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Mac Daddy
3rd Feb 2004, 17:06
Hey everyone, it's me again. I have a few questions that I could use some help in answering.

1. There is a theory that raziel has become a part of kain when he pressed his hand on kains chest while the sword was in his (chest). Didn't anyone notice how his soul "flowed" in AND out from kains right arm? (the camera turns so you can see it) I like the idea that the portions of Kains soul were returned but why would raziels join with Kains, I mean it has to return to his body at some point in order to start the whole process over again, right?

I'm not going to ask about the timeline since everyone seems to have different ideas(and i like my own anyway) but there is something else about time changing I would like to ask.

2. If two incarnations of the blade meet in time and space, it creates a rift, the necessary pull on reality to change a timeline. If this is so, then is the reason that raziel has *ahem* had choice because the blade was his own soul, making him the other incarnation? And now that Kain has a sword with two incarnations of raziels soul in it does he have choice, being the guiding will behind the blades (raziels) actions?
I guess thats all for now. If I think of anything else you'll see it here. Thanks ahead of time for any help.

HolyMoses
3rd Feb 2004, 17:40
You know, I too like the idea of Raziel becoming one with Kain. After all, he was made a vampire because he took in a part of Kain's soul.

Raziel then took in the souls of his bretheren, (the rest of Kain), and then after becoming uncorrupted he ,and all the souls of his bretheren, rejoined with Kain and what was set asunder is now whole.

*brain explodes*

Mac Daddy
5th Feb 2004, 00:13
*mine too*

so could I ask about the soul flowing out of kains arm in that scene? that was really the part that put me off of that theory.

Kainster
5th Feb 2004, 00:14
You know what? Now that this subject has been brought up, perhaps its BECAUSE Raziel has a portion of Kains soul that he is indestructible, hence returning from the Abyss. Maybe something to do with Kain being the Scion of Balance as well which extends to Raz and the other lieutenants? Remember that Dumah's soul was hovering around his body in SR1 and returned as soon as the stake was pulled out. Maybe if the other lieutenants died prematurely they would have had the same existence as Raziel. Its really interesting you guys say that the portions of Kains soul are returned to him. If this were true, then it explains Raziels existence and further amplifies the significance of his role.

This would also better explain how Raziel is both figures in the murals depicting the battle between the two heroes in Defiance. Because Raziel is Kains soul, Raziel=Kain, hence both figures are the same person (either Kain or Raziel). Perhaps then the murals depict a sequence of events that take place in Defiance (Raz defeating Kain at Avernus, and Raz being absorbed into the Reaver).

WOW, this sheds light on a whole slew of ideas. Of course this is just another one of those crazy assumptions that might be shot down by the next game.

Mac Daddy
5th Feb 2004, 00:25
thats a pretty good idea, I didn't think of it like that.:) The only thing I can think of that might contradict it is that some of the other vampires souls didn't stray far from their bodies thus becoming the wraiths. So that may have been similar to how Dumah was floating around his corpse.(even though he wasn't a wraith)

After seeing their monster forms it would be uhm, interesting to see them as wraiths, ew.;)

WraithStar
5th Feb 2004, 14:50
I could be remembering wrong, but I thought that when Dumah was chasing Raziel in SR1, he latched on with the wraithen tether to drain Raziel's energy. I thought Dumah was a wraith.

Kainster
5th Feb 2004, 17:25
Well maybe I have the name wrong, but I think its Dumah. I'm talking about the vampire who was impaled with stakes while sitting on his throne. The boss before Kain. In any event, the point is that its possible that Kains soul might be the reason for Raziels transformation in the Abyss.

Dogfight
5th Feb 2004, 20:47
Somethings to add to this discussion, Raziel received the first and richest portion of Kain's gift, the least tainted by Nupraptor's madness, and Melchiah received the last and poorest portion of Kain's gift, the most tainted. Besides this the soul gift is given to call back a creatures' soul from the dead.

There is a connection between Kain and Raziel, besides the soul portion part. Both of them have wielded the Reaver, both of them were Necromantic Vampires, and both of them are part of a grand prophetic destiny inexplicably tied to one another.

“Your fate is trivial, Raziel. It was Kain’s destiny that mattered all along.” - Elder