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kotor
7th Feb 2004, 16:09
eidos is reporting lower than expected profits and is naming less than spectacular sales of defiance as a reason.

gamespy reported this

this, on top of the fact crystal dynamics is now in charge of doing tombraider, means bad things for us...

which sucks, cuz this game should have sold great....it was much better than the previous games.

http://cgi.gamefaqs.com/boards/genm...;topic=12416269

Lady Kreliana
7th Feb 2004, 17:43
I'm getting Page Cannot be Found with that link.

I wouldn't worry about whether or not there would be another sequel. Remember, people said the same things after SR2 and BO2 were released.

KaliMagdalene
7th Feb 2004, 21:48
So, link to the Gamespy story?

xarax
7th Feb 2004, 22:06
Retail price for PC version has already dropped 20%. I guess the word is getting around that the game is too hard to control. Who wants to play a game that's no fun because of the frustrating lack of control?

sad...it didn't have to be this way...
:(

Jeffers
7th Feb 2004, 22:25
Well if it's the end of the series, it's the end of the series.

As much as I hate to say it there is nothing we can do about it if Eidos stops making it because it isn't making them money, as much as we would all hate to see it end.

But, I'm not sure whether this will have any effect on their statement or not, normally, or all past Legacy of Kain games have been released in the UK/Europe and the US within the same trading quater so if they go on sales of that, then they are bound to only get half the sales they were expecting. :rolleyes: Like I say, I don't know if it will effect it or not, probably doesn't.

Jeffers

vampire-vorador
7th Feb 2004, 23:03
Well if they are puting an end in the series I think they should realy do the end with a final game.

theextremepiercing
7th Feb 2004, 23:57
Doesn't the fact that CD are now in control of Tomb Raider mean that more Legacy Of Kain games are more LIKELY to be made?

ParadoxFiend
8th Feb 2004, 08:20
That would be very bad. Money shmoney. It's the principal of the matter. There has to a final game where the Hylden go down once and for all. I would like to see Kain go back the SR1 time and crush them. Since he has the most powerfully enhanced reaver, he should be able too. Especially, at the cost of the enhancement.:( Which I hope in some way or another can reversed, if only for a time. I already miss him.

PF

MortaniusRaisedGrandma
11th Feb 2004, 17:09
As long as the public (us) keep on expressing interest in the game series they can hardly refuse to continue making LOK games because profit can be made.

van_HellSing PL
11th Feb 2004, 17:19
I guess the word is getting around that the game is too hard to control. Who wants to play a game that's no fun because of the frustrating lack of control? Yup, xarax as obsessed as ever :rolleyes:.

Personally, I think it's lack of promotion that is keeping the LoK series sell low... Look at the Tomb Raider series -it's much worse than LoK, but it's got a great promotional engine, so it sells better. :(

Errant Turel
11th Feb 2004, 18:15
The thing is LoK is a cult series with a small but devoted hardcore of fans and, lets face it the last few games havn't been great (which is Eidos' fault for making them action games instead of keeping with their RPG roots.) and the main appeal of the series is actually the game's story, universe and the iconic characters backed up by incredbile scripting and voice acting. The gameplay has really devolved since Soul Reaver, with the following games' mechanics being repetetive, unoriginal, and, with Defaince a really bad game camera.
That said it would really be a shame not to have another sequel, just to finish the awesome with a big bang.

Zephon
11th Feb 2004, 18:51
maybe they shud re-release BO1 wit better grafics, sum people are REALLY after a copy.

or maybe a lok fightin game, but kain would win with raziels soul in da reaver.

IT CAN'T END, NOT LIKE THIS!:eek: :mad: :mad: :mad:

Errant Turel
11th Feb 2004, 19:00
Zephon i am in complete agreement. Perhaps Kain and Raziel should be in the next Soul Caliber (No pun intended).

van_HellSing PL
11th Feb 2004, 19:05
Fighting in two player mode would indeed be fun, maybe CD should include it as a bonus in the next game, something like the duel codes for Enter the Matrix...

Chris@Crystal
11th Feb 2004, 20:20
Just to let you all know...
There is another LOK game in the works.
Nothing official has been announced about it yet.
~Chris

van_HellSing PL
11th Feb 2004, 20:25
Great news :D

I just hope there's going to be a PC version...

Lär
11th Feb 2004, 20:28
Originally posted by Chris@Crystal
Just to let you all know...
There is another LOK game in the works.
Nothing official has been announced about it yet.
~Chris

Now, that's good to know. :cool:

***watches the posts in the this thread grow and grOW and GROW...***

hehe... ;)

Later! :D

Errant Turel
11th Feb 2004, 20:54
Nice one lads! "We are one step closer to our destiny." I gonna be looking forward to this.

moose562
11th Feb 2004, 21:01
Originally posted by van_HellSing PL
Look at the Tomb Raider series -it's much worse than LoK

oh come on! tomb raider isn't that bad? i mean i only looked at soul reaver because it reminded me so much of TR - ie, the block moving and puzzles, the level design and scale - plus they are big adventure titles.

Ok, AOD was pants, I'll admit that but the early TRs are still playable.

One wish from me to CD about TR is that they make the controls less difficult to master and make lara more fluid. This was said to me today by a good friend and i couldnt agree more.

maybe we could have kain meets lara! <dies>

Umah Bloodomen
11th Feb 2004, 21:06
Originally posted by moose562
maybe we could have kain meets lara! <dies>

I don't see why not, afterall, Umah already met Lara... (http://umahbloodomen.members.easyspace.com/miscimages/umahraider.jpg). :D

van_HellSing PL
11th Feb 2004, 21:07
Hmm, Tomb Reaver? Soul Raider? ;)

Tomb Raider isn't that bad, but IMHO LoK is waaay better :D.

Errant Turel
11th Feb 2004, 21:13
TR2 wasn't too bad but the rest were pointless. I'm not even gonna talk about AoD. I hope Lok6 moves away from that sort of shallow affair and ditches the stupid push- block puzzles for something more cerebral and less repetetive. Console games have evloved, witness Biowares KoTR.

Enihcam
11th Feb 2004, 21:43
Cool picture Umah :D

Good to hear that there's another game in the works although it doesn't really suprise me. As of now I think most of us only forsee one more game coming out anyway. We just have to hope that the sales will justify it.

I've been trying to get more of my friends into the series so that they'll buy the games. So far I've gotten one to become a loyal fan. All you have to do is get them into the story and with the intro for SR1 and SR2 on the Defiance disc combined with a little explanation, it's not all that difficult. Not to mention if they watch you play Defiance for a bit they can see how pretty it is :) The only drawback is getting them into the first 2 games because they are outdated which is a shame since those 2 have the core of the story.

TheWatcher
11th Feb 2004, 22:14
Well, now that we know that there is going to be at least one more LOK installment (for now, anyway) and that the BL is monitoring our humble thread, just some suggestions based on all the pros and cons voiced thus far:

1)Either revert to a previous camera system or take the time to perfect the cinematic camera, meaning we don't find ourselves blinded by a wall, tree, etc., and remain largely behind our character unless otherwise necessary.

2) Get back (as much as possible) to the BO1 RPG style of play and reduce the repetition of areas and redundant combat with enemies that have been killed and killed and kil...

3) For all the PC gamers (of which I'm not one), refine the keyboard controls to be as smooth and responsive as a game pad.

I think these refinements would address 99% of people's gripes with Defiance, and with CD's great story LOK will end on a BIG high note.

Black Wraith
11th Feb 2004, 23:40
It's a good thing that a new game is in the works. But I do hope that it's not the end, but if it is.... I sure hope that they'll end it well. I, being a fan of the LoK series since I was 10 (my dad got me into it when he got Blood Omen 1 back in '96), have been on the LoK bandwagon since the beginning, I don't wanna be disappointed now.

DJpick
12th Feb 2004, 02:42
Just because the PC version is doing bad, doesn't mean the whole release is doing poorly. They KNEW the PC version would sell poorly because PC game sales are dropping lately. Consoles are becoming better game systems and rival what computers can do.

Also, PC prices ALWAYS drop. I bought SR1 SR2, and BO2 for about $60 TOTAL.

smokey
12th Feb 2004, 10:20
I am glad there is going to be another game after defiance. i mean there is still so much to explain.

1)Janos Audron says "raziel there may yet be hope. there is one who will be called; you must seek the scion of balance..." so does thet mean only Kain as the scion of balance can finally restore the pillers to the vampires.


2) how is Vorodor alive in Blood omen 2?

They explain how Janos Audron is alive because raziel ressurected him

3) is the Hilden Lord in blood omen 2 the Hilden's Champion who has the famming sword.

DJpick
12th Feb 2004, 10:46
HL is NOT the Hylden Champion. It has been established by Amy those Hylden Ancient Heros represent Raziel. He has a Hybrid destiny. Had he chose one path, the Ancients would win. Had he chose another, the Hylden would have oine. But he finally began to believe Kain and chose the edge of the coin, and acted in a way that Kain hadn't expected.

Also,

how is Vorodor alive in Blood omen 2?
Based on the fact that Chris@CD said something intriguing. SOmeone asked why Vorador was so weak in BO2, and Chris replied "didn't you play BO1?" Implying that Vorador DID die, and it was the reason he was so weak (much like Janos was weak in Defiance).

So I have two theories...

1. Kain somehow found a way to restore him.
2. The HL somehow restored him for purposes unknown.
3. I lied, I have three. Somehow the Seer restored him, and this is why Vorador and her have an association of sorts.

Umah and I were talking, and I thinK I agree with her now. Scion of Balance isn't a job oyu fulfill, it's kind of like an Honorary title. Kain is the FIRST Guardian to be born a human, and raised a vampire. Atleast the first Balance Guardian that we know of, and as we know the Balance is the Hub of the Pillars. So I think the Scion was a prophecy as well, the first Vampire Balance Guardian.

But that's just me.

Lär
12th Feb 2004, 12:28
Originally posted by DJpick
Just because the PC version is doing bad...

Who said the PC version was doing bad?? Apparantly you missed the trading update from Eidos, back around Jan 20th.

During the six month period to December 31, 2003, and as planned, the Company released 23 SKUs (10 products), including Backyard Wrestling: Don't Try This at Home, Commandos 3: Destination Berlin, Legacy of Kain: Defiance, Championship Manager: Season 03/04 and Deus Ex: Invisible War. Sales performed broadly in line with management's expectations, with the exception of Commandos 3 and Legacy of Kain, which did not achieve expected levels. This, combined with US hardware sales falling short of market forecasts, and the adverse impact caused by the weakening of the US dollar, will result in revenue for the period being modestly below market expectations.
The entire update can be read here (http://biz.yahoo.com/bw/040120/205737_1.html).

Before the European release, Defiance was not selling well at all, across ALL platforms. Hopefully the Euro folks can pull Defiance up, and prevent it from drowning.

Later! :D

kakarot
13th Feb 2004, 06:18
Originally posted by Umah Bloodomen
I don't see why not, afterall, Umah already met Lara... (http://umahbloodomen.members.easyspace.com/miscimages/umahraider.jpg). :D
mwuahahahaha.. that was wicked.


Originally posted by Chris@Crystal
Just to let you all know...
There is another LOK game in the works.
Nothing official has been announced about it yet.
~Chris

there is a god!!!

Blue Winged Fellow
13th Feb 2004, 17:15
Originally posted by kakarot
mwuahahahaha.. that was wicked.



there is a god!!!

Apparently so... But lets just hope it is only 'till the end of the next game... ;) :D

kain-the-great
14th Feb 2004, 18:48
they can't stop lok now... heck defiance was to much of a leave ya hanging at the end... kinda mad me go huh that's it... defianetly needs a sequal... stops and thinks for a bit...hmm. :D :p :D

xarax
15th Feb 2004, 03:20
Originally posted by DJpick
... Consoles are becoming better game systems and rival what computers can do.


:D

KaliMagdalene
15th Feb 2004, 03:41
Originally posted by xarax
:D

Yes, a common reaction by those who are afraid to soil their hands with a controller.

More seriously, what's important is an entertaining gaming experience. For some games, PCs excel. For other games, consoles excel. There is no one solution for all games at this time, I think.

Omni_Sephiroth
15th Feb 2004, 04:40
I wouldent worry chris said a while ago that they had already started making Defiance 2 and i doubt that they would dissapoint all those fans because that would mean bad business for eidos.

DJpick
15th Feb 2004, 06:11
I never said consoles were taking over, but they're on their way :) I don't care what the system the game is on (as long as I have a system to play it on :)) just as long as the game is good. Sometimes PC games have been better, sometimes Console games are better. But in the end, the game is just good.

Errant Turel
15th Feb 2004, 11:07
I agree with The Watcher, when they started to turn away from the rpg formula and create a a series of Tomb Raider clones things started to go wrong. The LoK series could've been so much more, it deserves to be so much more.
It could've been a series to rival all-time classics series like Zelda or Baldures Gate (the PC incarnations not the watered-down Gauntlet clones called Dark Alliance, which just illustrates my point.) or even Final Fantasty (If Silicon Knights had done it LoK could've TOPPED final fantasy).
As gamers we've been playing great, but still ultimately flawed games. As consequence reviews in magasines have been average (Definace highest reviews average at about 80% with Blood Omen2 and Soul Reaver2 hitting low 60% scores) and sales have not done well as expected leading to a choice whether to finish the story or cut losses and run.
We've all paid the price for somebody's lack of vision.

van_HellSing PL
15th Feb 2004, 11:26
Errant Turel - funny you should mention Zelda, because this is what not only BO1 but also SR1 reminded me of -large world, but you can't reach some places, go solve some puzzles, fight a boss, get an ability that which makes some places accessible, and so on... Just add a good plot and some secrets, and whaddya get? ;)

DJpick
16th Feb 2004, 05:10
Dude, you just described just about EVERY game ever made :)

Zephon
16th Feb 2004, 08:32
Originally posted by Errant Turel
I agree with The Watcher, when they started to turn away from the rpg formula and create a a series of Tomb Raider clones things started to go wrong. The LoK series could've been so much more, it deserves to be so much more.
It could've been a series to rival all-time classics series like Zelda or Baldures Gate (the PC incarnations not the watered-down Gauntlet clones called Dark Alliance, which just illustrates my point.) or even Final Fantasty (If Silicon Knights had done it LoK could've TOPPED final fantasy).
As gamers we've been playing great, but still ultimately flawed games. As consequence reviews in magasines have been average (Definace highest reviews average at about 80% with Blood Omen2 and Soul Reaver2 hitting low 60% scores) and sales have not done well as expected leading to a choice whether to finish the story or cut losses and run.
We've all paid the price for somebody's lack of vision.

lok does top zeilda & bg + since 8 ff been going crap,

Kuroryu
16th Feb 2004, 10:34
Ten years ago, I wouldn't have touched a console at that point. Now, it's got so annoying worrying about whether my computer's too good or not good enough to play a game. I tried playing Deus Ex on my computer recently and it went so fast I couldn't play it at all. Compare this with Soul Reaver 2, which went a bit slower than I'd prefer. True, if you can get a game to work, it's probably more fun than sitting watching a TV. But who wants to take the chance. Consoles have definitely surpassed computers.

Chaotix
16th Feb 2004, 19:00
Originally posted by Omni_Sephiroth
I wouldent worry chris said a while ago that they had already started making Defiance 2 and i doubt that they would dissapoint all those fans because that would mean bad business for eidos.

I'm all for another game (in like every way possible), but please do not, and I repeat, DO NOT call it Defiance 2.:p . Just my two cents.

exmachinad
24th May 2006, 03:08
lok does top zeilda & bg + since 8 ff been going crap

IMO, in the PLOT departament I agree 100%, but for the gameplay itself... is has been going from bad to worse. Sure, the ocmbat in LoKD was great, but way to repetitive and lacked all the grea pzuzzles/things to discover in Soul Reaver, which was what madethe game great for me.

indeliblehybrid
25th May 2006, 20:18
i got the new play magazine and it has a story on tombraider legend, and in it they talk to CD and they ask about soul reaver. there answer is they are gonna continue legacy of kain put it was put on hold because of TR Legend ., and quote :you havent seen the last of kain and raziel" =)

Smoke_Z
25th May 2006, 22:30
i got the new play magazine and it has a story on tombraider legend, and in it they talk to CD and they ask about soul reaver. there answer is they are gonna continue legacy of kain put it was put on hold because of TR Legend ., and quote :you havent seen the last of kain and raziel" =)

Some thought that it might've been that. Still, I wish Chris or another official had said that a year ago, in addition to the restatement now.

FearGhoul
25th May 2006, 22:49
"you haven't seen the last of Kain and Raziel."

I wonder what that could mean. I could only see him coming back with a prequal, or unless Kain sees Raziel in some other time period, back when he was Human or Vampire.

InsaneScorpion331
26th May 2006, 01:36
"you haven't seen the last of Kain and Raziel."

I wonder what that could mean. I could only see him coming back with a prequal, or unless Kain sees Raziel in some other time period, back when he was Human or Vampire.
Mabey the Elder God makes a fake clone of Raziel to combat Kain, that way Raziels sacrafice isnt taking away, and all the Raz fans can have Raziel back in some way, or'll he show up in the past or in a flashback, or they are just stupid and put his name in anyway, :scratch: .

Heresy Dragon
26th May 2006, 11:21
i got the new play magazine and it has a story on tombraider legend, and in it they talk to CD and they ask about soul reaver. there answer is they are gonna continue legacy of kain put it was put on hold because of TR Legend ., and quote :you havent seen the last of kain and raziel" =)
Hello ! Can you scan the interview for us, please ? :D

legacyofraziel
28th May 2006, 17:46
Just to let you all know...
There is another LOK game in the works.
Nothing official has been announced about it yet.
~Chris

i was realy begining to doubt any chance of that happening, realy great news.

but realy, people, no offence but in the last game like in all the games, the true base to everything.. and mostly my reason for keeping playing all of the games even through realy anoying parts and reading everithing i could have missed, was the story, done detialed and swipping more then any game or movie i have seen.
yet.. the rest seem to go sloppy... blood omen 2 seemed to show investment in the graphics and all, every chacters faces are interactive and for its time it can surpass defiance in many graphical issues.
defiance other then the other chacter are hardly invested with no interactive faces for a time every game about had that.. its just very low for its time of release...
also defiance intro was trully sloppy.. using same movies from all the games before it... making to a new game if will be done, maybe doing some short but not too much intro to put some stuff togther so new players may go right to it, since the new game should start from about bloodomens time u should be able to find a way to put it together P:

if they are looking right now to get more fans for it, in our time the thing the brings people the most, is the graphics (personaly i would realy love to see them in high detailed models P: all games now looks great, it should follow)

my advice is to dump the dmc system and all its idea.. back to third person... try taking ideas from prince of persia and other games that might feet...
i truly think going to rpg in this game will not work or will get more.. todays base is action.. i just cant imagine it rpg like bloodomen and still looking good P:


dont worry, when il get rich il bring money to the work of this game o:
aha

exmachinad
6th Jun 2006, 21:30
i truly think going to rpg in this game will not work or will get more.. todays base is action.. i just cant imagine it rpg like bloodomen and still looking good P:

Yeah, tell this to the thousands of people buying and loving Elder Scrolls : Oblivion. A great game can be BOTH action AND rpg, and I really think this is the way LoK series should strive for.

I mean, not playing like Oblivion, of course, it was just an example, but more like Blood Omen 1 and Soul Reaver 1, with some more rpg touches. The doom of this series was the dumbing down of the great elements and non linearity it once had. And a new LOK could also play a bit like TR Legend, Crystal Dinamycs did a great job with that game.

Binky24
8th Jun 2006, 16:59
but more like Blood Omen 1 and Soul Reaver 1, with some more rpg touches.
What rpg touches?

FearGhoul
8th Jun 2006, 19:03
I would love another Soul Reaver type game. I loved the huge Nosgoth with secrets everywhere, the way enemies couldn't just be beaten to death (well, except Spectral Realm ones, but even they could come back if you were distracted for too long), the creepy music, the nightmarish enemies, the boss fights that were more puzzles than fights, the dark and depressing world...
I wish someone would make another game with that same sort of feeling to it.

exmachinad
10th Jun 2006, 19:20
What rpg touches?

Yeah, it was pretty vague. But thinking about it, I want to feel in a living world, with people, with more things to do and secrets to discover than just the ones tied to to main plot of the game, like it was, to an extent, done in BO1 and SR 1. But I want more.

Why would I care for Nosgoth if it is a kind of empty world full of enemies? If I were Kain, I would just let the world consume itself... :D

dumah's wraith
10th Jun 2006, 19:20
I would love another Soul Reaver type game. I loved the huge Nosgoth with secrets everywhere, the way enemies couldn't just be beaten to death (well, except Spectral Realm ones, but even they could come back if you were distracted for too long), the creepy music, the nightmarish enemies, the boss fights that were more puzzles than fights, the dark and depressing world...
I wish someone would make another game with that same sort of feeling to it.
Too true.

dumah's wraith
10th Jun 2006, 19:26
Mabey the Elder God makes a fake clone of Raziel to combat Kain, that way Raziels sacrafice isnt taking away, and all the Raz fans can have Raziel back in some way, or'll he show up in the past or in a flashback, or they are just stupid and put his name in anyway, :scratch: .
That's in my fanfic[the Raziel clone]. I really hope Raziel doesn't come back, It'd make the sacrifice totally worthless.

GoddessMillenia
14th Oct 2006, 18:44
i got the new play magazine and it has a story on tombraider legend, and in it they talk to CD and they ask about soul reaver. there answer is they are gonna continue legacy of kain put it was put on hold because of TR Legend ., and quote :you havent seen the last of kain and raziel" =)

OH My God I hope that Raziel returns and that he and Kain work together to restore Nosgoth. Thanks for bringing me hope :D ;) :p

aquarius_varun
15th Oct 2006, 08:05
I would ask CD for one thing if they make another LOK.

PLEASE

PLEASE

PLEASE

Keep the telekinesis . I love it . I have finished defiance 4 times till now. 2 times using cheats...but rest of the 2 start to finish No cheats or anything.

I love the game till now just becos of how much fun it is to masaccre enemies in unique fashions. Throw soldier on a statue to see it break and make him plummet off the bridge as my FF logitech cordless 2 vibrates in response.....hmmmm....that was wicked.

Please keep telekinesis...maybe expand it. make all objects usable and destructable.. add more destructable environments. Okay...lifting objects themselves and hurtling them maybe a little tad difficult to program...so just keep it as we can lift and throw enemies and characters only. Just expand the environment with more possibilities.

IMO..that is the replayability factor in LOK. Only defiance is replayable considering the originality and fun with TK.

legacyofraziel
15th Oct 2006, 11:04
the tk was used in the riddles in a hardly fun way..
as long as they use it more creative rather then use it to click that round symbols or making that objects collapse and make a random somewhat wierd pass to continue through...
i liked soul reaver 2 ם: