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Jareware
29th Feb 2004, 21:07
Has anyone else noticed the way Garrett is taking aim in (correct me if I'm wrong) all screenshots including the bow?

Example: http://media.pc.ign.com/media/015/015244/img_1951356.html

He's aiming without compensating for gravity. Like in some First Person Shooter game!

I will be very sad if they have made the bow to a what-you-point-at-is-what-you-will-hit -weapon. But I guess one has to do that in order to give non "MIT-grad" players the slightest chance of hitting anything... :o


-JR-

tealsmith
29th Feb 2004, 22:01
Actually I believe the arrows (cept the fire arrow) will still arc. The player in the game is just either aiming for that guy's heel or isn't done aiming. Ion Storm couldn't be THAT stupid.

Xcom
29th Feb 2004, 22:13
Originally posted by Jareware
Has anyone else noticed the way Garrett is taking aim in (correct me if I'm wrong) all screenshots including the bow?

Only minor correction: it is not Garrett who's aiming, it is the person who's playing the game, who takes the aim. :D And the fact is, that we don't know whether that person really intended to hit the target or simply demonstrated the aiming process for the sake of taking a screenshot.

Secondly, in that particular screenshot (and actually in all screenshots from that site), the distance between the target and Garrett seems to be rather small. So, even with gravity playing a role, it shouldn't affect the trajectory that much, so you won't really need to compensate for that while aiming.

Well, anyway, I think there is definitely gravity involved. I mean with the new physics engine and stuff, I would be very surprised to see all arrows fly in straight line regardless the distance.

mtmckinley
29th Feb 2004, 22:47
except maybe fire arrows. :)

HOC
29th Feb 2004, 22:53
i hope they still have the arcs within the game. but for all we know with that screenshot, they might've just made the arrows go slightly farther before gravity starts pulling it down.

didn't IS say they were making combat easier?

mtmckinley
29th Feb 2004, 23:04
Y'know, this might be a little off the original subject, but I don't get what Spector means by the combat being easier... combat was pretty easy in the original two games. I remember cutting down as many as three or four guards all at once in Thief and Thief2.

:shrug:

Sedge
1st Mar 2004, 00:17
You can't say that he's aiming for the heel of that guy... Even in the other Thiefs the arrows didn't arc that much... in Theif 1/2 that arrow would hit him in the chest...

wipeoutxl21
1st Mar 2004, 00:27
If you watch the preview in german you can see that the bow psyics(sp) seem to have changed. When he pulls it back it fires really fast and travels ground even faster with no real arc. It does seem less like the old thief. Altho that was an old preview of the game. Might be changed in the final version.

tealsmith
1st Mar 2004, 01:25
Originally posted by wipeoutxl21
If you watch the preview in german you can see that the bow psyics(sp) seem to have changed. When he pulls it back it fires really fast and travels ground even faster with no real arc. It does seem less like the old thief. Altho that was an old preview of the game. Might be changed in the final version.

It's going really fast and with no arc because it's a fire arrow. Fire arrows never arced and always went fast.

Squid
1st Mar 2004, 06:08
Actually, I'd be very surprised if the arrows DON'T arc. Considering the new physics engine and how it effects everything in the game, the arrows dang well better arc, or they've deliberately changed the physics engine to NOT include arrows.

Squid

GlasW0lf
1st Mar 2004, 08:20
The "Sneaking around the town" vid here (http://media.pc.ign.com/media/015/015244/vids_1.html) shows the water arrow arcing right at the start.

Jareware
1st Mar 2004, 09:03
Brilliant, my fears have disappeared. :)


-JR-

Acronomic
1st Mar 2004, 15:45
They will most surely arc, yes.

The aim in the screenshot was probably taken that way because it looks cool, and you can see the enemy guard he's aiming at.

Jareware
3rd Mar 2004, 23:31
Actually, after reviewing the german gameplay video it seems that even fire arrows arc in flight. Me likes.


-JR-

theBlackman
3rd Mar 2004, 23:36
Originally posted by Squid
...or they've deliberately changed the physics engine to NOT include arrows. Squid

Or put a bullet physics on the arrow to give the Xers and Playtoy users a low learning curve so the game can sell. :(

Jareware
3rd Mar 2004, 23:40
theBlackman, that was my fear originally as well, and the reason why I started this thread, but I've been rather well convinced now that this is not going to be. It is not. It is not... ;)


-JR-

theBlackman
3rd Mar 2004, 23:44
I will wait and see. I can't condemn the game based on speculation. I can be adament about those aspects of the game that made it appealing to me.

But if the WS in the interview thread is this supposed genius game designer, then he must have had a lobotomy before he started this project.

Every word he utters makes the new THIEF (as we know/knew it), a pale copy of a "CLIFF'S NOTES" about THIEF.

Acronomic
5th Mar 2004, 22:06
Originally posted by theBlackman
Or put a bullet physics on the arrow to give the Xers and Playtoy users a low learning curve so the game can sell. :(

Sorry, but I just gotta say that I hate this kind of behaviour... I'm just so sick of people thinking console players are stupid or something. :mad:

Oh well. :p

Mr. Perfect
6th Mar 2004, 07:20
Others have said that the preview movies clearly show an arc on the arrows. No skimming, aight? :D

Huntress
7th Mar 2004, 00:51
Acronomic...me thinks you need to rethink again about the range of age that consumes box players vice that of PC gamers? It is well established that on the whole of it...more younger ppl play/use the consoles than the overall age group of PC players. Why? If you think about why, and don't understand the demographics of the whole gaming community, then you miss the point of what tBm was eluding to :) Yes there are/were younger ppl playing the first two Thief games as should have been played but I'm sure an equal amount of them just didn't get it...therefore it did take time/learning curve of how to put everything in the game to a fine tune :) Due to that, I'm sure many just gave up and felt it was more difficult. However, because of the nature of the console and the type of games that can be played and the less configurable it is...it will be required to make it easier for them to learn and play the game and why they've made it more "actiony" :( Now if that is disagreeable to you and the concerns many of us have over the cross platforming of these systems...so be it! I do not like it one bit and I feel many others of us feel this same concern. Ta and Good Hunting!

coldplay_josh_106
7th Mar 2004, 15:10
Huntress.

I'm 16 and I have been playing thief ever since it was first realesed. I never thought it was too difficult or boring, and im sure there are many more like me.

I also think that when the game was first made, the devs main target audience was teenagers.

Peter_Smith
7th Mar 2004, 18:40
I agree with Huntress.

coldplay_josh_106 is partially correct in that young people play Thief. I think he is incorrect in saying that Thief was developed for teenagers. I think Thief was developed to appeal to all ages, especially to people older than teenagers, and there is no question that it did, as we see from the age range in these forums. Because Thief is not a game of instant gratification, some people may lose patience with it. I believe that a higher fraction of young people would tend to lose patience and drop out early.

I have only one data point. Our grandson, who is very smart and played lots of console games (when he was younger) and PC games (now), did not take to Thief. His problem-solving ability at Zelda, however, was amazing. His father, who plays few games, did take to Thief. I am sure that there are many reverse situations, but I hope you understand my point. Thief is a game of slow deliberation. Patience is needed to hide the shadows and wait. I think that, in general, older people have more patience for this type of thing.

Anyway, it is clear that the average age of console gamers is younger than the average age of PC gamers. That is mainly because of the money involved to purshase the equipment and the skill and resources needed to maintain it. Consoles make nice Christmas presents, and the young people are the ones asking for them.

So, it is clear to me that if you want to tap into a broader audience of existing console players, you would want to make the game more appealing to them by providing more opportunities for easy learning and instant gratification. I am not saying that is what should be done -- on the contrary, I think that would be a big mistake -- but it could be a goal of market-oriented cretins.

GlasW0lf
7th Mar 2004, 19:01
True Peter, and I'm sure there's also the aspect of a learning curve to take into consideration. New players can go into Thief 1 and 2 and hack at some guards, but it soon gets frustrating and samey, not to mention pretty difficult. By giving that option better "support" in easier skill levels, new players can be drawn in sufficiently to get the feel of the game. Then maybe they'll look to the higher skill levels, with no-kill/ghosting objectives, and start enjoying the intricacies and challenges on offer there.

I know I didn't realise ghosting could be so enjoyable until "forced" to ghost Shoalsgate on expert.

Mr. Perfect
9th Mar 2004, 00:42
Ghosting is not enjoyable for many people, especially when you're forced into it. *Has traumatic Thief 2 flashback*

coldplay_josh_106
13th Mar 2004, 13:40
Thief is a game of slow deliberation. Patience is needed to hide the shadows and wait. I think that, in general, older people have more patience for this type of thing.

Ah Well that just shows how matture I am then! :D ;)

imported_deadly_thief
15th Mar 2004, 21:12
i think hes not aiming right because hes not a master thief like us lot

Jareware
16th Mar 2004, 13:08
BTW, do any of you think Garrett holds his bow kinda strangely? It is at an angle of 45 degrees or something, sideways I mean. Having done some shooting with a bow myself I can tell you that it won't help you. Except maybe at looking cool but I would question that too. It looks rather silly, actually.


-JR-

Lake
16th Mar 2004, 19:39
It does look funny but I just think that is the way he holds to be more stealthy. It could also be he holds that way when crouched. *shrugs*

calthaer
18th Mar 2004, 05:38
At least the interface looks more like the other Thief games, and not as much like a crappy console interface :)

imported_deadly_thief
18th Mar 2004, 18:19
like what the other guy said i think hes half way though his shot so hasnt finished