VERY good from a distance, almost lifelike, but when you get closer they really lose their resolution. For example when (in the german gameplay vid) Garrett manipulates the lock on the door, the texture of the door doesn't really look that good. :/ It's downright bad, actually.

But just about everything else about the game is looking better, IMO, than it has for a long while. Reading the Ion Storm dev interaction thread has truely filled me with hope. If the AI is half as good as they say it's going to be, it'll be awesome. And the physics engine as well.


Originally posted by jabpnAlthough I certaintly agree that the demo is the time to decide if we'll buy the game, better now for extreme opinions to come out if only to show the dedication and loyalty a fanbase has for a game.Let's just face it, 99% of us are probably going to buy the game no matter how sucky a potential demo is going to be. :)


You won't see *****en and moaning untill after the releas when all the GeForce 4 MX users decend on the board like an unholy plaque demanding to know why their popular card that gets 92FPS in Max Payne 2 at 1600x1200 with 6xAA and 8xAF can't even play the game they blew $50 on without reading the system requirments. Ph34r th3m!1!!Well, if my Radeon 9700 series proves inadequate... shait, I'll just have to upgrade. There's no way I'll miss out on this.


-JR-

Paajtor
6th Mar 2004, 09:58
Originally posted by Jareware
For example when (in the german gameplay vid) Garrett manipulates the lock on the door, the texture of the door doesn't really look that good. :/ It's downright bad, actually.
I've watched that part of the video again, and I think I know why you think the door-textures look bad.
They are not meant to look good!

Let me explain...I hope there's some reason in my words:

From what I can tell (remember...this will be my 1st Thief-game), the lock-picking is a very delicate job...a combination of certain moves and carefully listening to what sounds the lock produces.

I think a fully detailed door would destract to much from your focus.
What the scene again..."your" hands&tools, and the lock-plate on the door are fully detailed.
The lock-plate appears to "float" on the door, sortof, and the door is a vague image behind it.
Now focus on a real-life task, and note how the background becomes blurred and vague too.
It's a matter of concentration, simulated by the game-engine, I think.
The detailed lock-plate on the door indicates, that they could have done a better job on the door-textures, but instead had it this way...with a reason, appearantly.

link to video (http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=28357)

coldplay_josh_106
6th Mar 2004, 15:43
I never believed it to be possible for people to whine ***** and moan so much about something!

THANK GOD SOMEONE I CAN AGREEE WITH! this guys right everybody give Thief 3 a chance!