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Redxiv
24th Feb 2004, 11:48
Just out of curiosity I wonder what everyone else thought of LOK:D please fill in the poll, opinions welcome.:p

legacyofraziel
24th Feb 2004, 13:58
it is an awsome game (even thet i didnt actully played it becose it didnt come here)

hippl5
25th Feb 2004, 02:01
i choose i'll beat the hell out of you, but personally i think it isn't the greatest game but it has the most best best ever in the world story and i don't like it when people say that lok's story sucks!!! its the best story i ever heard. (or played actually)

Shifter
25th Feb 2004, 09:45
what can i say evry thing with kain in it rules

hippiechk
25th Feb 2004, 14:08
I love it! It took the place of Soul Reaver as my all time fave game ever.

But I won't actually beat the crap out of anyone who makes negative comments about it, so I chose "good". I think you should have made an opton for "great".

Redxiv
25th Feb 2004, 15:54
Sorry about the fact that I only put that option and not great, it's simply my way of expressing the fact that I love the game so much.:D

xarax
25th Feb 2004, 21:41
The cinematic camera ruins the gameplay.
The Raziel chapters are way too difficult and confusing (mostly because of the camera doesn't let me see what's what).
Raziel should not have to reimbue with Moon, Light, Air, Fire. Already did that in SR2, so let's have something more interesting for him to do.
Raziel does not automatically regain health in Spectral.
Dying causes a map load, even for Raziel dying in Material and switching to Spectral. Raziel should just shift to spectral like SR1 and SR2.
The new spectral realm physics totally blows.
The spectral realm squids blow chunks.
The jumps can't line up and must be attempted dozens of times.
The whole "rage bar" thing (ala BO2) for Raziel and Kain sucks.
Vorador's mansion design totally sucks.
Kain is not "all powerful" like the advertisements claimed. He lost most of his Dark Gifts and superjump is available only at specific locations.
Kain does not have "mist form", except for passing through gates. No stealth kills.
SR1, SR2, and Defiance Pillars are totally different terrain. Very hard to get oriented to the world layout.
No compass. Why is it so hard to program a compass?
No automap. The Serafan castle thing in Chapter 1 has an extremely confusing layout. I spent hours running around in circles trying to figure out where to go next.
Combo attacks NEVER WORK. I am reduced to using ordinary swipe attacks.

garbagefanuk
25th Feb 2004, 22:24
Pressing a button 3 times in a row can be confusing i guess? LOL am just kidding :p seriously though. There are a number of points i agree with but a few that i don't.

The cimematic camera had its ups and downs. The major parts were the jumps. I remember Voradors mansion was the biggest pain in the butt ever i swear . Jumping from the podium to podium with a camera angle that was bizzare then when u fall having to run right the way through the mansion again. I could never reach the climbable surface for some reason... he just couldn't reach it!

Raziels chapters weren't any harder than Kains, you could look around to a degree to look for things and walls and ledges. The only part of Raziels chapters i found harder was the combat. Kain was alot faster than Raziel in combat and i found him to slow to react.

I agree with this one. It was very tedious having to re-imbue them all again. It dragged the game unnessicarily to reimbue for no reason. The could have just made a few temples with different puzzles for the murials story.

I was ambivilous about this one. On one hand it made the game a little harder with Raziel. No more endless dying and switching realms to regain health, on the other hand it made the game a little too hard. Raziel didn't seem invinsable anymore. Not what i thought he should be.

I had no problem with the physics of the spectral realm. It looked kinda cool. I heard everyone whining about the blur? its not really noticable when ur intent on a something else.

You have to admit, they were a decent distraction from the sluagh... Seen them way to many times, new ones were cool.

This has been answered in the camera issue

I had no problem with the rage bar, to be able to use the abilities at any time would make the game somewhat simple. Think about it. Kain has Dimention Reaver? Then what? Its just endless teleports to kill them all. They wouldn' have a chance and the fact that they included the abilities for the Reavers meant they needed a limit on them?

There was nothing really wrong with the mansion IMO, it was abit big and there was issues of running around for ages with no clue what to do or where to go, but i find it reminesant of SR2 sometimes. I wandered my first time through thinking where do i need to go now? How do i get in there... All Legacy of Kain games have this problem

I was supprised by Kains weakness myself. I thought he'd be able to keep his dark gifts or learn new stuff, besides Reaver imbuements. But he was faster and stronger and he did have TK from the start so it was something. Not like i imagined but it was a start.

One question on this? Did you like BO2? I thought it was terrible. Kain is a mighty Vampire lord. Sneaking around in mist form was somwhat embaressing for him. I'm glad it was straight up rip out throats without sissy hiding.

Well the SR1 & 2 Pillars terrain is totally different from Blood Omen 1. You have to accept that the world won't be identical everytime. It limits the game, have you played Final Fantasy X-2? Its like playing Final Fantasy X with the sucky characters. To copy the world exactly everytime is stagnation. Nothing new will be done.

Hmm compass? To be honest i never used the compass in SR2, compasses are useless really. You know where you have to go, a compass doesn't give u any sense of direction because you pick up the land layout as you play. Since both characters use the same areas you get the hang of it quickly.

I wouldn't have minded a map, i spent just as much time as you wondering where the hell the stupid ouroboros chamber was after i beat Mobius's shadows. But i simply retraced each route until i found it. It shouldn't have took you hours to find your way around even running in circles if you exercise logic and think "I've been in this room" =/

I found the combo's rather easy, its the Tekken thumb you see =) Never loses its touch, i did find it abit hard trying to string new combo's together since the enimes had a habbit of dying when i tried to string a long cool one together.

Ok way longer than i planned but if you read this far... You wasted your time :D Go play Defiance properly this time! :p

Edit: So many spelling and grammer mistakes, probably missed a few but there you go.

Centurion
25th Feb 2004, 23:01
LOK Defiance was a good game, only bad points for me, were that the camera sometimes got in the way and a few platformer bits were annoying.
Other than that, good game! :)

~Cent~

Johnny_anoniem
25th Feb 2004, 23:44
Originally posted by xarax
big list

I find it sad to hear that a fan didn't enjoy the game, but aren't you a bit overreacting?? There isn't such thing as a perfect game and games will always have things you don't like, I could even create a big list with things I don't like about the best games I've ever played, but that doesn't make them bad games does it?? I still love them :D.
Try to see the inner beauty of Defiance behind the things you don't like and I hope you'll eventually respect it! That will only be possible though if you have the patience to try the game again and look behind your negative thoughts! ;)

Apocrypha Roxy
26th Feb 2004, 02:23
-thick accent-

Joo say anythin' bout mah game, I kill joo, si? :D


xarax, you gotta give the game another go. It really is good. You just have to adjust to it.

Besides, I'm playing FFX2 (I agree, they're all sucky except maybe Paine), and it's just ok. It's fustrating. Game is huge, but I've never played FF before. I soooooo prefer LoKD over it.

Bleh. :p

al the darkness
26th Feb 2004, 02:31
I admit i play LOK for story mostly...so it disappointed me (a bit) that DEFIANCE do not contain much plot...

m4xim
26th Feb 2004, 12:03
I would gladly vote for the last option, but... this camera *argh*

hippiechk
26th Feb 2004, 20:15
Originally posted by al the darkness
I admit i play LOK for story mostly...so it disappointed me (a bit) that DEFIANCE do not contain much plot...

Didn't have a plot? Of course it did! And it tied together the plots of the previous games. No offense, but how did you miss that?

Darkmaster
26th Feb 2004, 20:51
This game is the milestone in the series because it combines the story of Kain and Raziel,from this point on it's the climax and ultimately the end of the series*cries*.And I have to mention this,Raziel did complete his destiny,he had to forge the Reaver in Spirit something that wouldn't have happened if Kain didn't save him in the end of SR2.

AndaPanda
26th Feb 2004, 20:57
Well the cameraview was a pain in the rear for me the first time I played the game. I almost threw the game out the window. I don't know where I got the "courage" to play Defiance a second time, but I'm glad I did. The camera presented no problems for me whatsoever this time around. I guess it just takes a little bit of getting used to. :) So right now, I think Defiance is the greatest LOK game yet. SR1 used to be my favorite but not anymore.. I liked Defiance just that bit more :) Therefore, I chose the last option in the poll :p

al the darkness
27th Feb 2004, 00:49
Originally posted by hippiechk
Didn't have a plot? Of course it did! And it tied together the plots of the previous games. No offense, but how did you miss that?
No offense, but how did you miss that word "much"? :)
i think compare to SR2, defiance has the plot continued,but not much, it just a combine point of other games, so its story is short, most we do in the game is fighting and solving puzzels(not watching cinematic scene).

hippiechk
27th Feb 2004, 13:47
I'm not offended. And I didn't miss the word "much". We just have a difference of opinion. No big deal.

But this is a game, not a movie. I thought the cinematics were perfect with over an hours worth, if you watch them all in sequence from beginning to end.

The Angel of Death
27th Feb 2004, 14:16
i just got the game & all ive seen of lokd is greate it 1 of the best lok games ive played but i dont no what i like better defiance or sr2 (those 2 r my 2 fave lok games)

HolyMoses
27th Feb 2004, 14:25
Originally posted by xarax
[list=1] A whoel lot of Junk [list]

Well, first all you can't blame the computer for user error, so that takes out a few of those complaints. Sorry the levels were too hard. I'm sure you can find a less challenging game, like Spongebob Squarepants.

I'm also sorry you didn't like the cinematics, G'luck trying to find an Action Adventure game with out some cinematics in them. And as far as some of the things you listed as "Just plain sucks".... Well, there's no accounting for those who have poor taste.


Anywho, onto my review.
True, that once you get to the 9th Level you're pretty much indestructible, I will agree with xarax that it's kinda weird that you just DIE and not shift back into the spectral realm.
Although i did like many of the reaver upgrades, it got a bit tedious after you found the air forge. I did enjoy the cinematics, so much that last night I sat down to beat Chapter 7 and wound up playing through the game. Musical score was great, camera took a bit getting use to, but it's no problem for me now.

G'Job Eidos and CD

Stormrider
28th Feb 2004, 00:10
Originally posted by Redxiv
Just out of curiosity I wonder what everyone else thought of LOK:D

I thought it was great: the fighting, the environments and everything. Alright, the camera was frustrating sometimes and the fact that jumps often didn't line up (or that the camera suddenly shifted in the middle of a jump) caused some frustration, but overall, great game! A bit short though... I completed it in two days.

Kains_Queen
28th Feb 2004, 18:50
This game totally rox!! I love everything about it especially the TK attacks and special attacks - though it did take me four full plays of the game to actually figure out how to work them rofl!! now i got it down to a fine art :D I shall play it for the 5th time as soon as i have finished playing BO2 for the 6th time hee hee :D I take it in turns to play those two games as they are my faves. Defiance is the ultra fave game. The camera didn't bother me that much in fact i love being able to see Kain and Raziel from the front!! I love that. I love all the little extra things they put in like Raz playing a game in the dust if you don't move him and then getting cross and scrubbing it out lol :D. I love TK attacks and making stone bad guys attack each other ha ha! The only bit i don't like doing is the battle in Avernus Cathedral (those who have finished the game will know which one i mean) Even though i know 'what happens next' It doesn't mean i like doing it!! :(

Fave levels are Kain's levels and he could have done with a teensy bit more gameplay as Raz gets more than him (I know i timed it ha ha!! not really) but a bit more Kain gameplay would have been nice. Roll on the next game i can't wait!

And for everyone out there who says BO2 sucks IT'S NOT TRUE!! it's da coolest game i love it but defiance is cooler

i also think they made Kain look less bad in this one and more of a misguided person tricked at every turn. I feel sorry for Kain and Raz as they both had a raw deal in the end.

Okay i am waffling *shuts up* :D

WraithStar
28th Feb 2004, 21:11
I thought Defiance was excellent.

In response to the question of "Why does Raziel die in Material and not shift to Spectral?" I think that the answer is this: Raziel has completely forsaken the Elder God, so he no longer receives energy while in Spectral. Therefore, if he dies and shifts to Spectral, he'll still have no energy, so it would be pointless.

Holty
28th Feb 2004, 21:28
Jus for those hu wondered y Raz doesn't shift to spectral realm upon defeat, its not hard to work out if you listened to the dialogue;) When Raz betrayed the Elder God he took away Raz's conduits to manifest in the material realm becoz he had no need for Raz to be in the material realm. The only reason Raz was invincible was becoz the Elder was keepin him alive in SR1.

As for Raz chapters bein too hard...HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAH:p

WraithStar
29th Feb 2004, 23:47
I don't know if anyone has mentioned this yet, but I really appreciate the fact that Defiance came with the option to turn on subtitles. I'm not hearing impaired but I often miss key words in games' dialogues (especially late at night when I have to keep the sound low;) ) and I found the subtitles to be a very nice idea.

Dark Abyss
1st Mar 2004, 11:30
The only reason Raz was invincible was becoz the Elder was keepin him alive in SR1.

What does that have to do with it? If the EG would have been able to kill raz, he would have done it in the future, in the past, wherever he wants or whenever he wants. But he couldn't do it for some reason and that really doesn't have to do with the fact that another raz was in the future.

The camera, although sucke, after you get used to it, it's not so bad but it would have been better only to use it during combats.

I loved the spectral world. I don't know why ppl don't like it but it seemed more gruesome, more...spectral, like world meant for the dead and ghosts and stuff like that. It ruled.

About the fact that you had to reimbue the reaver...i didn't like it either but i think that it had to happen because maybe when kain saved raz from the reaver in SR2, something happened to the reaver because the WB was trying to unite with it's counterpart and maybe something happened there.

I also like voradors mansion. I don't know what's your problem man.

By the way, the fact that kain had to sneak in BO2 in myst form might be because he was asleep quite a long time and his full powers where not regained. So it was kind of a let's play it safe for a while just till i eat more cerials or something and get stronger.

Kains_Queen
1st Mar 2004, 11:39
I agree with all of that. I liked Vorador's mansion mainly because when i have got through that it's not long before certain events happen :D

I love the combat, don't mind the camera it's cool when you get used to it. It's nice to be able to get frontal views of caracters.

So I am quite happy with it.

It's an obssession
1st Mar 2004, 21:39
Loved the camera, loved the combat, loved the entire game and I've played it to death and back again. Need I say more?

Cal
5th Mar 2004, 10:18
I would like the option to have the camera disengage from the player and be free-roaming so you can take in a good, sweeping view of your surroundings (not just the FPS view).

Playing the PC version with a gamepad helps, but the camera can still be a bit too stubborn, making you feel 'hemmed-in' by its constraints. LoK6 needs to present the playing with a totally free game experience. Defiance, to me, seems just as much about discovery and adventure as combat, so let's have the freedoms of gameplay to go with it.

After all, what's the point of creating such sumptuous levels if you always feel frustrated in your attempts to drink it all in?

It's an obssession
5th Mar 2004, 21:26
Yeah, did you like the camera in SR2 and BO2? That was better, but somehow I like Defiance's camera, but not as much.
I wonder who the 3 prats were that said "didn't like it'...

howard821
6th Mar 2004, 19:10
Great game awful camera need i say more:D

AndaPanda
6th Mar 2004, 22:08
The camera just needs getting used to. I was so annoyed by it the first time I played the game, mostly because I couldn't do the jumps. Anyway, I struggled and finished the game and was blown away by the story. So I decided to play the game again, and, to my surprise, everything seemed so much easier. I can do the jumps on the second try, if not the first, and I need to play one chapter a day just so I don't finish the whole game in a day. I LOVE the camera. Keep it that way for the next LoK game, please :)

kakarot
7th Mar 2004, 01:06
Originally posted by xarax

The whole "rage bar" thing (ala BO2) for Raziel and Kain sucks.

Vorador's mansion design totally sucks.

i totally disagree with you here. the rage bar thing is a great thing and everything starting from Vorador's mansion is the only reason I go back to play the game over and over again. Wack post..

It's an obssession
7th Mar 2004, 20:03
Camera was great. N-E-E-D I S-A-Y M-O-R-E-? :p

The Angel of Death
10th Mar 2004, 05:17
Originally posted by xarax
The cinematic camera ruins the gameplay.
The Raziel chapters are way too difficult and confusing (mostly because of the camera doesn't let me see what's what).
Raziel should not have to reimbue with Moon, Light, Air, Fire. Already did that in SR2, so let's have something more interesting for him to do.
Raziel does not automatically regain health in Spectral.
Dying causes a map load, even for Raziel dying in Material and switching to Spectral. Raziel should just shift to spectral like SR1 and SR2.
The new spectral realm physics totally blows.
The spectral realm squids blow chunks.
The jumps can't line up and must be attempted dozens of times.
The whole "rage bar" thing (ala BO2) for Raziel and Kain sucks.
Vorador's mansion design totally sucks.
Kain is not "all powerful" like the advertisements claimed. He lost most of his Dark Gifts and superjump is available only at specific locations.
Kain does not have "mist form", except for passing through gates. No stealth kills.
SR1, SR2, and Defiance Pillars are totally different terrain. Very hard to get oriented to the world layout.
No compass. Why is it so hard to program a compass?
No automap. The Serafan castle thing in Chapter 1 has an extremely confusing layout. I spent hours running around in circles trying to figure out where to go next.
Combo attacks NEVER WORK. I am reduced to using ordinary swipe attacks.


i totaly disagree with u

4 & 5) this makes the game more of a challnge
9) it was cool & worked
10) the design was mad even tho i was stuck on voradors mansion 4 ages its a mad house
13) the pillars terrain in in diffrent 4 diffrent timelines eg. sr1 kain built his empire on it
15) the sarafan stronghold was ezey 4 me 1st time i played it i finished the level it was 2 ezy 4 me
16) i got the combo moves 2

Omni_Sephiroth
11th Mar 2004, 07:11
Im going to have to agree with The Angel of Death

on this one :cool:

DevilMayCry
14th Mar 2004, 22:13
The game is great.

Negatives: too short, too easy, sucky camera, Kain is weak (very few abilities) and somewhat slow, Raziel is also weak and too slow for his weakness, many Raziel chapters consisted of visiting of same-looking temples which became a bit borring after a while, no automaps (not THAT necessary, but would have been nice), short, short ... not enought features for Kain and Raziel, combat becomes a bit repetetive.

Positive: everything else. The game on itslef is great, just more polishing and enriching would be nice. Let us hope for LoK6.

nichie14
17th Mar 2004, 02:21
I LIKE EVERYTHING!!! EXCEPT FOR THE STORY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1
OK BE SERIOUS, FOR PEOPLE WHO SAY DEFIANCE HAS THE BEST STORYLINE, DID YOU GUYS COMPLETELY UNDERSTAND THE STORYLINE, THE REASONS TO WHY AND HOW IN REGARDS TO THE EVENTS IN DEFIANCE AND THE STORY OF OTHER LOK GAMES. I'M SURE A LOT OF YOU GUYS CAN'T. LIKE WHAT IT SAYS IN THE GAMESPOT REVIEW, THE STORY LINE IS TOO CONVULOTED AND CONFUSING. I'M LEFT WITH MANY QUESTIONS.


bruce lee

The Angel of Death
17th Mar 2004, 04:28
Originally posted by nichie14
I DID YOU GUYS COMPLETELY UNDERSTAND THE STORYLINE, THE REASONS TO WHY AND HOW IN REGARDS TO THE EVENTS IN DEFIANCE AND THE STORY OF OTHER LOK GAMES. I'M SURE A LOT OF YOU GUYS CAN'T. LIKE WHAT IT SAYS IN THE GAMESPOT REVIEW, THE STORY LINE IS TOO CONVULOTED AND CONFUSING. I'M LEFT WITH MANY QUESTIONS.


bruce lee


i think its left open 4 the next lok game & questions answerd like what happens 2 possesed janos & (this old 1) y is vorador still alive in bo2 when he dies in bo1 & bo2 is set 200 years later (& u ppl who say he was not xercuited in bo1 in sr2 theirs a statue of mobius holding vorador's head

WraithStar
19th Mar 2004, 07:49
I think I understood the story very well. Although, come to think of it, my mind is always confused and convoluted:D. That's probably why it made sense to me:) .

nichie14
21st Mar 2004, 05:59
Hi ladies and gentleman!!! Here's some suggestions for people who didn't find the game fun!! Play the whole game over again, this time since you know where to go and won't get lost anymore, i think your experience the second time around would be more amusing. It was sure amusing for me my second time. I actually like it ,gameplay-wise, more than ever before.

bruce lee

Kains_Queen
23rd Mar 2004, 11:55
You're contradicting yourself......


I LIKE EVERYTHING!!! EXCEPT FOR THE STORY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

So how can you say go play it again because i loved it? I don't get it :confused: The whole thing about Legacy of Kain is that it's a Story based game so if you hate the story then why bother?????

nichie14
24th Mar 2004, 02:55
You are missing a point i made. I said I like the gameplay. I didn't say about the story. Like what i said before, i like everything except for the graphics. Yep, the combat system is awesome!!

love and respect

AKA Malek of Nosgion of America

WraithStar
24th Mar 2004, 22:59
You keep saying that Defiance had crappy graphics. What video setting did you have it on? On my PC, the graphics were absolutely amazing. Maybe you can set it to a higher resolution.

nichie14
25th Mar 2004, 00:32
Oopsss!! i did not meant the graphics ha hah a. i meant the story. I only like the story a little bit since my Raziel die in the end of Kain.

Bruce Lee AKA Malek of Nosgion of America

Dark_Raziel01
26th Mar 2004, 07:40
defiance is 1 of the best games ive ever played i just wish the game could be abit longer & kain dident have sutch a big role as raziel but i dont no what i like more soul reaver 2 or defiance

Camus Audron
26th Mar 2004, 07:55
well niche, I think you Are pretty off choosing lok if you like the plot only as long as what you wished happened actually happens. I think a lok fan would be more interested in the more complex concepts that are laid out troughout the storytelling, and all the implications the events on the game have, rather than wether or not their hero gets to save the day or whatever.

Dark Abyss
26th Mar 2004, 12:52
Tell me nitchie, what games do you usually play. I would like to know this cus you really don't have your mind made up whether you like LOK or not. Maybe it's just my opinion but plz do this if you are kind. OK. No hard feelings.

strandg
30th Mar 2004, 16:56
I'd like to respond.. just got a ps2, and this was my first game. I loved the game, and was enamored by the graphics and story line. Untilllllll... I ran into what seems to be the reoccuring and only glitch in the game... (after heart seeker and blood drinker).. finding a door between the grated window of re-entering the mansion, and the next available conduit)... was a reoccuring issue i saw with many people, and a person has to restart the level or game according to where they saved... wasn't expecting this issue, so would have to restart the entire thing... where i only have the op to play in small increments, i opted to return the game so that i could play something new... am quite discouraged, because like i said, really liked it, and now the game i have sucks... is a game to be owned-not rented