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Protector_Malek
9th Feb 2004, 16:52
In Blood Omen 1= Manipulating Kain to save the pillars and restore nosgoth balance.
In Soul Reaver 1= She doesn't know Raziel. She helps him to complete his tasks... why? so she can finally be free from the pillars once kain sacrifices himself?
In Soul reaver 2= She meets Raziel... then why in SR1 she doesn't recognize him? and does she act like a psycho or what?
In Defiance= A total Psycho again, why does she acts like that? and then again.... why doesn't she recognize Raziel? she saw him in Soul reaver 2, in the past.

van_HellSing PL
9th Feb 2004, 17:03
Let's just say Ariel's a bit... unbalanced ;).

Raz
9th Feb 2004, 17:50
Chronologically, Raziel first meets Ariel during the time of Blood Omen whilst Kain is slaughtering the corrupted Circle members. Next, Raziel meets Ariel approximately one century after Kain damns Nosgoth and then he meets her during the events of Soul Reaver which occur over one thousand years later. Ariel does not know Raziel when they meet in the Blood Omen era and the time shortly after Kain damns Nosgoth.

Ariel knows Raziel when they meet in Soul Reaver, and she even calls him by his name. Personally, I think she knows who he is as she probably overheard the conversation between Raziel and Kain mere minutes before. That, and she may know his name as Raziel was formerly one of Kain's Lieutenants.

Remember, Ariel is bound to the Pillars of Nosgoth... I'm sure she must have overheard the odd conversation or two over the centuries. :p

Umah Bloodomen
9th Feb 2004, 18:02
Protector_Malek ~ Please select more forum appropriate terms to include in your posts. Also, please review the Terms of Use of Our Community (http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=18226) at your earliest convenience.

Thanks. :)

Protector_Malek
9th Feb 2004, 22:07
hummmmmm:
n :female of any member of the dog family
when they are in heat, they are very agressive.... how come that is a bad word?

I still think there's something strrange here... in SR1 ariel does not fully know raziel.... and she shoud have, since they met in BO1 era... and in Defiance, she doesn't recognize raziel again-.---

Dogfight
9th Feb 2004, 23:47
Well, let us have a look at all of the conversations of Ariel's spirit from all the games in the order of the timeline.

This is at the beginning of Defiance, the time of Blood Omen 1, newly recorded first meeting.



Ariel: What manner of creature approaches?

Raziel: I know you well, Ariel, though you do not yet know me.

Ariel: I have no time for riddles, strange one.

Raziel: All you have is time. I have come to seek your guidance.

Ariel: I counsel only one man, and you are not he. But you will know him soon. The contagion of your kind is coming to an end.

Raziel: My kind? What exactly do you think I am?

Ariel: Your name shall remain 'Unspoken', as decreed by our ancestors. You serve the one who so brutally took my life and set this tragedy in motion. But even now, hope is at work, Balance will be restored, and your kind will be expelled forever.

Raziel: You have pinned your hopes on Kain. He will disappoint you.

Ariel: What can you know of Kain?

Raziel: More than you could ever fathom.

Ariel: He will do what he must when the time comes.

Raziel: By choosing his own death? A sacrifice for the world? You don't know Kain very well.

Ariel: I know what he is called to do. My faith sustains me.
Raziel: Is it faith, or fear? You know that if Kain refuses the sacrifice, you will never leave here. And you begin to suspect...

Ariel: I will not hear your poison, fiend.

Raziel: Grant me the answers I require, and I will leave you to your pathetic delusions.

Ariel: Ask then.

Raziel: I seek the vampire Vorador.

Ariel: To kill him, perhaps? Or to join him in death? But for Kain, he is the last of his kind. Moebius' mob has done its work.

Raziel: My reasons are my own.

Ariel: His refuge lies in the heart of the Termogent Forest. And may you molder there together until the end comes.


The spirit of Ariel believes Raziel to be a Hylden spirit possibly in possession of a dead corpse, she doesn't trust him, nor does she know him and she doesn't really want to pay attention to him.

This next quote below is from close to the finally of Defiance, and close to the end of the Blood Omen 1 era, but from before the fall of the Pillars.


(After activating the Spirit Forge, Ariel appears, pristine and beautiful, as she was before her murder.)

Ariel: It is accomplished. The forge summons the spirit of every Balance Guardian to itself, for this final purpose.

Raziel: Ariel? You?

Ariel: Yes, Raziel, yet I am much more than I was. The veil is lifted from my sight. My spirit, united with the souls of my predecessors, is drawn here now for the final baptism of the blade. To restore Balance, the sword must be rendered pure by Spirit. Release me, Raziel - the Soul Reaver has the power. Release us all. For this we were called.

(Ariel extends her hand toward Raziel, who takes it warily. As their fingers touch, Ariel is drawn, through Raziel, into the Wraith Blade. Ariel's voice intonates in his mind.)

Ariel: You have done well, Raziel. But there is one more trial for you to bear. You must unite what has been set asunder. Only then will the Scion of Balance be armed for his true endeavor. Only then...


Ariel's spirit recognizes Raziel, the reason being that the future spirit of Ariel was summoned to the Spirit Forge, after being released from the Pillars when the future older Kain died. It can be argued that it can't be the present spirit of Ariel because she is still tied and imprisoned to the Pillars, thus she wouldn't be able to leave them.

This next quote below is from Soul Reaver 2, 100 years after Blood Omen 1, the dark forces menioned in the conversation are the Hylden.



Ariel: Forever am I bound, hope abandoned, my spirit tethered to this place... What destroyed the Circle could not touch me. For I was newly dead, and beyond harm's reach. I alone was spared the descent into madness, and Kain alone was spared the pain of death. When Nupraptor's poison seized Kain even in the safety of the womb, much more than just his destiny was lost. All of Nosgoth lost Balance. Consider us now... both of us less than we once were. I, pure but insubstantial; and Kain, terribly real, but corrupted.

(Raziel interrupts Ariel's reverie, and she turns in alarm.)

Raziel: You imprisonment here has deranged you, spirit. You fixate on Kain because you believe he is the tether that binds you here. But we both know he is not the author of your agony. The Pillars were subverted by dark forces, invited by the Guardians themselves. The more I learn of your Circle, the more I see a tangle of nested manipulations.

(Ariel responds angrily.)

Ariel: Kain handed them their victory. They sought to topple the Pillars, and he was their willing instrument.

(Raziel interrupts, challenging her.)

Raziel: Or was he their unwilling pawn? Would it blunt your wrath to know that Kain's dilemma was calculated to bring the Pillars down, regardless of the choice he made? And that the devastation would have been even greater had he chosen the path you would prescribe for him?

Ariel: You are a subtle, deceitful creature. But your clever arguments do not absolve Kain. He must die for the Pillars to be restored; there is no other way.

Raziel: Then consider this more ominous possibility - what if Kain's death does not restore the Pillars? Consider that it may simply be too late. That this world may be beyond redemption. And that you may be bound here eternally.

(Distraught, Ariel flees into the spirit realm, unaware that Raziel is able to follow. Raziel shifts into spectral and startles her as she cowers behind the Balance Pillar. Cornered and miserable, Ariel implores Raziel.)

Ariel: Why do you hound me, demon? You can see that I am captive here. Show me some mercy.

Raziel: Like the mercy you showed your fellow Guardians when you set Kain on them? Or the mercy you showed Kain when you kept him ignorant of his destiny while you used him as the scourge of the Circle? Or perhaps like the mercy you showed your beloved Nupraptor when you made him Kain's first kill?

Ariel: You are cruel. Why do you torment me?

(Weary of this, Raziel relents.)

Raziel: I'm merely looking for answers, Ariel. Very well - I'll leave you in peace. But know this - about you, and this purgatory from which you long to escape...you're merely at the threshold.


Notice the the spirit of Ariel calls Raziel a subtle deceitful creature here, back in Defiance at the time of Blood Omen 1 she called Raziel's words, "poison", she also refers to Raziel as a "demon" a term that has at times been used by others for describing the Hylden. Perhaps Ariel's spirit does recognize Raziel from before in this era. She doesn't yet know who or what exactly Raziel is, nor does she know his name, but she now considers Raziel a defender of Kain.

Finally this last quote below is the dialogue from thousands of years in the future of Soul Reaver 1.



(A specter appears before Raziel. It is of a woman, half of her face is young and beautiful, and the other half dead and rotten. She speaks to Raziel)

Ariel: What are you, little soul? Another of Kain's creatures come to taunt this bound specter?

Raziel: I did not intend to disturb your rest.

Ariel: Rest...? A body is needed for sleep, flesh and bones are required to recline. No, child, all I may do is watch and remember, ceaselessly conscious as this wretched world's history unfolds. Ghastly past, insufferable future, are they one and the same? Am I always here?

Raziel: How have you come to haunt these Pillars?

Ariel: Kain refused the sacrifice. The Pillar of Balance, corrupted to its core, stands as a monument to his blind ambition. Now these pillars serve only to bind me here, my prison and eternal home, thanks to the avarice of your master, Kain...

Raziel: That bastard can claim no allegiance from me.

Ariel: Then we share a common foe, Raziel. Return here when you have need. Ariel remembers what others have forgotten...


Look at the dialogue: "What are you, little soul? Another of Kain's creatures come to taunt this bound specter?" Ariel recalls the events thousands of years ago back in Soul Reaver 2.

What is more she knows about the Vampire Lieutenant Raziel, but at first in this conversation she did not reconize that the ghoul in front of her was Raziel, during the conversation she figures it out.

She also seems to hint at meeting Raziel before by her words: "Ghastly past, insufferable future, are they one and the same? Am I always here?"

Protector_Malek
10th Feb 2004, 00:16
dude, but if ariel saw Raziel in SR2, she should have recognized him in defiance, in the BO1 era.
And don't give me the "she forgot" crap

Raz
10th Feb 2004, 00:23
No she wouldn't. Ariel met Raziel during the Blood Omen era during Defiance. In Soul Reaver 2 she met him one century after the Blood Omen era when Kain damned the Pillars of Nosgoth... ;)

Umah Bloodomen
10th Feb 2004, 02:55
Originally posted by Protector_Malek
hummmmmm:
n :female of any member of the dog family
when they are in heat, they are very agressive.... how come that is a bad word?

It's inappropriate for forum use (especially in the context you elected to use it in). If you'd like to further discuss this, I again advise you to follow the TOU and address the issue via Private Channels (PM's and/or email). If you have a problem adhering to the rules you agreed to prior to making a single post here then perhaps we should address that as well.

Protector_Malek
10th Feb 2004, 11:50
o-kkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk. :(