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View Full Version : Can't Run Thief II in XP or ME! Please Help!



BridgeBoy
16th Feb 2004, 21:16
I am going to copy and paste my posts from Looking Glass Studios forums because I have not gotten any responses; I have been reading many threads in both this forum and other forums and still have not found a solution.

By the way....I just recently bought Thief II and it is version 1.18 straight from the CD.

Here goes:


I just bought and installed (full) Thief II on my computer. The game starts up fine and I choose "New Game." Sometimes it plays the starting "movie" and other times I've tried starting a new game and it does not play the starting movie....but that is not what concerns me. What happens to me after I start the actual game (after I review the goals for the level) I can see everything fine, I can hera sounds just fine in real time, the guy talking to me, etc. But when I try to move.....say when I move the mouse...it will turn the view normally for about one second and then freeze for about five seconds then "jump" again........moving the view....for about another second, then jump again, freeze for five seconds or so...repeat....totally unplayable. It seems it is having some sort of user input control problem.

Here are my specs:
Dell 2.4 Ghz P4
Windows XP
1-Gig PC 2100 RDRAM
Direct x 9.0b
Geforce4 4200 Ti 64MB...tried many drivers, started with 53.03...then tried some old ones in the 40's....same problem
Soundblaster Audigy 2 (latest drivers downloaded yesterday)
80-gig HD

I can't think of any other relevant computer information at the moment.

I'm at work now and plan to call tech support when they open but wanted to post this as well and see if anyone might know what is going on. I also plan to try this (when I get home) that I read in another post to see if it has anything to do with how I switched out my drivers:

"Right, here's how I got Thief Gold and Thief 2 running on my system.

1) Downloaded the 52.16 drivers.
2) Went into the Windows control panel and uninstalled anything that said Nvidia. There were two sets of drivers installed, one that I had installed myself, and one that Windows had installed during a Windows update.
3) Pulled my network connection to prevent Windows from finding it's own driver.
4) Rebooted the machine.
5) Cancelled out the automatic search for drivers when the machine came back up.
6) Installed the 52.16 drivers manually.
7) Rebooted again.
8) Started Thief Gold and/or Thief 2 (and made sure that it was only using one processor. D'oh!)
9) Enjoyed Thiefing.

Thanks to David for the initial hint about the drivers being the problem."

Other than trying that I don't know what to do.........its acting like it is fluctuating in taking input from the mouse for a second, then stopping for five seconds, then accepting input again...........very weird.

I tried all that with no success, then I did this:

Well, now I've formatted a seperate 30-Gig Hard Drive and freshly installed a copy of Windows ME, completely updated it, installed new video and sound drivers, defragged hard drive, fresh install of Thief II, AND.....SAME EXACT PROBLEM as the install on Windows XP!!!

I have a one year old Dell Dimension 8250.....has no problems with any other game. This is extremely frustrating!

What could be causing this!!!!!!

By the way, both operating systems are completely updfated using windows update. To my knowledge my 2.4 Ghz P4 does NOT have hyperthreading technology......other threads report that could be causing the problem and to turn off the dual processor by right clicking on Thief II from within Task Manager; I haven't tried that yet but I will look and see if that option is available tonight when I get home from work.

Anyone have any ideas!?!?!?!?!

Stile451
17th Feb 2004, 01:45
It's still as weird as it was over at TTLG. I've never heard of this problem and couldn't think of anything that could be causing it let alone a solution.

The only thing that I can think of is that your system may be overheating, but that's very doubtful.

You may want to try the 56.55 (http://downloads.guru3d.com/download.php?det=737) drivers(apparently unreleased by nVidia, even though they're WHQL signed).

BridgeBoy
17th Feb 2004, 13:36
Yeah, its definately not overheating. One thing though I just thought of last night: I had previously mentioned that no other games have problems on my computer.........that's not entirely true......I remember one other game that I was never able to get working about a year ago: Soldier of Fortune II. It would start playing and it would just freeze ......lock-up.... a few minutes into the game. I tried for weeks to get that game to work and finally abandoned all hope....other people had experienced the same thing and nobody (at the time) was ever able to figure out why it occurred to only a relatively small percentage of people.

Perhaps whatever it was with my system (a popular Dell Model 8250) that would not allow SoF2 to play may be related to why I can't get Thief II to play?

So today I will go and peruse the SoF2 forums that I haven't visited in over a year or so and see if any progress was made with people who were experiencing similar problems with that game..........perhaps the symptoms are linked to the same problem.............we'll see..........its obvious I'm getting desperate now........

bravus
17th Feb 2004, 15:15
G'day BridgeBoy

Have you tried playing Thief in Software video card mode? It'll probably look butt-ugly, and I'm not suggesting you play it that way all the time, but if it works smoothly in software it will probably help narrow down the problem.

Two other things:

1. It could be a sound card problem that's interfering with the video... but you said you had the latest drivers for that, and it's not an old card or on-board sound...

2. You might also try re-mapping the controls - say, put movement forward and backward on the left and right mouse buttons - just to test whether it is an input problem and that fixes it. Again, this is diagnostic, not a suggestion for a solution!

BridgeBoy
17th Feb 2004, 15:51
Thanks for the reply bravus.

Well, I'm not sure I know how to set it to play in software video card mode? I know you have a choice in options for choosing hardware acceleration for the sound, which I have chosen, but once you choose it you no longer can "unchoose" it.....it greys it out.

I can try remapping some controls, but it seems it is the mouselook that is giving it problems.........maybe I should try playing with that.....turning off mouselook.......hmmmm.

Mr. Perfect
17th Feb 2004, 17:27
have you tried finding drivers for your mouse? Some mice have special drivers, some don't. Also, have you tried using diffrent mice? Try both a USB and PS2 mouse if you can. If you're using a USB mouse, try disconnecting everyother USB device except for the mouse, sometimes USB devices don't get along with each other as well as they should.

BridgeBoy
17th Feb 2004, 18:21
Yes actually, I have tried both my Microsoft Explorer USB mouse, and the standard 3-button wheel mouse supplied with the Dell Computer (green PS2 port) (just unwrapped it for this experiment).

The Windows XP install has Intellipoint's latest drivers and the Win ME install I just used the standard native drivers that installed with the OS and/or through updates.

I actually have only tried the standard mouse with the ME installation....I doubt the USB mouse will help things......all times the same problem occured.

Thanks for the reply however.

bravus
17th Feb 2004, 21:09
I'll update you on the software video thing when I get home from the office to look at my Thiefsie machine(s).

Bravus

Peter_Smith
18th Feb 2004, 05:37
To the best of my knowledge, Thief 2 does not support software video. Only software audio.

Have you tried running 3DMark? 3DMark 2001 sometimes reveals a hardware problem.

If I were in your shoes now, I would be tempted to tweak some AGP settings in the BIOS. Write down the curent settings so you can go back to them. Try adjusting the AGP aperture upwards to 256 (or higher if it exists). Tweak any other settings you can find, one change at a time. If you are on 8x, you could try reducing it to 4x or 2x. Etc.

You could also play with memory timings, setting them to slower values.

These are just shots in the dark. I am not saying it will work, but you seem to have tried the other things I can think of.

BridgeBoy
18th Feb 2004, 16:56
Thanks for the suggestions Peter. I have not tried 3DMark, but I will give it a go and see. I will also try some of your other suggestions as well. I'll report back after I get a chance to try them..............

bravus
18th Feb 2004, 17:10
Peter Smith is, of course, correct on the software video thingy - I was thinking of Thief 1. :o

The suggestions you have are good ones. It somehow feels more like an input problem than a video problem to me, but that's just intuition!

BridgeBoy
18th Feb 2004, 17:18
I agree that it sure "acts" like an input problem.............but why does it only occur with this program? Very weird.

theBlackman
18th Feb 2004, 17:24
I may be way out in left field, but do you have an on board sound chip? If you do then KILL THE ONBOARD in BIOS.

START>RUN>DXDIAG>OK and run the full diagnostics. Double check the selected sound device and drivers in the SOUND tab.

BridgeBoy
18th Feb 2004, 17:28
I'll take a look, but to my knowledge I do not have onboard sound. The computer was delivered from Dell with a Soundblaster 5.1 Card and I replaced that with an aftermarket Audigy 2.

BridgeBoy
18th Feb 2004, 17:30
By the way, I visited the SoF2 forums, as I mentioned above that I would; and they still haven't found a solution for the hard locks people are experiencing there either............so that was no help either.

theBlackman
18th Feb 2004, 17:33
Check in DXDIAG that the system is using the Audigy drivers and not the XP win drivers. This can cause a conflict.

BridgeBoy
18th Feb 2004, 17:35
Ok, I'll look.....but it will tonight because I am at work now :)

BridgeBoy
19th Feb 2004, 14:20
Ok, I ran DXdiag and I have three sound tabs...Sound 1, Sound 2, and Sound 3. Sound 1 is my Audigy 2 and it says it is using WHQL Logo'd drivers supplied by creative. The other sound tabs are for modems and they have no drivers installed ...not sure what that is about....there is a modem card installed in the computer but nothing is connected to it ......I connect to the internet through an onboard Ethernet connection to an external DSL modem.

I guess everything is fine then with sound? Unless one of those other sound tabs are conflicting somehow?

I also went into the BIOS and changed the AGP aperture size from 64 MB to 256 MB as suggested.....made no difference. Should I not switch it back to 64 MB since my Video card does in fact have 64 MB of memory?
Also, there was no option to choose 2X, 4X, or 8X for the AGP slot like I have seen in the BIOS in older computers I have had......I guess that means it must automatically know the capabilities of my video card?

By the way, its not just the mouse input that acts erratically...it is any user input, whether from the keyboard or the mouse. If I start Thief II and just hold down a movement key......such as the "W" key for moving forward........Garrett will walk a step forward then everything will freeze....however ambient sounds continue UNinterrupted, such as birds chirping or that guy talking to me.......then after about 5 to 10 seconds of graphical freeze he will walk another step, etc.......

BridgeBoy
19th Feb 2004, 14:22
My god, I was not able to post a reply to these forums for the last twelve hours....evrytime I would try to post it would say I was not logged in....then I would log in and try agaian....repeat......crazy....it finally just went through.........sheeesh

Stile451
19th Feb 2004, 15:35
AGP Aperture Size Tweak Guide (http://www.tweak3d.net/articles/aperture-size/). This is the only thing I've ever seen regarding AGP Aperture Size.

BridgeBoy
19th Feb 2004, 16:01
Nice guide Slavage: But do you know what that means about my BIOS not having the option to choose between 2X, 4X, or 8X for the AGP slot?

bravus
19th Feb 2004, 20:09
Hey BridgeBoy, can you find out what specific motherboard you have, and post that information? That may well be very useful in figuring out what's going on...

Thanx,

Bravus

theBlackman
19th Feb 2004, 20:31
OK. Let's get to the nitty gritty. Go to www.belarc.com. DL and run the ADVISOR program.

This will detail every piece of hardware in your system (MOBO, Vcard, Sound card, BIOS etc) and every application and the OPSYS.

Then copy paste the basic info to this thread. Not the apps, but the hardware and OPSYS.

BridgeBoy
19th Feb 2004, 21:15
Ok, I will do that as soon as I get home this evening.

BridgeBoy
20th Feb 2004, 00:32
Your Privacy






Click here for Belarc's PC Management products, for large and small companies.

Operating System System Model
Windows XP Home Edition Service Pack 1 (build 2600) Dell Computer Corporation Dimension 8250
System Service Tag: 25NQ821 (support for this PC)
Chassis Serial Number: 25NQ821
Processor a Main Circuit Board b
2.40 gigahertz Intel Pentium 4
8 kilobyte primary memory cache
512 kilobyte secondary memory cache Board: Dell Computer Corp.
Bus Clock: 533 megahertz
BIOS: Dell Computer Corporation A04 01/09/2004
Drives Memory Modules c,d
110.67 Gigabytes Usable Hard Drive Capacity
64.81 Gigabytes Hard Drive Free Space

_NEC DVD+RW ND-1100A [CD-ROM drive]
3.5" format removeable media [Floppy drive]

IBM-DTLA-307030 [Hard drive] (30.74 GB) -- drive 1, s/n YK0YKT0G894, rev TX4OA50C, SMART Status: Healthy
WDC WD800BB-75CAA0 [Hard drive] (80.00 GB) -- drive 0, s/n WD-WMA8E4997005, rev 16.06V16, SMART Status: Healthy 1024 Megabytes Installed Memory



Does this help?

theBlackman
20th Feb 2004, 01:00
Originally posted by BridgeBoy
Your Privacy






Click here for Belarc's PC Management products, for large and small companies.

Operating System System Model
Windows XP Home Edition Service Pack 1 (build 2600) Dell Computer Corporation Dimension 8250
System Service Tag: 25NQ821 (support for this PC)
Chassis Serial Number: 25NQ821
Processor a Main Circuit Board b
2.40 gigahertz Intel Pentium 4
8 kilobyte primary memory cache
512 kilobyte secondary memory cache Board: Dell Computer Corp.
Bus Clock: 533 megahertz
BIOS: Dell Computer Corporation A04 01/09/2004
Drives Memory Modules c,d
110.67 Gigabytes Usable Hard Drive Capacity
64.81 Gigabytes Hard Drive Free Space

_NEC DVD+RW ND-1100A [CD-ROM drive]
3.5" format removeable media [Floppy drive]

IBM-DTLA-307030 [Hard drive] (30.74 GB) -- drive 1, s/n YK0YKT0G894, rev TX4OA50C, SMART Status: Healthy
WDC WD800BB-75CAA0 [Hard drive] (80.00 GB) -- drive 0, s/n WD-WMA8E4997005, rev 16.06V16, SMART Status: Healthy 1024 Megabytes Installed Memory
Does this help?


Yes. At least we know what is in there. The MOBO seems to be a Dell proprietory board. At the moment it looks like DELL is your best bet. Have you tried them?

I would edit your post to what you see here. The ISP and other info should not be public. :D

Disable the SMART info in your BIOS if you can. It can sometimes give you trouble. One of the pros might argue about this. If they do listen to the experts.

I'm on my way out so I'll mull this over and see if I can come up with something. The change you made to the Sound card might be it, but I'm not sure.

Did you UNINSTALL all the original SB drivers before you added the Audigy card drivers?

When was the last time you ran DFRAG?

Peter_Smith
20th Feb 2004, 06:56
theBlackman seems to be on the right trail. It looks to me like the sound theory might be correct. I think you should have only one audio device, with many different functions of course, like all sound cards have, but not 2 or 3 distinct devices. My DXDIAG reports only the the one sound card I am using, an Audigy, not previous sound cards I have owned.

I see in your configuration the following:
Unimodem Half-Duplex Audio Device

Even if that Modem / Audio device has no driver, I suggest that the device probably should be disabled in the bios so the computer does not even see it. A full fledged audio card plugged into a PCI slot does not need that device. Then, when you reboot, with luck, the computer will not see that device anymore, and you will be down to one or two.

theBlackman is right about deinstalling the drivers for the SB 5.1. See if there is anything associated with SB 5.1 in Add / Remove programs and get rid of it. Then, I suggest going into the Device Manager, accessible from My Computer, right click to find Propeties. Then find the Device Manager and look at all audio devices. See if the "SB 5.1" is there. If so, go to its properties and find the driver tab. Deinstall the drivers. Then when backing out, disable the device.

Ideally, the above should be done before installing the new sound card. It is possible that two Creative products could intertwine, making it necessary to deinstall both completely and reinstall the Audigy 2.

When you reboot, then maybe you will see only one device, the Audigy 2 and its other associated features. Hopefully it will not find another piece of hardware and ask you to install software for it. If your computer still sees the SB 5.1 after deinstalling it and rebooting, then I would ask: did you remove the SB 5.1 card from your system? ;)

I don't have any idea what that second modem audio device is. Maybe if you kill the one the second will go away. Anyway, I think you ought to be able to make it go away and get down to one sound device in DXDIAG.

While you are in Device manager, you might check other devices and see if there is anything strange like duplication.

The AGP tweaks may stil be worthwhile to check.

BridgeBoy
20th Feb 2004, 14:06
Ok, I edited my post as suggested to only what you have shown in your reply. Also, I fear this may definitely be some new hardware conflict that has jsut recently appeared somehow in my computer. I say this because I went out and bought another new game to tie me over while we tried to figure out this problem with Thief II, and I am having similar problems with the new game now as well.....not exactly the same, but very similar problem. The game is the Dungeon Siege expansion pack "Legends of Arrana" that comes bundled with the original. When it starts it plays the company logo ads just fine and then gets to teh beginning screen that says "Dungen Siege" and then freezes with the sowrd (mouse cursor) on teh screen. If I keep moving the mouse, the cursor will move a little about evry ten seconds or so.....again, acting as if it keeps processing information for a second, then locks for ten seconds or so, then processes info for another second, repeat..........arrgghhh.

I got frustrated and went to bed, but I thought I would try to play another game that was already on my computer that I know I have played with no problems before, and see if this new problems is apparent in one of those games now too.

About the 5.1 sound card, I do believe I have uninstalled the drivers for it and it is also physically removed from my system (I am answering this from work again). I'm inclined to think that this is not the problem because I have played so many games just fine with my Audigy 2 already; I've had it for at least six months, but who knows. Same thing about the AGP tweaks.......other games had run just fine in the past......but again, who knows.

I will try to identify and disable the other modem/sound devices from the BIOS. Do you think this could be some problem with IRQ assignments? Like two devices are competing for the same assignment? Also, there are a couple of USB controllers in Device Manager that have the yellow exclamation point (!) by them, and also something....PCI controller or something in "Other Devices" that has a yellow exclamation point.

Another thing I was wondering about: I have edited my last post now, but it had shown all the Microsoft Hotfixes that were installed, and three of them said "reinstall".......shopuld I do something about that? My system is completely up to date by using Windows Update.

I really appreciate all the help and suggestions you guys are giving....thanks a lot!

Stile451
20th Feb 2004, 16:24
Have you tried disabling all background programs before running the games?

DirectInput on XP can do screwy things in games when there's a background program monitoring DirectInput.

Dungeon Siege might have the option to disable DirectInput, if it does try that.

BridgeBoy
20th Feb 2004, 16:32
Yes, when I play games I go into MSCONFIG and do a selective start up by unchecking the "Load Startup Items" on the general tab. Then if I check the Task Manager the applications tab is blank, which to me tells me no other programs are running. Am I right?

Oh yeah, and Blackman asked about DEFRAG.......I defrag almost everyday with Diskeeper 7.0..........which is a superior to the defrag program that comes supplied with Windows (in case you are not familiar with it).

BridgeBoy
21st Feb 2004, 22:53
Well, just to update everyone that was nice to help, I finally got so frustrated I went out and bought an ATI RADEON 9800 PRO from Circuit City ($299) .........I figured if it fixed the problem then fine, if not, I could return it for a refund within 14-days.

I installed it and it runs Thief II just fine. Also, it turns out it wasn't just Thief II.....all my games started behaving similarly. All fixed now though! Something with the card itself must have went bad because I used many different drivers.

Thanks for all your help!!

bravus
22nd Feb 2004, 01:01
Yay, glad to hear you're finally up and running, after all that! Thanks so much for coming back and reporting the solution - lots of people don't, but if you do, it makes this community much more useful to the next person who comes along with a question! Yeah, something must have been on the way out in your old vid card. The upside, of course, is that the new card sets you up for Thief 3 as well!

Bravus