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View Full Version : No Rope Arrows... No purchase



indyjones2131
15th Feb 2004, 21:57
This was the one thing I needed to carry over from the previous games. How awesome a game experience was it when you are spootedby the guards, you run to the shadows and shoot a noisemaker to momentarily distract the oncoming group of guards then you make a run for it, they spot you and run after you. You spot a rafter high above, pull a rope arrow from you leather quiver and fire it making a perfect and lucky shot into the wood of the beam. You jump onto the rope just as a guard raises his broadsword above his head and climb up before he swings it. Then you grab you arrow, smiling, and swagger, gold in hand to safety. It remains the most exciting and memorable scenes from any game I have played and I am pi$$ed it won't be included. The gloves sound fun to, but give us he rope, please.

PS. Ya'll think someone could make a rope arrow mod?

sorgoth
15th Feb 2004, 22:25
So do we know for sure rope arrows are out? If so show me the proof.

So far I've only heard of one sorce saying rope arrows are out, and its not a very good sorce so you could be getting worked up for nothing. That is unless you know somthing I dont.

Acronomic
15th Feb 2004, 23:09
If there is only one person saying that there will not be rope arrows, then don't believe it. I mean.... they couldn't possibly have a single reason for leaving them out?

Psi Yamaneko
16th Feb 2004, 00:32
The Wall-Climbing Gloves might make the Rope Arrows obsolete.

We're all gonna feel very silly if T3 ends up better than the previous games.

indyjones2131
16th Feb 2004, 01:50
Obsolete? No, no, no. Climbing gloves are great if there is in fact a wall nearby to climb. But in situations like my previous example, you need the rope arrows. Plus they're just plain cooler.

HOC
16th Feb 2004, 02:12
unfortunately, rope arrows have been replaced. if you go back and read all the previews, and pay attention, you'll see it.

although the game has been reported to still be in the alpha stage according to the previews...if enough of a voice can be made by the community (PC users in particular), maybe they'll be kind enough to put it back in.

rope arrows were the poo though. they allowed you to plan an escape by having a contingency plan if ya so happened to make a booboo around a guard. i'll admit, i think the WCG is a cool idea...but i just see it robbing the excitement caused when retreating from the baddies.

Psi Yamaneko
16th Feb 2004, 02:54
Well I read somewhere once that Garrett has to tense himself for a jump before using the Gloves. So using them when a Guard is coming down on you with a sword is ill advised.

Black Knight6662000
16th Feb 2004, 04:03
I figured there would be rope arrows because in the trailer Garrett uses one to get into the tower/building/room/whatever.

Tin Star
16th Feb 2004, 05:10
Even if there are no rope arrows in the game I would not let that alone keep me from getting the game.
Not having a rope arrow in the game would onle make it that much more of a harder game to play your way through,which I would think most of us would want and a game where it is going to be like going for a walk in the park to play through.
Even when we had the rope arrows there were times that you couldn't get to some spots in the game.

:cool: Tin Star

KeeperJV
19th Feb 2004, 14:57
I'll try to remain neutral til I have play-tested T3, but rope arrows ARE the coolest gadget that Garrett has. There's a high probability of bogusness if rope arrows are taken away.

Imagine a room with wooden beams spaced across the top, and lava at the bottom. Shoot a rope arrow into beam 1, jump to it. Shoot a rope arrow into beam 2, jump to that, collect rope arrow 1. Repeat until you are across the room.

How in Hades you gonna do that with gloves? I'm sorry, but if I can cross a ceiling cuz I have good gloves, that's going to seem pretty lame to me, unless I am playing Spiderman.

HOC
19th Feb 2004, 15:11
Originally posted by KeeperJV
Imagine a room with wooden beams spaced across the top, and lava at the bottom. Shoot a rope arrow into beam 1, jump to it. Shoot a rope arrow into beam 2, jump to that, collect rope arrow 1. Repeat until you are across the room.


just like that one area in the lost city, thief: dark project/gold. ahhh, the memories.

Huntress
21st Feb 2004, 23:13
Sorry to say but this element along with some others that disgruntle me, are making a very close if not at that decision in this purchase either. They say that the maps are a little larger than what they did with DE:IW but they have not said about the still frequent load times and the "message signs" do you want to travel, go by secret tunnel, lockpick, etc. a bit exaggerated but still holds the basic way they did for DE:IW? Way points or something similar ILO dynamic saves, etc., Xbox can't do those types of things and they are not making seperate platforms! Go look at some other posts in different forums and you'll see I'm not just making this stuff up. You keep forgetting ppl, they did cross-platform code DE:IW and T3 at the same time. Yes they are making certain adjustments for the PC but still not independant away from the console enough to suit my gaming taste.

I think the way this gameplay is/has been/being changed is discourging me very much from wanting to buy it...at least early on. Maybe much later when it's much cheaper and ppl (IF and WHEN an SDK is released) can mod it effectively...then I'll more likely want it then, to play FM's but then only if some of the original elements of the first two Thief games can be incorporated in. If they're going to be extensions of this version...with it's limitations of weapons, non-swimable water, and other things that I feel/or see that are happening within this game...then I probably wouldn't want it then either. :(

Now some of you may poo poo me, but that's my opinion and you may chose yours and pay your money edifying that cross-platforming is fine with you! NOT ME OR EVER and I won't put my money in their pockets to show I agree with their decisions, just because it's another Thief game and the same way I dealt with DE:IW, just because it's another DE game (two of my most favorite games)! Ta and Good Hunting!

Acorn
23rd Feb 2004, 06:07
I'll check the Null posts again but I thought he said the gloves would be the MAIN vertical climbing tool.

Squid
23rd Feb 2004, 06:12
Yes, he said they were the main way. However, that does imply that there's other methods available to the player. Hopefully, we'll get a grappling hook. I want to be able to hang from the ceiling in the middle of the room.

Optik45
23rd Feb 2004, 19:37
Im wondering how they are going to limit these climbing gloves, because everyone knows it would be lame if you could just scale walls all day, err night long, everyone would forget how to walk. Do you guys think that they will only work on certain wall textures, or do you think its going to be limited by some type of "powerup" Itll be interesting.

Kayscha
1st Mar 2004, 20:12
Sorry to resurrect this topic, but I reckon it wasn't cold yet, so I went ahead anyway ;)

Anyway, being a strictly PC gamer and a Thief fan of old, I've been very concerned about this game ever since my hopes for IW turned sour. I deem the IOS' multiplatform approach a grave error and don't really expect DS to live up to it's predecessors. I will withhold any judgement until I've checked out the demo at least, though, but I'll do so warily.

Still, I'm not really so sad to see the rope arrow go. Even considering the world of Thief to be a (low) fantasy setting, I used to think of the various arrows as an oddity. While the fire, also the water and even the moss arrows can be thought of as realistically possible with some imagination, I've always had a hard time picturing a simple arrow supporting my weight in the game, let alone allow itself to be aimed precisely with a rope attached that could actually be climbed (ropes need to be rather thick to allow that).
Now, a grappling hook would have been a worthy improvement, making clever use of the game's physics system and allowing more variety than the rope arrows, too.

So if IOS came up with a convincing wall climbing simulation, I'm all for it. Imagine frantically scanning the buildings around you for escape routes while running from a well-armed guard, looking for structures with sufficient handholds. Too much loot might hinder you and intelligent enemies might try to cut off your way or even follow after you to some extent.

However, climbing gloves sound even more cheesy than anything in the original! What were they thinking of!? Scaling castle walls with suction caps? Some fancy magical design that imbues Garrett with the abilities of an insect? Why not just let him use boots of flying and maybe the One Ring, too!?

AssassinEdge187
8th Mar 2004, 17:04
I loved the rope arrows. I would only not mind if they go, if there was a replacement like a grappling hook. I would not include the climbing gloves as a replacement. As many have said, I too have fond memories of an arrow saving me in more than a few circumstances. Also, with the climbing gloves, could you jump to a different wall or only climb up one? I will hold my judgements until the demo as well, but we need a rope of some kind.

theBlackman
8th Mar 2004, 17:30
Originally posted by Kayscha

Still, I'm not really so sad to see the rope arrow go. Even considering the world of Thief to be a (low) fantasy setting, I used to think of the various arrows as an oddity.

If you aren't upset ("consider...as an oddity...") by health potions, speed potions, haunts, zombies, and woodland gods and goddesses, how can you feel at odds with magical tools?

I notice this mindset a lot. In a fantasy world, (D&D, Morrowind, Diablo, whatever) you accept the parameters of the game or story. If you want "real" then Splinter Cell, Harpoon, or Gangster should be your game(s). And even those have an element of "fantasy", especially as a VR world. :D

Kayscha
8th Mar 2004, 18:56
I thought we had this discussion in another thread already since I posted this. I simply find potions more natural since every human culture has always devised 'magic potions' with effects similar to the ones in Thief which 'worked' either by altering the imbiber's state of mind so that he thought he was stronger/faster/invulnerable or physiologically by lessening the pain ('health potion') or similar (doping anybody?). I dislike invisibility and feather fall potions in Thief, though.
The rope arrow, however, just seems so artificial. Much too complicated while not having many advantages to a much simpler alternative, the grappling hook, that actually existed in many cultures.

Oh, BTW, I profoundly dislike 'realistic' games like Splinter Cell - their many allusions to real life makes me much more aware of what is realistic and what is not in a game, and worse, of prejudice, political messages and sometimes very disturbing ideologies, dispelling my illusion of disbelief much easier.

Venefyxatu
8th Mar 2004, 19:17
I agree with Kayscha on the fact that a simple arrow supporting the weight of a grown man is weird, even in a fantasy setting.
However, if you need a rope arrow to escape, something's gone terribly wrong... in and out without being noticed is my motto :D

They did have their useful (and cool) moments, though... *dreams back to the First City Bank*

theBlackman
8th Mar 2004, 19:20
Originally posted by Kayscha
a much simpler alternative, the grappling hook, that actually existed in many cultures.


Much prefered also. But what you sees is what you gets. :D

ChowYunFat
9th Mar 2004, 03:30
I agree with Kayscha on the fact that a simple arrow supporting the weight of a grown man is weird, even in a fantasy setting.
Most of the things used in Garrett's world fall apart on any close examination. Just think of moss arrows. The idea of putting a clump of moss onto an arrowhead & using a bow to deliver it somewhere sounds plausible. You can imagine the moss softly hitting the floor & spreading out as it does in Thief. But you can also imagine the huge amount of noise a wooden arrow would make when it slams into the floor at 60 miles an hour (or however fast an arrow goes), even if it's covered with moss. THWACK!!! Garrett would be better off rolling up clumps of moss into balls & tossing them where he wants them to be. Ditto water arrows--what kind of din would be created by a water arrow whacking into a metal sconce?

So in a realistic world, Garrett would be tossing moss balls & throwing water balloons. I'd prefer the fantasy world where rope arrows exist myself!

Eridyn
9th Mar 2004, 03:50
Rope and Vine arrows were always my favorite tools, after blackjack and lockpicks of course.

I would be a bit put off by not having a rope arrow, vine arrow or grappling hook in the game. I'd still buy the game, but not when it first came out.

Now... What's this I read above about not being able to swim in the water? Utterly lame.

If features that were in the previous Thief games are not in this one, in any incarnation, I very well may not buy t3.

Secrets Of Nosgoth
9th Mar 2004, 22:49
I always liked messing around with rope arrows too. But if they are gone then I won't miss them much as long as the climbing gloves are going to work well, and I think they will.

I'm just happy we still get moss arrows, those things were fun, especially when a guard would notice them and say "EEEHHH I don't remember that being there."

simont1981
12th Mar 2004, 00:59
They can't lose the rope arrows, come on, one of the most indispensable tools Garrett had. You may as well take our lock picks too!

Reading this post made my chuckle though, it seems people analyse things too much, instead of allowing themselves to be immersed into the world of Thief.

One thing this series has, in bags, was an amazing atmosphere. Never, to my knowledge, has another game come close to drawing me into it, as Thief does. Especially TTDP - the Cathedral was one of the most disturbing moments in gaming history.

I'm not going to write this game off, yet, I would prefer to try it first, but I fear it will go down in PC flames like DX IW. I'm a PC gamer not an XBOX gamer!!!

Paajtor
12th Mar 2004, 01:05
Come on, guys...if they had introduced the gloves in ThiefI and II, and then replaced them by rope-arrows in Thief-DS, then you would be complaining the same way.

"...to know that changes aren't permanent, but change is".:D

HOC
12th Mar 2004, 01:19
Originally posted by Paajtor
Come on, guys...if they had introduced the gloves in ThiefI and II, and then replaced them by rope-arrows in Thief-DS, then you would be complaining the same way.

"...to know that changes aren't permanent, but change is".:D

well, i can't argue that. if the WCG gave us lots of fun moments in thiefs 1+2, fun moments meaning it's a tried and true item within the game that actually makes ya appreciate level design that much more for making/forcing you to be more aware of the environment, then of course we'd still wail about having to lose a great item for something that might not be all that.

so i kinda fail to see the point being made paaj, unless that was it.

simont1981
12th Mar 2004, 02:05
I guess the fans who have been with this game since day one, fear change.

Honestly, I will remain open-minded until I play it for myself, the one thing that has me worried though is:

"According to Spector, the team's mantra is to "stop making games for MIT grads" -- in other words, make sure the same is accessible to a wider audience than the current dedicated Thief fanbase."

Guess I may as well get an XBOX ready :(

Paajtor
12th Mar 2004, 17:34
Originally posted by HOC
unless that was it.
Yeah, that was it.:D

TheOriginalNobody
13th Mar 2004, 15:24
Did they ever say they were taking out vine arrows? They're basically the same thing (but vine arrows are better). Maybe the rope arrow is just being replaced by the vine arrow (which would make sense). I don't know, i'll have to check

*EDIT*
Yep, never says anything about vine arrows going. Could we have a new hope?