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Rommel_1891
29th Feb 2004, 17:06
Every now and then, the time comes to put away the FM's and play a nice run through the game OM's. :D

It's times like this that I remember which mission I hate most and why I hate it. The Sword just taffs me off to no end!! I hate it so much. I think the only part of that level I like is little big land. Other than that, the maze of tile drives me nuts.... and those taffing guards have eyes in the backs of their heads!!! ARG! :mad:

I'm pretty sure my favorite is still Cragscleft though. There's just something about luring Hammers down into the mines to fight zombies that is just sooooo gratifying! :cool:

Oh well, now that I have that out of the way I think it's time to get back to TG! ;)

Later

Peter_Smith
29th Feb 2004, 18:58
To each his own, as they say.:) The Sword is one of my T1 favorite missions for ghosting. The marble hallways that annoy you so much are a real challenge. It seems to me that with a little moss they should not be a problem. There are a couple of places that you can get to without walking on tile (e.g., through caves) where you can lurk and pick off guards with your BJ one at a time. Now, if you want to have sword fights up there, that is another story. So it may depend on your playing style.

Have fun with your TG run. :)

Rommel_1891
1st Mar 2004, 00:47
Tile wouldn't be so bad if Garrett didn't wear tap shoes! :p It would also help if the slow walk and crawl actually made you quieter... All it really does is make the intervals between 'taps' longer.

I just don't like that mission layout, everything is too weird for me. lol

The Opera House and Mage Towers are a couple others I do like, atleast the tile makes sense in most of the places. :p

Gumdrop
1st Mar 2004, 00:54
Not a big fan of The Sword either, but the sound FX and the garden area are sweet in this one. I'm glad you like Cragscleft though... I love the claustraphobic passages and the smelter workshop.

Hmm... can't remember what comes after The Sword. Lost City I guess. :confused:

ChowYunFat
1st Mar 2004, 00:59
I've just been playing through the T1 OMs as well. I've never really tried serious ghosting so I want to ghost as many of these familiar missions as I can.

It helps to remind me all over again why I love Thief.

Peter_Smith
1st Mar 2004, 01:27
Originally posted by Rommel_1891
Tile wouldn't be so bad if Garrett didn't wear tap shoes! :p It would also help if the slow walk and crawl actually made you quieter... All it really does is make the intervals between 'taps' longer.
I think you miss the point of tile. If tile were not noisy, it would not be a challenge. Also, your statement is not quite true. You can avoid the tap sounds. In T1, you crouch and use the walk key combnation (shift + forward arrow) very carefully. Holding down the shift key, go tap-tap-tap on the forward arrow key. If done correctly, you arrest your footsteps before they go "tap," and nary a sound is made, even on tile. But it is slow and tedious, no question about it. With practice, you can find the optimum rhythm and maximum speed with no noise. You can go even slower and more quietly by angling yourself into a wall. It is then a question of route and timing the guards. You can go everywhere in Sword with adequate route planning and timing plus some moss.

Yeh, OK, maybe this is too much trouble, but it is possible. A lot of tension is created to see if you can complete your move without being discovered. You do not have to be a strict ghoster to use these motion techniques, though. Use only when wanted or necessary.

In T2 if you use the creep key and the walk key in conjunction, you go very slowly. I map the keys so that walk and creep are near each other, so I can adjust my speed very easily. No noise there, either.

Rommel_1891
1st Mar 2004, 02:52
Yeah I know that Peter... I managed to ghost Ramirez in his office and leave him penniless and concious. I also ghosted the guards in the casino area of Theives Guild without too much trouble. :D The problem with The Sword is this: On alot of the areas (particularly above the 2nd floor... 1st and 2nd are actually ideal uses of tile), they put us in a big open well-lit hall with 4 or 5 guards and no place to hide. Because you have to move so slow, you can't keep up with the guards and likewise you can't outrun their patrol route half the time. It makes ghosting aggrevating rather than challenging because the if cumbersome control doesn't work smoothly that one time you're caught. And the guards on that level flip out so easily anyway that one tap from 200 yards away puts them into a frenzy like a pack of blood thristy piranhas. :p My basic complaint is that you shouldn't have to use holes in the controllability to 'cheat' and successfully ghost a scenario.

Moss is great and all, but it's only really useful if you want to spring out to tap a guard or cover a trasition from the room to the hallway carpeting without running on the tile.

I don't mind the tile when it's used in situations where it's possible to hide slightly. As long as you don't have to move too far, you can still manage to get out of the way quickly without making a noise. Or if it's dark enough, you stick to the wall and just creep along.

I think the Opera House is a good example of ways to use tile in a challenging fashion. The tile areas are mingled with carpet, wood trim and darkend areas so you have a refuge and you're not forced into a confrontation. The Sword was just a bad day for somebody that decided to take it out on us! I like the level to be practical. Any OM can theoritically be 100% ghosted if given the right amount of time, but what's the fun if it takes 4 hours of cramped keyboard positions? :p

Peter_Smith
1st Mar 2004, 06:03
Good points all, Rommel. I was just kind of proud of my Perfect Thief in The Sword, that's all. :) It may have been a pain, but I thought it was worth it. And I do like that mission, so, again, to each his own.

Squid
1st Mar 2004, 06:49
The funny part about this is that I'm playing Thief Gold all the way through for the first time! I'm currently in the Mage's Tower, and I'm curious... is it just me, or is the whole dang building empty?!?! For crying out loud, I think I've got more furniture in my room than the whole building does. It's gigantic, but empty. Why is that?

Also, was it pathetically easy to get the Earth key for everyone? I really thought it would be harder than what I did.

Squid

Rommel_1891
1st Mar 2004, 14:02
I just happen to be on The Mage Towers as well! lol

This one is my favorites. I don't know what difficulty you're playing on, but I've found that on Expert it can be a little tricky in the air and fire towers. I take the 50% ghost approach. :p I'll usually leave stationary guards if they aren't blocking something I want, and I'll tap out most roving guards. ;)

Now when you say Earth Key... Do you mean the Talisman or the key to the Earth tower?

Squid
2nd Mar 2004, 08:17
I meant the Key to the Earth Tower. I played on Hard, and all I had to do was swim up, and then swim down. In a lot of ways, I really didn't find this level that hard.

I've now made it through Lost City and I'm about to start Song of the Caverns. Looking forward to it, and have barely heard anything about it. :D Lost City was changed a lot, and I kept getting confused since the layout was different. I also felt like I was missing something where the lever is found... don't know why.

Squid