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rikbriant
26th Feb 2004, 21:26
Ok, there have been polls here before, but I for one would like to see how many people would like to see a patch to allow for choice of camer angle rather than the hideously uncontrolable thing that thae basic game has been gifted with.....

You never know it MIGHT just make the gamplay almost bearable.. :)

AndaPanda
26th Feb 2004, 21:34
I don't think a camera patch CAN be released, as I'm almost sure the developers would have to modify the whole game engine to do that. And anyway, I don't care. The camera works fine for me. It just takes a little bit of getting used to.

Omni_Sephiroth
27th Feb 2004, 06:37
It dosent bother me its just thecamera need a little getting used to but its still good.

The Angel of Death
27th Feb 2004, 07:51
i just bought lokd & it dosent bother me that mutch 1st it did but after 20 min i got use 2 it

blincoln
27th Feb 2004, 09:17
http://forums.eidosgames.com/search.php?s=&action=showresults&searchid=65086&sortby=lastpost&sortorder=descending

mortaniusgod
27th Feb 2004, 12:27
Originally posted by blincoln
http://forums.eidosgames.com/search.php?s=&action=showresults&searchid=65086&sortby=lastpost&sortorder=descending
LOL

Reaper007
27th Feb 2004, 12:54
Chris (Board mod & lead LoK tester) has said that the camera cannot be changed by a patch. The camera is mostlikely tied directly into the game engine, which would require a huge change. So in other words this thread is totally usless.

Reaper007

PS: If you play with a gamepad (PS2 Dualshock) the camera is great!

rikbriant
27th Feb 2004, 15:56
All of which just proves the point that very little (if any)testing was done on the PC version, and the fact that the development company couldnt give a dam about playability, only profit.
This sort of "give them anything thats labeled LoK" attitude is not only unprofesional, but in the long run is going to loose custom.

Jeffers
27th Feb 2004, 18:18
Originally posted by rikbriant
All of which just proves the point that very little (if any)testing was done on the PC version, and the fact that the development company couldnt give a dam about playability, only profit.
This sort of "give them anything thats labeled LoK" attitude is not only unprofesional, but in the long run is going to loose custom.

Chris stated in the thread when the PC version was going to be released in the US that the game was going to make a loss for Eidos, not a profit.

Jeffers

blincoln
27th Feb 2004, 22:20
It doesn't matter if it was tested on the PC or not, in this case. Since you're obviously not going to read any of the threads where I've said this before (which is why I provided that link), I will say it again:

Switching the camera to the follow-cam makes the game unplayable. If you really want to see for yourself, find a friend with the PS2 version and a cheat device, and use the codes on my site.

Lär
27th Feb 2004, 23:07
Originally posted by Jeffers
Chris stated in the thread when the PC version was going to be released in the US that the game was going to make a loss for Eidos, not a profit.
:rolleyes:
I really wish people would stop using this as part of the "pro-camera" side of the debate. IMHO, if Defiance were released on all platforms simultaeously, the PC version would have outsold the consoles. If you really want to get down to the nitty-gritty, Defiance, as a whole, was a total bomb here in North America. That too has been stated by the Eidos finance peeps.


Orginally posted by blincoln
Switching the camera to the follow-cam makes the game unplayable. If you really want to see for yourself, find a friend with the PS2 version and a cheat device, and use the codes on my site.
I have to agree with Blinc here. Although I haven't actually seen the "follow cam" for Defiance, I think it would be useless for most of the game, especially during combat. However, the "follow cam" view may have helped with some of the jump sequences.


Originally posted by Reaper007
If you play with a gamepad (PS2 Dualshock) the camera is great!
I agree 100%. A good gamepad works wonders for this game. Also, if you have your keyboard configured "just right", it can prove to be a good control device as well. Forget about the mouse, it's useless. Take a look at this thread (http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=33964), and try my keyboard config suggestion.

Later! :D

rikbriant
28th Feb 2004, 01:55
Originally posted by Lär
:rolleyes:
I really wish people would stop using this as part of the "pro-camera" side of the debate. IMHO, if Defiance were released on all platforms simultaeously, the PC version would have outsold the consoles. If you really want to get down to the nitty-gritty, Defiance, as a whole, was a total bomb here in North America. That too has been stated by the Eidos finance peeps.


I have to agree with Blinc here. Although I haven't actually seen the "follow cam" for Defiance, I think it would be useless for most of the game, especially during combat. However, the "follow cam" view may have helped with some of the jump sequences.


I agree 100%. A good gamepad works wonders for this game. Also, if you have your keyboard configured "just right", it can prove to be a good control device as well. Forget about the mouse, it's useless. Take a look at this thread (http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=33964), and try my keyboard config suggestion.

Later! :D

Ill give your keyboard ONLY config a go...I have no choice realy.. but that does NOT subtract from the fact that this game has NOT been developed for use with a mouse controlable camera... and a keypad controlable action physhic,as in BO2..I HATED BO2 controls at the first boss...but after that I understood and used the split camera(mouse)/control(keyboard) device to my advantage...Its just that it doesnt exist in Defiance ,and I feel that this is a step BACKWARDS....:(

blincoln
28th Feb 2004, 05:57
IMHO, if Defiance were released on all platforms simultaeously, the PC version would have outsold the consoles.

No, it wouldn't. Eidos has obviously been paying attention to the sales of the PC versions of SR, SR2, and BO2, and comparing them to the console versions. That is how they knew beforehand that a North American PC release would lose money.

The console market is *much* larger than the PC games market now. I am not saying this as a console fanboy - I've played computer games for almost two decades. The real money is - except for huge sellers like the top FPS games on PC - in consoles now.


that does NOT subtract from the fact that this game has NOT been developed for use with a mouse controlable camera

You're right. Which is why the box has a recommendation that you play it with a dual analogue stick-equipped gamepad =).

Lär
28th Feb 2004, 17:43
Originally posted by blincoln
No, it wouldn't. Eidos has obviously been paying attention to the sales of the PC versions of SR, SR2, and BO2, and comparing them to the console versions. That is how they knew beforehand that a North American PC release would lose money.

I really don't mean to razz on ya, but what part of the word "simultaneously" (although I misspelled it earlier, oops :eek: ) did you not understand?? It is a well known fact that all LoK games were released on console first, then ported to PC shortly thereafter. With that in mind, it is highly likely that they would sell more console versions than PC. If North American consumers were given the choice in the beginning, I honestly feel that the PC version would prevail. Why?? The sheer beauty of Defiance on the PC. Technology wise, the PS2 and Xbox are way outdated, and can never match the high resolution splendor that a good PC offers. Hell, you don't even need "top of the line" to get a better looking game than the consoles.

So, if we are to conform to CDs, Eidos', and your way of thinking, then the next LoK game should not be released in North America at all. The truth remains, Defiance, on ALL platforms, was not a big seller here in the States and Canada. It's a fact that can not be denounced. It saddens me to see this happen, 'cause I'm a longtime fan (as opposed to hardcore fan) of the series. :cool:

Later! :D

blincoln
29th Feb 2004, 00:44
This is obviously an argument that's going to go nowhere. It has nothing to do with a simultaneous release.

Console games vastly outsell PC games - the worldwide market for them is ten times more profitable (http://www.avault.com/news/displaynews.asp?story=1272004-101656).

Even on consoles, Defiance seems to have done well, but it wasn't a smash hit. I would guess there have been something like 250,000 copies sold for the PS2 and Xbox worldwide. That would mean that if sales were in line with other titles, only something like 25,000-30,000 have sold for the PC, which is a low number for a major release. I would personally bet on there having been a lot fewer of the PC version sold than that.

You can debate the reasons as much as you like, but money is what allows the series to continue. I personally don't think Eidos should bother with a PC port of the next game. It just seems to be dragging them down.

Lär
29th Feb 2004, 01:50
I've read the very same article a couple of weeks ago. As I have stated before, there is only one reason why console games, as a whole, outsale PC games; CHOICE!! Developers breed console games like rabbits!! There seems to be a never ending supply. Oh yeah, let's not forget about the rental places either. To top it off, the Japanese play a major role in console gaming. How many Final Fantasy games are they up to now?? Eleven, twelve?? :rolleyes:

Defiance is in a genre that is rarely played on consoles anymore. Sports, racing, and those goofy looking anime style games seem to take the top honors. Furthermore, Defiance is a game rich in enviromental detail, and PC's make games like this really shine. You can't get those pretty screenshots on a console... ;)

Later! :D

WraithStar
14th Mar 2004, 02:36
I really hope that the next LOK game is released for PC. I absolutely refuse to buy a console because I hate the control pads and I see no reason to waste the money when I like the PC much better anyway. I've gotten over not having Starcraft Ghost (unless Blizzard changes its mind and makes a PC version) and, I really hate to say this, but if it came to it, I would also miss out on LOK 6 if there was not a PC version. It really annoys me when people say, "Ha, ha, ha, we have consoles so just because the console version is always released first, we have ours and we're happy. Now we're going to say you can't have yours." It's ultimately up to Crystal and Eidos, so hopefully they will decide to release a PC version and maybe with a little advertising it could do very well.

DarthVengeant
14th Mar 2004, 04:36
Playing the PC version, I would say the camera screws my gameplay up at least half the time. Trying to jump and guage where you are sometimes becomes unnerving. I dont know HOW many times I have fallen because of the freakin bad camera angles. Youd think they could do better after how well the first Soul Reaver game was.

Zeph
14th Mar 2004, 16:29
Patch for the camera does not need one but yes one for the controls of the game, for example: Kain is stopped in front of camera, squeeze the arrow of the right it to walk for the right and camera dumb and shows it running for front of new camera. but if I will have that to jump for the right I have that to stop and to walk right it and to jump. In certain points this confuses, mainly in the Vorador Mansion.

nichie14
19th Mar 2004, 00:37
I've read the very same article a couple of weeks ago. As I have stated before, there is only one reason why console games, as a whole, outsale PC games; CHOICE!! Developers breed console games like rabbits!! There seems to be a never ending supply. Oh yeah, let's not forget about the rental places either. To top it off, the Japanese play a major role in console gaming. How many Final Fantasy games are they up to now?? Eleven, twelve??

Defiance is in a genre that is rarely played on consoles anymore. Sports, racing, and those goofy looking anime style games seem to take the top honors. Furthermore, Defiance is a game rich in enviromental detail, and PC's make games like this really shine. You can't get those pretty screenshots on a console...

Later!


Last edited by Lär on 02-29-2004 at 01:58 AM
Dear my friend Laar,
LAr i totally agree with you man. I hope that there's a next installment of the Lok series on the PC. Well it's obvious from the start that Defiance won't receive well.
1. Firstly, a lot of gamers are looking for graphics these days. Deviance's graphics are great but not great enough compare to other games such as SplinterCell or Prince of Persia, MetalGearII, etc. Games with good graphics tend to do well and dominate the market. For example, which game sells better Madden2004 or NFL2k4. Great gamplay for both but Madden had better graphics, thus, it sells much better. The LOK series needs a new engine that can compete. With great graphics, can it only invite great anticipation from fans,newcomers, and critics a like. Defiance didn't generate any anticipation from the gaming public except for fans of the series. In order to attract that, you must have good graphics. GRAPHICS ARE THE ESSENCE OF SUCCESS in the gaming industry. If Ninja Gaiden didn't have that nice graphics, do you think that it would even receive that much of attention from the public? Look at Shinobi for the PS2, it has a trademark name but with mediore grahics, people didn't pay that much attention to it. The first Soul Reaver, from what i heard, sell much better. since back then, Soul Reaver's graphics were superior than other games which attracted to many people.
2. Secondly, with that in mind, why do you think console games don't sell well with PC users. Console game totally lack graphics that can compete with PC games. When it comes to action/rpg games, you must have great grahics on par with other top PC games. Look how much attention FarCry or Doom III is receiving right now with their graphics. Imagine how many people would go out and buy even if the gameplay is sub par.
WELL THIS IS MY VIEW, HOWEVER, YOUR OPINIONS MAY DIFFER

bruce lee

Omni_Sephiroth
21st Mar 2004, 06:57
Every Lok Insallment has been on PC why stop now?

babifrence
23rd Mar 2004, 02:54
Hiya Peeps,


Originally posted by blincoln
I personally don't think Eidos should bother with a PC port of the next game. It just seems to be dragging them down.

Please dont say that, if Eidos/CD stopped making LoK games for the PC I would be deeply disappointed and annoyed. I have been a big fan of LoK since roughly March/April 2003 and I have completed every game in the series on the PC. If it stopped being manufactured (at least in the UK for the PC) I would be almost offended. Its like being robbed of something you never really asked for. It shouldnt be a privelage to port the LoK games on PC, it should be an obligation because they started porting games from the very beginning, starting with BO1 in 1996, why should they stop now... money? I know they arnt a charity, but they owe the fans the freedom to buy the whole series for any console/gaming system BECAUSE they decided to start the series for specific console/gaming system so they should finish it with the same freedom too.


PEACE OUT !!!


PS I voted yes to a camera patch but I know its not possible as it is tangled deep inside the games core programming (IMHO).

Umah Bloodomen
23rd Mar 2004, 03:50
Originally posted by babifrence
Please dont say that, if Eidos/CD stopped making LoK games for the PC I would be deeply disappointed and annoyed. I have been a big fan of LoK since roughly March/April 2003 and I have completed every game in the series on the PC. If it stopped being manufactured (at least in the UK for the PC) I would be almost offended. Its like being robbed of something you never really asked for. It shouldnt be a privelage to port the LoK games on PC, it should be an obligation because they started porting games from the very beginning, starting with BO1 in 1996, why should they stop now... money? I know they arnt a charity, but they owe the fans the freedom to buy the whole series for any console/gaming system BECAUSE they decided to start the series for specific console/gaming system so they should finish it with the same freedom too.


If Eidos' ability to do legitimate business by porting their titles to the PC wasn't being negatively effected in this "digital age", then the prospects of continuing to port to the PC would be good. However, the truth of the matter is, their business is being negatively effected and the prospects of continuing to port to the PC are becoming bleaker by the day. I disagree with your sentiments regarding privilege vs. obligation. No one should be "obligated" to facilitate their own demise. The problems facing the entertainment industry today were not as prevalent back in 1996 when Blood Omen was released. While you claim they "owe the fans..." the fact of the matter is that they don't, especially when a majority of them are taking advantage of their services. It's not Eidos' (or any other company for that mater) fault for considering this course of action (no longer porting to the PC), it's society's fault. (Perhaps not as a whole, but a large portion of it is anyway). Eidos is being backed into a corner that will eventually cause them to make a decision to "do or die". Money is an issue, however the financial aspect of this dilemma isn't limited to the profit-making aspect of it. You have the livelihoods of the developers themselves to consider, as well as the budgets for producing the games for any platform. It's really a sad state of affairs, IMO.

With that being said, I'd like to give the benefit of the doubt that this discussion, should it continue, will remain constructive. I really don't enjoy closing real-world discussions however am prepared to do so if it degenerates into overly volatile responses and/or (in this case) advocation threads for illegal practices.

Thanks. :)

EDIT: Slight clarification.

Tes
27th Mar 2004, 20:20
Well if that is the case then I'm off to buy a PS2... or 3, if that one happens to come out. I'm a PC player, but I don't make a fuss about such things.

That reminds me; Is there any news one which console the next LoK game will most likely be?

Umah Bloodomen
28th Mar 2004, 21:33
Originally posted by Tes
That reminds me; Is there any news one which console the next LoK game will most likely be?

Nothing other than the fact there are plans for another title and that it currently in the works have been released. If/when more information becomes available, it will be posted in the forums accordingly. :)