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omegafury
2nd Mar 2004, 17:31
the hylden certainly have a right to be ticked. but who said they had rights. there is no Nosgoth Greenpeace Organization to take pity upon them. all that matters is that they are the enemies of the vamps, for the time being, and thus deserve nothing but the reaver's blade in their stomach.

this is my stance anyway, what i want to know is, do you think the hylden deserve pity or aid from the likes of kain? should kain seek an alliance with them to destroy the elder?

Shifter
2nd Mar 2004, 17:56
il say bomb them 2 dust and let them sit in there dimension 4 annother 1000 centuries they messed with kain in the past i dont think he will alie with them

and the elder god cant be fully destroyed he did have a meaning

LOK kain is the greatest
2nd Mar 2004, 20:18
It doesn’t matter if they were victims anymore. That dimension has totally twisted them. What you going to do sent them to a shrink to talk about it.? They will not stop until they have had there revenge, and we have seen how they treat humans from BO2. No nothing but war and death is left to them now. Kain will not accept them with open arms. There is too much history between them

Luv KITG

Shifter
2nd Mar 2004, 20:26
and where the hylden that nice bfore the great war i dont think so

WraithStar
2nd Mar 2004, 21:45
Hey, who knows? Maybe Janos will have a good effect on them:) . I don't know if Kain should help them or not, but they might have useful information on the Elder God. They were originally banished for refusing to submit to him, so maybe they know something Kain could use against him. What did they see that the Ancients didn't? So I don't know if "help" is even the correct word. I think Kain should use them to defeat the Elder God. After that, well, we'll see:rolleyes: .

Shifter
3rd Mar 2004, 06:54
they where not part of the wheel where they immortal? or mayb they could c the elder god

ParadoxFiend
3rd Mar 2004, 07:37
Crush em:D

DJpick
3rd Mar 2004, 08:10
If an innocent man goes into prison, and comes out bitter, enraged, vengeful, spiteful, and ready to get his revenge, should he be allowed to roam free?

Shifter
3rd Mar 2004, 14:25
how much hyldeb will there b released? and can they uhm reproduce more in that shadow realm?

Kains_Queen
3rd Mar 2004, 15:25
I hate the Hylden I would love to see them gone forever so Kain can concentrate on a way to restore balance without dying! Every time he does something the Hylden get in the way. Pesky creatures!!:mad:

Zephon
3rd Mar 2004, 15:40
now come on,

where would nosgoth be without the psycopaths?:confused:

maybe the elder releases em to make life difficult 4 kain?

DJpick
3rd Mar 2004, 17:07
You mean like BO2?

omegafury
3rd Mar 2004, 19:07
glad to see i'm not the only one who dosent give a crap for the hylden's fate.

they're but casulties of war. and they'd only cause problems upon a release from the demon dimension, they already do as remnants. and later in bo2 they'll try to cause a mass genocide, using janos to fuel it. they deserve no aid.

they may have done once, but no chance now

DJpick
3rd Mar 2004, 22:46
So because of what they will potentially do in BO2, no recourse should be made for them when they were innocent in the Ancient eras?

WraithStar
3rd Mar 2004, 23:03
Unless Kain goes back in time and prevents them from being banished, there is no way to make "recourse" for them while they were still "innocent". And, considering the murals in the Hylden City in Blood Omen 2, it's debatable whether or not they ever were innocent to begin with.

DJpick
4th Mar 2004, 03:12
Those murals were NOTHING compared to the blood bath in the Defiance murals.

The Warrior Servant
4th Mar 2004, 04:05
The Hylden put forth a plan of action to destroy every living creature from the greatest Ancient to the most helpless kitten, from the swiftest wolf to smallest bacteria (I'll assume bacteria exists in Nosgoth), from the strongest Human to the most fragile of infant. In one foul swoop they would murder, genocide completely and indiscriminately ALL bar the Hylden.

And This was ALL BEFORE the banishment

So do Hylden deserve aid? NO. And since they've been sitting in a Demon Dimension for millennia, there would be no reasoning with them, no reconciliation. To aid them is to aid the annihilation of Nosgoth.

Leave the Hylden to their fate, there is not much worse more than can be done to them.

DJpick
4th Mar 2004, 04:24
In one foul swoop they would murder
Did you mean "One fell swoop"?

And This was ALL BEFORE the banishment
Says who, no one here can tell me the Hylden started it.

Kains_Queen
4th Mar 2004, 08:43
They were going to use 'The mass' inside 'the device' in BO2 to completely wipe out humans and vampires alike etc etc. They were going to use the glyphs to channel the mass to destroy every living creature. The sarafan Lord discovered how to use the device that had been buitl by the Hylden centuries before their banishment - They were going to kill everyone apart from them as they considered themselves a 'pure race' and deserving to rule supreme in Nosgoth. The vampres banished them before they could complete their terible plans. The vampires and humans at that time lived side by side - play defiance to see why it all went wrong for the vampires.

So the Hylden have always wanted to commit mass genocide (The Sarafan Lord was a Hylden too bent on destruction) and rule supreme in Nosgoth, they deserve nothing but to languish in the hell of their own making!! Mwahahaha!!

DJpick
4th Mar 2004, 09:42
The sarafan Lord discovered how to use the device that had been buitl by the Hylden centuries before their banishment - They were going to kill everyone apart from them as they considered themselves a 'pure race' and deserving to rule supreme in Nosgoth. The vampres banished them before they could complete their terible plans. The vampires and humans at that time lived side by side - play defiance to see why it all went wrong for the vampires
Maybe there's a secret mural I don't know about, but I don't remember the mass being mentioned in Defiance.

Secondly, I don't remember any mention of using the mass being the reason the Hylden were banished.

I remember BO2 being the result of them being banished, not the cause.

Kains_Queen
4th Mar 2004, 09:57
The Mass is in blood omen 2. Kain has to destroy it by finding the Hylden builder in the eternal prison. The information i put forward comes from both BO2 and Defiance. The Hylden bguilt the device in order to use it against the humans and vampires but they were banished by the vampires before it was completed. The Sarafan Lord came to Nosgoth when the Pillars were destroyed by Kains descision. He resurrected the Sarafan order and created the glyphs to channel the mass and again attempt to wipe out everything apart from them.

There was no need to mention the mass in Defiance as it wasn't important to the story. The game creators presume i think that you ave played the previous games and know a little of what's going on. Don't feel sorry for the Hylden they are evil through and through!

Shifter
4th Mar 2004, 11:13
where did the hylden live in the ancient times becose nosgoth aint that big 2 house human vampire etc whas there annother land?

DJpick
4th Mar 2004, 19:11
The Mass is in blood omen 2. Kain has to destroy it by finding the Hylden builder in the eternal prison
I know.

The information i put forward comes from both BO2 and Defiance
I know.

The Hylden bguilt the device in order to use it against the humans and vampires but they were banished by the vampires before it was completed
Says who?

I thought the Mass was an unknown ancient device that just happened to be found by the Hylden. Where was it mentioned that the Mass is why they were banished in the first place?

The Sarafan Lord came to Nosgoth when the Pillars were destroyed by Kains descision
I know.

He resurrected the Sarafan order and created the glyphs to channel the mass and again attempt to wipe out everything apart from them.
I know.

There was no need to mention the mass in Defiance as it wasn't important to the story
If it was the reason they were banished, then I would think it was VERY important to the story.

The game creators presume i think that you ave played the previous games and know a little of what's going on.
I guess so, because the awe inspiring telepathic WMD that the Hylden created and then got banished for wasn't mentioned in Defiance. Even though Uber Kain had lived through and seen it destroyed, he made no mention of what was to come. It must have been REALLY important for EVERYONE to have forgotten it.

Kains_Queen
4th Mar 2004, 19:20
just to clarify Janos Audron told Kain that the Hylden had built the device with the mass while he was a beast then he sent Kain to find the builder

DJpick
4th Mar 2004, 19:49
just to clarify Janos Audron told Kain that the Hylden had built the device with the mass while he was a beast then he sent Kain to find the builder
The Hylden bguilt the device in order to use it against the humans and vampires but they were banished by the vampires before it was completed. The Sarafan Lord came to Nosgoth when the Pillars were destroyed by Kains descision. He resurrected the Sarafan order and created the glyphs to channel the mass and again attempt to wipe out everything apart from them.
So which is it? Was it built BEFORE they were banished, or after BO2 started?

Ardeth Silvereni
4th Mar 2004, 20:32
Originally posted by DJpick
So which is it? Was it built BEFORE they were banished, or after BO2 started? In BO2, the Builder says the Device was built before they were banished, but its network (needed to send the Mass' mental energy out of the Device and into Nosgoth) was never completed. Apparently they didn't have time to do it before the Ancients raised the Pillars. I expect their war had ended up being a competition to see which race got their super-weapon working first, and the Ancients won.

It seems that incompletion was the only reason the Device was never used back then. When the Sarafan Lord re-entered and took control of Nosgoth, he simply decided to finish the network and make use of the domant Device.
The Builder:
Yes, yes. The Device. The Device was built as a weapon aeons ago when two races warred with each other for dominance of Nosgoth. It houses an ancient creature, whose very mind is capable of killing any living thing with but a thought.
The Device was to channel the mental energy of this creature, and direct it onto Nosgoth. It would attune the creature's mind to kill all living creatures except for my race. Before it could be completed, however, I was imprisoned here, and the rest of my race was banished to another, far more terrible realm.

Kain:
So this Device was never finished? And yet, the creature still lives within it?

The Builder:
It was dubbed 'The Mass'. It is eternal and deadly, yet harmless without a channel for its mind. But we never completed the weapon. We needed a way to send its energy out of the Device and into the land itself. We needed a conduit throughout the cities - a network, if you will. Once this network was created, the Device would channel the mental energy of the Mass, and send death upon our enemies.

Kain:
You say 'a network'. Placed like a web throughout a city?

The Builder:
We never completed the network. We never used the Device.

Kain:
But the Sarafan Lord will. The Glyphs. He is using the Glyphs to channel the Mass to wipe out the city, humans and vampires alike. That must be his plan.

DJpick
4th Mar 2004, 20:44
Yes, I know the game say sall that, but Kains Queens posts said otherwise, which is why I was questioning her.

Kains_Queen
6th Mar 2004, 12:46
No not really the above is what i meant i just didn't put it accross quite right :)

kakarot
7th Mar 2004, 02:51
* the hylden were banished because they refused to submit to the wheel. cant blame them for not wanting to be squiddy's food.

* there was a hylden who helped kain destroy "the mass" in BO2 so.. NO, they're not all bad guys. leadership was the cause for all of that non sense. I suppose a good leader would produce good things for the hylden race.

* i seriously would like the new directors to elaborate more on the history of the hylden, possible exploring old hylden ruins (via time travel).

DJpick
7th Mar 2004, 05:12
why not? he was innocent to begin with...
So it's ok to let a man willing to get revenge back out because he was innocent to begin with?

And if he gets his revenge and kills OTHER innocent people due to his rage? Should he be able to walk because, he was after all, innocent?

the hylden were banished because they refused to submit to the wheel. cant blame them for not wanting to be squiddy's food.
Where did this come from? I hear people talk about it like it's a fact.

i seriously would like the new directors to elaborate more on the history of the hylden, possible exploring old hylden ruins (via time travel).
Last I heard, that was what the next game was going to do.

Kains_Queen
7th Mar 2004, 14:03
The Hylden being banished because they refused to submit to the wheel is in Defiance - Raziel interprets one of the murals i think in the water forge or earth forge - anyway it's a fact and the poetic irony of thier curse meant that the vampires were also liberated from the wheel. You need to play the game again and listen carefully to all the cutscenes there is so much information it's taken me 6 plays of the whole game to finally see the true picture and how Raz figured out what he had to do!!

kakarot
8th Mar 2004, 01:12
Originally posted by DJpick
why not? he was innocent to begin with...
So it's ok to let a man willing to get revenge back out because he was innocent to begin with?yes.

And if he gets his revenge and kills OTHER innocent people due to his rage? Should he be able to walk because, he was after all, innocent?relax pick, nobody is dead yet. In the event that there was a death what makes you SO SURE that they're "innocent" in the first place? Are you saying that all innocent people released from prison are released with the sole purpose of killing innocent people? weak stereotype. show me proof, stats, etc.

the hylden were banished because they refused to submit to the wheel. cant blame them for not wanting to be squiddy's food.
Where did this come from? I hear people talk about it like it's a fact.
Defiance. go back and play it again. maybe it's not a fact, but that's what was said and you CANT deny it wasn't said.

i seriously would like the new directors to elaborate more on the history of the hylden, possible exploring old hylden ruins (via time travel).
Last I heard, that was what the next game was going to do. Where did this come from? I hear people talk about it like it's a fact. - sound familiar?

kakarot
8th Mar 2004, 01:14
Originally posted by Kains_Queen
The Hylden being banished because they refused to submit to the wheel is in Defiance - Raziel interprets one of the murals i think in the water forge or earth forge - anyway it's a fact and the poetic irony of thier curse meant that the vampires were also liberated from the wheel. You need to play the game again and listen carefully to all the cutscenes there is so much information it's taken me 6 plays of the whole game to finally see the true picture and how Raz figured out what he had to do!!
that's just it, he's played the game, he heard the scenes yet - it didn't happen. i've seen this arguement before..

DJpick
8th Mar 2004, 05:39
The Hylden being banished because they refused to submit to the wheel is in Defiance - Raziel interprets one of the murals i think in the water forge or earth forge
Raziel has never been the brightest bulb in the box.

anyway it's a fact and the poetic irony of thier curse meant that the vampires were also liberated from the wheel
1. I don't think the Ancients would call it liberating.
2. If the Hylden WERE trying to liberate them, why was the curse a retaliatory move? Instead of a preliminary move?
3. Why do the Hylden want to kill the race they liberated? If they are SO intent on helping the Ancients, then I doubt they would kill them for what happened. It would have been a simple misunderstanding. It's like you said, the innocents don't become vindictive after being wrongly accused.

yes.
I'm sure the survivors of the innocent "he used to be so nice" man, would disagree.

relax pick, nobody is dead yet. In the event that there was a death what makes you SO SURE that they're "innocent" in the first place? Are you saying that all innocent people released from prison are released with the sole purpose of killing innocent people? weak stereotype. show me proof, stats, etc.
I wasnt saying they DO, just asking what if they DID?

Context is everything.

Where did this come from? I hear people talk about it like it's a fact. - sound familiar?
Sure does. Mine came from a quote from the creators in an interview about the future of LoK.

Where as the description if the mural came from a guy who knows diddly about what's going on. Raziel isn't the quickest rat in the race, if you know what I mean.

that's just it, he's played the game, he heard the scenes yet - it didn't happen. i've seen this arguement before..
Wow, you have summed up my intelligence and ability to comprehend a complex story with underlying themes that are intricate and intertwined, in one sentence.

I guess I shoudl play it some more then, since when it comes down to it, I am just an idiot who can't realize that Raziel is the all knowing person you give him credit of being. DESPITE the fact that at every corner he is presented with information he didn't know before, and has to have OTHER people answer his questions. And in the end his decision came from defying BOTH destinies, by sacrificing himself so that neither came to pass. He created his own destiny, exerting his own free will, and allowing the TRUE Scion to fulfill HIS destiny.

Yeah, I think I need to play it some more. I missed the part where Raziel learned the truth and didn't go from one mystery to the next, learning and being confused all in the same moment. The part where Raziel doubts himself and who he is ALL through the game, not realizing he was the one represented by both characters in the murals. The reasons why he made the ultimate sacrifice.

Yep, DEFINITELY don't understand the games.

Kains_Queen
8th Mar 2004, 08:50
Blimey!!

DJpick
8th Mar 2004, 09:08
Don't tell me I don't understand the games. It annoys me. I understand them QUITE well. And just because I see things differently than you as they pertain to certain aspects, doesn't mean I am an imbecile. It means I have an open mind to ALL sides of an idea.

I am willing to look at ALL theories with an open mind. But I don't like it when a persons only recourse is to tell me I'm a bufoon. That's not good debating. And it ticks Umah off cause she knows I will respond to such comments. And just gets me in trouble.

The themes of these stories may be complex and hidden, but I comprehend EVERY one of them.

But, that's all I will say about it. And to beat Umah to the punch and set things back on track...

Raziel interprets one of the murals i think in the water forge or earth forge
Interpretation is not understanding. Comprehension is objective, interpretation is subjective.

You need to play the game again and listen carefully to all the cutscenes there is so much information it's taken me 6 plays of the whole game to finally see the true picture and how Raz figured out what he had to do
I listened carefully to EVERY word spoken. Both the first AND the second time I played it. But I didn't play the second time to understand, I played it for the screen captures. I understood why Raziel did what he did the minute I saw him look at the mural of the Scion/Savior.Mural with the completed Reaver. It's not hard to see. For 3 games now Raziel has been whining about being a puppet on strongs he could not see or touch, and in the end, he was finally able to cut those strings. He came to a final realization that in order to break free from being a pawn, he would need to act directly, instead of indirectly. And so he did. He did what neither prophecy told or expected, and did what no one wanted. He sacrificed himself so he couldn't be used by anyone anymore, except the one person who he was meant to help. Kain. He IS his right hand, and his sword.

Vampmaster
8th Mar 2004, 10:59
Originally posted by LOK kain is the greatest
It doesn’t matter if they were victims anymore. That dimension has totally twisted them. What you going to do sent them to a shrink to talk about it.? They will not stop until they have had there revenge, and we have seen how they treat humans from BO2. No nothing but war and death is left to them now. Kain will not accept them with open arms. There is too much history between them

Luv KITG

There is one object in nosgoth with the power to heal all corruption and madness without the aid of a shrink. coughSpiritReavercough

DJpick
8th Mar 2004, 11:01
COUGHexcellentpointCOUGH

Vampmaster
8th Mar 2004, 11:42
I think there might be a way to use the Spirit Reavers purifying effects without killing it's targets. I mean it didn't kave to kill Kain to cure him so why would it have to kill the hylden? Perhaps by channeling it's powers through the pillars, it could heal their madness instead of killing them or banishing them. I beleive the pillars have multiple uses and banishing the hylden was just the one that the vampires chose.

I've been thinking about how the wheel of fate works. Kain said that him and Raziel are the only beings with free will even though they weren't the only ones who refused to the wheel. The vampires and hylden were liberated from the wheel of fate but the vampires still returned to it when they commited suicide. So perhaps the hylden still don't have free will and their attempts at genocide are just another part of the EGs plan to keep the wheel turning.


Originally posted by Kains_Queen
I hate the Hylden I would love to see them gone forever so Kain can concentrate on a way to restore balance without dying! Every time he does something the Hylden get in the way. Pesky creatures!!:mad:

AFAIK he already restored balance when his corruption was healed. Maybe he has to actually go to his own time to do do that.

Camus Audron
13th Mar 2004, 05:14
think there might be a way to use the Spirit Reavers purifying effects without killing it's targets. I mean it didn't kave to kill Kain to cure him so why would it have to kill the hylden? Perhaps by channeling it's powers through the pillars, it could heal their madness instead of killing them or banishing them. I beleive the pillars have multiple uses and banishing the hylden was just the one that the vampires chose.


I've been thinking about how the wheel of fate works. Kain said that him and Raziel are the only beings with free will even though they weren't the only ones who refused to the wheel. The vampires and hylden were liberated from the wheel of fate but the vampires still returned to it when they commited suicide. So perhaps the hylden still don't have free will and their attempts at genocide are just another part of the EGs plan to keep the wheel turning.


AFAIK he already restored balance when his corruption was healed. Maybe he has to actually go to his own time to do do that.


well, from what I've seen the purified reaver might not kill even in contact, I mean when Raziel stabbed moebius with it, it didnt really kill kim, all it did was enlighten/purify him, what killed him was raziel's soul devouring. (I still hate raziel for eating the purified moebius, moebius may be decietful but he was only serving what he thought was right, if it was for vengance he had already beeen killed twice, and he was even purified now! what was his freaking need to killl him so fast? couldnt he atleast allow him a chance?)

Also I dont think the Ancient were back in the wheel of fate when they suicided...I thought they were all trapped in their wraithy selves like the pillar guardians.

Well...I also think that if the hylden's attempts for genocide were part of EG's little plans...they would have succeded in fullfilling them, because the kain that stops them still isnt uber or aware of the prophecies, so if he could stop the hylden it was because EG wanted him to. That is unless of course something else happens after BO that allows the genocides

I agree with the whole Kain returning to his time to set balance right thing, until Kain comes to a time where there isnt another copy of him, the circle will still be corrupt. Though balance doesnt exist yet, I mean there isnt even a freaking balance pillar standing anymore, and we dont know what will set balance right either.

I like to think that it involves a peacefull cohexistance between the Hylden and the Vampires tho.

Though it probably is more focused on kicking EG's butt

and if that if so, after listening to some of EG and Kain's outtake....it seems kicking EG's may also involve travelling to some other dimension, some of the deleted dialogue has EG saying "I exist in places which you cannot reach!" =O

Travelling to other dimensions sure would make a nice replacement for the Spectral realm...oh wait, maybe EG was just talking about spectral realm....crap :p my LOK6 wet dreams are dead :p.

DJpick
13th Mar 2004, 06:49
I still hate raziel for eating the purified moebius, moebius may be decietful but he was only serving what he thought was right, if it was for vengance he had already beeen killed twice, and he was even purified now! what was his freaking need to killl him so fast? couldnt he atleast allow him a chance?)
Moebius didn't give Raziel a chance. Besides, it didn't change the fact that Moebius did all those things.

Also I dont think the Ancient were back in the wheel of fate when they suicided...I thought they were all trapped in their wraithy selves like the pillar guardians.
Maybe I read the Mural too literally, but it looked like they went to it, and then fell.

I exist in places which you cannot reach!" =O
Maybe time, or the minds of the souls of the people who die and feed him. Or maybe in the Reaver :)

Darth Raziel
13th Mar 2004, 07:24
What's so wrong bout them? They only rejected a false god

evil_sharkey
15th Mar 2004, 07:22
moebius may be decietful but he was only serving what he thought was right

DJpick said it once, but I'll say it again, doing terrible things because you believe your cause is righteous is no excuse. The ends can't justify the means. Some of the worst atrocities in history are the result of righteous causes and crusades. Even the Nazis thought they were doing good. Somebody here has a great quote in their signature. "The road to Heaven is paved with good deeds. The road to Hell is paved with good intentions." I hope Moebius likes it warm.

Back to the subject at hand, I don't think the Hylden were originally evil, and I don't think they all need to be obliterated/imprisoned. There must be a few individuals who retained enough sanity to realize that the whole war was stupid, revenge only makes things worse, and the future stinks for everyone. They might be convinced to aid Kain in defeating Squiddy, whom I believe is a great big liar and imposter, posing as a real god while manipulating people to provide more souls for him.

Hmm. I wonder if Kain could somehow use the Pillars to banish Squiddy, thus allowing a REAL god to take care of souls. I, personally, would like to see that overgrown mollusk converted into a giant plate of calamari and all three races of Nosgoth restored just enough to start over.

DJpick
15th Mar 2004, 08:18
doing terrible things because you believe your cause is righteous is no excuse
If I hacked into the Eidos forum, because I wanted to fix some glitches for them so I could post better ona game I enjoy, wouldn't you guys be upset? Or would you let me off the hook cause it was for a good cause? Good intentions aren't always good enough. The ends don't justify the means.

I hope Moebius likes it warm
I don't know, he lived in a cave of ice :)

Kains_Queen
15th Mar 2004, 09:45
Hear hear! :D

DJpick
16th Mar 2004, 04:13
I thought you were under the impression I didn't know what I was talking about :D

Kains_Queen
16th Mar 2004, 09:35
I never said that! I just wanted to clarify where Raz had said and found out stuff but I never said you didn't know what you were talking about. On the contrary 'Blimey!!' was referring to how impressed I am by your arguments! and some things I agree with you on some I don't but hey if we all agreed all the time the world would be very boring! :D

DJpick
16th Mar 2004, 11:10
You said I need to play the games again and listen to EVERYTHING :)

But it's no biggy. I'm not worried :) I don't want to rehash it anyways, it's done passed. I don't need other people's approval to know I understand the games :) It just annoyed me that right after you said that, someone else had to reemphasize it further :)

Kains_Queen
16th Mar 2004, 11:12
No hard feelings then :)

DJpick
16th Mar 2004, 11:41
No, cause I understood the game the first time I played it, not the 6th :D :D :D :D :D he he

Kains_Queen
16th Mar 2004, 11:46
*sobs* I know but there was so much to take in!! and besides I was too busy admiring the new and improved Kain graphics to pay too close attention to the story the first time round....rofl :D

*sigh* he can bite me any day!!;)

DJpick
16th Mar 2004, 11:50
I'm going to get into so much trouble for the past few posts :)

And all I was saying was there are no hard feelings :)

Kains_Queen
16th Mar 2004, 11:54
Oooooh me too! sorry Umah:( please don't be cross you love us really!! :D <-----endearing smile!!

DJpick
16th Mar 2004, 11:55
It's more like she hates to love me, cause I'm so cute and adorable, yet so melodramatic :)

bish
16th Mar 2004, 15:16
kain is trying to return the pillars to the vampires, therefore he wants to continue to banish the hylden.

that is the true purpose of the pillars after all.

bish

DJpick
17th Mar 2004, 09:17
kain is trying to return the pillars to the vampires, therefore he wants to continue to banish the hylden.
Kain is a vampire, so technically they are in control of them.

But it depends on which vampires you mean. If you mean the Ancients, then that's impossible, because a change that drastic (negating the curse, preventing the war, erasing the past that led to Kain becoming the Scion) would be a fatal paradox. I think if anything, the purpose of the Scion is to, in effect, press the resetbutton, so that things start over. The past is passed, it can't be fixed (only slightly modified), the only way you can go is forward (similar to what Amy said about making a remake of BO1).

nichie14
18th Mar 2004, 22:28
THE HYLDENS ARE DUMB, EASY TO KILL, UGLY- ALIEN LOOKING CHARACTERS THAT DON'T BELONG IN THE LOK SERIES. IF ONLY THEY LOOK COOLER, INSTEAD OF ALIEN-LIKE, I THINK THAT MIGHT BE COOL. GOSH WHY DOES THE LOK SERIES HAVE TO CHANGE IT'S PATH TOWARD THE HYLDENS.

bruce lee

Ps this is what i think, how about you guys??

DJpick
19th Mar 2004, 06:20
I think a story about the Ancients being cursed, and creating the pillars and Reaver, is pointless without an antagonist to cause it.

And the Hylden (plural is still Hylden), look that way because of the millenia in the Dimension, they didn't look like that before they went in.

nichie14
21st Mar 2004, 05:38
oh ok, they were beautiful people. But to atttract more customers, please make them look COOL!!!!! not like the ones from the BO2.

bruce lee

Dark_Raziel01
25th Mar 2004, 11:24
Originally posted by nichie14
THE HYLDENS ARE DUMB, EASY TO KILL, UGLY- ALIEN LOOKING CHARACTERS THAT DON'T BELONG IN THE LOK SERIES. IF ONLY THEY LOOK COOLER, INSTEAD OF ALIEN-LIKE, I THINK THAT MIGHT BE COOL. GOSH WHY DOES THE LOK SERIES HAVE TO CHANGE IT'S PATH TOWARD THE HYLDENS.

bruce lee

Ps this is what i think, how about you guys??

i had dificulties with the hylden that hav the swords like arms(specily in a group of 2 & some times 3) i found the ezest way 4 me was quickly slash them b4 they get a chance 2 attack

WraithStar
25th Mar 2004, 16:46
I just stood there blocking and then used the immolate rage attack. It works like a charm;)

DJpick
25th Mar 2004, 19:26
i found the ezest way 4 me was quickly slash them b4 they get a chance 2 attack
You basically summed up the BO2 combat system in one sentence :)

Du ' Hab
25th Mar 2004, 21:14
Weren't the hylden banished because they refused to serve Elder God. By what right did the winged ones banish the hylden from the land where both are equal?

WraithStar
25th Mar 2004, 21:26
That's the thing, though. When have fanatics ever viewed everyone as being equal? Usually they are so bent on eliminating everyone else that they must be destroyed in order for everyone else to survive, which is why I'm hesitant to call the Hylden evil. However, the Hylden don't appear to be good guys either, considering the murals in their own city where they are depicted as torturing people and building the device to kill everyone else. I've come to the conclusion that I don't agree with either side and would rather just focus on individual characters.

Du ' Hab
25th Mar 2004, 21:32
Yes, when you think about the human torturing in BO2 you could call evil BUT I don't find it so surprising they don't keep human in so great value, if they were banished before first men ever came to nosgoth(were born). Maybe they think them only as mere animals :)


By the way has anyone ever seen Beast Wars? I found it quite amusing how the hylden control other beings som much like Tarantulas controls Blackarachnia in Beast Wars season 2....:D

WraithStar
25th Mar 2004, 21:44
Actually, Vorador forged the Reaver and I believe that it was before the Hylden were banished, so I think the original Hylden existed with humans for awhile before the banishment. Incidentally, I love Beast Wars. I never made that connection with Tarantulus, although now that you mention it, I remember:p . A connection I made was that the Defiance video clip "Vengeance and Sacrifice" was one of the only things that conjured up the same emotion as the Beast Wars episode "Code of Hero" where Dinobot is fighting all of Megatron's forces in that valley.

Du ' Hab
25th Mar 2004, 22:05
Even their voices are a bit like Tarantulas...heh, maybe the creator team loves Beast Wars too :D

Dark_Raziel01
26th Mar 2004, 05:25
1 thing the hylden in the murals in defiance had wings & in bo2 no hylden had no wings (techonly only 1 did the seer was a hlyden but not a bad guy)but dose any 1 no y or has a theory plz tell me

Omni_Sephiroth
26th Mar 2004, 05:48
The Hylden do have wings..... even in the SR2 Murals they had them, they just looked small and weird

DJpick
26th Mar 2004, 06:16
Yes, when you think about the human torturing in BO2 you could call evil BUT I don't find it so surprising they don't keep human in so great value, if they were banished before first men ever came to nosgoth(were born). Maybe they think them only as mere animals
But not long after the banishment, they were converting humans, so I don't think they were "animals" at that time.

Actually, Vorador forged the Reaver and I believe that it was before the Hylden were banished
But the question is was Vorador a human or vampire? Cause that could change your view.

that conjured up the same emotion as the Beast Wars episode "Code of Hero"
AWESOME episode, where Dinobot ended up teaching the humans how to first use tools :)

Although I liked Beast Machines better :)

The Hylden do have wings..... even in the SR2 Murals they had them, they just looked small and weird
If you look at the Hylden souls (which I have pics of :)) they do have vestigal wing bones, although very short ones. They may not be wings at all, and just a choice to make the Hylden physically distinct.

Du ' Hab
26th Mar 2004, 06:35
Whenever you see the hylden in Defiance, they rise up from the ground or are possessing living beings, right? The risen bodies sometimes have wings. Couldn't these be bodies of the winged race?

DJpick
26th Mar 2004, 06:37
I think it was mentioned that as they came closer to the pillars falling, they controlled stronger bodies. And yes, I think it was mentioned that those winged bodies were the Ancients.

Du ' Hab
26th Mar 2004, 06:56
Some souls(skull ones) in SR2 look exactly like The Vok seen at least in Beast Wars episode Other Victories. :)



By the way, where to get hylden pictures? concepts, screenshots, anything?

WraithStar
26th Mar 2004, 19:02
Originally posted by DJpick


Actually, Vorador forged the Reaver and I believe that it was before the Hylden were banished
But the question is was Vorador a human or vampire? Cause that could change your view.


I think that he looked human in the murals. Even if he was a vampire, though, that means that he used to be human so humans did exist during the battle between the Ancients and the Hylden. And yeah, "Code of Hero" is one of my favorite episodes. I thought Beast Machines was okay, but I didn't like what they did with Rhinox, I thought Jetstorm was there only good new character and they got rid of him, and Botanica should have been introduced much earlier (I know, I know, they had trouble developing her or whatnot and put her in as soon as she was developed but she was so cool that I would have like to see her in more episodes). And Du ' Hab, you just reminded me of Tigatron and Air Razor, :( may their sparks rest in peace.

DJpick
27th Mar 2004, 06:43
I think that he looked human in the murals. Even if he was a vampire, though, that means that he used to be human so humans did exist during the battle between the Ancients and the Hylden.
My point was someone said Vorador forged it before the banishment. But if he was a vampire when he forged it, that means it was after.

But Kain looked semi human as well when he was turned in BO1, so you can't say for sure in the mural.