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View Full Version : [SPOILER] Unbelievably, Indescribably, Absolutely Frustrated



Tsaphel
28th Jan 2004, 06:39
The controls on the PC release are driving me out of my mind. They seemed tolerable (though barely) until now:

I have spent the last two hours in the first level trying to get Kain to hop on rocks across a pool of water. Tapping any of the WSAD keys once either does not move Kain at all or sprints him into the water. Since there is no mouse control (except for the camera), I have to rely upon the hellishly flimsy WSAD controls. It is proving to be an absolute nightmare.

This post is mainly to vent my burning frustration before I lose one more fingernail in the recesses of my keyboard after digging them into it like claws; or before I throw myself into the frigid water outside and see just what is so deadly to Kain.

Do not misunderstand me. I love what little of this game I have been able to experience thus far, just as I have always been impressed by the Legacy of Kain series. But while these rock-jumping scenarios worked well in arcade games, they are Hell when combined with flimsy WSAD controls and a camera that never seems to know what it is doing.

If you are still reading this, you have my apology.

Lär
28th Jan 2004, 07:08
Got 10 bucks?? If so, run down to Best Buy and pickup this gamepad (http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olspage.jsp?id=1061127110515&skuId=5956888&type=product).

I know how you feel about the keyboard controls. Unlike other games in the LoK series, this one is not keyboard friendly at all. I finally got fed up with the keyboard, and started using my old Interact Propad 6 (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/B00000JBUS/103-4407682-5200652?v=glance&s=videogames&n=507846&me=standard&vi=pictures&img=14#more-pictures). Although this pad is old, and doesn't have any "special features", it still proved to be a better control device than the keyboard.

Later, I switched to a Saitek P880 Dual Analog (http://www.saitek.com/uk/prod/p880.htm), and let me tell ya, it improved my game drastically. I bought it at Circuit City for 20 bucks, then got a $10 instant rebate!! This is a helluva lot of gamepad for 10 bucks, and i'm enjoying every single feature it has. :)

Hopefully you can overcome your keyboard control woes, like I did, and enjoy the rest of the game. ;)

Later! :D

blincoln
28th Jan 2004, 07:15
I would recommend a gamepad as well, although I'm not sure why this area is causing you trouble. Just move back a ways, get a running start, and jump before you get to the edge.

Tsaphel
28th Jan 2004, 09:38
I am having such trouble with this area not because I can not jump far enough (that is fairly easy), but because I find myself jumping in a completely wrong direction. And I can not seem to 'move back a bit', or do anything 'a bit', because tapping a key very lightly seems to move Kain five metres in a direction I did not anticipate.

However, I have just discovered that disabling shadows has cleaned-up this behaviour. I should have figured. For some reason, the ATI Radeon 9800 Pro always has trouble rendering shadows without stuttering. I am rather certain it is not my system, which far exceeds the recommended specifications, so I will search about for relevant driver updates. Meanwhile, I will play without shadows.

As for the gamepad -- I will consider it. I have a few old gamepads packed in a box somewhere that would probably either not be compatible or have been eaten by rodents in the cellar. I tend to dislike gamepads, though....

Thank you both for the swift responses. I tried not vent my frustration here, because I honestly do love this game for what it is. But after the seventieth time seeing Kain writhing in the water before bursting into a cloud of bats, I had decided enough was enough. I was convinced that the controls were the problem, but it seems that shadow rendering may have likely been the culprit. Time to load that checkpoint again....

SonneDieNacht
28th Jan 2004, 09:52
Originally posted by Tsaphel
...
before [you] throw [yourself] into the frigid water outside and see just what is so deadly to Kain.

You should note that whether the water temperature is frigid, boiling, or just somewhere in-between is irrelevant to Kain -- although not necessarily irrelevant to you. :D

Also, a cheap gamepad may alleviate your control woe -- and a good gamepad may obviously be better (like $19.99 at Best Buy for the Logitech Dual Action Game Pad, which is also similar to a PS2 pad).

Or, if you're a little "out-there" as am I, you could get an obsolete InterAct Hammerhead FX at an online auction for around $10-$15 (New). :D :D :D

Tsaphel
28th Jan 2004, 10:06
A few control oddities, such as the character making a sudden right-angle turn in mid-jump, still remain... but I finally finished that area. I am glad that there was such an excellent payoff.

Now that I found the primary problem, a new question begs: Has anyone else with a Radeon 9800 Pro, 3GHz processor speed, and 2046 MB RAM (or otherwise similar system) found it necessary to disable shadows? Any suggested solutions?

IamLakota
28th Jan 2004, 10:29
Tsaphel,
My system specs:
Asus P4C800-E Deluxe
P4-2.6C @ 2.78 w/840fsb
Radeon 9800 Pro 128mb
1Gig 4x256 dual channel Geil Golden Dragon pc 3500
Audigy 2ZS w/ Klipsch 7.1's
Lian-Li case w/mods and lots of BloodOmen Red Leds

I have not had a problem with shadows and I have all the settings in game maxed out. And all I used was the good old keyboard/mouse.
I did have to play through that section a dozen times to make it but I believe it was because of the new camera angels in game.
I have finished the game but no no stuttering anywhere.If it makes you feel better took me like 50 trys to make the first jump in the game begging,..LOL

Tsaphel
28th Jan 2004, 10:46
'Stuttering' was not the correct word for me to use, really. But the controls certainly seem to function better with shadows disabled. When I have them enabled, there is a delay in control response that often causes me to topple over ledges.

Yet even now as Raziel I can not, for instance, hold W and D while jumping to jump in that direction. I only have four directions to jump and I can not combine them. This makes such areas very irritating.

van_HellSing PL
28th Jan 2004, 10:51
I have a Radeon 9200SE, and while I do have slowdown problems with shadows in some games (Silent Hill 2 for example), Defiance runs just fine with shadows on!

Tsaphel
28th Jan 2004, 11:15
Hm. And I had no problem at all with Silent Hill 3 (which I assume is what you meant)....

van_HellSing PL
28th Jan 2004, 11:25
Nah, I meant SH2. As for SH3 I only played the demo, and it's the same there.

Tsaphel
28th Jan 2004, 12:51
Hm. It turns out to have not been the shadows that were causing the control delays and loss of framerate. Rather, it seems that I have to Alt+Tab out of, and then back into the game after each loading screen and cutscene. Otherwise, the framerate drops dramatically and other problems appear. Some sort of memory leak?

ziada
28th Jan 2004, 18:01
I dont see why people are complaining so much about the camera angles and PC controls. The game controls were fine and I was using an 8 year old keyboard ( a Packard Bell one from my Pentium 60) throughout the game, even during the mansion and the final boss. People need to look at the horrible game controls and camera angles of other games to truly appreciate how well both things were done in Defiance. And please, dont blame the game for your own lack of gaming skills.

blincoln
28th Jan 2004, 19:40
My system is only about half as powerful as yours, but it runs the game fine. I have a GeForce 4, though, instead of a Radeon.

I would definitely recommend a gamepad with two analogue sticks because that's really how this game was meant to be played.

If you're having trouble with not being able to use more than one key at once, that might be a limitation of your keyboard - I ran into similar problems years ago playing Wing Commander on a friend's PC. It was really frustrating not being able to turn and shoot at the same time.

Tsaphel
29th Jan 2004, 03:40
No, actually, this only applies to jumping. I can run, sneak, and TK aim using as many directional keys as I please, but I can only jump (and glide) in the four basic directions.

AndaPanda
3rd Feb 2004, 02:06
Originally posted by Tsaphel
I am having such trouble with this area not because I can not jump far enough (that is fairly easy), but because I find myself jumping in a completely wrong direction. And I can not seem to 'move back a bit', or do anything 'a bit', because tapping a key very lightly seems to move Kain five metres in a direction I did not anticipate.

I have the PC version of the game as well and I too am using the keyboard... After hours and hours of frustration, I discovered that if you want to "move back a bit" or "do anything a bit", there's a SNEAK key (if you don't already know what that is, you can check in the "controls" menu where you customize your keys), and if you press that along with WASD or the arrow keys, your character moves VERY slowly. I hope this'll help you.:)

EDIT: Sorry for the double post, I don't know why it got posted twice, I only clicked once.. And there's no "delete post" button or I am too blind to see it.

Umah Bloodomen
3rd Feb 2004, 02:57
Originally posted by AndaPanda
EDIT: Sorry for the double post, I don't know why it got posted twice, I only clicked once.. And there's no "delete post" button or I am too blind to see it.

You want to utilize the http://forums.eidosgames.com/images/edit.gif on a post of yours that you wish to delete. When you are redirected to the edit screen, you'll notice a check box near the upper left-hand corner that says Delete? Make sure that you check it off and proceed directly across from it (to the right) and press the Delete Now button. I've gone ahead and deleted your duplicate post for you so this little information session can be used for future reference. :)

Apocrypha Roxy
3rd Feb 2004, 04:17
I'm the echo.

:D

Get a gamepad for yourself. By reading what everyone's linked to concerning gamepad prices, I have no excuse to get one myself (I don't have Defiance on PC, but a gamepad in general is better than nothing).

You'll wonder how you ever played videogames without it.

:)

xarax
3rd Feb 2004, 05:33
I've heard that changing the keyboard mapping WSAD over to using the numeric keypad for movement (i.e., changing from lefthand movement to righthand movement) can help. Reprogram the keys near WSAD for the action, TK, TK-aim, jump attack, etc., and use your left hand for those actions. Use your right hand for movement with the numeric pad.

If all else fails, try a gamepad. If that fails, then get a refund and be sure to send e-mail to chris letting him know why you returned the game.

Gamepads never work well for me, so I can't try it. I was stuck with keyboard and spent 4 hours trying to get Raziel out of the underworld. Never made it, so I returned the game for a full refund.

HolyMoses
3rd Feb 2004, 16:14
Originally posted by Tsaphel
The controls on the PC release are driving me out of my mind. I have to rely upon the hellishly flimsy WSAD controls.

Grovel before the power of Analong Controler. Submit to all game stations.

AndaPanda
3rd Feb 2004, 22:54
Thank you, Umah, for the information. Believe me I have looked for a delete button when I edited my post, and I didn't see it. I guess I'm just blind :o Thank you for deleting it for me. :)

Apocrypha Roxy
4th Feb 2004, 01:00
Ah yes, I forgot about the right-hand/left-hand controls (haven't played PC games in a while, but neglected to remember I just finished a Thief FM).

Don't even remap the keys to the number pad, just the up/down arrows. Much easier. :)

Umah Bloodomen
4th Feb 2004, 03:39
Originally posted by AndaPanda
Thank you, Umah, for the information. Believe me I have looked for a delete button when I edited my post, and I didn't see it. I guess I'm just blind :o Thank you for deleting it for me. :)

No worries, AndaPanda. You're quite welcome. :)

xarax
4th Feb 2004, 18:51
Originally posted by Apocrypha Roxy
Ah yes, I forgot about the right-hand/left-hand controls (haven't played PC games in a while, but neglected to remember I just finished a Thief FM).


Was it my FM "The Varyx Obelisk" for ThiefGold? ;)

Apocrypha Roxy
4th Feb 2004, 23:14
I don't have ThiefGold... >.<
Actually it was Rowena's Curse for T2, and for some reason killing Rowena at the end didn't tick off... so now I've opened the front gates with Isabella to end the mission, and nothing's happening even though all other objectives are completed, loot and all. It seems Rowena decided not to buy the farm yet on this mission... :rolleyes: OH, and I got that little 'secret' objective ticked off. That was cute. ^_^