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Protector_Malek
6th Feb 2004, 22:56
I was thinking.... the last legacy of kain game.... I think it should end in the Soul Reaver 1 era, don't you agree?
I'd like to think that Kain will finally accept the sacrifice... and restore Nosgoth.... (with vampire guardians or whatever the ending is)...... in the Soul reaver 1 era... because that is his true and original time era... where he belongs.
But, there's still the issue of the Soul Reaver.... it has to end up somehow in avernus cathedral... in the time period before BO1... ar at least during BO1...

Iceburg
6th Feb 2004, 23:33
Kain doesn't have to kill himself anymore, He's been purified by the spirit reaver

Woetothecongoured
6th Feb 2004, 23:45
yeah and the pillars was once said they where tied to the health of the land, now they are just a padlock, who is to say he is fully restored?

Raz
6th Feb 2004, 23:51
The Pillars of Nosgoth are tied to the health of the land.

Think of each element that the Pillars of Nosgoth represent as an energy source, similar to a battery. Each pillar is tied to the element it represents and, when used in combination with the other pillars, it creates a magical lock. :p

That's my theory, anyway... :)

Woetothecongoured
7th Feb 2004, 00:04
okay first kain threw raziel in the abyss off jealousy(which was originally intendid in the soul reaver 1 game at first, also kain being the true enemy), now he threw him in off what he saw in prophesy, hmmmmmmm, they keep changing it up, i can give more:)

Protector_Malek
7th Feb 2004, 01:00
Originally posted by Woetothecongoured
okay first kain threw raziel in the abyss off jealousy(which was originally intendid in the soul reaver 1 game at first, also kain being the true enemy)
you are wrong. It APPEARS to be done out of jelousy.... but... remember when Raziel first returned to the pillars? kain was waiting... he knew raziel would come back...
And when Kain hits Raziel and the Soul Reaver is destroyed, Kain says "The blade is vanquished. So it unfolds... and we are a step closer to our destinies"
And then Raziel says: "I swore I saw a glint of satisfaction in Kain’s eye when the Soul Reaver was destroyed. I did not understand the game that Kain was playing"
And then, at the end, there's this dialog:
"Raziel:
Did it trouble you when you ordered me into the abyss?

Kain:
No - I had faith in you. In your ability to hate. In your self-righteous indignation
"

Raz
7th Feb 2004, 01:27
I know that originally Kain did throw Raziel into the Abyss on a jealous whim, though that has now changed and the story has been changed in such a way that it has no influence on the story.

Yes, Kain was supposed to have thrown Raziel into the Abyss because he was jealous, but that's what was intended, not what happened .

If Kain stated that he threw Raziel into the Abyss because he was jealous, and then started ranting about prophecies, then I'd agree that the story'd been blatantly altered, but there was not sufficient material in Soul Reaver to suggest he threw Raziel into the Abyss due to jealousy.

Sorry, but the LoK team covered their backs with regards to that one... :p

Dogfight
7th Feb 2004, 02:04
Something to take notice of in the introduction of Soul Reaver 1, when Dumah and Turel are about to throw Raziel into the Abyss, Kain is turned away from them, it seems he is disgusted with the whole affair, not really wanting to give the order to have Raziel thrown in.

Then when Turel turns to look at Kain for the order, Kain's expression on his face gives an indication of hesitation. Kain doesn't give the order to throw Raziel into the Abyss outright, he lingers in his decision, as if he is thinking it over.

Protector_Malek
7th Feb 2004, 03:32
hello?
anyone noticed this dialogue... again?
Raziel:
Did it trouble you when you ordered me into the abyss?

Kain:
No - I had faith in you. In your ability to hate. In your self-righteous indignation


That demonstrates that Kain knew that Raziel would come back...
PS: could we please come back to the original thread?

Dogfight
7th Feb 2004, 04:06
I have the feeling that the older Kain will go back to his own time in Soul Reaver 1, but he will also use the Chronoplast Chamber to go to different eras of Nosgoth's history. I wouldn't be surprised if this became an integral gameplay element.

I'm unsure about Kain sacrificing himself to heal the Pillars, I'm not sure that Kain dying would heal the Pillars at all, perhaps Kain can find another way to heal them.

Woetothecongoured
7th Feb 2004, 07:42
i know kain knew that he was coming back, my POINT is, the team intendid it to be out of jealousy and then Raziel would of killed kain and the rest of the vampires, balance restored, nosgoth saved. BUT THEY CHANGED IT! So whose to say they wont change about kain being fully healed, they can say that he was partially healed, you just cant go by Raziels line saying the scion of balance is healed, yeah could of been partially healed, you never know, im not stating this as a fact PM.

Kainster
7th Feb 2004, 09:44
Woetotheconquered is correct. Kain was originally supposed to die in Soul Reaver and threw Raz in the abyss out of jealousy. However changes were made during either production or post production to expand the story.

As for Kain being healed, that was pretty much the whole point of Defiance I think. To bring up the taint brought upon the guardians by Nuprator would just be beating a dead horse. Most likely the new game will ties up the remaining loose ends (certain questions we all have) and restoring the pillars (most likely to vampire guardianship). Anything else would be overkill.

Protector_Malek
7th Feb 2004, 11:26
oh, now I understand what you were saying. Of course, The original SR1 plot had a much confrontational plot and ending, no second intentions.


Originally posted by Dogfight
I have the feeling that the older Kain will go back to his own time in Soul Reaver 1, but he will also use the Chronoplast Chamber to go to different eras of Nosgoth's history. I wouldn't be surprised if this became an integral gameplay element.

YES! It would be great... to see SR1's Nosgoth finally restored and healed.
I still think that kain dying would be an excellent ending.... it is a definitive closure... (I hate it when people keep saying that raziel should come back in the next game... that is so childlish...why can't they accept death? well, not technically "death", but the fulfilling of a destiny?). Kain is escentially a ruler, an arrogant being... it would be weird if Nosgoth is restored... and he end up ruling it??? it doesn't add up.... or getting married and having kids? Or doing nothing?.... I think he's destiny is to die.. sacrifice himself to nosgoth... maybe not by restoring the balance pillar....but by fighting to save nosgoth.

bish
7th Feb 2004, 13:47
i think you are right protector_malek, kain was at first an arrogant leader.

but, in light of the fact that he knows the vampires are the beings who truly should serve the pillars i don't think that he is so arrgoant anymore. more trying to sort things out.

if or when it comes along and the pillars are healed of all corruption, the guardians (including kain, if he is still alive) cannot serve them arrogantly that would lead to them being corrupt again.

bish

Protector_Malek
7th Feb 2004, 21:27
mmm I don't know

Dogfight
7th Feb 2004, 22:48
You know something we really haven't considered is how Nupraptor's madness which tainted Kain's soul really affected him, it could very well be the reason for much of his dark deeds.