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Huntress
27th Feb 2004, 05:00
For you folks that poo pood the idea of comments made about the use of Climbing Gloves and the similarity to a Spiderman type of character...this was copied from IS's forum and an interview (via a video) with Warren (this was a summary written by a poster after viewing):

QUOTE: he (Warren) describes thief as being about 'small but deep spaces' like system shock and how using the climbing gloves makes you feel like spiderman. (warren, you poor, dumb bast**d, just remember you brought it all down on yourself***).
UNQUOTE ***My edit re: personal comments. Huntress

I just thought this was a valid point that various ppl (including myself) that got this impression from using these gloves ILO of a rope arrow, would sortof make you feel like and was not a desired attribute to the general gameplay feel as had been achieved with T1/T2, IMHO.

Also, the other thread at IS's forum has grown considerably (Q&A with a couple of devs that has been referenced elsewhere in this forum) and takes some reading to get thru to the "meaty" stuff (anything important enough regarding game info) but worthwhile to at least get a few things somewhat answered I guess. Ta and Good Hunting!

thegrommit
27th Feb 2004, 05:09
Given your recent posts, I think you should give up on Thief3. It doesn't sound like you'll be happy unless it's EXACTLY the same game as its predecessors.

Of course, you could just wait and see whether the changes result in a good game, but I guess that would be too....

... logical?

Huntress
27th Feb 2004, 06:07
thegrommit...No you are quite incorrect as to my wanting T3 to stay exactly as T1/T2...what I have been saying and wanting to have happened, is that Thief's basic gameplay would remain in tact without the replacements but with some added enhancements to make it better. Your right though, I'm not happy in the general sense of what I've been reading about some of these game changes that I find will be detracting to the feel of these games as I've come to know them (which as I've said, also included the mess they made with DE:IW).

Will they release a demo...???? I'd be willing to play that just to see if I would possibly buy it all things considered, but in the meantime I'm not jumping up and down with glee at the prospect of what I feel will not turn out to be the game I wanted either.

However, I do have the right to express my concerns about it and the things I've been reading that lead to these concerns. I hope you read that thread over at IoS's forum and perhaps if you take the time to understand what's being said or not (avoiding) to answer...you may get a wider view of this next Thief game. Your choice...Ta and Good Hunting!

theBlackman
27th Feb 2004, 09:20
If there is no demo, this sucker won't be popping no 50 bucks out for about 3 months after the game comes out.

Not until the "real" thief players have commented on what is and isn't.

From what I have read, this game will not be THIEF, but a hodge-podge of Spiderman, SS, and other games with THIEF as a weak base on which to hype the new engine, and suck in the console players.

More and more info "from the horses ??? mouth," is pointing to a wide deviation from the premise that made THIEF what it IS.

I can wait to see, but I won't be standing in line with my fist full of dollars.

Jareware
27th Feb 2004, 11:29
Originally posted by thegrommit
Given your recent posts, I think you should give up on Thief3. It doesn't sound like you'll be happy unless it's EXACTLY the same game as its predecessors.thegrommit, I think the point Huntress was making is that people who dreaded the idea of Garrett becoming Spidey actually DO HAVE solid reason to worry. As do I, now. :(


-JR-

thegrommit
27th Feb 2004, 11:38
Originally posted by Huntress
thegrommit...No you are quite incorrect as to my wanting T3 to stay exactly as T1/T2...what I have been saying and wanting to have happened, is that Thief's basic gameplay would remain in tact without the replacements but with some added enhancements to make it better.

In other words, you want the same game with extra toys - regardless of the fact that the game engine is totally different. The addition of a freeform city area, dynamic lighting and shadowing plus a real physics engine don't count as enhancements I guess?

Is the glass always half empty for you?

And BTW, you may have missed these nuggets in the developers thread:



1) Are the levels larger than those in Invisible War?

Yes; in general, Deadly Shadows has more gameplay space per map load than Invisible War did, due to improvements in the technology and specific content trade-offs.


Regarding one effect of the dynamic lighting model:



Lean works in both 1st and 3rd; the difference is, you have to actually be concerned about leaning into the light. If you lean out around a corner and your arm and head are being struck by a flickering torchlight, it's going to affect your light gem.

Granted, a quick look is often safe. But you're dealing with real, per-pixel shadow and light, so you're going to be kept on your toes.

[edit] taken from this thread (http://66.193.119.177/index.php?showtopic=208645)

Acronomic
27th Feb 2004, 11:42
I thought people had understood by now that climbing gloves don't make Garrett into spiderman..... :rolleyes:

John D.
27th Feb 2004, 14:14
I'm obsessed-I will by T3 no matter what!:D With so many good FM authors around, if T3 doesnt meet our tastes, we'll just take the T2 engine and build the sequel we want!:cool: but judging from what I've seen in screenshots and gameplay videos-I think it's gonna be good!

BrokenArts
27th Feb 2004, 15:50
I am still buying THiefDS when it hits the shelves. Things are being nit picked to death, and really it is personal preference on what, in the end, we will like. There wasn't this hype when the first Thief cameout, we didn't know what to expect, nor the 2nd Thief installment either, so many people didn't like the bots, and the mechanics of T2. Yet, we still played it, got used to it, excepted it. We may not like everything, but, we liked most things.

wipeoutxl21
27th Feb 2004, 19:25
Originally posted by John D.
I'm obsessed-I will by T3 no matter what!:D With so many good FM authors around, if T3 doesnt meet our tastes, we'll just take the T2 engine and build the sequel we want!:cool: but judging from what I've seen in screenshots and gameplay videos-I think it's gonna be good!

alot of people are saying this, but from what I have heard we probably wont have an SDK to make this possible.......

theBlackman
27th Feb 2004, 20:03
Originally posted by thegrommit
In other words, you want the same game with extra toys - regardless of the fact that the game engine is totally different. The addition of a freeform city area, dynamic lighting and shadowing plus a real physics engine don't count as enhancements I guess?

You are missing the point. The game engine being better and offering "a real physics engine" among other things is great.

The point is that it is no longer the same game. It's very much like Garrett now having a bazooka. (exaggerated of course) the whole appeal of THIEF is the way it plays; the things the player needs to learn to BE GARRETT, and use the tools effectively.

It's like playing hide and seek with everybody wearing a beeper. Not the same game. Although the modified hide and seek might be fun. IT AIN'T THE SAME GAME.

As far as "extra toys" when you take "toys" out and replace them with "toys" that are not as useful, then you don't have "extra toys" you have diminished capacity.

TIM Darg
27th Feb 2004, 20:49
I'm buying this game no matter what. My money is already in my trembling hands and giving it away to Eidos is my fantasy. However, I still hate being spiderman. The rope arrows were a CHALLENGE, gloves are just too easy in comparison.

DAMNED BE THE CONSOLE EFFECT!!

thegrommit
27th Feb 2004, 23:08
Originally posted by theBlackman
the whole appeal of THIEF is the way it plays; the things the player needs to learn to BE GARRETT, and use the tools effectively.


Right - and how has this changed? Sure, the tools have changed, but you yourself said that learning to use the available tools effectively is what counts.



It's like playing hide and seek with everybody wearing a beeper. Not the same game. Although the modified hide and seek might be fun. IT AIN'T THE SAME GAME.

As far as "extra toys" when you take "toys" out and replace them with "toys" that are not as useful, then you don't have "extra toys" you have diminished capacity.

So you know for a fact that the new toys automatically mean "lesser" gameplay? I guess you've already played the game? Please enlighten us!



You are missing the point.


Nope - you are. The thing that differentiated Thief was its focus on evasion rather than combat. How has that changed? The new lighting model looks like its enriched (http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=34116) that aspect of gameplay. The new A.I. sounds like it'll be more of a challenge to slip by. Yet the vast majority of complaints seem to be about (a) climbing gloves (b) rope arrows - i.e. gadgets. The problem with this is that you don't actually know how those gadgets fit into the actual gameplay. Do the climbing gloves have a limited useful life? Can you use them to hang from a beam? At what point can you purchase them? Are they essential? Until you have those answers, prejudging them is kinda fruitless.

I'll say again, if you want the SAME GAME, there are plenty of fan missions out there. Just because things are different doesn't mean they're worse.

theBlackman
28th Feb 2004, 00:12
Of course I want the same game. That's why I bought TDP and then Tgold and then TMA.

That's why TR kept going until the fatal last offering. Better play, same game.

I don't want automatic aimming, a stronger faster Garrett, or any other fancy crap. And if they put in those little green X's to sight the target my whole point will be more than justified. :D

I want smarter AI, better shading, more realistic physics and game maps, new villians and wider interaction with the world. But I don't want the basic values of the game play changed.



As you say there are FM's.

coldplay_josh_106
28th Feb 2004, 00:39
For you folks that poo pood the idea of comments made about the use of Climbing Gloves and the similarity to a Spiderman type of character...this was copied from IS's forum and an interview (via a video) with Warren (this was a summary written by a poster after viewing):

HUNTRESS!!! If u really Hate Thief 3 soooo Much, Then Why the **** are you still posting on this forum.

Sure ppl are a little worked up about garrett turning into spiderman just coz he has climbing gloves and no rope arrow(I'M still not sure how that works, just coz he has climbing gloves that automatically makes him spiderman)! And i see your reasons for complaining about it! But For **** sake it wears abit thin after a while, and some ppl get a little pi**ed off!

"THERES NO ROPE ARROW"

"THE CLIMBING GLOVES ARE CRAP"

"THERES NO WATER"

Now dont let me get too nasty about it, but please Let it go already!

theBlackman
28th Feb 2004, 00:51
A better question would be why don't you just stop reading them. As for your language I suggest you check and READ (as you obviously did not) the TOU.

Whether you inserted the *** or the censer did, is immaterial. Your choice of words, your rude behavior and general pattern of posting is beyond that permitted on this forum.

Please moderate your invective and attitude. And READ THIS:
http://forums.eidosgames.com/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=2

And adhere to its restrictions.

thegrommit
28th Feb 2004, 00:54
[edit] nm, blackman did it better.

theBlackman
28th Feb 2004, 00:57
Originally posted by thegrommit
[edit] nm, blackman did it better.

EDIT: See what you did? I'm talking to myself.... again. :D

The rest of you can guess what that was all about. Shades of rickNmel sneaking in here. And you not so ancient members of our community can scratch your heads over that in joke. :D

thegrommit
28th Feb 2004, 01:06
Originally posted by theBlackman
EDIT: See what you did? I'm talking to myself.... again. :D

Hey, even I am not immune to a bit of hypocrisy now and then ;)

I'd appreciate it if you would remove what I posted though - even if it's only alluded to :)

theBlackman
28th Feb 2004, 01:08
Originally posted by thegrommit
Hey, even I am not immune to a bit of hypocrisy now and then ;)

I'd appreciate it if you would remove what I posted though - even if it's only alluded to :)

Done and done. BTW welcome to our rather closely knit corner of the Thief world. :D

thegrommit
28th Feb 2004, 01:10
Originally posted by theBlackman
Done and done. BTW welcome to our rather closely knit corner of the Thief world. :D

Thank you, I look forward to much .. spirited debate once the demo comes out :D

theBlackman
28th Feb 2004, 01:13
As you may have noticed already, I am certain you will not be disappointed in your anticipation. :)

RedLegg
28th Feb 2004, 07:34
Originally posted by theBlackman
[b]
I don't want automatic aimming, a stronger faster Garrett, or any other fancy crap. And if they put in those little green X's to sight the target my whole point will be more than justified. :D



{Pipes up without warning!}

I can confirm that none of the above mentioned items are/will be in the game. :)

{Back to the Shadows}

theBlackman
28th Feb 2004, 08:13
Many thanks Redlegg, I had not thought so, but all the BS flying around does bring up scarey thoughts of potentials. :D

coldplay_josh_106
28th Feb 2004, 10:13
A better question would be why don't you just stop reading them. As for your language I suggest you check and READ (as you obviously did not) the TOU.

WTF! Im just stating my opinion man! And I dont think its up to u to tell me how to act on this forum! And for your information I did read the Rules, and to be frank I dont give a crap about it! The only reason that it bothers you is coz ur like 60 years old or somthing!

Now generally I'm not a rude person, so i apologize to people i have offended. I was simply stating my view on the subject, and partly i agree with the rest of you. But I just dunno why you think thief 3 is gunna be so crap just because of some changes in the game!

theBlackman
28th Feb 2004, 10:43
You could state your views with less animosity, less use of foul language, and without the opening three letters you started with above.

The TOU for THIS FORUM does not allow that type of posting.

You may, and I stress may, have looked at the TOU. But you did not comprehend what you read or are rudely disregarding, or did not actually READ them.

I say again. Modify your behavior or take your street vulgarity elsewhere. Forget my age, and your lame apology.

Neither has any bearing on the subject of your conduct in someone elses house. IE the EIDOS forums.

coldplay_josh_106
28th Feb 2004, 11:49
You could state your views with less animosity, less use of foul language, and without the opening three letters you started with above.

Very well...

I'm sorry for being rude and disregarding the rules of the forum!
But I still say that people are getting a little overtop about the changes in the game!

theBlackman
28th Feb 2004, 12:03
Originally posted by coldplay_josh_106
Very well...

I'm sorry for being rude and disregarding the rules of the forum!
But I still say that people are getting a little overtop about the changes in the game!

Accepted. They could well be, but they are veteran THIEF players who love the "game" and the atmosphere. They are avid fans and very protective of the game.

So, to some it may appear "over the top". Give them a little slack, and state your views, they can respect your position, if, and only if you respect theirs. A difference of opinion is to be expected.

At this point none of us are "right". Only the game itself will prove one point or the other, but still, major changes do affect game play and enjoyment for those faithful fans.

Newcomers to the game won't notice any difference. But as they are newcomers, they have no basis for judgement.

I'll wait and see. But when the designers speak of major revisions and the removal of many of the options and actions that made THIEF the game it was, I do begin to worry. :D

coldplay_josh_106
28th Feb 2004, 15:00
Accepted. They could well be, but they are veteran THIEF players who love the "game" and the atmosphere. They are avid fans and very protective of the game.

I am also a veteran Thief player man, I been playing thief ever sinse the dark project came out!

All im saying is that im keeping open minded about the new game and trying not to let all the bad opinions everyone else has put me off.

I kind of agree that SPECTOR maybe ruining it abit!

theBlackman
28th Feb 2004, 18:08
None said you were not a player, nor that you were a newcomer to the game.

But as it goes.

Drop it, and bear with opposing opinions.

Peter_Smith
28th Feb 2004, 20:23
Looks like I missed all the action.:rolleyes: Thanks, theBlackman, for helping to maintain order.:)

coldplay_josh_106,

I understand that you have apologized. Fine. Still, you need to know that you were clearly out of line. Any member in good standing has the right to ask others to obey the forum rules. Language such as you used and insulting other members is not acceptable. Saying that the rules do not matter is unacceptable. Please read the rules carefully, if you have not already done so, and adhere to them in the future. We try to stay a step above most internet forums in decorum and civil discourse. That is why the regular members keep coming back here. It is a haven from that kind of trash. Good day. :)


EDIT: Thread closed.