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View Full Version : Where's Garret's Cloak?????????



Vrbas
18th Feb 2004, 22:44
Whenever i saw a video, either it be a cutscene or a trailer, Garret always had his cape on. Where is it now? I really hope they add that little detail in b\c what would a thief be without his cloak? Plus, in my opinion he looks alot more of a thief with it on. When i look at him without it, i feel as if something is missing. just a little thought.

HOC
18th Feb 2004, 23:39
guess they removed it for the third person perspective. afterall, who would want a behind the glob of black view?

SNAKE-LORD
18th Feb 2004, 23:40
yikes no cloak where is garret gonna put all his stuff.
make that double yikes.

Mr. Perfect
19th Feb 2004, 00:42
Yeah, he really doesn't look right without it, does he?:(

Mike Fang
19th Feb 2004, 02:22
Maybe he tucks it into his backpack or something so he doesn't get it caught in doors while he's sneakin' around.

kfmccall
19th Feb 2004, 03:11
lol, imagine sneaking around with something like the cloak that Spawn is famous for (ecspecially from the movie a few years back), only a few hundred feet of extra cloth wisping around, though the cloak effects in the future are something to look forward to. :)

Peter_Smith
19th Feb 2004, 04:36
The premise is false.:) Garrett does not wear a cloak while working.

Logically, a cat burglar would not want a cloak. It would snag on things. Is Garrett a cat burgler? Obviously yes in T3, since he has wall climbing gloves.:eek:

Even the old Garrett would probably never wear a cloak indoors because it is cumbersome. Might knock over a vase and attract guards. Have you seen him do so? I haven't. I have seen him wear a cloak only while walking with his keeper friends outdoors, on a cold night.

The final proof is in-game screen shots. Here are some pictures of Garrett from Thief 2, front and back view, taken via his artifical eye and scouting orb:
<center>
http://www.mindspring.com/~smithpd/thief/Garrett_front.jpg http://www.mindspring.com/~smithpd/thief/Garrett_back.jpg
</center>
See? No cloak. :D

Mr. Perfect
19th Feb 2004, 06:19
Arrrgh! It...burns.... Noooooo! :D

Didn't he always have a cloak while taffing about in the cut scenes though?

Squid
19th Feb 2004, 06:32
Not always. In the conversation with Constantine, for example, there's no cloak to be seen. Everyone assumes he uses a cloak because of some of the cut scenes. In particular, the opening sequence for both games, and most of the conversations he has with Keepers, show Garret wearing a cloak.

Squid

coldplay_josh_106
19th Feb 2004, 21:43
I think that Garrett just doesnt look the same without his cloak! its what makes him so cool! Its what makes him so stealthy! Its what makes him GARRETT!!! Cant iron storm make an effort for garrett to have a cloak when your in the third person view!?

Vrbas
19th Feb 2004, 22:05
But another thing is, Garret is supposed to be like a shadow right? When he moves, it is as if he is just a flat shadow on the wall. I mean, the cloak would make him look alot more like a shadow. Without it, you have all the rough edges and his figure is more defined. He is much more sinister with it too. Tell me, would you be more afraid of a person wearing most black and some grey here and there, or would you be more frightened by someone who is wearing a cloak, it makes him look bigger and more filled out. And yes, Garret does wear a cloak while he works. In the intro to Thief: Dark Project we see the face of a guard and in the background you hear some glass break. And next thing you know you see this shadow like figure (with a cloak) flow by and enter a door. If anything, they should make a cape optional. I mean in the options menu have like a "cape on" and "cape off" button or something. But like I said, Garret isn't a master thief w\out his cloak to shadow his movements.

K33p3r
20th Feb 2004, 07:07
Admittedly, garrett has never had a cloak during the missions, (especially in the first game, when our hero was a stick with a smilly face) but i agree with vibrs and all others who have said that garrett should have a cloak. so what if cat burgulars don't wear 'em, he's not a cat burgular. He's a normall (but really good) thief and he uses what he has to to get the job done (eg wall climbing gloves) but getting back to the point, garrett is a stylish thief and he has always had a cloak when going to do a job in both games (you see it in the last level of t2 when he jumps down from a rope)

thegrommit
20th Feb 2004, 12:15
Originally posted by Mr. Perfect
Arrrgh! It...burns.... Noooooo! :D

Didn't he always have a cloak while taffing about in the cut scenes though?

Yes, and he's got a cloak in the trailer that's on the DX:IW CD. So, it looks like this is a big drama over nothing.

Kerghan
24th Feb 2004, 09:22
A cloak would be nice, but flowing cloth can be hard to do realisticly in a game. It wouldn't seem right without random animations, it'd need to be affected by the wind and your movements, etc...so I can see why IS would be reluctant to put one in. Although, I'd still really like to see one.

Zante
24th Feb 2004, 12:10
You can't use "100% realism" as an argument in the case of Thief as the entire setting is make-believe.

As for the flowing cloak idea, why not?
You don't need an entirely new engine for dynamic cloth movement, just add a few animations that vary depending on the action, turning, running, climbing, jumping, blowing in a certain direction whilst the player is idle etc...

The cloak could even be wrapped around himself to reduce visibility in certain areas (or not at this stage of devleopment).

As far as dealing with the shadows, if the system is dynamic should it not compensate automatically?

The immersion factor would increase ten-fold, if in front of a flame you could see Garret's flowing shadow stabbing a guard from behind, shame nobody else would see it. So much so that it's f-ing stupid not to have multiplayer after all this time :rolleyes:

SNAKE-LORD
24th Feb 2004, 21:13
just basing this on something from a book.
namely (ROBERT JORDAN'S) "Eye of the World".
what is to say the cloak doesn't just blend in to his surroundings?
read the book i mentioned to get a better idea of this.

Optik45
25th Feb 2004, 17:58
Peter reminded me a little aspect I liked about Max Payne 2 that I hope they incorporate into Thief III. I really liked how you could knock over things, such as bottles, boxes, etc etc. I hope they add this in, It would make sneaking around a little riskier. Just my two cents.

van_HellSing PL
25th Feb 2004, 18:14
I for one hope they don't overdo the physics model like they did in DX:IW, meaning you won't accidentaly set a barrell flying through the room by just touching it :rolleyes:

Acronomic
25th Feb 2004, 18:49
So very true. I hope so too. :eek:

K33p3r
27th Feb 2004, 09:41
Originally posted by SNAKE-LORD
just basing this on something from a book.
namely (ROBERT JORDAN'S) "Eye of the World".
what is to say the cloak doesn't just blend in to his surroundings?
read the book i mentioned to get a better idea of this.

hmmm.... no.
Garrett's cloak is not a like Lan's or any other warders cloak.
As it show in the cut scenes (and the intro into the first game) it doesn't just blend in, it's is just a normal cloak, their is nothing magical about it.

Jaramide
4th Mar 2004, 03:09
People, have any of you ever tried walking around inside with a cloak? As a live player i can tell you that your very likely to make everything you pass thats placed below waist hight fall over unless you hold it. As someone said earlier, a thief would never use such a high risk item for creating unwanted sounds inside.
Besides, if they had a cloak in the game they would probably have to integrate it into the physics engine, not that it would be very difficult, but then the cloak would also interact with the objects around it, and thus making us go back to my first point :D

thegrommit
4th Mar 2004, 03:13
Originally posted by Jaramide
People, have any of you ever tried walking around inside with a cloak? As a live player i can tell you that your very likely to make everything you pass thats placed below waist hight fall over unless you hold it. As someone said earlier, a thief would never use such a high risk item for creating unwanted sounds inside.
Besides, if they had a cloak in the game they would probably have to integrate it into the physics engine, not that it would be very difficult, but then the cloak would also interact with the objects around it, and thus making us go back to my first point :D

You are too logical for this thread - BEGONE! ;)

Peter_Smith
4th Mar 2004, 05:11
No, no. Logic is the reason there is no cloak. Please stick around, Jaramide. We need you to help fight those religious fanatics, the cloakists. :)

bravus
4th Mar 2004, 05:23
Quote from Deus Ex (from memory, so be kind): "We will need to do more than scare people with our coats that make us look bigger than we really are!" (Anna Navarre) ;)

Jaramide
4th Mar 2004, 18:59
It should be "baggy coats" but otherwise your right on the money :)

Brutalis
26th Mar 2004, 20:47
Originally posted by Kerghan
A cloak would be nice, but flowing cloth can be hard to do realisticly in a game. It wouldn't seem right without random animations, it'd need to be affected by the wind and your movements, etc...so I can see why IS would be reluctant to put one in. Although, I'd still really like to see one.

In the First level of Hit man 2 there was a cloth door on the confesional and it was in creadably realistic. If they could just attach it to garrits neck it would be a very good cape.

Brutalis
26th Mar 2004, 20:52
Originally posted by SNAKE-LORD
just basing this on something from a book.
namely (ROBERT JORDAN'S) "Eye of the World".
what is to say the cloak doesn't just blend in to his surroundings?
read the book i mentioned to get a better idea of this.

The warders color shifting cloke sounded cool but i think the Halfmen's blacker than black clokes that creepily didn't move in the wind would be perfect for garrit.

Bertuccio
27th Mar 2004, 04:36
Garrett didn't have a cloak. He has a mantle type thing with a hood on it, which is still there in the cutscenes. The only time I remember seeing him clearly wearing a cloak is in the new Thief 3 trailer and maybe in the intro to Thief 1, but am not sure on that.

Jarvis
27th Mar 2004, 10:34
I do a bit of taffing around in real life. I've tried many things, including sneaking with a cloak. Here are my findings:

A cloak is great for blending in shadows *at a distance*. From far away a cloaked individual could crouch in some shadows and you'd never know he was there unless he moved. Close up however is a different story. Cloaks are often too black. under careful scrutiny they appear as a black blotch in a greyish shadow. It'll give you away everytime at close ranges. The same goes for most types of camoflauge though. As mentioned above, a cloak would snag lots of things and knock stuff over. I should know, I wear a trench coat often.

Another point I would add is they make a LOT of noise. Any clothing makes a lot of noise. Next time your house is empty at night and everything is quiet... try moving about in various kinds of clothing. They all makes lots of noise, but a flowing cloak has a ton more cloth than street clothes with which to make more noise.

I would certainly never choose a cloak to pull a job, especially some of the ones Garrett pulls. Anyone ever try running in a cloak or trench coat or something? Ever try climbing stuff? Huge pain in the ass. Sure the cloak is stylish and cool, but a master thief wouldn't want to get down and dirty in a serious job with one on. Whats the point of looking cool when your goal is not to be seen? For his own satisfaction? Come on, Garrett isn't that superficial.

van_HellSing PL
27th Mar 2004, 12:20
If not, then why does he wear those damn boots of his? ;)

AresJMD
27th Mar 2004, 22:28
I was thinking about his boots a few weeks ago and I thought of something interesting. I don't know how old you are, but remember when you were younger (maybe you never wore these) there was pajamas for youngsters and they fit like some workmans coveralls. They also had puffy little slippers attached to the pants, and you could zip the pajamas right up. ahahhaha and you couldn't hear anything while walking on tiled floors. Damn my feet would get so hot in those!!!! Anyhow, I was thinking Garret could wear some regular boots but put cushioning under his feet when walking through tiled areas.

LOL anyhow, au revoir et a bientot

John

Garon
27th Mar 2004, 23:57
Like mentioned that Garrett haven't never used his cloak in his missions. Jumping, swimming and running wouldn't be so handy while wearing a cloak. He probably just uses his cloak when he's "off duty". Avoiding identification and such. :p

Peter_Smith
28th Mar 2004, 09:42
Originally posted by AresJMD
They also had puffy little slippers attached to the pants, and you could zip the pajamas right up.
They also had a trap door in the rear so you could do certain things without taking them off.:) Those pajamas are called "Dr. Dentons."

Mr Twinkle
28th Mar 2004, 10:49
Originally posted by Brutalis
In the First level of Hit man 2 there was a cloth door on the confesional and it was in creadably realistic. If they could just attach it to garrits neck it would be a very good cape.

That's a completely different engine you're talking about, and the ragdoll physics in the Hitman series are far from perfect (though that may change with the newest installment).

From my understanding, I'm quite sure applying ragdolls (such as cloths, chains) to a character is impossible, or at least very difficult. The mod 'The Opera' (for Unreal Tournament 2003) mailed Epic asking if ragdolls on characters were possible, as they wanted coats. They got a reply from Epic saying it was impossible (or at least they didn't know how to do it, despite it being their engine).

I'm not sure if this is applicable to T3, because even though the two engines are very similar, there might be some difference or addition to make it possible (not neccessarily a constraint of the physics engine, I'm positive it's because of the Unreal/DX engine0.

Also, I think some of you are confusing 'cloaks' with 'capes'. A cape is a piece of fabric that hangs from the back, it doesn't really wrap around the front, unless your anorexic.

A cloak is a circular piece of fabric with a hole to put your head through, that features a slit in the front to allow for you to move your arms and so on.

Personally I'd like to see Garrett in a stylish Viking-style cloak, the type pinned to one shoulder (usually the right) to allow for sword and shield movement. A cloak would be nice, but I don't care either way.

Zante
28th Mar 2004, 17:03
Batman has the longest cape in history and he gets about fine. It's just a game and I can't believe you people are even trying to relate any of this to true reality. None of these arguments apply.

van_HellSing PL
28th Mar 2004, 17:53
Batman has the longest cape in history WRONG!!! Think Spawn :p

Zante
29th Mar 2004, 00:30
Yeah, but Batman's real ;p

Bertuccio
30th Mar 2004, 16:13
Originally posted by Zante
Yeah, but Batman's real ;p

I found that really funny... don't know why ;)

Bertuccio
30th Mar 2004, 16:13
repost.. stupid forum

phenopticon
3rd Jun 2004, 00:45
A real-time rendered cloak that would flow, would look very cool, and is possible with the engine, but you can't really use realism as an argument for its non-inclusion. Realistically, his pouches and weapons would jingle, and realistically his hood would impair his hearing. I don't think it was included originally (i.e. Thief 1) because of the constraints of hardware of that time, same with thief 2, but in this game, there really isn't an excuse, except for possibly worrying about framerates or how it would look in 3rd person.

It does suck though that he does have a cloak in the Thief 3 intro and most cutscenes, but not in game. It should at least be an option :(

Princess_Frosty
3rd Jun 2004, 01:16
Garrett needs his cloak it makes him feel complete, having 3rd person view in thief 3 is bad enough, the fact that he doesnt wear a cloak is even worse. It snagging on things is a stupid excuse.

The fact that he didnt wear one in the origional thief was probably because you only even saw yourself in game through the scouting orbs, anyways he looks much cooler with a cloak on, it seems like you're far more visible without a nice black cloak :)

bluestorm
3rd Jun 2004, 02:11
speaking of capes and all, i found it hard to get used to his hood draped down over the left side of the screen (well left corner) ive gotten used to now but it first bugged the heck out of me.

Darkaven
3rd Jun 2004, 02:23
You are ALL so very blind! If you were more observant, you would see that he DOES have a cape on in-game! Look undernead the back of his head, and you will see that it is only just ROLLED UP!!!

Besides, if he had unfurled, imagine the cloak wooshing around corners, and the noises it would make when thieving, eh?!

tobin
3rd Jun 2004, 13:56
I'd like to see him in some woollen gloves and a Kaftan,
it must get cold out every night.....

unnamednewbie13
3rd Jun 2004, 15:47
Garret is more of a ninja. Ninjas are cloakless.

BloodRiot
3rd Jun 2004, 16:59
OMFG!!!!1... WERZ TEH KATANA?!?!?!?!?!!1

UniTom
3rd Jun 2004, 17:14
Originally posted by unnamednewbie13
Garret is more of a ninja. Ninjas are cloakless.

Which would explain why he is no good at dealing with more than one guard? Doesn't sound much like a ninja to me :rolleyes:

I also think Garrett would not wear a cloak during a mission; it seems too unwieldy and liable to get in the way.

Those of us who played Thief 2 know he was without a cloak, when our curiosity got the better of us and we used those spyglasses to view ourselves.

Darkaven
3rd Jun 2004, 19:45
He does TOO have a cloak, its just rolled up, and you can SEE it.

Like I said, just look beneath the back of his head. It looks like a poofy, black map.

See it?

Nilt
5th Jun 2004, 22:23
You are ALL so very blind! If you were more observant, you would see that he DOES have a cape on in-game! Look undernead the back of his head, and you will see that it is only just ROLLED UP!!!

Hehe; hadn't noticed that.


OMFG!!!!1... WERZ TEH KATANA?!?!?!?!?!!1

It's rolled up, too!