PDA

View Full Version : [SPOILER] 'renegade progenitor'



omegafury
10th Feb 2004, 19:00
in chapter4, when raziel meets the hylden for the first time, they call him 'renegade progenitor'. do you know what this means?!

raziel, or maybe the reaver, is the father of the whole hylden race.

i have no idea how or even why, but it fits into the story. let's say raz's spawn goes to the ancient past, that would explain there dissapearance in SR1, and to protect the ancients from the parasitic elder god, they fight the elder. the loyal vampires dont take these actions too well and thus start a war against the hylden (raziel's spawn). those hylden, in a last desperate attempt to save the vamps unleash the bloodlust curse which throws them from the wheel of fate.

yet again, the vamps dont take this too well and put the hylden in the demon dimension and seal it with the pillars.
over the millenia, the hylden get ticked about being in pergatory and decide to screw the ancient vamps and take over nosgoth.

make sense?well it shouldn't because paradox is common in LoK. but this my theory

Umah Bloodomen
10th Feb 2004, 19:13
Originally posted by omegafury
in chapter4, when raziel meets the hylden for the first time, they call him 'renegade progenitor'. do you know what this means?!


From my good friend, Merriam-Webster:



Main Entry: 1ren·e·gade
Pronunciation: 're-ni-"gAd
Function: noun
Etymology: Spanish renegado, from Medieval Latin renegatus, from past participle of renegare to deny, from Latin re- + negare to deny -- more at NEGATE
1 : a deserter from one faith, cause, or allegiance to another
2 : an individual who rejects lawful or conventional behavior



One entry found for progenitor.


Main Entry: pro·gen·i·tor
Pronunciation: prO-'je-n&-t&r, pr&-
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English, from Middle French progeniteur, from Latin progenitor, from progignere to beget, from pro- forth + gignere to beget -- more at KIN
1 a : an ancestor in the direct line : FOREFATHER b : a biologically ancestral form
2 : PRECURSOR, ORIGINATOR <progenitors of socialist ideas -- Times Literary Supplement>

omegafury
10th Feb 2004, 19:20
it was retorical

zero01
10th Feb 2004, 19:24
in the end , and thru these posts, we found that raz. was both figues in the murels, he was both the "savior and destroyer"
that point was given away at the begining of SR2.

raz. found out that if he did not sacrifice himself to the reaver,
he would be forever enslaved by the Elder. WE find that after raz does this, Kain's vision is, given strong clarity, allowing him to see the Eldor for what he is. hopefully,, we all can luck out and get another addition to the series and find out what happed afterward.


ps:
pls pls pls pls pls pls pls pls pls pls PPPPPPPLLLLLEEEEEAAAAASSSSEEE!!!!!!!!! for the love of KAIN!
let there be another sweet chapter in this wonderful legacy

Umah Bloodomen
10th Feb 2004, 19:30
Originally posted by omegafury
it was retorical

Rhetorical. :) I only added the definitions just in case other members of the community weren't clear on the meaning and so they could ponder over what you've presented. :)

omegafury
10th Feb 2004, 19:35
ok

Dogfight
10th Feb 2004, 20:24
Hold on I think you might have misheard what the Revenants called Raziel.

They do call him renegade, but I recall after that they call him traitor, not "progenitor". I know of this because I checked out the dialogue just to make sure I wouldn't make any mistakes with subtitles. I did this a while back for an analysis I was doing on the Hylden.

Here is the dialogue:

Revenants: “..Raziel… …Raziel… Fallen Hero… Renegade and traitor…"

Raziel: "…What is this? How do you know me?"

Revenants: " …Raziel, what are you? …Why should any know your name? …You are nothing…”

omegafury
12th Feb 2004, 02:12
oh, okay. but being called a traitor by the hylden revenant is still interesting

why is he a traitor to them? or maybe they're refering to the vamps

hmmm...

DJpick
12th Feb 2004, 02:50
let's say raz's spawn goes to the ancient past, that would explain there dissapearance in SR1, and to protect the ancients from the parasitic elder god, they fight the elder. the loyal vampires dont take these actions too well and thus start a war against the hylden (raziel's spawn). those hylden, in a last desperate attempt to save the vamps unleash the bloodlust curse which throws them from the wheel of fate.
Why would they go back? NO ONE knew about the Ancients in SR1, not even Raziel. So they would have no reason to do it. And I doubt Kain knew enough to have a reason to send them back, seeing as how he didn't know about the EG.

Besides, the Fledglings couldn't go back to change anything seeing as how they don't have a paradox to use.

omegafury
13th Feb 2004, 17:34
kain knew, he'd met janos.

he could've cast them to another time as a means of destroying them

DJpick
13th Feb 2004, 19:08
See that's the problem. Janos was dead in BO1, and Kain never knew one in SR1. I'm sure he knew of Janos, but didnt know what he was. Didn't he describe him as the most powerful vampire at that point? Then SR2 created the new timeline, and He DID meet him.