View Full Version : European Defiance now in stores!!

6th Feb 2004, 19:29
Hey everyone,
I am pretty sure most European fans already know that Legacy of Kain: Defiance was released today! This includes Xbox, PS2 , and PC versions in English, French, Italian, German, and Spanish. I'd love to hear what you think of the game and if you are able to find it in your area!

6th Feb 2004, 20:37
I'm Italian, the game is GREAT, but the voice actors are changed and suck!!!

6th Feb 2004, 22:34
hey chris

the game is great! i've been hitting it hard since i got it. i can proudly say i went to my local game shop - and i am ill at the minute, in the rain and cold (lol) and was the first person in there

dedicated ;)

it was in there yesterday and i was like "sell it to me" and they wouldn't - i have a really bad cold and i didnt want to have to go out again, but i did - anything for Lord Kain

7th Feb 2004, 02:21
I bought the game on Thursday and completed the game at 01.35 a.m on a Saturday morning. The game really is brilliant. Beautiful graphics, excellent story line. I really enjoyed the game especially the ending. It is definately the best of the Legacy of Kain series.

Also the camera is ok but could have been better. I had no problem. I wouldn't mind the same but improved camera on the next sequel to Legacy of Kain.

Yet I believe that another sequel is very likely or will be made but, us the true fans of Legacy of Kain will be looking forward to see another LEGACY OF KAIN game officially announced.

Legacy of Kain - Defiance 2 or Legacy of Kain - Blood Omen 3 I'd love to see The Legacy of Kain series continue. I am sure thousands of Legacy of Kain fans want the same thing.

Also, I must say Thank you very much Crystal Dynamics for creating this game for us, The Legacy of Kain fans.

~Chris, was your picture on the Bonus Materials as well, where the pictures of the Test Team are? Just Curious :)

7th Feb 2004, 05:13

i managed to get my copy on wednesday! i've spoke about this game on about 3 different topics now, so i will cut it short this time.

i love the game


chris - i never realised your handle was butterfly lord. name in the credits, nice.

7th Feb 2004, 07:28
Now im a verry happy bunny!
the waiting is now over.:D
Till the next game is anounced that is:cool:

7th Feb 2004, 12:08
Does the PAL version have any bug/ camera fixes or anything different to the USA version? I already have the USA version so unless there's any noticable improvements (like a PS2 widescreen mode for example) I'm gonna wait till the price falls to buy the UK version as well. Course a follow me cam would make me happily shell out full price again! (and yes I know that would never happen :()

8th Feb 2004, 20:20
The game's excelent, bought it on friday, the camera angles are abit wierd. But you get used to them. I love the Legacy of Kain series so much, but i can't seem to find Blood Omen anywhere, grrrr

8th Feb 2004, 21:13
I may want to ask a question, o Butterfly Lord...
I'm beginning to wonder about the position of France in the world, as I was actually able to buy the PC version of the game Friday, the 30th of January, and thus finished it... the day before it came out in Europe ? Where did I lose the trail ? And I seem to remember being jealous of console users that could buy it the week before. Some explanation would be appreciated, before I start thinking I'm some kind of Time Streamer, thanks :)

Kain's Right-Hand Man
8th Feb 2004, 22:17
Chris,the game is blowing me away!Who would think the legacy could get better but Crystal Dynamics have really gone all the way this time!I especially liked The fight between Raziel and Kain and how you get to experience it from two perspectives,that was a great idea! :)

8th Feb 2004, 23:27
jus' like to say ITS FANTASTIC.

everythin' i wanted in a legacy of kain game...cept not as enough strung up prisoners for my liking, but thats my only complaint.

i picked it up on the 5th, and had it finished on the 6th.


9th Feb 2004, 07:41
He's finally here! I've finished the game already but I certainly hope this was not the last we have seen of the Legacy of Kain series.

9th Feb 2004, 11:37
The ending was amazing. I'd read the spoilers, but I had to see it for myself.

I liked the scene right before you face the Elder where Kain is yelling at him and hacking away at his tenticals and the bit where Raziel figures out what he has to do.

Heresy Dragon
9th Feb 2004, 13:59
It's a great game. Even if there are some bugs that could have been easily avoided (especially with the camera angles), I really enjoyed playing LoK Defiance. I hope there will be 6th game ! :D
The story is incredible !!

The first day it was released in France, all the copies were sold with a surprising speed ! I have been lucky, because I bought the very last copy of my videogame shop, and it was only 4 PM on the 23rd January !:eek:

French voice acting is really, really great ! I've never heard such french dubbing in videogames ! The voice actors were as serious as if they were working on a movie !

Just one thing is missing, compared to the US version : the bonus materials. Ok, 3d renders and drawings of characters and places are great, but I've heard on this forum that US version has more bonuses...:confused:
Also, it would have been great to put a new timeline in the bonus materials, with the events of Blood Omen 2 and Defiance added...Like in the bonus materials of SR2...

Also, something strange : the Dark Chronicles are not complete ! Some important videos are missing, like : the paintings in Avernus Catacombs, where Raziel discovers the suicide of the winged vampires, and when the Elder God tells Raziel that he is a Hylden. And, above all, when Raziel goes for the first time in the Spirit Forge, and discovers the last painting with the Scion of Balance ! Why were those videos cut ? :confused:
Is it an "exclusivity" to the european version ?

Anyway, LoK Defiance is a great game ! Congratulations to CD !

10th Feb 2004, 12:32
The game is extemely great, of course. We would not expect anything less from the LoK series =D
I thought there were a bit too few events in the middle, but apart from that, everything was top-notch. And it's just so damn beautiful :eek:

10th Feb 2004, 14:38
First of all the game was great!!;)

i had not any problems with gameplay and the camera.

only one thing that raziel he cannot hold enemie into the midair
untill HE kill his brother Turel than you can!

i hope there will be a code for raziel that he can lift enemie into the midair and than pull him away!!

and sorry about my languaga my english its a little bad!!;)
a bitter taste of that terrible illussion: HOPE

Kain's Right-Hand Man
10th Feb 2004, 17:37
Chris,although I have no problems with the game,I do have some suggestions for the next game if there is one;you should be able to revisit chapters once you have finished the game,also there should be better bonus items(not that I did't like what we had,but SR2 had much more to offer).

10th Feb 2004, 17:54
hey chris i got defiance the day it came out an it was brilliant,excellent infact what can i say. i just hope theres another one to come plus i will agree with (Kain's Right-Hand Man) there could of bein more extras or even let you play through the game again with all the powers that they get but hey id still play it again. coz i would never get bored of it so ithere another game in the works i hope there is thanx

Blue Winged Fellow
10th Feb 2004, 18:57
Hi Chris.
First of all I want to thanks CD for creating what I think are the BEST games EVER (LOK I mean). I'm still enjoying the game, taking my time to finish it and enjoying the very detailed world of Nosgoth that you spent soo much time creating for us. Just magnificent.

I will also say that I loved the camera. Even with the small problems it had, I think it works PERFECTLY for this kind of epic game, and it was a great move. However, improvements on the camera will always be welcome, like collission detection and what not, but I'll leave the technical details to you guys. All you need to know about improvements required can be found in the forum, am sure you know it already ;)

A couple of suggestions for the next game (PLEASE MAKE IT HAPPEN!): One thing that I would have LOVED to see in the LOK environment is better interaction with the environment (See POP to understand what I mean) like fabrics moving when the characters move through them. I don't know how difficult this may be, but it sure makes the game feel less like a game, and more like an interactive movie, which I think was the idea of the camera change.

The other thing I loved was the quick witted small dialog between Kain and the Sarafans in that first fight of Kain in the Sarafan Stronghold, just after he finds the first enhancement ("Surrender fiend...."), and I missed it in all the other "compulsory" fights. Include a few more of those next time.

Now for the complains: I think the game needed a few more hours of game testing before release, or perharps better quality in the testing. I don't want to put your game testers down, but finding a bug in the game in the first 5 mins of game play got me really scared. Good thing that I have been hit by it only twice so far.

Also, even though I loved the fights, I found that the combos where at times hard to use. I don't see the reason to include an extra difficulty using the combos when there's an unused button in the controller (In the PS2, the L2 Button was used only as ornament, as far as I can tell)

I think having more "elemental reavers" could have given more chance for more challenging puzzles. I understand the idea behind having all the elemental shrines be similar, but I think more different puzzles would have been great.

Finally, I think more secret areas, or optional side quests made BO1 and SR1 excellent replayable games. Perharps the next one will include some of these? I sincerely prefer that to the "bonus materials".

All in all, these are minor complains. I seriously love the game, and I also think it is the best LOK game so far.

Oh! One more thing... Keep the Dark Chronicle like the one in this game, but give the option to play all cutscenes without having to load the game every time... It gets annoying after playing 3 or 4... And also a text version with absolutely all the dialogs throughout the game, since I noticed some are missing from the chronicle.

Sorry for the length! I just got inspired!:D

11th Feb 2004, 14:55
PC Zone Magazine UK have rated Legacy of Kain - Defiance (PC) 79%.

They're claiming that, you can get easily lost in the game. Puzzles are too repetitive. You end up coming to same places at least 10 times. Also they're saying the game seems to be rushed.

I do not personally agree with them at most of the points.

Kain's Right-Hand Man
11th Feb 2004, 17:23
They're claiming that, you can get easily lost in the game. Puzzles are too repetitive. You end up coming to same places at least 10 times. Also they're saying the game seems to be rushed. I don't believe that!Sure,sometimes you do get lost but any legacy of kain fan expects that and can usually find their way after a couple of minutes.I'll admit the puzzles are a little repetitive but its a small price to pay!Lastly,you don't revisit locations without there being meaning and the quality of the game suggests that the game took years to complete.What geek wrote that review?Defiance deserves more than that! :mad:

11th Feb 2004, 18:37
Originally posted by VoRaDoR
PC Zone Magazine UK have rated Legacy of Kain - Defiance (PC) 79%.

They're claiming that, you can get easily lost in the game. Puzzles are too repetitive. You end up coming to same places at least 10 times. Also they're saying the game seems to be rushed.

I do not personally agree with them at most of the points.

I agree with the same places thing personally, the forges all do look more or less identical and each doesn't really have anything to make it stand out apart from it's individual mural sequences.

11th Feb 2004, 21:47
When I read the whole review in the magazine honestly there are points which I personally disagree with the reviever.

The magazine also mentions about Tomb Raider changed developers. Hopefully Crystal Dynamics will make the new Tomb Raider game more interesting.

So far Eidos Interactive has most of my Favorite games. These are:

1. Deus Ex 1 and 2
2. Legacy of Kain Series
3. Hitman 1 and 2. (3 soon)

I'll will always buy the sequel to these three games but according to my gameplay experience on the past Tomb Raider games Not a new TOMB RAIDER game personally :confused:

The latest installment of Tomb Raider, which is the Tomb Raider - Angel of Darkness Scored 68 % (PC) Played it and didn't like it at all.

I believe Crystal Dynamics is very good at Legacy of Kain games. They should do what they do best. The LEGACY OF KAIN Games :rolleyes:

Kain's Right-Hand Man
11th Feb 2004, 21:59
So Chris how big are you down at Crystal Dynamics?Give yourself a rating from 1 to 10.

10-Hub of the Wheel

1-Spare Tire

12th Feb 2004, 05:47
Well got it played it, finished it. And all I can is sexy Chris this game is very sexy indeed.

13th Feb 2004, 01:54
Now that I've played through it again, I'd like to return with additional comments.
First of all, you still can't find this game for the PS2 in Sweden. I don't know about the other platforms, since I don't care for them, but it's strange nonetheless. I ordered it from UK, myself, which I'm very happy to have done (plus it was much cheaper)

Once again, I must comment on the game being amazingly beautiful. I love pretty much every area in the game (except perhaps the forges). It all looks so well-designed. Especially Voardor's mansion, which is truly a wonder. I love it. Plus, Kain is damn cool. I just had to point that out =)
Battle is very fun, but very easy. Of course, I never expected a challenge, but still. It is quite satisfying to simply try and make as fanciful combos as possible though. I love Kains TK-ability! It makes for some very fun and cool-looking battles. Nothing better than a 20-hit combo ending with a reckless TK to the side, right onto a spike. Ouch!

The camera is a big issue around here of course, but I loved the change. It very rarely got in the way of fights, and anyway, as I said, the game is easy enough that it doesn't matter if it does. I did become annoyed because of it at a few locations, but overall I really like the look. Just the way it shows off Vorador's mansion when you first enter the courtyard is marvelous.

The most important thing to do better at in the next game: Sound effects!
This has been a plague of the LoK series for a long time, and really needs to be adressed. Combat sound effects should really make you feel that you're hitting the enemy. When landing the last hit on bosses (the guardians), don't just make them fade away. At least give us some meaty sound to really make the statement that you won. When a door or wall collapses, never, ever leave out the sound effect accompanying it. It makes the scene seem stupid and not very well thought out.
The worst case of them all though, is when Raziel tears the soul from an opponents body. Not a single sound effect of him either tearing the soul free or even of him devouring it (which is plain stupid since that effect is in the game). The same goes for when he tears free of the corpse he uses to enter the material realm. More prominent sounds are needed to make that scene work.

This is almost my only real complaint about this game. I truly hope it will be properly adressed in the next game.

Apart from all this, I wouldn't say no to the game being longer of course, but that's just because it's soo good. Make it as long as you can and still keep it interesting. That's the most important thing.

13th Feb 2004, 07:49
I played Defiance for the first time last night, and finished the first two chapters. I was originally worried :eek: because I had read so many posts about how lousy the camera was, and I was pleasently surprised to have my fears about the camera put to rest in the first 10 seconds! :D

Defiance is everything I hoped for and more. I love all of it and I can't wait for school to end so I can get back to my PS2:D CD has done an excellent job. My congrats to all who worked on this project from the mighty Amy Hennig down to the lowliest peon on the team. Very well done indeed, and I eagerly look forward to the end of this one and the next chapter in the LoK series! :D:D

King Otmar
16th Feb 2004, 14:18
I found a bug. SOS

Thares this part where I fell through a wall.

If i play it again, perhaps It wont be there.

I know finding bugs is a bit crap, and they are the worst things in games, but its not that much of a bug so I guess its no worries

How much went into defiance. in $ or £? most games take about two yrs, and a million pounds. I just wondered.

Blue Winged Fellow
16th Feb 2004, 14:49
King Otmar, I don't mean to be noisy about it, but I think "Vae Victus" means "Suffering to the conquered", not the other way around. ;)

As for how much went into defiance, maybe Chris could answer, but I'm sure in terms of time, it was longer than 2 years (if you include pre-production, of course, from sketches, scrips drafts, design, and all). I think that is the reason the story is so appealing, since there is a lot of dedication in that side of the production.

I'm not implying that the actual game development has any less dedication, but like you say, most games take 2 years to go from an idea to an actual product, and in my opinion, few get the quality in story we do with the LOK series.

Edit: terrible spelling mistake!

Kain's Right-Hand Man
16th Feb 2004, 21:46
Actually Vae Victus means "Woe to the conquered"(check the dark chronicle where Raziel takes Kain's heart

18th Feb 2004, 00:10
This is my first post, and I hate it to be a bad one, so I'm going to have to go for balance, as overall the game owns everything I've played before, regardless of characters or story, LoK Defiance presides over them all.

But as for glitches. Well! I've had a really hard time with them. Firstly I melted through a solid wall I was trying to climb on Raziels way to The Pillars, the one which provides access to the Fire Forge. I had to restart the level, but that wasn't the worst.

On Voradors Mansion, I was able to get through the broken window without shifting to spectral, and I got the Blood Drinker first, as opposed to the Heart seeker. As I dropped down, all the doors were shut off with shutters, statues came alive and many beasts came from the ground. I beat them, but the shutters remained. Surprisingly, two of them were only there in looks and I could get through the doors behind them, which was strange enough. Then I proceeded to get the Heart Seeker, but found myself unable to get back into the mansion to the fountain room. I had no prior saved games, and so had to start again from scratch. MUCH annoyance.

Then, at the Earth forge, I was flying over to light the lamps on the far side in the spirit realm, and I glided straight through a solid door, into the room behind, which I spent twenty minutes trying to find my way out of being as the camera angle wouldn't change. So yes, That was without doubt the most dissapointing of the games problems, but also its only true one. Which is good.

Kain is definitely my favourite of the two, the squelching slash his sword made was better than Raziels screaming blade, and having advanced TK in the early stages added endless fun. The whole combat system is amazing, and I personally experienced no problems with the camera. I felt that though the combat system didn't differ for each character, the way the combat reflected the characters natures was excellent. For instance Raziels Shaolin-lik finish to his basic ground combo, and Kains "Cadaverous Laceration" being much more gory and less flashy than Raziels Tempest. Also, the kool "finishing moves" for Kain and Raziel were great.

In terms of the story, I was totally blown away. The way in which not only the characters, but the players witnessing it all interpret the prophesy in different ways. A friend and I reviewed the Dark Chronical to discover we both had very different ideas as to what its meaning was, even after the conclusion and epilogue. For instance, when Kain says "They prophesied not one, but two possible outcomes"... gotta get off the net. So I'll post more later. But yes, great game!


Blue Winged Fellow
18th Feb 2004, 14:39
Originally posted by Kain's Right-Hand Man
Actually Vae Victus means "Woe to the conquered"(check the dark chronicle where Raziel takes Kain's heart
Don't wanna get picky, but the Greenwich English dictionary says:
Woe: Grief, misery, affliction


Kain does actually say what vae victus means in the intro of BO, just before his resurrection (you know, the bit where he's standing between two posts with a big sword stuck through him).

"Vae victus, suffering to the conquered. Ironic that now I was the one suffering. Not anything as pedestrain as physical pain. Rather the cruel jab of impotent anger...."

Considering that I never studied Latin and English is not my first language, nor my second, I think my "Suffering" approximation was quite good! The idea was the same anyway... ;)

19th Feb 2004, 10:01
I couldent wait for the European version i had to order mine from the US :)

19th Feb 2004, 13:01
I've Defiance and i finally try the game.....it's very fantastic, especially graphics and sounds....the voices are changed but they're the same very interesting! I'm at the level of Vorador and i can't go next....

King Otmar
19th Feb 2004, 13:12
Well Kain said Suffering to the conqured in BO1 so Ill keep it that way. SOS to all who care.

As for the "conqured to the suffering". Its kinda a simple mistake to make. So I will change it soon.

20th Feb 2004, 01:26
Vae Victus: to the Vitor goes the spoils.

The game was great, Finished it in 9 hours with all secrets found, but it was long enough, the end should have left a few more qustions, also I didnt like Mortainius in this verson, it would have been better if the EG had of possesed him rather than the hyldin, as when I first played soul reaver I tought that the EG was a demi mortainius after kain had killed him in BO. The camera was great, it ticks me off that a load of people are complaining, this is the camera I want to see in the next game and it was much better than the horrible 8 year old PC style camera that was in BO2(I want to see my character in action like in a japanese game.)

Shame the outtakes were cut out.

van_HellSing PL
20th Feb 2004, 07:27
Vae Victus: to the Vitor goes the spoils. Totally wrong.

20th Feb 2004, 22:48
Sorry, I wasnt trying to explain the meaning as we all know it means 'woe to the vanquished'. I was letting you all know the rest of the speech, as soldiers in olden days would say before raiding villages.

I mistyped the : it should have been a comma.;)

22nd Feb 2004, 23:41
The PC Gamer magazine UK rated Legacy of Kain - Defiance PC version 52% :confused: Not gonna mention the reviewers name. The camera was the main problem according to his gameplay experience.

Oh well, in my personal opinion I like the new Camera system in Defiance but it could have been better. Oh well in the end it's an individual who played and reviewed the game. 79% PC Zone review sounds reasonable. I do not believe Defiance is a 52 % game. It is way better than that.

King Otmar
23rd Feb 2004, 13:10
Well sorry about that, Im just using it as my sig.


25th Feb 2004, 23:49
I was playing Legacy of Kain - Defiance again today on my PC and noticed something which dont seem to be right!

I came to Vorador's Mansion. I solved two out of three puzzles at Vorador's Mansion and the portal at the pool became available.

I didn't solve the puzzle at the library where there is a door Raziel uses to leave the Mansion to Avernus Cathedral and when returns speaks to Moebius.

I hope you got what I'm trying to say. I haven't a clue what this is a bug or a programming error.

Try it! Do not solve the puzzle at the library. The library is where you meet Vorador and leave the Mansion. See it for yourselves friends.

26th Feb 2004, 18:07
Originally posted by VoRaDoR
I was playing Legacy of Kain - Defiance again today on my PC and noticed something which dont seem to be right!

I came to Vorador's Mansion. I solved two out of three puzzles at Vorador's Mansion and the portal at the pool became available.

I didn't solve the puzzle at the library where there is a door Raziel uses to leave the Mansion to Avernus Cathedral and when returns speaks to Moebius.

I hope you got what I'm trying to say. I haven't a clue what this is a bug or a programming error.

Try it! Do not solve the puzzle at the library. The library is where you meet Vorador and leave the Mansion. See it for yourselves friends.

Same here I only solved 2 of the puzzles and the pool portal appeared!!
I didnt even find the library until I spoke with Vorador

27th Feb 2004, 13:03
Must be a PC thing because the portal never became available to me untill I solved all 3 puzzles and I have the PS2 version.


5th Mar 2004, 19:57
me to!!! i have the pl2 version and have not found any bug !!!

had i condemned raziel to this nightmare when i cast him into the Abyss?.? -KAIN-
I am not your enemy,not your destroyer, i am as before , your right hand your sword. -RAZIEL-

Du ' Hab
12th Mar 2004, 15:00
I just finished this FANTASTIC game and it surprised me not being too short. Or maybe it's just the changing of the characters. Few disappointments though: the camera was a big disappointment, but after a few hours of playing you could get hang of it. Then, I thought you could choose which one you play, Kain or Raziel, instead of having them change automatically. This too wasn't so big disappointment after all...it might just be the thing that made the game last. But then, since I own the european version I was SO SAD when i noticed that there were no outtakes, no voice sessions and no music....why? Why did they do this?

12th Mar 2004, 16:19
You can download the outakes Du' Hab. There is a thread at the top of this forum about it.



Du ' Hab
12th Mar 2004, 22:21
I know Jeffrey, but it feels like a waste of a precious PS2 DVD, for I think there would be free space for few voice sessions. Thanks for the advice anyway :)

12th Mar 2004, 22:41
Well, I felt the same way. But being able to download them pleased me a bit. :)


13th Mar 2004, 00:33
The game storyline is great but the controls and the camera position just ruined it. it could have been better. (pc version)

21st Mar 2004, 05:05
Hey i didn't know Chris work for Crystal Dynamics. Good job C.D!!! Hey i was wondering, do you guys have any position opening? Such as programmer, but i admire the story writing part.

Bruce Lee