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View Full Version : Thief 3 Developer: "To ghost T3 you need to be very good"



Zaccheus
26th Feb 2004, 23:50
From the ION forum (http://66.193.119.177/index.php?showtopic=208645&view=findpost&p=271412)



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QUOTE (Chade @ Feb 24 2004, 08:57 PM)
You say you've been targetting ghosting from day one. Which is cool. BUT: In my experience, most ghosting missions turn out to be very easy to sneak through using standard methods. How can you ensure this won't happen in thief 3?

And speaking of which:

Is there anything you're doing to encourage less fanatical thief fan to try out some tougher modes of play? How do you think the optional difficulty options encourage this?
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I said it's been a design goal to make it possible.

...

So it's possible, but not statistically probable.

In order to (theoretically) sneak through our entire game without entering combat, you'd have to be pretty good, and disciplined. To do so without being caught at all, you would have to be very, very good.

Have fun, guys !
:cool:

tealsmith
27th Feb 2004, 00:17
You had to be very good to ghost all of T: TDP and T2. As such, this should be expected.

Old Man
27th Feb 2004, 00:21
I wonder if that is "very good" a al XBox or "very good" a la PC? I suspect there's a big difference.

Jareware
27th Feb 2004, 11:34
I'm with Old Man. And I believe in the same thread null said it to be possible to also complete the game by killing off every single AI encountered. I call that bad news. :(

PS. It might also have been in the recent Gamespot preview. And come from Warren himself.


-JR-

Zaccheus
27th Feb 2004, 13:31
No kill objective aside - you could do that in T1 & T2 as well.
:)


Old Man said:
I wonder if that is "very good" a7 al XBox or "very good" a la PC? I suspect there's a big difference.
Yes, but from what I have seen, you are very good.
:)

John D.
27th Feb 2004, 14:03
I like to knock out everyone, so a level's 'ghostability' doesnt really apply to how I play. But I do hope that T3 will have as many ways of playing as T1 and 2.

BTW-Zacch did you get my e-mail about your FM?:)

Old Man
27th Feb 2004, 17:06
Since I don't console I'm assuming a PC player can better an XBoxer without working up a sweat. In sneaksie mode anyway. My point is, if null was referring to being "very good" from a console point of view, then a PC player could even become bored with the ease it might be Ghosted on the PC. Sure, console players might be better at hacking and slashing like arcade games -- twitch, twitch -- but that doesn't relate to remaining unseen and unheard, Ghosting, in any way, shape, or form. I could be wrong. Probably should just reserve judgement. Or go out and get an XBox so I know what I'm talking about. :-| Also, saying one must be very good to sneak through is encouraging. He didn't say it couldn't be done. Let's see some ADDer put together a paragraph like this. ;-)

Acronomic
27th Feb 2004, 17:46
Originally posted by Old Man
I wonder if that is "very good" a al XBox or "very good" a la PC? I suspect there's a big difference.

How? Sorry, not trying to be rude, but I just want to know.

tealsmith
27th Feb 2004, 18:06
Originally posted by Old Man
Since I don't console I'm assuming a PC player can better an XBoxer without working up a sweat. In sneaksie mode anyway. My point is, if null was referring to being "very good" from a console point of view, then a PC player could even become bored with the ease it might be Ghosted on the PC. Sure, console players might be better at hacking and slashing like arcade games -- twitch, twitch -- but that doesn't relate to remaining unseen and unheard, Ghosting, in any way, shape, or form. I could be wrong. Probably should just reserve judgement. Or go out and get an XBox so I know what I'm talking about. :-| Also, saying one must be very good to sneak through is encouraging. He didn't say it couldn't be done. Let's see some ADDer put together a paragraph like this. ;-)

I'm actually quite surprised at the stereotypical views I find on this board pertaining to console gamers. I myself use PC and have been gaming on consoles for a long time. The idea that console gamers are only good for 'hacking and slashing like arcade games' is completely false. If that were the casew, then we wouldn't have games like Splinter Cell, or Metal Gear Solid. There wouldn't be console games like Prince of Persia, Beyond Good & Evil, Gran Turismo, or fantastic FPSs like Halo, Timesplitters, or Medal of Honor (which originated on the PS1). I fully agree with anyone who says that Thief is best played on the PC, no doubt. But like you said in the end, at least try console gaming before you pass judgement.

Old Man
27th Feb 2004, 19:11
(o,o)

wipeoutxl21
27th Feb 2004, 19:21
So is this to say that the game will be more combat oriented? Since its nearly impossible to ghost it you will be forced into combat situations? I guess we wait and see!

Mr. Perfect
27th Feb 2004, 19:38
Not necesarily. Another thing the Devs said was that fighting more then one person at a time was basicly suicide, so you're not going to go running around shouting "en gaurd!".

Besides when you got spotted in T1 or T2, how often did you run off and find a good hiding spot for a while? I'd say that's what we all do most of the time. :)

Orumph
29th Feb 2004, 18:04
Teal, we are talking about FPS's. Like Halo and Medal of Honor. MOH really is terrible on console. The PC version is so much better.

Granted, Console has it's place for many games. Racing being one of them.

Console falls very very short when it comes to FPS type games.
The control is slow and inaccurate. This is a known fact. Turok for SNES years ago was ok on console, but could have been so much more on PC. There wasn't nearly as many enemies as there could have been. And that's cause the controls are just way to slow. I mean if they tried deving a game like Turok for PC, it would be dull without adding atleast twice as many baddies. That is why the large majority of us have a problem with Console FPS to PC ports. The coding is so different between the 2.
This is also a reason why Turok Arena blew chunks so bad. Just way to slow response from game pads.

Halo would have been so much better on PC first development. It could have rivaled UT2003 had it been done right. But the PC release for Halo is still not up to par with what it could/should have been. Halo (X) produced in it's current form will never be able to rival any Unreal Tournament (XXXX). Halo may have some pretty colors and stuff, but it's playability will never match anything done for PC. Well, untill consoles can be upgradable like a PC, with an accuracy system that rivals Keyboard/Mouse. (Hmm, back to PC?) If they don't, then FPS's will always be better when produced on PC first. This will all be realised when Doom 3 and HL2 hit the shelves. If they did HL2 right. Large Levels with all the detail and abilities they claim are possible. HL2 may have an X-Box release, but it wasn't coded for X-box, it will be ported over. That's the difference. And the PC version is going to rock. Had it been done the other way around, then we would have another Halo/DX2. Not to mention that HL2 on X-Box is going to be handicapped to some extent once ported over. X-Box won't be able to handle all that will be done with the PC release. That's my theory anyway. I could be wrong. But I doubt it.

These are just some of the reasons for the animosity towards console. Console limitations are the biggest problem. If you aren't an avid FPS gamer on PC. You would not understand this.

Comparing the game play of Halo to UT2003 or BF1942 or even MOH. Halo is seriously retarded and DX2 is a Chihuahua trying to pull a dead horse off the road all by itself.

tealsmith
29th Feb 2004, 18:25
Originally posted by Orumph
Teal, we are talking about FPS's. Like Halo and Medal of Honor. MOH really is terrible on console. The PC version is so much better.

Sorry, but I'd have to disagree there.

Medal of Honor was original on the PS1 in 1999. It was a fantastic game, and so was it's follow up, Underground. The Frontline on PS2 and Allied Assault came out at the same time. Both are fantastic games, the only up Allied Assault has is the fact that it's on a PC. Frontline wasn't terrible, it was a fantastic game.