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Tall-Guy
1st Mar 2004, 16:51
I was pondering about this back in Soul Reaver 2, and I just thought about it again.
Why is Moebius Staff is so deadly to the Vampires?
Is it because of the Elder god?
And what about the Wraith blade? why the reaver disappeared?

It's an obssession
1st Mar 2004, 21:31
I'm still unsure about this so I'll repeat what I've been told: the Wraith Blade is Raziel's Vampiric soul, so it will be disabled by that stupid staff. I'm not sure about everything else, but I have a theory: Raziel is both the Vapire champ and the Hylden champ (but not of their race), but it's his Free Will that helps him decide what one he is, right? Well, at the end we have the very-touching scene that gives it all away: Raziel decides to be the Vampire Saviour, so that would make his soul, that is drawn into the Reaver, Vampiric. Therefore it can be disabled by the staff.
.....Does that sound OK, or am I talking trash? :confused:

mortaniusgod
1st Mar 2004, 22:55
that's staff is complicated... why didn't moebius use it in BO1?

Gad
1st Mar 2004, 23:02
The reason it disables the wraith blade is because the wraith blade previously inhabited the Reaver, which before being imbued with Raziel's soul, was filled with vampiric engergy. Therefore, the wraith blade absorbed this vampiric energy and is closer to a vampire than Raziel himself, so it is disabled around Moebius staff while Raziel is unaffected.

Moebius didnt use the staff in BO1 because he can see the future and he knew exactly how he wanted everything to play out. Plus, we dont see a lot of Moebius' crusade, so its possible that he did use the staff, just not when Kain was around. Also, I dont think they had thought of the staff until SR2.

The Angel of Death
2nd Mar 2004, 05:16
Originally posted by mortaniusgod
that's staff is complicated... why didn't moebius use it in BO1?

its like wat mobius said in sr2

death comes for us all raziel its just a matter of time

Tall-Guy
2nd Mar 2004, 08:57
And why the Staff stoped working in the end?
Is it because the Elder god " abandoned " Moebius?
(He says Moebius was a good servent but he had no further use)

bish
2nd Mar 2004, 14:25
kain also said to moebius that the part of him that the staff effected is no longer there.

the staff only effected the heart of darkness.

i think, as i have posted somewhere before, that the staff only effected vampires that were the ancients or the vampires raised through blood gift, eg janos audron, vorador. not vampires that were raised through necromancy or other means, such as kain, raziel and co.

hence, once the heart of darkness was removed from kain the staff no longer worked on him (i think that the staff was created by the hylden, it would make sense).

bish

Shifter
2nd Mar 2004, 14:39
sry 4 asking but who made the staff? and is there someting inside the staff?


i thought that the hard of darkness was inside the staff lol silly me

bish
2nd Mar 2004, 15:00
i just posted who i think made the staff, look one post above yours.

bish

Shifter
2nd Mar 2004, 15:41
doh hmm would make sence that the hilden made it if they made a big one all the vampires would get wacked in a sec

omegafury
2nd Mar 2004, 17:23
moebius' staff hurts abominations born of the blood lust--the vampires. it hurts the wraith blade of raz because raz's soul is vampiric, though his body is another matter.

moebius didnt use it in bo1 or anything else because he needed kain and the others to act out their roles as dictated by the elder. if he attacked kain with the staff in bo1, kain would not have fulfilled his role.

the staff was constructed by the noble vampires, when they still worshipped the elder. it was a weapon for the guardian of time of the pillars, but seeing as the vampires are fallen now, they have become suceptible to their own device

Shifter
2nd Mar 2004, 17:53
ironic isnt it if u are true then they made a weapon that will devastate there breatheren

The Angel of Death
3rd Mar 2004, 04:16
his a pic ive found of the hylden (i think)wit the the staff & mortainus http://lok.revan.us/Earth_Mural2.jpg

LOKFan
3rd Mar 2004, 06:36
That is Moebius holding the staff in the mural. Kain says so himself in the dialogue.

The Angel of Death
3rd Mar 2004, 09:18
ok im just use to mobius werin dat cloke

Shifter
3rd Mar 2004, 14:27
m2 and isnt it weird he allied 2 the same person who was a necromancer? necromancers defie the wheel with there undead **** and all

omegafury
3rd Mar 2004, 19:13
yes it is weird that moebius allied himself to mortanius.

maybe the elder came to them, telling them to start the uprising against the vamps, thus he could've given morty permission to defy the wheel, as he does moebius to keep coming back to life.

the elder would've done so bcause he feared the noble power of the vamps, that they would surpass him.

omegafury
3rd Mar 2004, 19:23
moebius knew all, except what raziel was doing and what he could affect. for he was the only one with free will.

but raz has given kain free will when he pulled the heart of darkness from him. so now, moebius cannot predict his own demise as he once did.

omegafury
3rd Mar 2004, 19:24
sorry, this was supposed be a reply to a post about someone's confusion about moebius, i pressed the wrong icon.

DJpick
4th Mar 2004, 21:12
yay my pictures are being used :)

The Angel of Death
6th Mar 2004, 00:44
Originally posted by Shifter
m2 and isnt it weird he allied 2 the same person who was a necromancer? necromancers defie the wheel with there undead **** and all

may be he thort motainius would revive him like wat he did 2 kain but not become a vampire

Tarrn
16th Mar 2004, 20:19
An alternative is that Moebius's staff is a Hylden weapon from the time of the great war, designed to disable their vampire enemies as it does for Moebius himself. Having been designed to work on the Ancients, it works on blood-born vampires (Janos, Vorador, Janos's heart in Kain and the Reaver as it's a vampiric weapon forged by the ancients) but not necromatic vampires (Kain without the heart, and possibly Raziel if his wraith-state doesn't make him immune.)

Jonaleth
16th Mar 2004, 22:09
The explanation we have for certain wierd stuff that happens throughout the game (the resurrection of Kain in the demonic realm, the inability of the staff to affect Kain, etc...) is that after Raziel defeated Kain and sent him to the demon plane, and the Pillar of Balance started summoning all Balance Guardians to itself, right at that point, Kain IS the Scion of Balance (I don't think anybody can say for sure if he became Scion of Balance at that moment or if he was Scion of Balance all along, he was destined to be, that's for sure).

Being the Scion of Balance, Kain can't be affected by the staff or be killed.

DJpick
17th Mar 2004, 09:25
An alternative is that Moebius's staff is a Hylden weapon from the time of the great war, designed to disable their vampire enemies as it does for Moebius himself. Having been designed to work on the Ancients, it works on blood-born vampires (Janos, Vorador, Janos's heart in Kain and the Reaver as it's a vampiric weapon forged by the ancients)
I don't recall the staff ever being used on Vorador.

and the Reaver as it's a vampiric weapon forged by the ancients
I don't recall it working on the Reaver.

Unless you meant the WB, in which case the Ancients didn't forge it.

and the Pillar of Balance started summoning all Balance Guardians to itself,
You mean the Spirit forge. The pillars had fallen, and were in no condition to be summoning anyone.

bish
17th Mar 2004, 21:08
the wraith blade was affected by the staff because it had been in the blood reaver. by the looks of things, the wraith blade took on the characteristics of the blood reaver, and the blood reaver was forged by the vampires (vorador to be precise).

you can assume that the staff was used on vorador, how else do you expect him to have been captured by moebius and his crew??

bish

DJpick
18th Mar 2004, 03:44
you can assume that the staff was used on vorador, how else do you expect him to have been captured by moebius and his crew??
As someone who knows about the fate of Raziel, and logically was educated in the ways of prophecy, fate, time, and destiny by the ones who created them, he may have accepted his fate and been waiting.

He may have also known that someone (Kain perhaps) would raise him again. But that's all specualtion. I just don't want to assume the Staff works on Vorador, because we havent' seen it work on Vorador. Call me overanalytical, but I prefer empirical evidence over specualtion, when available.

Besides, the Sarafan may have just brought a big bucket of water. He isn't invincible you know. I mean, Moebius isn't without his own methods of offensive magic.

The Angel of Death
18th Mar 2004, 05:05
Originally posted by bish
the wraith blade was affected by the staff because it had been in the blood reaver. by the looks of things, the wraith blade took on the characteristics of the blood reaver, and the blood reaver was forged by the vampires (vorador to be precise).

you can assume that the staff was used on vorador, how else do you expect him to have been captured by moebius and his crew??

bish

2 tell u i actuly thort mobius bought 100's of his men & just cornered him in his mansion

DJpick
18th Mar 2004, 08:44
Drunken DJ can't understabnd wha you're mumblking asbout :)

SOber DJ shouldbbe here in a fdew hours (After some sleep :P) heheh ) :)

bish
18th Mar 2004, 11:05
i've just remembered something else, during SR2 raz says:

"if that orb was as debilitating to the vampires as it was to the blade, it gave moebius a powerful advantage over his enemies. i finally understood how moebius' crusade could decimate the vampires so successfully. if he could immobilise his enemies, they were at his mercy..."

that is also why i think the staff was able to help in vorador's capture. all other vampires in nosgoth were made vampires through blood gift, and they were all affected by the staff. vorador was also made by blood gift.

bish