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The Warrior Servant
13th Feb 2004, 04:28
For people who have played Defiance on PC, How did you get around the problems with the fixed camera angles?

IS there a patch or a special cheat code or what?

I've only started playing it and although I've played 2.5 hours (and that's in registered game time, in real time I must have spent at least 6 hours) I'm not even finished the 1st chapter of Raziel's.

I'm a huge fan of LoK but if I can't find a way of making progress I'm going to have to get rid of the game, as its presence taunts me.

Bobman32x
13th Feb 2004, 04:54
Theres no Real, or offical camera fix (though i dont think its neccessary) I personaly dont know how, but theres a way you can go into the game's files, and change a few settings manualy. though i hear it can be dangerous to your PC, so i wouldnt recommend it, unless you had someone who realy knows how to do it to guide you through it. if you had the PS2 version, you could use ben's Debug Code to change the camera to your own setttings.

corwin
14th Feb 2004, 13:55
Originally posted by The Warrior Servant
For people who have played Defiance on PC, How did you get around the problems with the fixed camera angles?

IS there a patch or a special cheat code or what?

I've only started playing it and although I've played 2.5 hours (and that's in registered game time, in real time I must have spent at least 6 hours) I'm not even finished the 1st chapter of Raziel's.

I'm a huge fan of LoK but if I can't find a way of making progress I'm going to have to get rid of the game, as its presence taunts me.

i am afraid you cannot change the camera. There is a patch out there but it won't solve your problem

Galvatron
14th Feb 2004, 14:09
What "problem" with the camera?

The Cinematic camera adds to the entire package making this (IMHO of course) the best game of the entire LOK line. Just play fo a bit and get used to it, the "problem" will go away.

van_HellSing PL
14th Feb 2004, 14:12
I had only a few minor problems with the cam. It just takes a little time to adapt to it.

Bozo
15th Feb 2004, 15:02
Hey there. Why do people ignore the facts abouts the camera problem? If you check the other threads about camera angle : arguments about cameraview you will defenitely see how many people have problems with the camera angles.
I myself am still playing Defiance despite the REALLY IRRITATING CAMERA ANGLES.
Sure, the cinematic view looks nice, but for me personally makes it really difficult to play Defiance and I get irritated by the fact that I can't see where character is going to move.
People here in the forums say that one will get used to it, but really, they don't know what they are talking about unless they are masochistic.
For PC standards the gameplay is unacceptable, coz there is so much more to make of this gameplay than currently. Why, o why is the user retstricted to play the game with the annoying camera view? Why can't the user choose which camera view to play with?
It's really a very simple few line of programming codes. There already is a first person view, which actually has free 3d look, but won't allow the user to move in :mad:
There were sections which I had to play 50 times over because of the stupid, STUPID camera view.

Galvatron
16th Feb 2004, 01:21
Originally posted by Bozo
Hey there. Why do people ignore the facts abouts the camera problem? If you check the other threads about camera angle : arguments about cameraview you will defenitely see how many people have problems with the camera angles.


And in scanning those threads you will also have to note how many people enjoy the camera angles.

The only "problem" if you will, would be that Eidos could have added the mundane 1st person view as an option for people who wanted/needed the same ole same ole...

Bozo
16th Feb 2004, 12:46
Originally posted by Galvatron
And in scanning those threads you will also have to note how many people enjoy the camera angles.

The only "problem" if you will, would be that Eidos could have added the mundane 1st person view as an option for people who wanted/needed the same ole same ole...

Most of them who like the camera angle are fanfanatics of the LOK series. They love everything about the new release as long as they can express their love for the game series in general, even if it means a really, really bad game play. These fanfanatics could be seen as groupies like in the popstar world, they just idolize the LOK series, stories and everything around it. In this view a somewhat buggy gameplay won't affect their opinions, because they already made up their mind about the game: it just has to be fantastic, best game ever etc etc.
If I were a game reviewer(which I am not, but that put aside) I would give the game a score of 97% for graphics and story line, but a mere 30% for gameplay. And in my opinion that is a fair judgment for the PC game version as is.

m4xim
16th Feb 2004, 19:52
I havnt been so irritaded after finishing SR, SR2 and BO2 like i am now after few hours of playing Defiance.
'nuff said.

IMO camera movement was perfect in SR2/BO2, now it's a beatifull gameplay horror :mad:

The Warrior Servant
17th Feb 2004, 03:54
Listen, Bozo has made a number of very good points above.

“Sure, the cinematic view looks nice, but for me personally makes it really difficult to play Defiance and I get irritated by the fact that I can't see where character is going to move… There were sections which I had to play 50 times over because of the stupid, STUPID camera view.”- Bozo, Why do people ignore facts?

Now its been a few days since my last posting and I have made progress with the game while I’m in combat, but as soon as I hit a jump challenge the camera view is so utterly terrible I start going INSANE.
Now in rebuttal to Galvatron’s comments

“anyone who cant blast through this game should not blame the camera, but should instead find a hobby other than PC Games.” – Galvatron.

I like playing PC games much greater than playing those sadistic consoles and I don’t see why I should have to go out and “find a hobby other than PC games” as Galvatron puts it, just because programmers want to go off on some totally insane tangent. Now I would consider myself a “fanfanatic” as Bozo puts it, hell without reading so much as a review about Defiance I payed in excess of $35 (just in shipping) to have the Yank version shipped internationally. And when it arrived I found out that I didn’t have the right drivers so I stayed up all through the night in the searing Aussie heat with a computer who’s chassis in summer runs at 40 C just so I could download them and play the game, I think this might qualify me as a “fanfanatics”. SO as a fan I can say that this camera is hugely and Immensely AND UNAQUIVICALLY BAD!

Dark Abyss
18th Feb 2004, 02:27
Ok from all I see, everyone is right here. The thing is that the camera is really artistic and really nice. The problem is that the character doesn't move according to it somehow because first of all, you can't make precision movements to prepare a jump. Then you cannot make a "perfect jump" with this kind of camera because it doesn't always align with the direction of the jump and direction combinations are really anoying when you really don't know how the character is going to react. I somehow like this camera but it's not suited for PC games. And believe me...I'm a real old gamer and i get used to any type of control challenge but this was really hard. Maybe with a game console or joystick or whatever it would have been a greater experience but keyboards are just not the answer for a happy gaming with this type of camera.

The Warrior Servant
18th Feb 2004, 02:47
Originally posted by Dark Abyss
Maybe with a game console or joystick or whatever it would have been a greater experience but keyboards are just not the answer for a happy gaming with this type of camera.


Getting a console controller is not the answer though. The problem is that controls are orientated according to camera, I could bare with the hideously bad angles if I all I had to do is use first person view to line up jumps and then just press forward and jump, but there is no forward key.

I realise that this is partially a control issue, but remember that in the standard RPG 3rd person view you always move with in the direction of the camera any way, so this is still a camera problem.

Not being able to see enemies is also greatly annoying.

Dark Abyss
18th Feb 2004, 02:54
True, True :)
The best thing would have been though to be able to chose between the anoying camera angles or a camera similar to SR2. Many say that it wasn't so "bright" but it was my favorite in the whole serie.

The Warrior Servant
18th Feb 2004, 03:23
Personally I like BO1 the best however if they fixed the camera then I could quite definitely say that Defiance would be the best

m4xim
18th Feb 2004, 14:50
After few puzzles with moving blocks or fast jumping i would like to say one more thing: show me the guy who said "hey, cinematic camera all the time would be so great!" and i'll hang him on the nearest friggin' tree!

Stupidly simple jump has been made idiotically dificult because of this damn camera!

To all those fancy camera lovers: didn't you noticed that when you are moving some block or statue the direction it is moving is always different than the one you want? Same button will move blocks in several direction every time camera changes angle even a tiny bit!
And jumping or walking on a ledges - you jump in one direction, but the camera suddenly changes angle and you are landing in the wrong place.

Doh! I could kill someone now! :mad:

P.S. I swear, i'm not gonna buy any new game from LOK series if there will be forced cinematic camera. TBH i would even want 50% refound for Defiance, refound for all my frustration....

P.P.S. Yes, i'm MAD right now, very VERY mad! :mad:

Dark Abyss
18th Feb 2004, 22:23
I liked the cam in Blood Omen too. As simple as it was, it did its job. But come on, what's the reason to make beautifull graphics if you can't enjoy them in their full 3d-iness ? That was a real problem with the cinematic cam too. I allways like "exploring" a games graphics and i wasn't really able this time. That was a big boo-boo.
Maybe eidos will get some senses and make either a new and good camera or give us the ability to chose between different camera mods. I don't think it's that hard.

m4xim
19th Feb 2004, 00:54
I calmed dow na bit so i'll post again.

Don't get me wrong, cinematic cam has it's place in LOK-D, but not in the whole game. It could be used in boss fights and moments like that, but it was mighty annoying while solving puzzles or making breakneck jumps. As i saind before, easy jumps has been made damn difficult in some moments because of cinematic cam (i.e. quick jumps on platforms in some puzzles). There was also places where it worked well, like fight with Turel, it was mighty fine there.
So in other words: it should be possible to choose what kind of cam to use, or camera should switch to cinematic only in certain moment. As for now it's a tragedy.

The Warrior Servant
19th Feb 2004, 04:17
Originally posted by m4xim
Doh! I could kill someone now! :mad:

P.S. I swear, i'm not gonna buy any new game from LOK series if there will be forced cinematic camera. TBH i would even want 50% refound for Defiance, refound for all my frustration....

P.P.S. Yes, i'm MAD right now, very VERY mad! :mad:


We've all been there, plenty of times, but don't give up on the series just because this time around some "incredibly dense cranium people"** folly with the camera. The story is what counts.

By the way has anyone found out who these "incredibly dense cranium people" are, and how we can contact then, so we can send personal communications of disappointment?

(Wow even I'm surprised at how well I'm holding my tong.)




** To offer proof of this claim and hence support the notion is valid, I now mention the camera to which quite a number of people are dissatisfied and indicating that no game play testing have been carried out, hence showing their incompetence at game production. Much like Microsoft.

m4xim
19th Feb 2004, 22:29
Yeah, i didnt' gave up and finished Defiance before my last post. Ovarally it was friggin great, the best part of series so far IMO. I don't need to explain why i liked it so much here on Defiance forum ;)
But that doesn't change the fact that this camera thingie was a major setback, not always, but it was.
Oh, and one more word of criticism, someone blew the main menu music :p

The Warrior Servant
20th Feb 2004, 14:05
Originally posted by m4xim
Oh, and one more word of criticism, someone blew the main menu music :p

Really? I rather like the main menu music; it takes a while before you get to the tune but other than that I though it to be quite good. Too good actually now I can't get it out of my head.

Bozo
20th Feb 2004, 16:50
Well, I finally completed the game. It was in the end worth the aggrevation of the really stupid camera views during jump and run, fighting etc. But I will definitely not be playing it again because of it and that's a shame, coz the graphics are superb and I like the music too.

Too bad EIDOS, too late for a game patch either for me.

m4xim
22nd Feb 2004, 00:47
Well, i'm still waiting for a camera hack/patch. I would like to play Defiance again in some time, but not in it's current state.


The Warrior Servant: this music in almost the same like in SR2 but some samples are poorly mixed and sometimes it sound like Mortal Combat disco version:p

The Warrior Servant
25th Feb 2004, 16:06
Since my last post I have now completed the game and I'll admit its good, but those camera angle where enough for me to want to kill some one at times (just not only while jumping but also in combat at times.) The only thing about the game that anoyed me more than the cameras was that once I finished it I had no more game to play.


Originally posted by m4xim
The Warrior Servant: this music in almost the same like in SR2 but some samples are poorly mixed and sometimes it sound like Mortal Combat disco version:p

Great, now I can't get the SR2 music out of my head.

rikbriant
26th Feb 2004, 00:18
By the way has anyone found out who these "incredibly dense cranium people" are, and how we can contact then, so we can send personal communications of disappointment?


** To offer proof of this claim and hence support the notion is valid, I now mention the camera to which quite a number of people are dissatisfied and indicating that no game play testing have been carried out, hence showing their incompetence at game production. Much like Microsoft. [/B][/QUOTE]

I hate to say it... BUT THIS CAMERA SUCKS...big time.
I have religiously followed this series , because of its twisting storyline...SR2 & BO2 I could move the camera with the character useing the mouse.. there were times that this was'nt appropriate and a wider view would have been better.
However, I find that defiance is almost unplayable in some areas
as you CANNOT judge where the character will move to with relation to the camera and/or the movment buttons.
IMO this game was desighned to be played primarily on a console... where you have LESS inherant control options than a PC, the game wasnt ported properly onto the PC and this smacks of zero development and gameplay testing... or just BLATANT comercialism..(..the customers are just mad fantics who will buy anything that is branded LoK...so we dont care...:P.. )

A reply from the developers realy is required here... or a patch to allow for customers choice of camera angle....or I fear that the next game is going to flop big time, as it will probably have some more "Novel" controls that dont allow proper playability.

Nybis
26th Feb 2004, 09:54
I also have a few issues with the camera. Although it's not that bad and I am getting used to it.
But it's impossible to get used to the fact that sometimes it's impossible to see where you're going. Like when performing precicion jumping and such. In those times I really miss being able to rotate the camera.
The camera angles in the game is very effectful and makes it look very beutiful. But I'd like to be able to have more control over it when I need to.

Eleriel
26th Feb 2004, 10:19
it's really rather simple...
by not letting the player make their own desicision, they're needlessly alienating players that might otherwise have loved the game beyond compare.

shoddy... and somewhat arrogant.