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View Full Version : Give Us Multiplayer!!!



KeeperJV
13th Feb 2004, 21:34
I'm 40ish, and have been gaming since I was a tyke. In all of that time, Thief (1 & 2) are some of my favorite all-time games. The reason is that they think outside of the usual boxes, especially the boxes that computer game designers are stuck in.

Give me a game like DOOM or any of those other "shoot everything that moves, and try to get better guns" type game, and I will be bored in 10 minutes. I never get bored of Thief.

But, this game SCREAMS for multiplayer action. Imagine 2 or 3 thieves working as a team, breaking into a manor home or guard house! If you think getting your timing down is tough for one player, imagine synchronizing between several players! Do that right and you have the best computer game of ALL TIME on your hands!

What say, Eidos? When can we have it?

Take you one step further: allow a point-based system for designing your thieves, so some may be better at hiding, others at sneaking quietly, still others at aiming their bow, etc. Now you can build a team whose expertise varies. What a game!

P.S. Monsters are boring, mechanized or otherwise. It's much more fun to break into homes, business, guard houses, and other human-populated areas. Give us more interesting humans to rob!!!

scud
13th Feb 2004, 21:44
i gotta admit, co-op mutiplayer would be awesome! and the introduction of rpg character-building elements would be cool. nothing gets me hooked like customising my character. i also have to agree that its a hell of a lot more fun when your victims are human. replaying the other games i generally skip through the levels with the monsters and mechanical guys. it just gives me a better thrill outwitting humans than just getting past a simple-minded beast, or a programmed piece of machinery. bring on the lovebly stupid aristocracy! its so satisfying outsmarting them.:D

Huntress
13th Feb 2004, 22:01
Oh my word...where've you two been? Ever heard of "Thievery"? A team put together several maps that have very well made maps/characters and you can play co-op/head to head (meaning all Thieves for themselfs) and just Guards against Thieves. Other than that, no I wouldn't want to see multiplayer put into a Thief game as an added element to the overall game programming. Lets just get a well done single player game for ultimate enjoyment please :) Ta and Good Hunting!

Aquateddy
13th Feb 2004, 22:01
Infact, such a game exists!
A while ago, thief addicts on the net made your exact point and a group of people got together and made a mod for the first Unreal Tournament game. It is called "Thievery", and is pretty much a multiplayer version of thief. You can play as a thief of a gaurd one of many specialy designed maps, and it has all the features of the origional game. I dont think it is fully finished yet, or rather, they are still working on it- But it is well playable and enjoyable too- I assure you! I would strongly recommend it. I got it on a DVD with a magazine, but Im sure you should be able to download it on one of those U.T mod sites.(Sorry, I dont know any off hand)

Aquateddy
13th Feb 2004, 22:03
Sorry, we must have posted at the same time.

scud
13th Feb 2004, 22:14
damn! the lights so bright when you crawl out from under this rock!

willow_ufgood
15th Feb 2004, 13:22
http://www.thieveryut.com/

Black Knight6662000
16th Feb 2004, 01:07
Im now re-installing UT and downloading Thievery 1.4. That looks so sweet. Now, I think after the SP of Thief DS is done, or even after it is released, that a co-op would be a nice addition. Nothing fancy, a co-op like Halo on the Xbox would be fine. On Halo, co-op was no different than SP except that there was an extra main character. So adding co-op the same way would result in a very small need of coding. They could make it a bit harder, how I don't know. But I would have to rule out any non-co-op ideas. With brightness and gamma, multiplayer stealth is no good.

KeeperJV
16th Feb 2004, 15:14
Originally posted by Black Knight6662000
[BNothing fancy, a co-op like Halo on the Xbox would be fine. On Halo, co-op was no different than SP except that there was an extra main character. So adding co-op the same way would result in a very small need of coding. They could make it a bit harder, how I don't know. [/B]

The key to great multiplayer isn't in the coding. The key is in the scenario design! For example, there could be places where two or three thieves would need to simultaneously blackjack several guards at once. If any of them were off-timing, one of the guards would manage to hit an alarm. Forcing the players to learn teamwork is the key. This is the key to the success of games like Everquest as well. The reason you get hooked is that you have to learn to play cooperatively with more and more people.

In the case of Thief, I can't envision more than 4 at once being fun. Much more than that and it would become goofy.

KeeperJV
16th Feb 2004, 15:19
Originally posted by Huntress
you can play co-op/head to head <snip> and just Guards against Thieves. Other than that, no I wouldn't want to see multiplayer put into a Thief game as an added element to the overall game programming. Lets just get a well done single player game for ultimate enjoyment please :)

Well, thanks for the tip, I will try out Thievery, BUT I still think it belongs in the core game, not tacked on by some third party hackers. Design is everything.

And by the way, I'm glad you enjoy single-player games, but if you check into it, multiplayer is what sells. Take a look at how much money Sony is raking in on Everquest. People want to play together. Computers isolate us enough already as it is.

Black Knight6662000
16th Feb 2004, 16:56
What I had meant by coding is that just by adding the ability to have another person and nothing else would require little change, no change to map or anything; lots of people complain if that they add multiplayer because it could take away some of the time that SP could be worked on, like trade-offs, which could make SP worse than it could be, thats what I meant. The team work thing would be cool but then a much larger amount of changes need to be done (map design, bots, bot routes, etc) which could take too much time from SP. But if both could be polished that would be great.

BrokenArts
17th Feb 2004, 03:04
Thief won't have multi-player, that has been discussed on more than one occasion.

Thievery, I have been playing Thievery since 2002. Playing against real people and sneaking in the shadows as a Thief, or pounding a thief senseless, when you play a guard, nothing else like it. It can be quite challenging, after some games, my hands shake so bad, the adrenaline rush is like no other.

Very challenging game, outwitting your opponent, learning the game takes time, and patience, don't expect to jump right in, and kick butt. First learn the maps, learn loot placement. The game is timed, you get used to it, no big deal. Hopefully in the not too distant near future, another patch will be out.

There are so many things I like about this game, too many to name. Check it out.

If your interested, check out the forum too, you'll get more information, there.
http://www.thieveryut.com/bb/index.php

KeeperJV
17th Feb 2004, 14:38
Originally posted by BrokenArts
Thief won't have multi-player, that has been discussed on more than one occasion.

You said that pretty authoritatively. You an Eidos employee?

Regardless, if they never put MP into this game, Eidos has missed a major opportunity.

BrokenArts
17th Feb 2004, 16:06
I have read that on sooo many boards, and somewhere along the way, it has been confirmed, (I would have to dig for it) that there would be no multi-player.

Eidos employee? No....Eidos groupie of the gang here? Yes

Huntress
18th Feb 2004, 00:30
Regardless, if they never put MP into this game, Eidos has missed a major opportunity. UNQUOTE

I'm afraid you missed the point here. Thief is not and was not meant to be a multiplayer game! There are many of those out there and for the most part, become spoiled with too many players that cheat/PK'rs or otherwise spoil it and that's a fact. Yes some moderators try and control it but it's pretty hard to be consistent with the offenders.

There are a few exceptions but the only one I know of is the Thievery game. Just because of the type of play it is, there isn't any reason or way to cheat, etc. and most of the ppl know one another (through the forums mainly) that make it more of the fun it is. Plus one Taffer made his server private to mainly players from the Eidos board...so that we did know who was playing and would not spoil the game in any way for the rest of the ppl. :)

Now when you can limit the play to ppl whom you can trust, etc. and just want to have fun and not someones blood...multiplayer can be good fun but I'm afraid when it goes beyond that element, for me, I wouldn't touch them with a ten foot pole!

Since Thief is the type of game it is, it was meant to be a single player game and I for one, am very glad it has been and will continue to be the main concept :) Ta and Good Hunting!

Squid
18th Feb 2004, 05:40
Huntress, just wanted to point out something... ANY multiplayer game is better with people you know. All multiplayer games are ruined when people cheat, lie, etc. Also, there are ways to cheat in Thievery, unfortunately. Fortunately the community is small and the players generally know each other.

Squid

theBlackman
18th Feb 2004, 16:55
Originally posted by KeeperJV
...but if you check into it, multiplayer is what sells. Take a look at how much money Sony is raking in on Everquest...

Frankly, except for designing a game, "what sells" is the least of my interest.

I, for one, have no use for MP games. Interaction on a board game, or a card table, I enjoy. As far as MP games, there are many on the market, and unless I could kill all MP options and still have the full game, I would hate THIEF to fall into that trap.

I do play Thievery, on ocassion. It is fun to mill around with friends (on either of the Thief, or Guard groups). I find no problem with the mods for this, any more than I do for the FM's that have been following, and promoting THIEF.

Many of the Mod mappers, are as skilled as any of the so-called professional game designers, and incognito, may in fact be such. So that arguement against "home brewed" maps/missions is specious in itself.

KeeperJV
19th Feb 2004, 14:32
from theBlackman
Frankly, except for designing a game, "what sells" is the least of my interest.

It's not mine, either, but it should be EIDOS's.


from theBlackman
I, for one, have no use for MP games. Interaction on a board game, or a card table, I enjoy. As far as MP games, there are many on the market, and unless I could kill all MP options and still have the full game, I would hate THIEF to fall into that trap.

I do play Thievery, on ocassion. It is fun to mill around with friends (on either of the Thief, or Guard groups).

You seem to contradict yourself? On the one hand you have no use for MP games, and on the other you like Thievery? You don't have to "kill MP options". Just don't play with others if you prefer to solo. Most MP games do not prevent you from playing solo, folks. The problem is the other way around.

And for the record, MP with friends was all I was talking about in the first place (reread my first post). I didn't ever suggest Thief should become a MMORPG. I'm thinking more along the lines of Diablo where you can have up to (perhaps) 4 people in the game, either on a LAN or on a server similar to battle net.

So, for those of you who don't want multi-player, JUST DON'T PLAY IT THAT WAY! Sheesh. Let the rest of us enjoy what WE enjoy. Don't impose your restrictions on us.

KeeperJV
19th Feb 2004, 14:39
Originally posted by Black Knight6662000
I would have to rule out any non-co-op ideas. With brightness and gamma, multiplayer stealth is no good.

For the record, I'm only interested in co-op play, also. But, if they want to come up with a way to play head-to-head, that's fine with me, whatever. I just won't play it that way.

coldplay_josh_106
20th Feb 2004, 00:02
You know what would be really cool for a MP mode, Assassin. One random player is the thief and its his task to sneak in and assassinate some posh rich fella.

The rest of the players are guards, and its their job to protect the target from any danger. Should one of the guards find the thief and kill them, that player would respawn into the thief.

You could snipe your target though the window from outside, or you could sneak in a slit your targets throat!

cool idea eh?

KeeperJV
20th Feb 2004, 14:38
posted by coldplay_josh_106
You know what would be really cool for a MP mode, Assassin.

Sounds kind of cool, but might be difficult to make it work. Thief works because the AI of guards doesn't notice certain things. How many times have you put out a torch and guards patrolling there paid it little or no attention? Or, opened a door that made a loud clanking noise, yet guards march right on by. For that matter, when you accidentally alert a guard he patrols carefully around the area where he heard or glimpsed something, and you can hang right there in the shadows most of the time and wait him out.

Human players aren't going to make those mistakes. They will notice most everything. Plus, once they get familiar with the layout of a scenario, they will know all the best ways in. Perhaps it could work if there were 10 ways in and only 5 human guards. If I were guarding the target, though, I'd surround him with my players so you couldn't get close without one of us noticing.

I dunno, maybe it could be made to work, but it would take some serious design and planning.

theBlackman
20th Feb 2004, 17:22
Originally posted by KeeperJV
It's not mine, either, but it should be EIDOS's.



You seem to contradict yourself? On the one hand you have no use for MP games, and on the other you like Thievery?

I sometimes play Thievery with a few well known friends. I have no objections to anyone playing any game, including THIEF in any manner they choose.

But I do not like MP COMPUTER games. Thievery is an exception in this. MP board games I do enjoy. The difference to me is the character of the personalities of the participants.

If an MP of THIEF was exactly the same for both MP and SP, I would have no comments. If, however, there are differences that substantially reduce game play in the SP mode, I surely would have.

Meantime, MP or SP play anything you want. But don't preach to me about MP or SP is better, and that I should "face facts" about the commercial aspect of anything in this regard. :D

Huntress
21st Feb 2004, 01:13
Originally posted by Squid
Huntress, just wanted to point out something... ANY multiplayer game is better with people you know. All multiplayer games are ruined when people cheat, lie, etc. Also, there are ways to cheat in Thievery, unfortunately. Fortunately the community is small and the players generally know each other.
Squid

Well Squid, I guess that was my main point...most MP games end up with those type of things occuring...unless it is a LAN game or on the NET with a private server to limit who you play with (friends and/or ppl that you are somewhat acquainted with (via our board members that we've come to know what their personalities are like)) etc., and now you've gone and spoiled that aspect of Thievery for me :( I didn't know you could cheat in it and wasn't done in any game I participated in. However, I haven't played for quite awhile but thought I might get back into it a bit when I get my other computer back and have the added enhancement of DSL. But still, in the main, I don't care for MP games myself and did appreciate the aspect of Thief (in particular) of being a very good SP game that I enjoyed.

However, in most cases, where devs would try and put both styles in the same game, one or the other suffered from it. It was either not a well done SP or not a well done MP...so keep them seperate. Make a MP game for those that like that type of diversion and make a SP player game for those that prefer that type. We do not have to HAVE every game made that contains both aspects every time!!!

Also, while I'm at it...I do not care for third person view either. No you don't have to use it and the only/main reason it has been included is for the console ppl. This is a fact...it has been stated, that first person view will be the default with the PC use and third person will be defaulted for the console users. However, I do not agree about it's so called "steathy" use for third person in any sense of it's use. First person is first person not third person views and therefore I do not consider seeing everything around you from above/behind as being "steathy"...Splinter Cell or no Splinter Cell. The idea of playing Thief in FP was the fact you couldn't see everything and the element of surprise was always a threat to your gameplay. It is not Diablo and it's type of view...this is sneak around, being aware of your surroundings by sound and the limitations set before you including darkness! No I'm afraid some of you and your ideas of steathyness is not the way many others of us think about it. But then that's the differences amoung us as gamers, however, the vast majority of us would prefer not to have this or MP included in this particular game. Ta and Good Hunting!

Thiefinthenight
23rd Feb 2004, 02:26
They were talking multiplayer early on. I dont recall why it got scraped. We may still see a muliplayer add on for this game if it sells well.

tealsmith
23rd Feb 2004, 03:53
I don't have Unreal Tounament so I can't play the Thievery mod. As such, multiplayer in T3 would have been really nice.

Squid
23rd Feb 2004, 05:54
The stated reason why multiplayer was dropped early on is that they felt that spending time on a multiplayer mod would detract from the time they could spend on the single player game, which is, after all, the focus of the game. As an example, they cited the multiplayer mod for the first DX. Lots of people screamed for it, they made it, and then it was barely played by anyone. Effectively, they wasted a lot of time, money, and effort on a mod that no one used but people were very vocal about it.

tealsmith, if you can find UT:GOTY, buy it and download Thievery. We really need more players in the community, especially if you're serious about wanting a multiplayer mod for T3. Thievery is a great game.

Squid

damacles
31st May 2004, 13:05
Well if they release the SDK I am pretty sure that we may see a MP mod. I mean there are some pretty smart people on these boards with some pretty cool ideas, so it seems to me to be only a matter of time once/if the SDK is released.

Will it be easy to make, prolly not but it should quite cool.

ringo380
31st May 2004, 13:11
Honestly, every player-made MP port for a game that originally didn't support it that I've seen has been quite simply a failure. Some manage to pull off functionality, but anything beyond that is pure luck. I'd love to see it done, but unless they release the entire source code, I don't see it happening.

Innocent Blood
31st May 2004, 13:25
I've been thinking of somethig like that. When guards score, it would have a sound rip from the guard.

"Guard 1, Shadow lovin' Thieves 0"

jaywalker2309
31st May 2004, 16:13
Originally posted by BrokenArts
I have read that on sooo many boards, and somewhere along the way, it has been confirmed, (I would have to dig for it) that there would be no multi-player.

Eidos employee? No....Eidos groupie of the gang here? Yes

Oh dear, an eidos groupie? hehe should i be worried? :))

BrokenArts
31st May 2004, 16:34
Originally posted by jaycw2309
Oh dear, an eidos groupie? hehe should i be worried? :))

Ha ha, no I don't think so. More of a forum groupie would be the term. If you look at my registration date, I have hung around the forum for a long time now. The hard core group, some of which I consider them to be very good friends, and I have known them since the beginning. Some of those taffers I have met.
Good friends, and good times.

TheOriginalNobody
31st May 2004, 16:45
Multiplayer would be cool, but they'd have to work very hard to implement it. If the slightest thing went wrong... ah well. SC2 has grea stealth multiplayer.

Please let them re-release thievery for UT2004, i can't be bothered to buy the original

BrokenArts
31st May 2004, 16:55
Thievery you do not have to BUY it, it is free to DL. And it has already been said, Thievery will not be ported over to UT2004.

You can play Thievery using the original UT, and GOTY edition.

ringo380
31st May 2004, 16:59
He means to buy the original UT, and I'm in the same boat. I actually have the original UT cd's lying around somewhere, but generally it became obsolete after 2 newer versions of the exact same game have already come out, and I've bought them both.

Isn't it easy as **** to port UT mods to newer UT versions? What's the deal with them refusing? :P

phenopticon
2nd Jun 2004, 06:24
Something like this could work very well. Anyone who has played Splinter Cell: Pandora Tomorrow can vouch that if enough work is put into a multiplayer version of thief, it can be done and it can be excellent.

Edit: The Thievery team hasn't refused outright that it won't make it to new engines, they've merely said they'd consider it at a later time.

styphon
2nd Jun 2004, 06:32
For a high-tech version of thief multiplayer, pick up Splinter Cell pandora tomorrow.

Spies breaking in and trying to disable chemical weapons the mercenaries are guarding... It's thief with guns and night vision goggles. ;)

Neutrino64
2nd Jun 2004, 06:49
If anyone wants to make a MP thief mod I would seriously suggest you use the Doom 3 engine. I'm building my own mod on that engine and I've thus done quite a bit of research into it. It would be almost ideal, and it would support much better graphics than the current thief engine.

BrokenArts
2nd Jun 2004, 13:48
Originally posted by ringo380


Isn't it easy as **** to port UT mods to newer UT versions? What's the deal with them refusing? :P

If it was so easy to port over, don't you think they would of done it by now? Ask them. They said no. There are other projects in the works, like Alien Swarm and Night Blade.

Vjornaxx
2nd Jun 2004, 14:38
A few people in here mentioned Splinter Cell: Pandora Tomorrow. I will vouch for this game's multiplayer aspect. Its ridiculously good. I'm biased because I'm addicted to it, but I'm addicted to it because its very well made.

I bought Thief for its single player aspect. I appreciate the developer's skill at storytelling. I like the pace and style of single player. IMHO, a coop multiplayer version of the story would be interesting... but I kind of like being Garrett THE Master Thief. And given his history, it would seem out of place for Garrett to have a partner. I like the idea, but I like the stories of the Thief series better. In my opinion, adding multiplayer draws from the significance of Garrett in the Deadly Shadows story.

I bought Pandora strictly for its multiplayer. I tried its single player, but I found it to be the same standard Tom Clancy story: Bad Guys get taken out by Good Guy with high tech equipment. However, I had been keeping track of its multiplayer and how it was being structured. I was hooked by the concept and it seemed to me that the developer's had slaved over tweaking this new type of gameply to not just play differently from both sides, but also to be as well balanced as they could manage.

phenopticon
2nd Jun 2004, 18:52
Well that's not all that different from the SC:PT multiplayer, even if Thief had multiplayer that was a different story, apart from Garrett's. In Splinter Cell, Sam Fisher is like THE Spy, and in multiplayer you play as some other faceless spy.

Or even just some LAN play co-op with thief would be nice.

Vjornaxx
2nd Jun 2004, 19:30
Yeah, in Splinter Cell Sam Fischer is THE spy... but I just like the story telling in Thief better than I like the story telling in Splinter Cell. Sam is just a government employee. Sure, he has natural skill and raw talent... but you could train another Fischer. Garrett exhibited a gift at a young age and was picked up by the Keepers who he later abandoned. I mean, this is all opinion, but I think that you could train another super-spy like Fischer easier than you can duplicate the likes of Garrett.

meh... Maybe i'm just growing tired of all the standard military game stories: There are terrorists who are planning on doing bad things to your country... stop them. There are communists who are planning on doing bad things to your country... kill them. You're a mercenary.... kill people. I like the mystical and ambiguous prophecy Garrett gets drawn into. I like how the game builds its story not just through the essential characters, but also through the chatter of the townsfolk and the books they read.