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patlak
4th Mar 2004, 00:30
I will head directly to the topic:
1. How come that Vorador still lives in BO2, when he is executed in BO1?
2.(More important)Kain bears the heart of darkness within him, so the heart was used to create him, then how is it possible that Kain meets the heart of darkness "mutated" into a huge monster that afterwards "becomes" Janos Audron, it's not logical.
Besides, all of you must admit that BO2 somehow "jumps out" from the Lok story. I mean:the Caracters are the same, but all of them are some how ilogically mixed up. It is obvious that BO, SR, SR2, and LoKD, are strongly conected, all of them except for BO2.
I would apriciate if anyone could step forward and solve this problem with a well-thought, logicall explanation.
Thank you.

f5lesnar
4th Mar 2004, 01:07
Well for the first question. That has yet to be explain by anyone working at Eidos, so your not the only one confused by that.
Secondly, the heart never mutated into the beast in BO2. I'm assuming you played Defiance, the Hylden Lord possesses Janos after the heart is returned to him, the Hylden Lord then uses Janos to power the device, which transforms Janos into the beast.

Kains_Queen
4th Mar 2004, 12:53
Yes Janos devolved into the beast to feed the mass. When the mass was destroyed Janos returned to his former self.

As for BO2 jumping out from the others - if you played defiance you will see that it all ties in nicely with the story. It's not as if the Hylden are only in BO2 and not the others they are in all the games physically or otherwise. I think BO2 is a very important part of the series. It shows that Kain is capable of feelings (ie love) - plus the fact it's my second fave game of the series after defiance. The BO2 connection is very clear to me.

DJpick
4th Mar 2004, 19:38
1. Easy. He was ressurected. How do I know?

I can't provide a link cause I found it randomly, but someone once asked why Vorador looked so weak in BO2. And C@CD replied "Did you not see what happened to him in BO1?" So at some point, he is ressurected.

2. The HoD. I think you guys misunderstood the question.

The HoD parallels the WB soul in some ways. Janos dies, his Heart is stolen, and 500 years later used to create Kain. in ALL this time Janos is dead. Kain lives through the events until he loses the HoD in Defiace, at which point Janos is revived. Then BO2 occurs. So the HoD in Janos in BO2 is the one from Uber Kain (3000 some years old) while the HoD in BO2 Kain is the one used to ressurect him (some 1000 years AFTER it was taken from Janos). Basically the HoD in Janos in BO2 is about 3000 years AFTER the HoD in BO2 Kain.

if you played defiance you will see that it all ties in nicely with the story
Only because Defiance made it tie in. If Defiance had come out first, I'm sure the story would have been a little different.

Besides, Defiance didn't explain how Vorador was alive, or what happened to Janos after BO2, or where the Seer came from. So there are still loopholes.

I think BO2 is a very important part of the series. It shows that Kain is capable of feelings (ie love) - plus the fact it's my second fave game of the series after defiance
Kain isn't supposed to love. Besides, Love and Lust are two different things.

And another thing, I mean no disrespect, but just because you love the game doesn't mean it ties in nicely. You're feelings towards the game don't help anyone else understand it. It just means YOU like it, not that it ties in "nicely". But hey, that's just how I see it.

The BO2 connection is very clear to me.
Like I said, that was half of the purpose behind Defiance. To make that connection clear.

Kainster
4th Mar 2004, 20:47
DJ pretty much summed up what I was thinking. BO2 is not a "new timeline" event and was never meant to be. The Hylden were released because of the destruction of the Pillars. However, BO2 raised many questions (and just as many blunders perhaps?) which did not tie in with the rest of the series at all. And thats where Defiance comes in. Defiance is a conclusion to both the Blood Omen and Soul Reaver series, but more importantly covers for the inconsistencies provided by BO2. Lets face it, the people involved with BO2 probably barely played the LoK games and just saw this as another credit to their portfolio. Amy Hennig is nowhere in the games credits, implying she had nothing to do with this game. Thats why its not that fun of a game. On a side note, i think the absolute worst part of BO2 was the Hylden City. It was more like Star Wars than a medieval type setting with magic.

DJpick
4th Mar 2004, 20:55
Although Amy wasn't directly related, I think the team doing BO2 were involved with the other stories. And I think it was meant to have a tech feel to it. I didn't think it was a bad game, just a little before it's time since Defiance hadn't come out yet.

Zephon
6th Mar 2004, 07:51
Originally posted by DJpick
1. Easy. He was ressurected. How do I know?

I can't provide a link cause I found it randomly, but someone once asked why Vorador looked so weak in BO2. And C@CD replied "Did you not see what happened to him in BO1?" So at some point, he is ressurected.

2. The HoD. I think you guys misunderstood the question.

The HoD parallels the WB soul in some ways. Janos dies, his Heart is stolen, and 500 years later used to create Kain. in ALL this time Janos is dead. Kain lives through the events until he loses the HoD in Defiace, at which point Janos is revived. Then BO2 occurs. So the HoD in Janos in BO2 is the one from Uber Kain (3000 some years old) while the HoD in BO2 Kain is the one used to ressurect him (some 1000 years AFTER it was taken from Janos). Basically the HoD in Janos in BO2 is about 3000 years AFTER the HoD in BO2 Kain.

if you played defiance you will see that it all ties in nicely with the story
Only because Defiance made it tie in. If Defiance had come out first, I'm sure the story would have been a little different.

Besides, Defiance didn't explain how Vorador was alive, or what happened to Janos after BO2, or where the Seer came from. So there are still loopholes.

I think BO2 is a very important part of the series. It shows that Kain is capable of feelings (ie love) - plus the fact it's my second fave game of the series after defiance
Kain isn't supposed to love. Besides, Love and Lust are two different things.

And another thing, I mean no disrespect, but just because you love the game doesn't mean it ties in nicely. You're feelings towards the game don't help anyone else understand it. It just means YOU like it, not that it ties in "nicely". But hey, that's just how I see it.

The BO2 connection is very clear to me.
Like I said, that was half of the purpose behind Defiance. To make that connection clear.

why do u buy games? 2 play & like?

or because they 'tie in nicely'

DJpick
6th Mar 2004, 08:38
How can you like a game that doesn't tie in and make the story coherent?

Besides, why are you raggin on me? I'm defending Defiance, always have, always will. And although I personally thought BO2 was a loose addition, I will defend it because it's part of the story.

But whether I think they tie in, fit, gel, cohere, mix, mesh, or any other adjective you can think of to describe the sotry working well together, doesn't change the fact that some people just don't get it.

And Yes, I buy games to play and like. But LoK is different. I could find any game to kill time with, SSX3, FFX/FFX2, Tony Hawk, Madden, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc. Game companies pay the bills with games like those that aren't meant to make you think.

But for a series like LoK, it's not about JUST enjoying them or liking them. The series is built on the story, and if the story is chaoric and random, the games aren't enjoyable.

Enjoyability is half the fun factor. A clear storyline is the other. Which has been my stance since I first started posting. That anyone who thinks the stories don't tie in, obviously doesn't get the story.

But Zephon, obviously you didn't get the point I was trying to make. So I will end the melodrama here and now. Just know that I "enoy" and "like" LoK probably second to Blincoln or Amy themselves. And there are many people here who will agree with that.

JustAnotherGeek
6th Mar 2004, 10:46
BO2 fit in just fine without Defiance, closer to the end of the game. It answered one of the questions that was on the minds of everyone at the end of SR2. Why must Janos stay dead? Defiance didn't tie BO2 in, it just gave more information as to how BO2 comes about.

DJpick
6th Mar 2004, 18:13
Oh yeah, BO2 fit GREAT. Vorador didn't REALLY die, he just pretended to. And if Janos must STAY dead because of BO2, then why is it such a big deal since Kain stops it all. I think there's more to Janos' events AFTER BO2. But that's just me.

And it also introduced a lot of characters and items that no one had EVER heard of, as well as just making the Hylden all the sudden appear without any real explanation.

Yeah, it fit great.

DJpick
6th Mar 2004, 20:21
Kain didn't want Janos ressurected because that way he woulnd't need to fight the Hyldens in BO2
But why would he care, he knows he wins in the end, and it's not the loss of Umah, cause if BO2 never happens, then Umah never would have existed :)

I think most people are looking too depp in this
Johnny Depp?

LOK kain is the greatest
6th Mar 2004, 21:54
one thing you guys have not considerd. maybe he wants Janos to stay dead because he fears what he may become when he is thrown into the demon dimension at the end of BO2. that has still to be explained how that act will effect things. Yeah sure Kain knows he wins. but we all know kain HATES surprises..


as for Vorador that is said to be explained in the next Game. if it explained in another BO2 filler story like BO2 or in the next game to folow on from defiance.....we will just have to wait and see.


Luv KITG

AndaPanda
6th Mar 2004, 21:55
Originally posted by DJpick
But whether I think they tie in, fit, gel, cohere, mix, mesh, or any other adjective you can think of

Aren't those verbs? :p

WraithStar
6th Mar 2004, 22:09
Blood Omen 2 was the first LOK game I actually played. Maybe it's because of this perspective, but as soon as I learned the story of SR2 (I still haven't found a PC version to play yet), Blood Omen 2 fit in perfectly. It's one of those new memories that bloom into Kain's mind. Just because Amy didn't write it doesn't mean it doesn't tie in. She did check over it and if there was anything that contradicted what she had written in the other games or was planning for future games, I'm sure she would have made them fix it. I like Blood Omen 2, I think it's fun and has a good story, and I think it fits in perfectly with the other games. Defiance wasn't "covering" for Blood Omen 2, it was merely going into more depth to explain some of the events. And I'm pretty sure Chris said that they have a really good reason for Vorador being alive, but he wouldn't say what because it would ruin a future game.

Kains_Queen
6th Mar 2004, 22:14
*giggles* @ AndaPanda's remark :D and i am with wraith star all the way. I played SR1 and then BO2 and i still felt it all gels together which makes it such an awesome story! :D

I don't understand some things but i have full faith all will be explained in the next game.

To coin a phrase 'Fate promises more twists and turns before this story unfolds completely' - Kain SR1 ;)

DJpick
7th Mar 2004, 05:09
But whether I think they tie in, fit, gel, cohere, mix, mesh, or any other adjective you can think of
Aren't those verbs
But whether I thought the story was coherent, tied in, fitted, gelled, mixed, meshed, etc.

Damn Latin majors :)

AndaPanda
7th Mar 2004, 05:13
*bats eyelashes* :p

Kains_Queen
7th Mar 2004, 13:41
An interesting thought.......

We don't actually SEE Vorador get executed what if he escaped? That would explain his being there in BO2. I know Raziel comes accross that statue in SR2 of Mobeus with Vorador's head but what era was it? before or after BO2?

Maybe Vorador escaped and went to 'Sanctuary' and created the vampire army that Kain used. He would have needed 'time and effort' to create all those vampires. I reckon he escaped from Mobeus as Raz only assumed he was dead he didn't actually see it happen....

just a little thought

WraithStar
7th Mar 2004, 17:46
That's interesting, but I remember someone asked Chris once why Vorador seemed so weak in Blood Omen 2 and Chris said something to the effect of didn't you see the end of Blood Omen 1? This leads me to believe that Vorador did die and was somehow resurrected. Also, in Blood Omen 2, Kain says "Do you so wish to return to the grave?" (I think that's the quote) It's my understanding that Vorador was sired by Janos' blood while he was still alive, so he was never actually dead until Moebius chopped his head off.

Kains_Queen
7th Mar 2004, 18:56
Good point. I hate Mobeus!! slimy toerag I am so glad he's dead and in such a delicious way too!! mwahahaha!

kakarot
8th Mar 2004, 02:10
1. because i spared vorador.
2. because i allowed the 2 hearts to come in contact.

thank me later.

:D

DJpick
8th Mar 2004, 05:24
I know Raziel comes accross that statue in SR2 of Mobeus with Vorador's head but what era was it? before or after BO2?
Before. By 100 years (before the battle that Kain loses).

patlak
9th Mar 2004, 19:31
Hey, and what about Kain, what happens to him when he looses the battle against the Hylden Lord in BO2? Where does he fall for his 200 years of sleep? The Abyss?-I dont think so

WraithStar
9th Mar 2004, 20:56
Wherever it was, it was in the material realm because didn't Vorador say he found Kain's body and the Cabal watched over him until he recovered? I guess the Sarafan Lord got too confident and didn't bother searching for a corpse:rolleyes:

Camus Audron
12th Mar 2004, 08:46
hey....what if the place where Kain's body went to is the demon realm?...would be fitting...hah...just a thought :p

BO2 did drift LOK's plot a bit away from it's mainstream....Amy even had to hire one of the writers of BO2 to make sure everything staid consistant.

Anyway, I dont see why Moebius would spare Vor in LOKD, according to amy the Moe that Uber Kain kills is ressurected, so young kain must have already killed Moe....which must mean that Vor was still murdered. Aside from the fact that Kain's refusal to sacrifice is directly linked to Vor's death.

DJpick
12th Mar 2004, 09:13
She hired the Script writer, not the story writer. BIG difference. And I doubt she hired her, since she appearently works for CD :)

Tarrn
16th Mar 2004, 20:13
The simplest and most logical explaination is that, after the end of Defiance, Kain - future, evolved Kain - resurrects Vorador in the same way that he resurrected the Sarafan priests to make his six lieutenants. By gifting Vorador's body with a portion of his own soul, which would draw Vorador's soul back to it. And there's a fair degree of certainty that he did die, as he was captured by Moebius' hunters (again) and his execution took place some time before the destruction of the Pillars.

Of course, that means explaining why Vorador never mentioned this fact to young Kain in BO2, or future Kain's motives in resurrecting Vorador in the first place. The first could be because Vorador never knew his remaker - perhaps future Kain had left him before he fully recovered to avoid further changes to history, or had told him not to mention anything to his younger self. As for the second, with the release of the Hylden from their imprisonment, future Kain might have realised that his younger self needed the vampire army to first face, and aid in their defeat.

Kains_Queen
16th Mar 2004, 20:18
That sounds perfect! Very logical and well thought out. love it :D

DJpick
17th Mar 2004, 09:20
The only interesting thing is the 6 didn't remember their previous lives as humans. So I wonder if Vorador would remember his previous vampire life? And if not (as is the precedent so far) then Vorador made a lot of odd comments about Kain in BO1 :)

I also agree that Vorador is somehow ressurected (due to coments from C@CD), I just am not so sure it's Kain. Although he is the most logical candidate so far.

nichie14
18th Mar 2004, 22:16
FROM: DJPICK
How can you like a game that doesn't tie in and make the story coherent?

Besides, why are you raggin on me? I'm defending Defiance, always have, always will. And although I personally thought BO2 was a loose addition, I will defend it because it's part of the story.

But whether I think they tie in, fit, gel, cohere, mix, mesh, or any other adjective you can think of to describe the sotry working well together, doesn't change the fact that some people just don't get it.

And Yes, I buy games to play and like. But LoK is different. I could find any game to kill time with, SSX3, FFX/FFX2, Tony Hawk, Madden, etc, etc, etc, etc, etc. Game companies pay the bills with games like those that aren't meant to make you think.

But for a series like LoK, it's not about JUST enjoying them or liking them. The series is built on the story, and if the story is chaoric and random, the games aren't enjoyable.

Enjoyability is half the fun factor. A clear storyline is the other. Which has been my stance since I first started posting. That anyone who thinks the stories don't tie in, obviously doesn't get the story.

But Zephon, obviously you didn't get the point I was trying to make. So I will end the melodrama here and now. Just know that I "enoy" and "like" LoK probably second to Blincoln or Amy themselves. And there are many people here who will agree with that.

My Thoughts:
Dude i totally agree With you on this DjPick, after i finished the Defiance game, i thought "What the !" I was kinda dissappointed and look everywhere on the internet who share the same feelings. I found Gamespot and they feel the same way about the story. The action is fun but it was the STORY kept me in and play the game eventhough the camera is a ted bit of a problem and the puzzles are deju vu. like what i said before, i was dissappointed that so many questions rised up, like for example" Why is Kain so afraid that Raziel is going to raise Janos?" next time, please give us some detail or background before assuming that we remember or we know the past story.

nichie14
18th Mar 2004, 22:21
CAN I ASKED YOU GUYS A QUESTION? DO YOU GUYS THINK THAT AMY HENNIG EVEN KNOW THE STORY THAT WELL OR KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON? SHE'S COMING UP WITH ALL THESE NEW EVENTS OR SCENARIOS IN DEFIANCE BUT GAVE NO REASONS. I THINK SHE IS AS CONFUSE AS WE ARE AND I THINK SHE'S ACTUALLY READING THE FORUM FOR IDEAS. THAT'S WHAT I THINK, HOW ABOUT YOU GUYS?

BRUCE LEE

DJpick
18th Mar 2004, 22:26
Dude i totally agree With you on this DjPick,
next time, please give us some detail or background before assuming that we remember or we know the past story.
I'm not sure you do then :)

My stance is the story is fine. Some aspects of Defiance were already planned during SR1. BO2 was in production while SR1 was released. It may have been changed, but they were in the planning stages LONG before it came out.

So, although they do introduce questions, I don't have a problem with that, because these games keep me on my toes and keep me guessing. That's what I like about them. They don't just start a new story (like FF) with each additional game.

CAN I ASKED YOU GUYS A QUESTION? DO YOU GUYS THINK THAT AMY HENNIG EVEN KNOW THE STORY THAT WELL OR KNOW WHAT'S GOING ON? SHE'S COMING UP WITH ALL THESE NEW EVENTS OR SCENARIOS IN DEFIANCE BUT GAVE NO REASONS. I THINK SHE IS AS CONFUSE AS WE ARE AND I THINK SHE'S ACTUALLY READING THE FORUM FOR IDEAS. THAT'S WHAT I THINK, HOW ABOUT YOU GUYS?
Yes, they read the forums and pdo get ideas, but I'm sure it's for little things. Amy had a direction she was going in, but now that she's left, she isn't involved.

But as much research into various topics as she's done, I don't think she's just "winging it"

nichie14
18th Mar 2004, 23:00
oh yeah i just realize on one of the topic that she had left in june.. hmmm..i'm applying my application at Eidos to write the next story in the series. wish me luck.


bruce lee

DJpick
19th Mar 2004, 06:22
With all due respect, please learn better grammar and spelling before you do.

card
19th Mar 2004, 06:49
what topic are you talking about? can i pls have the link? where/how do i apply? i'd really love to, you see, i love writing and LoK is my life so...

DJpick
19th Mar 2004, 06:56
Seeing as how Nichie has posted on EVERY thread possible in Eidos, I have a feeling she/he isn't being serious, and implying that he/she/it could do a better job than Amy.

nichie14
19th Mar 2004, 07:02
Hi Dr, DJPick
so you actually want everyone on this forum to write their feelings like they are actually writing an essay. i'm too busy to spell check or grammar. Sorry and i'm sure a lot of others are too. it's pretty fun though.

thanks for noticing

bruce lee

PS I can't wait till eidos accept my application. it would be a true epic.

DJpick
19th Mar 2004, 07:12
so you actually want everyone on this forum to write their feelings like they are actually writing an essay. i'm too busy to spell check or grammar. Sorry and i'm sure a lot of others are too. it's pretty fun though.
I know you're too busy. You have what, 6000 threads to post in?

But its' not what I want, just a little common decency to help everyone. I know not everyone is the most articulate, but everyone tries. It helps other people understand what they mean.

card
19th Mar 2004, 08:06
hey! nichie 14, what application!? where? and for what? i really am interested..

DJpick
19th Mar 2004, 10:09
Did you ever think it was speaking hypothetically? :)

Kains_Queen
19th Mar 2004, 10:17
Uhm hate to bust your bubble but I believe i read on this forum that Amy's position has already been filled by writers for the next game.

Posting on 6000 odd threads must take you most of the day!!

Hi DJpick ;):D

card
19th Mar 2004, 10:28
oh....dang i thought they were taking suggestions....i was already writing the beginning, which came out pretty well....darn..:(

DJpick
19th Mar 2004, 11:08
Hi KQ.

And the position wasn't "filled", so much as the rest of the LoK team was picking up where Amy left off :)

Kains_Queen
19th Mar 2004, 11:23
Ah yes thanks :) I knew i had read it somewhere but couldn't remember it exactly.

Hey DJpick you should come in the chat room it'd be nice to actually talk to you :D

DJpick
20th Mar 2004, 07:14
What chat room? Besides, you could always Email/IM me :)

Kains_Queen
20th Mar 2004, 16:50
The thread to the chat room is here (http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=34768) I couls email you true but chat rooms are more fun :)

nichie14
20th Mar 2004, 18:11
It is indeed with much regret to the gaming public and especially to LOK fans for I, have slipped the grip of a golden opportunity that would have enable me to enhance this vampiric chronicle into a true epic that would last for eons to come. An epic where the dishevel of the mind cease to exist, moreover where clarity and soundess fill every word and every breath till the end.

Don't be so poignant, for I share your feelings as it is my own,

bruce lee

DJpick
21st Mar 2004, 07:53
I noticed. So, have I read any of your works? I would think someone applying for story writer would A: Have to know many of the works Amy read inside and out, and B: Have her own portfolio.

zstipet3
21st Mar 2004, 23:31
im just interested are there going to be some new legacys

DJpick
22nd Mar 2004, 05:09
No more than 2 I would guess.

Camus Audron
24th Mar 2004, 02:11
I think it all depends on the "new" writers...if they only try to mimick Amy, things will inevitably come to an end, because Amy is the best at being Amy, so nobody can be a better her than herself.

But if they try to add in a respectul and tastefull way their own gameplay mechanics and plot ideas then it will probably be more than 2 games.

DJpick
24th Mar 2004, 08:10
I hope they don't draw the series out like the Bond movies. I want more games, but I want a clear and concise end.

Kains_Queen
24th Mar 2004, 11:12
Me too. I hate things to be 'left to your imagination' I like to know what hapens and all loose ends to be tied up or I just find it annoying!

DJpick
24th Mar 2004, 11:20
It's also a sign of good writing. That they were paying as much attention as the readers/players were :)