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View Full Version : garret is not a pacifist



scud
13th Feb 2004, 21:36
okay, whats with all these people saying that garret isn't about killing, and that the point of the game is to get through without killing anyone or anything? come on! i mean sure, it is challenging to play through without killing anyone, but its not the only way you're meant to play the game. i mean, you get given broadhead arrows at the beginning of every mission, and they're not for anything other than sniping people. garret is not exactly pure of heart and filled with noble intentions. the only reason he only steals from the rich and corrupt is because they're the only ones with anything worth stealing. and thats why i love him! sure theres some good intentions and honour, and all the rest buried in there somewhere, but the whole appeal of garret is that he's not some kind of brave, selfless, superman. he is, at best, a very reluctant hero.

neeways, enough *****ing from me, bring on the arguments if you will. :D

Huntress
13th Feb 2004, 21:54
OK Scud...I'll take that one up a bit although it's a very old discussion. Garrett certainly did turn into one who looks out for himself and the reluctant hero later in the earlier games...however, he is not a murderer by nature/trade :) Yea he's given broadarrows to use if necessary and the sword the same thing...that's why he takes so much damage if caught in a sword fight. Don't forget, spiders, zombies, undead for major uses of those weapons ;) His stock and trade is to be sneaky...so the fewer confrontations the better for him...so avoid or BJ is his best method for getting around. No this is not and you should know by now that killing everything in sight is not what these games are about. So for the majority of us do play the game as it was designed to play...sneaky with as little or no killing as possible :) Ta and Good Hunting!

scud
13th Feb 2004, 22:09
fair enough, but what better way to dispose of a threat, and thereby ensure your success at the task at hand, than by eliminating all said threats from miles away before its even possible for them to see you. seems pretty damn sneaky to me. and logical too. i like the challenge of either knocking out or killing nearly every guard in a mansion without anyone detecting you in the process.

Huntress
13th Feb 2004, 23:02
Sorry but your rational has a hole in it...the less comotion/dying characters who could possibly alarm anyone else around is not the way to be sneaky :D The idea of stealth is to go as un-noticed as possible and BJ'g is the better method, since it is the "silent" put out...right? If you really wanted to go extra stealthy...then you could do the ultimate method of what some gamers have developed as the "Ghost" mode. It's pretty much like "Expert" but even more so! I'm not that good or patient enough for that but I do mostly BJ'g my way about :) However, it's your choice but there's more challenge the other way and you have to take a little more time to plan your moves, etc. but again, that's the Thiefy way of playing this Thief game! :) Ta and Good Hunting!

SNAKE-LORD
13th Feb 2004, 23:30
Pacifist vs Pschotic Killer!
I have a theory on this.
I think most people have overlooked the obvious.
Garret is neither.
He is a thief pure and simple.
All he wants is the loot.
Check out the first mission video in Thief 2:The Metal Age.
Also note what he says in the video for Cragscleft.
He isn't rescuing either cutty or basso cause he likes them.
He is however resuing them because basso sister might pay him and cutty owes him money.
He has to save them to get loot.
I honestly don't see where people think he is in any way a nice person or even a decent person.
He is first and foremost a thief.
Everything he does says this loud and clearly.
Actions speak louder than words.
Just my opinion.

Huntress
14th Feb 2004, 00:27
S_L...nobody said he was nice or decent :D Where'd you get that idea? As far as the first mission in T2...he was doing his friend a favor...not for money...but as long as he was there he might as well serve himself as well :) However, as repeatedly said, he was a "reluctant hero" by the end of T2...no money or reward was available...just destroy the menace that had become the form of Karros and his desire to kill humanity and have absolute power! Remember? :) Ta and Good Hunting!

HOC
14th Feb 2004, 03:59
eh, he's both. that's one of the things i liked most about thief. the difficulty settings were so varied.

seriously, it broke the trend in difficulty settings. the majority of games out there both past and present did what with the higher difficulties? less ammo? lesser damage to npc's? more damage to you? whoopdiedoo.

thief comes along and allows ya to be an assassin at first, learning from your mistakes, till ya get enough patience to up the difficulty and play as the stealthiest mofo that'd whoop snake pliskin and sam fisher with ease.

so why bother debating this? it really is up to the gamer.

Fafnir13
14th Feb 2004, 20:20
It is up to the gamer, but it becomes waaaaaaaaaay too easy when you're allowed to kill, to the point where the game isn't any fun at all. That's why I hated Deus Ex. You have all these wonderufl stealthy things you can do, but it all comes down to a bloody massacre.
Meh, that's a diferent game. Anyways, broad head arrows have no purpose other then shooting people? Are you nuts? They're cheap noismaker arrows. I've been able to sneak into Bafford's front door just by using a few of them. Your sword is another useful tool, as it's a lockpick for wooden doors, and a better noisemaker then the black jack.
Garret is a thief, not a murderer. This probably stems more from the fact that people will hunt down murderers more avidly, but he also has a professional pride.
Go ahead, play the game like its Quake 3. The game let's you.

Mr. Perfect
14th Feb 2004, 22:44
I always take down the hostiles. Not because I'm blood thirsty, but becasue I don't want to trip around the same gaurd 3-4 times. In most levels I always had some reason or other to run through most areas more then once, so I either killed or blackjacked anyone in them so I could move around at will.

Antoher reason of mine is because if you're spotted by one guard, he calls for all the others. I prefer having one gaurd hollering for help then half a dozen of them in the same room looking for me.

As long as you hide the bodies in a closset or dark corner somewhere, knocking people out or killing them has no effect on the other people in the level.

Huntress
15th Feb 2004, 00:14
Fafnir13...Hi :) I don't understand your comment re: Deus Ex and becomming a bloody massacre? I have the game and I didn't find that to be so. ILO of a BJ for silent no kill actions, you had a Prod, Tranqs, Nightstick (whaever) gas granades (enough of or high enough skill points) and many secret ways to go about in many levels...where you could avoid at times if you wanted and/or had enough patience to do it (or your cloak up enough to let you pass if no alternative passage). You had to kill at certain times in Thief/Thief2 as well but I grant you, you needed to do it more so in DE just because of the nature of the game...but certainly not a bloodbath either...and at times you could also use the A.I. to help eliminate enemies or turn turrets to your advantage, etc. :D Anyway, I think I've made my point and I think you exaggerated a bit about the play of DE :) Ta and Good Hunting!

Wynne
15th Feb 2004, 00:48
I'm a thief, not an assassin. If everyone's dead, they won't work, and won't make money for me to steal. Plus, killers are hunted WAY harder than assassins. So from a logical immersion perspective, no killing.

From a game perspective, no killing either, because Expert disallows the murder of humans. And Garrett is a Master thief, not a normal thief.

Garrett is not a pacifist... but he's not a killer. Killing is made an option for those who can't get through without it. And that's fine with me.

Zaccheus
15th Feb 2004, 01:16
This is it.

If you are a sherif, and in one night there's a break-in where everyone's been killed, and a break-in where everyone's knocked-out, which of the two cases will you put the most resources into?
Let the sherrif go after the killer-burgler, and keep up your low profile by avoiding unnecessary attention.

Mr. Perfect
15th Feb 2004, 06:20
We took care of the sherif in T2. :D