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rookie1O
15th Feb 2004, 16:20
I tried playing Deus Ex: Invisible war on my machine and it said that i needed a video card with "greater Pixel Shadows"? I was wondering if this is gonna be the same with Thief 3, because I really want to play it. I have a mobile ATI 64 mb graphic card IGP320, and I need to know what the requirements, any idea?:(

FrozenNorth
15th Feb 2004, 17:03
I could guess that they will be quite similar to Deus Ex2. Altough they have said that T3 should run smoother than Ex2...for the game to run smoothly with a little higher graphics I would suggest a PC like:
about 2GHz cpu
512mb or more memory
4Gb free HDD space overall
something like radeon 9500 or better....
That's a guess though...

Mr. Perfect
15th Feb 2004, 23:22
If DE:IW did not run on your machine, then you need a better graphics card. DE:IW needs pixel shaders, and so does Thief 3 to draw all the real-time shadows and things. It sounds like you've got a laptop though, so I dunno how youre going to go about getting a new video card, since most every laptop can't be upgraded.

Quillan
16th Feb 2004, 17:55
I would be willing to bet the system requirements are going to be almost exactly what they were for Deus Ex:Invisible War. Hop over to that game site and check the specs. IW required a video card that supported Pixel Shader (DirectX 8.1 or higher) 1.4, if I remember correctly. The Radeon 8500 and up supports it, so does the GeForce 3 and up. I don't know about mobile cards, though. I do know both nVidia and Ati are making mobile cards that support it, but I can't tell you if they fit your system, or even how to go about replacing it. I don't know anything about laptops.

Acorn
23rd Feb 2004, 06:33
I have directX 9 and a Geforce 4 Ti4200, so I should be safe, I hope...

thf
23rd Feb 2004, 13:16
I have a 3,2 G CPU - 1 G RAM - Geforce Fx 5200 128 RAM.

My card is not the hotest around should i worry for thief 3?

Orumph
23rd Feb 2004, 20:25
If all the indications are the same as with DX2. Yes!

DX2 does not like Nvidia cards period. Although some will claim to run flawlessly on a 1.2Ghz system with a 5200FX and 512M PC 133 ram. I think that is complete BS.

DX2 does in fact run a lot better on ATI cards.

I wouldn't worry about it right now though. You will have to update the 5200 you have anyway to play Doom3 or HL2. Those will run on that card. A heck of a lot better than T3 will i bet. But, you will still want better. I would wait till those games come out before upgrading. See what the forums are saying all around and what new next gen cards are out and go off that. It would be a waste of money to try upgrading your Vid card at this point.

Seriously, if the next gen cards are at all incredible over what is out now. It might be worth splurging the money on them for the games coming.

I did read somewhere however that either HL2 or Doom3 will actualy run better on NV's T&L technology. But ATI's should not have any problems running it. Can't remember which one or where I read it.

thf
23rd Feb 2004, 21:32
I REALY don't believe that the creators of thief will miss to make thief3 Nvidia fx comatible OR they will lose a big audience. The creators of the game are not based in what card you will upgrade but what card you could POSSIBLY have. No ofence but i think what you say is bull****.

probably the game could run with an geforce mmx as long as you have a good CPU.

exuse me for errors

Huntress
23rd Feb 2004, 22:17
Sorry thf but you are completely wrong about the game being able to run on an MX type card. It definatley won't be and hasn't been supported for one simple reason that ppl have been trying to say on this board. Both of these games are running on the same engine and REQUIRE pixel shading support! MX cards do not support this feature cause it doesn't have it...period! As far as the nVidiaFX type card (newest ones) will most likely be fixed with their drivers to run the game much better as there was an issue with their drivers and using DX9 instructions. So a little research if you really want to know about cards and their performances, etc. The logo about nVidia and the way the game should be played is just so much hype...and yes the ATI cards do work better in general again because of the drivers that were better tweaked for DX9 use. :) Ta and Good Hunting!

EDIT: Needed to make a correction MMX to MX type card..got carried away :D

FrozenNorth
23rd Feb 2004, 23:00
Originally posted by Quillan
I would be willing to bet the system requirements are going to be almost exactly what they were for Deus Ex:Invisible War. Hop over to that game site and check the specs. IW required a video card that supported Pixel Shader (DirectX 8.1 or higher) 1.4, if I remember correctly. The Radeon 8500 and up supports it, so does the GeForce 3 and up. I don't know about mobile cards, though. I do know both nVidia and Ati are making mobile cards that support it, but I can't tell you if they fit your system, or even how to go about replacing it. I don't know anything about laptops.

That Radeon8500 is a joke if you ask me. I have 1800+, 768mt DDR266 and Radeon8500. Deus Ex 2 was barely playable on 640x480 and minimum settings. New games run fine with a 1,5GHz CPU but they require a lot of graphic card power and on DX9 games Radeon8500 can't compete at all (neither can GF3 and even GF4 is slow and you have to drop all the new DX9 features) :(
I would guess that T3 is playable with a comp like this:
1,5GHz processor
512mt memory (preferably more)
4Gt HDD space
Graphic card with hardware DX9 support (preferably r9500/GF FX-series or better)

I have myself thought of upgrading that r8500 of mine but can't decide if I should buy it now or wait 'til the next generation cards...I've thought of Radeon9800pro 128mt, that should have more than enough horsepower for some time (at least for games being released this year) :D

ChowYunFat
23rd Feb 2004, 23:21
My bigger concern is what kind of sound card is required to run T3. I've had some problems with T2 because of my Turtle Beach Santa Cruz card. Is this likely to continue with T3? Should I go shopping for a new card?

FrozenNorth
23rd Feb 2004, 23:36
Originally posted by ChowYunFat
My bigger concern is what kind of sound card is required to run T3. I've had some problems with T2 because of my Turtle Beach Santa Cruz card. Is this likely to continue with T3? Should I go shopping for a new card?

I have heard of that card for only about 2times in total :D
If you really had problems already with T2 I would think that you will have serious problems with T3. I would suggest to buy Sound Blaster Live! 5.1 or better (Live! 5.1 costs under 50€...)
But If you are upgrading your hardware/motherboard you might want to buy a motherboard with a good onboard soundcard

Huntress
23rd Feb 2004, 23:44
CYF...why are you saying your having problems running T2 with a Turtle card? I have one and it plays fine with it, of course that is to say, I don't use the EAX with it but just the regular setting...but for other games that I have on that machine and using EAX...seem to work fine...i.e. Unreal II for example. However, for the newer games, more likely they'll be able to use a higher version of EAX which TB won't be able to provide...since there's no more real upgrades to be had...but for me, I don't really care that much anyway. ;) 5.1 speaker use or whatever isn't on my high list of priorities. Ta and Good Hunting!

Mr. Perfect
24th Feb 2004, 03:20
Originally posted by FrozenNorth
Live! 5.1 or better (Live! 5.1 costs under 50€...)
But If you are upgrading your hardware/motherboard you might want to buy a motherboard with a good onboard soundcard

There is no such thing. :D Well, except the Nforce 2 chipset with the SoundStorm audio. All the other ones suck down some serious CPU cycles to calculate the sound.

Quillan
24th Feb 2004, 03:22
Frozen, I never said the 8500 would perform well enough to do well at it, but it DOES support pixel shaders. You can at least try running it on 640x480 with detail settings at minimum. It'll probably look crappy, but it could be done if you have one and don't want to upgrade. If you have a Geforce 2 or a Geforce 4 MX, you won't even be able to play it.

As far as sound cards go, the Audigy 2 cards are only about 100 bucks now. Pick up one of those and something like the Logitech Z-640 speaker set (about 70 bucks), and you have a fairly cheap and nice sounding 5.1 sound system for the computer. Admittedly, it won't sound as nice as if you splurged for the THX certified Klipsch ProMedia ultra 5.1 speaker set, but you won't have spent 400-500 bucks on a computer sound system either. :)

jurgen42u
24th Feb 2004, 18:46
I ran Thief 1 and 2 on a Pentium 2 266 Mhz with 4 MB of graphic memory and it worked. Only the loading was heavy!

So I am pretty sure that my 1.2ghz, 128 mb Ram Geforce 5 FX5200 ULTRA and 768 MB Ram will do the job for Thief3.

Although I have to admit that Call of Duty didn't run or ran stuck each time I tried to play.


I think that we have to be realistic that not all graphic cards, no matter how powerful they are, will be able to play Thief 3.

ChowYunFat
25th Feb 2004, 03:07
Hi Huntress!! As you did, I had a problem with the EAX not working in T2. But I also found that many of the sounds in the game were so low as to be almost inaudible. I never had either of those problems in T1.

Thanks to the others who wrote. I will most likely change to a SoundBlaster card when I'm upgrading this computer to run T3.

FrozenNorth
25th Feb 2004, 18:22
Huntress and CYF, (and others too) correct me if I'm wrong. The reason why EAX didn't work on your Turtles might be 'cos EAX is Creative's Sound Blaster ability and trademark so EAX IS NOT available for other manufaturers' soundcards at all.

Mr. Perfect
26th Feb 2004, 00:52
EAX is Creatives, but the Turtle Beach does have EAX support. They licensed the technology from Creative.

Huntress
26th Feb 2004, 01:07
As I also said, EAX seemed to work fine on other games I have in that machine that uses it (programmed for it)...but I just use the normal audio setting in optionals and all sounds are very good otherwise. Creative was not the only producer of good sound cards...Turtle Beach was also a very renound manufacturer of very good quality sound cards...but eventually sold out a couple or so years ago. I've also owned a Soundblaster card and still do in another machine of mine (hah, a 16bit) and still works just fine for that system. :) However, I have an older speaker system now, relatively speaking, that still give me excellent performance even though it's a 2+1...the Satilites have Dolby Surround Sound built in and the Woofer has 60w of power which is plenty for me and so I'm not interested in having a fancy multispeaker sound system. Of course your choice and preferences will be different than mine...so do and/or get whatever will be pleasing to your ears! :D Ta and Good Hunting!

Quillan
26th Feb 2004, 02:54
There's 4 different versions of EAX as well. Perhaps Thief II used EAX 2.0, and your drivers didn't support it? I am not sure what came out when. I know it was at EAX 3.0 when Hitman II came out, and now it's 4.0, but not sure when the 2.0 version released.

Huntress
26th Feb 2004, 05:53
I would have to double check but as far as I can remember at the moment...TB Santa Cruz uses ver. 2.0 for EAX and although I can turn it on in T2 and get a limited performance of the effect...very faint sounds and a somewhat tinny sound so-to-speak, it just didn't work right with that game? But using in a non-hardware mode/non-EAX mode just the normal audio selection as was said, everything is heard just fine and in normal volume. I think I have it also set to use 12 channels or ? can't remember that right now either and I don't have my system in house currently for me to verify. In all other uses, I've been very pleased with the card and its various capabilities :) Ta and Good Hunting!

Peter_Smith
26th Feb 2004, 08:41
Originally posted by Huntress
But using in a non-hardware mode/non-EAX mode just the normal audio selection as was said, everything is heard just fine and in normal volume. Hmmm. I had a TB Santa Cruz, and when I had the same symptoms as CYF I shipped it back. It never occurred to me to try software sound rendering. That might be the only way it could work with T2. But software rendering steals CPU cycles and is basically bypassing the card and using it only as an amplifier. That kind of sticks in my craw. In defense of TB, they reportedly have better sound for music production, all games other than T2 seem to run fine on it, and I think their software is better than Creative's. It is entirely possible that the TB will work fine for T3. If I still had one I would keep it and try it out before upgrading.

What I would really like to do is to continue using my Aureal Vortex 2, but that is another long and painful story.:(

Does anyone know of a non-Creative card that is competitive with Audigy 2?

As far as other hardware goes, in my mind, from what I have read, the minimum for "decent" performance is

Athon XP 1800+ or equivalent $49.00
Radeon 9600 Pro 128MB $139.00
512 MB memory

I intend to upgrade to an Athon 64 3200 and Radeon 9800 Pro just as T3 is released. I believe that is the hot rig, and it should be lower in price by then.

FrozenNorth
26th Feb 2004, 10:31
Originally posted by Peter Smith
As far as other hardware goes, in my mind, from what I have read, the minimum for "decent" performance is

Athon XP 1800+ or equivalent $49.00
Radeon 9600 Pro 128MB $139.00
512 MB memory

I intend to upgrade to an Athon 64 3200 and Radeon 9800 Pro just as T3 is released. I believe that is the hot rig, and it should be lower in price by then.

Haa! I have 1800+ so maybe I don't have to upgrade that, and 768mt memory so that is enough also :D
All I need to do is upgrade my Radeon 8500le, I've thought of Sapphire 9800pro 128mt or if the prices come down enough maybe I'll buy a 256mt version. New motherboard, memory and processor might be a difficult decision if the prices do come down. We just have to wait and see

Mr. Perfect
26th Feb 2004, 10:41
Unless you use a lot of AA and AF in combination with screen resolutions at or above 1200x1600(and I doubt anyone could with these new games), the 256MB cards would simply be a waste of money. Games just don't seem to eat up 128MB of texture memory otherwise.

FrozenNorth
26th Feb 2004, 10:54
Originally posted by Mr. Perfect
Unless you use a lot of AA and AF in combination with screen resolutions at or above 1200x1600(and I doubt anyone could with these new games), the 256MB cards would simply be a waste of money. Games just don't seem to eat up 128MB of texture memory otherwise.

Well I don't use that high resolutions, not atleast with my current card, but that memory can come in handy with Half Life 2 and Doom III for example. But on the other hand it might be that when Doom III is released you will already need a more powerful card...if the prices do come down tge 256mb might be tempting. We just have to wait and see :D

Peter_Smith
26th Feb 2004, 14:51
Originally posted by FrozenNorth
Haa! I have 1800+ so maybe I don't have to upgrade that...
Please don't understand me. I am not sugesting that below 1800+ you need to upgrade or above it everything will be fine. I have no real data. This is just my intuition from what I have read. If I had a marginal computer, and I do (Athlon 1200 MHz Geforce 4 Ti 4200), I would be tempted to try it first. And I will.

FrozenNorth
26th Feb 2004, 15:41
Originally posted by Peter Smith
Please don't understand me. I am not sugesting that below 1800+ you need to upgrade or above it everything will be fine. I have no real data. This is just my intuition from what I have read. If I had a marginal computer, and I do (Athlon 1200 MHz Geforce 4 Ti 4200), I would be tempted to try it first. And I will.

I understood what you meant....and with luck you may be able to play T3 with that 1200MHz if you have a good enough graphics card. Check out this link for little benchmarks:
http://www20.tomshardware.com/cpu/20030217/index.html

As those tests show, there really isn't that much difference between 1,5GHz and 3,0GHz (sure, there is, but not as much as you could think there would be). More important seems to be your FSB and motherboard&memory speeds along with the speed of your GPU...

Quillan
26th Feb 2004, 18:00
That varies considerably from program to program. If you check some older benchmarks, they show that Quake III, for instance, was more limited by CPU than video card. The more modern, graphically intensive games use a lot more video card features, making them more important to performance. Thief III, since it's using Pixel Shaders, will be more limited by video card than anything else.

Peter_Smith
27th Feb 2004, 20:55
Originally posted by Peter Smith
Does anyone know of a non-Creative card that is competitive with Audigy 2?
I have been looking around, and I think I have answered my own question. This card may be a Creative Killer: the M-Audio Revolution 7.1 (http://www.techspot.com/reviews/hardware/revolution71/index.shtml). Check it out. Does anyone know about this card?

EDIT: Note that this card does not include Creative's latest EAX. I personally would rather forego EAX than buy Creative. The main reason I want something like this is performance wiith music. I need superior audio for recording LP's onto CD's. Creative Audigy 2 advertizes 96 MHz 24 bit but does not deliver it. It has bad artifacts in its re-sampling. I would want to make sure that any card I buy works with Thief 2 owing to previous disappointment with the Santa Cruz.

Sorry to be OT. I think I will post this in the Technical area later. :)

thegrommit
28th Feb 2004, 03:13
Originally posted by Peter Smith
Hmmm. I had a TB Santa Cruz, and when I had the same symptoms as CYF I shipped it back. It never occurred to me to try software sound rendering. That might be the only way it could work with T2. But software rendering steals CPU cycles and is basically bypassing the card and using it only as an amplifier.

IIRC, EAX in Thief2 would not work properly under Windows 2000 regardless of the sound card. I know it didn't under my SB Live!. However, it ran perfectly under Win98SE.

CYF - The current TBSC drivers support EAX 2.0, as do most other non-Creative soundcards. As T3 is based off a completely new game engine, I'd hold off on a new soundcard until you know that the TBSC won't work.

Those concerned about T3's performance who have Deus Ex:Invisible War should try the 1.2 patch. The performance improvement is quite significant - it would be reasonable to assume those improvements also made it to T3.

John D.
28th Feb 2004, 03:59
I have an e-machine with a 2200+ AMD Atalon with 512 Megs of DDR Ram. I also have a Radeon 9600 with 256megs of DDR. Soundwise all I have is what came with the computer, but It seems to work great with all the games I have (Including Unreal Tournament 2003 and Postal 2). So I think my machine will at least be able to meet the middle of the road requirements for T3.:)