PDA

View Full Version : [SPOILER] The Seer



Omni_Sephiroth
24th Feb 2004, 12:10
My Question is about this Q&A from thelostworlds.net
Q: Why were the Hylden exempt from the wheel? The Seer and the Builder in Blood Omen 2 both appeared to have immortality. If so, is this what made them a threat to the Elder before being banished?
A: Most of the history of the Hylden has not been revealed yet, but it will be eventually.

The Seer is "an extremely powerful and mysterious Hylden." More of her story may appear in a future game. She *appears* to have escaped the binding.

The Builder was exempted from aging because he was in the Eternal Prison - where the condemned could be punished for all time.

see how it says that the seer *appears* to have escaped the binding can anyone elaborate on this?

Vampmaster
24th Feb 2004, 17:21
Maybe she's from a time in the future after the hylden are released or from the past before they were banished. One thing I am almost certain of is that she opposes the Hylden Lord and does not want to wipe out the vampires. Most of the people who played BO2 will agree with that, however her intentions as well (as the fact that she is free from the binding) do have implications for the fate of the hylden. By this I mean whether it is safe to release them from the dimension. The vampires always thought the hylden were the enemy and because of their madness, the hylden bound in the dimension have forgotten all about the true enemy, except perhaps for the Seer.

If she's in the next game, I think she'd be trying to free the hylden, but Kain is against this, so she's his enemy in this respect but still wants to get rid of the EG. Then later they find some sort of resolution and Kain performs the redeeming act of the vampires by releasing the hylden and then the Seer performs the redeeming act of the hylden by having them aid Kain and fight the EGs agents instead of the vampires. I think the demons are also the EGs agents and that the reason you get a soul from them in SR2, but not Defiance is another punishment for Raziel.

I'm also wondering if Vorador has anything to do with her being unbound since she owed him a favour. (Maybe she seduced him :p)

mortaniusgod
24th Feb 2004, 18:18
It's hard to elaborate on this subject, since we don't have enough information. Anything you read on this thread will probably be wrong.
We'll just have to wait until the next game.

Umah Bloodomen
24th Feb 2004, 21:29
Originally posted by mortaniusgod
It's hard to elaborate on this subject, since we don't have enough information. Anything you read on this thread will probably be wrong.
We'll just have to wait until the next game.

The imagination is limitless. Speculation is often quite entertaining based on even the smallest scraps of information presented. Besides, you never know just who might be reading. ;)

mortaniusgod
24th Feb 2004, 21:38
oh, there's no doubt about that! I just hope they are not reading the, let's call it "too imaginative" ideas (like the talking soul reaver! :p )

Raptor3k
25th Feb 2004, 01:00
I have an idea way she was "Spared" Maybe she was on the vampires side, and was also curesed like the rest of them...

Umah Bloodomen
25th Feb 2004, 01:02
I'm also quite partial to the asylum notion. :)

warpsavant
25th Feb 2004, 01:26
The Seer could simply be the only female Hylden we've seen. She doesn't look that different from the other Hylden we encounter in BO2. i.e. Meaning she broke through with her cousin, the Sarafan Lord.

Maybe she was banished and broke through on her own, somehow, somewhen. "Extremely powerfull and mysterious"

I don't see how she could've escaped the binding. The vampires say, "We will banish all the Hylden except you, you and you!" That just doesn't jive with me, I think the banishing was an all or none deal. If she was a hybrid, I could see that saving her from the binding, but, this is not possible since they weren't really "vampires" until after the binding. Or in the middle of, if you want to be technical.

Omni_Sephiroth
25th Feb 2004, 05:21
The bit i wanna know about is she *appears* to escaped wich makes me wonder is she is still there, no that cant be though! arrrrrrrr my head hert :( but i know it will be explaned so ill just rest ashored that it will all be explaned

Kainster
25th Feb 2004, 05:50
Maybe the Seer is half Hylden and half vampire and wants to see peace between the two races. While that would be an interesting backstory though, I hope it doesnt lead to both races making peace. That would be incredibly dull and lousy. An easy way out as far as ending the series goes. Much like Matrix Reloaded and Matrix Revolutions (what a waste of life those movies were. 5 hours of my life I'll never get back).

The Necronoir
25th Feb 2004, 06:19
An Interesting development I'd like to see in a future LOK game is that if Kain revisits his crumbled empire it is revealed that the Seer was in fact that Priestess originally concieved to be present in Soul Reaver. If you think about it carefully it could really work, and have some interesting implications.

For one, the human's attitude toward her in BO2 and her apparent willingness to aid Kain means she would fit into the role of an underground element in the Human Citadel, delivering victims for his use and perhaps providing counsel and aid in Kain's attempts to reclaim his destiny. After all she seemd to sense something in him, or in store for him, which cause her to change her initial reaction to him.

I think the next LOK game should see Kain resume his quest sometime after BO2, explaining why Vorador is alive, what happens to him between that time and when Kain establishes his empire, what possible differences the effect of SR2 and Defiance has had on the SR1 era on the new timeline (eg is the place crawling with Hylden seeing as there are no Vampire caretakers in Nosgoth anymore, as well as the idea explained above.

Vampmaster
25th Feb 2004, 16:11
Again with the preistess? *sighs* Traces of Turel were left in the story and we wanted them resolved, but the preistess was completely cut. Why does everyone want her in the game so badly?

The only way I could see there being peace between the races is if Kain conquered the hylden, which in my opinion is preferable to genocide. I don't think they should be banished because it was the vampires that started the wars, however their disputes should be controled by kain so that there is some sort of balance and they don't get out of control.

EDIT: PS, read my signiture.

Woetothecongoured
25th Feb 2004, 18:11
The Builder was exempted from aging because he was in the Eternal Prison - where the condemned could be punished for all time.
ahhhh, so the hylden can age hmmmmmmm

van_HellSing PL
25th Feb 2004, 18:21
Again with the preistess? *sighs* Traces of Turel were left in the story and we wanted them resolved, but the preistess was completely cut. Why does everyone want her in the game so badly? Ah, she may have been cut from the games, but she's still in the comic book! :p

The Necronoir
26th Feb 2004, 06:14
So what if she was cut? And as for traces, what do you call the entire Human Citadel area, which was largely pointless without this section of the story.

My point is if two loose ends could be explained interestingly and compellingly through this means why should you have anything against it? After all that's all they did with Hash'Ak'Gik and Turel.

It's not like I'm dying to have the priestess in it just for the sake of it, but if it could be done well, like this, and include some more background on a little explored or explained area of SR1 and BO2 (the Human Citadel and The Seer) I think that most LOK fans would embrace it enthusiastically.

a74gh83
26th Feb 2004, 09:06
I don't see how she could've escaped the binding. The vampires say, "We will banish all the Hylden except you, you and you!" That just doesn't jive with me, I think the banishing was an all or none deal. If she was a hybrid, I could see that saving her from the binding, but, this is not possible since they weren't really "vampires" until after the binding. Or in the middle of, if you want to be technical.

Going back to SR2, damn haven't done that in a while, Janos said
"The binding must be secured". What if the vamps didn't choose to leave a few hylden behind. What if they couldn't banish the whole race. As a result the hylden that were left unbanished retaliated with the almighty curse. So maybe the seer didn't take part in the curse and thus her presence.
But then again how would they know she didn't take part, so i guess i've torpedoed my own theory. Still maybe someone can salvage something from this

a74gh83
26th Feb 2004, 09:11
Or maybe Vorador and the Seer had a whole forbidden love thing going on? So he finds a way to spare her from the binding, but then things fall apart between them. And all of a sudden she owes vorador a favor?

Vampmaster
26th Feb 2004, 13:16
Well she would owe him if he got her spared.


So what if she was cut? And as for traces, what do you call the entire Human Citadel area, which was largely pointless without this section of the story.

I call it a safe haven for the humans. There has to be some still around or the vampires have nothing to feed on. The majority of them weren't even vampire worshipers like the preistess would have been.

abruptdogma
26th Feb 2004, 14:22
One thing I never got about the seer was that if she is a hylden , then how come kain had to travel to the eternal prison and drink the builders blood in order to destroy the mass. He had already drunk from the seer - suely her blood would have suficed?

and whats all this about her owing vorador a favour? where did that come up?

One other thing. when kain encounterd the de - evolved janos in the device and kain says "that you can return from the dead, gives hope to us all". This seems to be a refernce to kain returning from the dead after the events in defiance rather than his apparent death at the start of blood omen 2. Or maybe not?

HolyMoses
26th Feb 2004, 14:29
Originally posted by abruptdogma
One thing I never got about the seer was that if she is a hylden , then how come kain had to travel to the eternal prison and drink the builders blood in order to destroy the mass. He had already drunk from the seer - suely her blood would have suficed?

and whats all this about her owing vorador a favour? where did that come up?

One other thing. when kain encounterd the de - evolved janos in the device and kain says "that you can return from the dead, gives hope to us all". This seems to be a refernce to kain returning from the dead after the events in defiance rather than his apparent death at the start of blood omen 2. Or maybe not?

Maybe the seer didn't know how to destroy the mass.

Woetothecongoured
26th Feb 2004, 15:28
Yes after the banishment the vamps where cursed by the hylden, if you notice in the murals in soul reaver 2 the reaver was used in the war after there banishment and you know the reaver was fused with vampiric energy, so yes there where hylden still there after the banishment because it was still war after the pillars where summoned

a74gh83
27th Feb 2004, 01:06
time to torpedo vorador sparing the seer
Vamps banish the hylden, remaining hylden cast the curse. As a direct result of the curse the vamp bloodline can no longer be passed on naturally. So we have the 'rebirth' of Vorador as teh first of the 'new' vamps. Before he became a vamp Vorador forged the reaver, as stated in the mural.
Before i go any further, to the torpedo point. Vorador was reborn after the binding, when the curse was in place, and so couldn't have 'spared' the seer from the binding.
Now back to the other point...


Yes after the banishment the vamps where cursed by the hylden, if you notice in the murals in soul reaver 2 the reaver was used in the war after there banishment and you know the reaver was fused with vampiric energy, so yes there where hylden still there after the banishment because it was still war after the pillars where summoned

Now as mentioned in a previous thread in the SR2 forum, we have two reavers depicted in the murals. One has a red Aura, and the other has a Yellow Aura. Previously it was thought the red was the blood reaver, and the yellow was the soul reaver. As I recall i never saw the blood reaver in any of the murals of the vamps fighting the hylden. I could be wrong, but if u check and it is the red reaver then i do believe my dear boy u've proven the hylden weren't completely banished

warpsavant
27th Feb 2004, 04:03
Some of it sounds good, but, the Hylden could not stay in Nosgoth without the Gate open, when Kain closes the Gate its like Raziel hitting the high notes on the sounding pipes. They couldn't survive, even the ruined Pillars was enough to keep them out.

So I don't see how any of the Hylden could've remained/survived after the binding when the Pillars are in perfect condition.

The Seer could've been banished and then found a way back into Nosgoth, but, I would think shed only be able to stay because of Vorador.

I guess its also possible she broke through when the Pillars collapsed, like the rest of them, and was sent back to hell at the End like the rest of them.

a74gh83
27th Feb 2004, 11:26
The hylden that could not survive without the gate had been in the demon dimension for presumably a very long time. That in part could have altered them to the point where they could no longer stay in nosgoth, thus the ending in bo2.
But lets just say that what you said was in fact right warp, some had to have remained for some period of time. Otherwise how could the curse have been 'delivered'? If the binding keeps them out of nosgoth could they have really had enough influence to be able to have afflicted the vamps with the curse outside?

As for the seer, many people have brought up the idea of a hybrid of vamp and hylden. What if she was given the dark gift?

Vampmaster
27th Feb 2004, 11:45
Perhaps she didn't escape the binding. Maybe she's immune to the effects of the demon dimension somehow or perhaps receiving the dark gift allowed her to recover. We also don't know how long the war lasted before the binding. (ie If it was within Voradors lifetime as a human) Vorador was the first human to be turned, but maybe not the first being. Maybe the gate was left open for a time while the hylden were banished gradually before the lock was sealed. It's also possible that the lock wasn't good enough without the key and that the binding was only partially in effect until the Reaver was forged.

warpsavant
27th Feb 2004, 18:59
The Hylden can possess beings in Nosgoths Material realm from their home in the demon realm. Why not inflict the curse from there?

Perhaps, the binding started and the weakest of the Hylden are banished first. It would take some time to banish them all, and perhaps the more powerfull Hylden got together and inflicted the curse just before they were banished, or , maybe they simply perished in the process.


And, Ill say it again. I do not think the Reaver has ANYTHING to do with the binding. The Pillars are the LOCK to keep the Hylden out, but the Reaver is not the KEY to that lock, it is the KEY to the Vampires salvation!

a74gh83
28th Feb 2004, 03:48
Perhaps, the binding started and the weakest of the Hylden are banished first. It would take some time to banish them all, and perhaps the more powerfull Hylden got together and inflicted the curse just before they were banished, or , maybe they simply perished in the process

That what i was getting at.

As for the reaver, ironic isn't it. They forged the blade, and all the neccessary forges so the scion of balance could return the pillars to vampire guardian and presumably wipe out the hylden threat, and the blade can harm the vampires god which insidently is the reason for the whole conflict.

Woetothecongoured
29th Feb 2004, 02:04
Some of it sounds good, but, the Hylden could not stay in Nosgoth without the Gate open, when Kain closes the Gate its like Raziel hitting the high notes on the sounding pipes. They couldn't survive, even the ruined Pillars was enough to keep them out.

So I don't see how any of the Hylden could've remained/survived after the binding when the Pillars are in perfect condition.
Thats because the ones who didnt get banished wasnt effected by the demon realm, its just like when the military here is at war, not all of them are on the front line, most of the army be here in the Usa and units deploy, same case with the hylden, not all could of been in the banishment , some could of been working on experiments while the ones fighting got banished Now as mentioned in a previous thread in the SR2 forum, we have two reavers depicted in the murals. One has a red Aura, and the other has a Yellow Aura. Previously it was thought the red was the blood reaver, and the yellow was the soul reaver. As I recall i never saw the blood reaver in any of the murals of the vamps fighting the hylden. I could be wrong, but if u check and it is the red reaver then i do believe my dear boy u've proven the hylden weren't completely banishedIm pretty sure it was the blood reaver in the war with the ancients and the hylden, Raziel as a wraith didnt get put in the reaver at that time, im pretty sure theres another explanation to the different colors in the mural, i mean the yellow could of stood for the lightning emblem, you just cant assume its the soul reaver when thats out of context, That was in the past when only the blood reaver was made