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Tin Star
23rd Jan 2004, 04:11
I just got an up date from gamespot who is tracking the game for me and they said that Thief III will support a third person cinematic view as well as the first person view that has been in the game all along.They also have some more new screens on the game if you want to take a look and it does look like the title will be "Deadly Shadows"Gamespot checked with Eidos and got the heads up on the name for Thief III.

:cool: Tin Star

ChowYunFat
23rd Jan 2004, 04:59
As I said in my post in the Thief 3 folder, I don't like the idea of 3rd person & certainly won't be using it. It seems a waste of programming time that could have been used for something more appropriate to Thief.

I don't like the name either. Dropping the "3" is an indication that they are focusing on selling the game to X-Box users who wouldn't know where Thiefs 1 & 2 were. I think these bits of news are both bad, but who knows what Spring will bring.

Xcom
23rd Jan 2004, 06:08
I, for one, am glad there is 3rd person view, and if you can easily switch between views (like in Morrowind), it would be perfect.

Peter_Smith
23rd Jan 2004, 07:04
Originally posted by Xcom
I, for one, am glad there is 3rd person view, and if you can easily switch between views (like in Morrowind), it would be perfect.

To each his own. I understand that one is not forced to use it. Nevertheless, I think third person is detrimental for realism, suspense, and sneaking. Can't see the AI? Just fly up and get the lay of the land. That spoils the atmosphere, as far as I am concerned. It's not at all the same leaning and peeking around corners. Speaking of which, didn't they eliminate the lean keys in DX-IW? I hope they come back.

Tin Star
23rd Jan 2004, 15:04
To answer your question on DE-IW yes they did eliminate the lean keys on the game as for the title name for the new Thief game I would think that it would go something like the second game did "THIEF III" Deadly Shadows.I for one don't care what they call it as long as its a good game and can still be played in the view that the other two were in,I also hope they didn't do away with any of the key movements as they did in DE-IW.

:cool: Tin Star

ChowYunFat
23rd Jan 2004, 19:48
I was skimming though the preview article about T3 on Gamespot the other day & read this quote:

Randy Smith, lead designer and project lead for Thief III, told us that while this cross-platform approach presented some technical challenges, it has undoubtedly benefited the gameplay. The earlier games in the series let players use many different commands mapped to various keyboard controls, but the same commands in Thief III have been reworked for both consoles and PCs so the game's control will be "simple, clear, and powerful."
This sounds like they have definitely re-worked the controls extensively to make them simpler. So they may have taken the lean keys out. And hopefully we'll be able to re-map these controls.

Tin Star
24th Jan 2004, 02:24
That sounds like they have done the samething with Thief III that they done with DX-IW,this could be a bad omen I hope its not but a lot of people were not happy with what they done to the DX-IW war game.

:cool: Tin Star

Gumdrop
24th Jan 2004, 03:53
3rd person... *shiver*. Great for Lara Croft and all that climbing doo-lally, but a no-go for Mr. G! Purely a console move by the developers me thinks, and am pleased it is but a distra... err... option. If I can see my feet when I look down (I am told I can) then that is all I need for roof hopping. This was/is the only thing that makes 3D platformers so **** (I have fond memories of the genre).

I'm more worried about this wall climbing glove buisness. Not so much the effect it will have on the official game, but rather the FM community. There are FM creators that tackle their creations with alot of thaught, and... I cringe at using the word... maturity, and there are those that don't. I see lots of early fan missions (or whatever they will be called) being nothing more that a spiderman parody just becouse it is new and "cool".

An interesting poll comes to mind. :)

Huntress
24th Jan 2004, 03:55
OH crappie doo doo...I'm very sorry to see that post from Randy as it seems to put a damper on Thief games as we knew it!!! I was afraid this was going to be the case as indications I've seen on other posts regarding some of the coding for T3 and DE:IW seemed to be intertwined to the point where it was also going to favor the Xbox version (since it's more limited) at the PC players expense :mad: We may have a choice of first/third personn view but that doesn't make up for what I fear will be the damn way we won't be able to play it in the manner to which we are accustomed !!!!! Just as they have robbed the way to play DE:IW from the PC'rs. I will also not massage the game in the way that many of the players of DE:IW found necessary to do to even give it a half-way PC look/play/performance :(

This had better change (which I doubt) or I for one will not buy it!!!! Again I sincerely hope this will not come to fruition but my hopes are fading fast now :( Ta and Good Coding for the PC'rs!

Orumph
25th Jan 2004, 16:10
Yep, forget about it. This game is going to be pure ****e.
With dumbed down controls/game play. This is sad.

Cater to the console and forget the PC gamers that put them where they are. Too bad Looking Glass couldn't find a better dev house to sell Thief rights to.

I was prepared to give them the benefit of doubt, but I already know the outcome. You really would have to be blind not to see it coming. Personaly, it wouldn't bother me a bit if they didn't release this for PC.

thegrommit
25th Jan 2004, 16:55
How many of you have played Splinter Cell?

Chiefdreams
25th Jan 2004, 17:33
I believe Splinter cell is a 3rd person shooter. Most of us won't play that. I won't.

thegrommit
25th Jan 2004, 17:45
Originally posted by Chiefdreams
I believe Splinter cell is a 3rd person shooter. Most of us won't play that. I won't.

If you read some reviews of it, you'd realise that its primarily a third person sneaker. Firearms play as much of a role as swords did in Looking Glass' Thief games - i.e. little to none.

My point is that third person view in stealth games can work well. And I for one will wait until the demo is released before rushing to judgement.

[edit] reworded last paragraph

Orumph
25th Jan 2004, 18:58
Well,, my personal feelings are that it will be another crappy DX:IW.

And Grommit must work for Eidos/IS. Cause apprently, Eidos/IS can do no wrong by him/her. You sure do like to defend them a lot.

thegrommit
25th Jan 2004, 19:28
Originally posted by Orumph
Well,, my personal feelings are that it will be another crappy DX:IW.


Thank you for bringing up DX:IW. That's a perfect example for ignoring the pre-release hype and judging a game when the demo comes out.

[edit] not playing the troll game

Orumph
25th Jan 2004, 20:13
You never deny working for Eidos/IS. And I have brought it up many times. I am not the only one who feels the way I do.
Believe me, I wish I would have heeded the warning of the Demo, I figured at the time it was just a demo and Demo's are not always perfect cause they are demo's.

Like it or not, T3 is headed the exact same way IW is. And that is sad. 4 or 5 levels that lead back on themselves with constant level loads and dumbed down controls. They need to get the 12 yr. old X-Boxer money. That's the only way they can do it.

I will be extrremely surprised if I'm wrong. And I will come out here and admit I'm wrong if I am.

But, If I'm right, you Post a pick of you wearing knee pads, on your knees infront of Warren. :D

Unless you are Warren in desguise.

*************************
Randy Smith, lead designer and project lead for Thief III, told us that while this cross-platform approach presented some technical challenges, it has undoubtedly benefited the gameplay. The earlier games in the series let players use many different commands mapped to various keyboard controls, but the same commands in Thief III have been reworked for both consoles and PCs so the game's control will be "simple, clear, and powerful."
******************

The more I read that the more I can only think of how stupid does he think we are? No matter how you word it the conclusion is the same. Well, they can't have all these keyboard keys mapped to a Control Pad, we'll have to get rid of some.

Maybe we are going to get Mortal Kombat control style with this.

Oh no, he said Simple, Clear, Powerful.

Powerful? um,, ok. Powerful must be how quickly Eidos can seperate the kids from thier Cash.

thegrommit
25th Jan 2004, 20:46
Originally posted by Orumph
You never deny working for Eidos/IS.


LMAO - priceless.

I don't plan on responding to the rest of your troll, but it amuses me that you tried (and disliked) the demo but still went and bought the game. :D

Orumph
25th Jan 2004, 21:31
I guess you're laughing all the way to the bank eh Warren?

The thing is I gave it the benefit of doubt, I gave it a shot at the real game. Having faith that the broken things in the Demo might actuly have been fixed in the real thing. I was wrong, and I paid for it. And I will complain about it till I feel I have gotten my monies worth. Having paid for it and played through the entire game, I think my opinion matters as much as anyone elses who has done the same.

My critisim has been constructive. You call me a troll cause I claim you work for Eidos/IS (never denying it, just laughing about it).
Or are you calling me a troll cause I bash the game for what it is.

Personaly, your defense of DX:IW (which really is a terrible game besides certain decent concepts/attempts at style and originality, Other than that the game sucks) is quite laughable itself. Even without the tech problems. There is no chalenge to the game, no way to get imersed in it cause of all the level loading. But you know this and continue to Die Hardily defend it for what it clearly is not.

I know that it is all a matter of opinion. But you defend it way more than it should be and it shows. You should seriously think about what you are defending and be ready to accept what comes out in the future for defending things just like this.

Unless ofcourse, you don't work for Eidos/IS. Maybe you were just brinwashed into believing that DX:IW is a GOTY. Which is incredibly laughable. Then I feel sorry for you.

Just a quote from the other forum that hits the head right on the nail.

"Bot Dom is an abomination. There's no challenge. Even the largest milbots can be reduced to quivering piles of junk relatively easy. The game itself is far too easy to be taken seriously. There's no challenge. DX1 had milbots that could put the fear of god in you. These are kinda like..... kittens...."

***************************************
How this for a bug, I was playing through the game again, hoping I could actuly get into a bit more (didn't work). I got the Enhanced Vision biomod and uped it to level 3. Everytime I turned it on, everyone on the level could see me and started running towards me, turn it off and I was invisible.
****************************************

DX:IW is a precursor of what T3 is going to be, terrible. But I guess you'll defend it all the way too eh?

HOC
26th Jan 2004, 01:24
Originally posted by thegrommit
If you read some reviews of it, you'd realise that its primarily a third person sneaker. Firearms play as much of a role as swords did in Looking Glass' Thief games - i.e. little to none.

My point is that third person view in stealth games can work well. And I for one will wait until the demo is released before rushing to judgement.

[edit] reworded last paragraph

yeah, i guess the third person view will help thief 3. afterall, key commands were "reworked", so i guess that means no leaning. probably added in a 360 degree camera for gameplay. which of course will take away from the game and series. the thought of it is just appalling. since now ya don't have to worry about running into a guard, ya can just use the camera and 6th sense to see where everyone is.

yeah, i'm real excited so far.

as for more "reworking the commands", there probably won't be a zoom in/out for the scouting orb. gamma adjust for personal preference? most likely gone. quick save/load? out the door! clear inventory/weapon/drop item probably got laughed at and nixed. no available choice for sticky crouch (where ya stay crouched after tapping the key once) or hold crouch (when ya hold the key)...cause afterall, there is no difference between one gamer's and another gamer's preference. and quick slot keys for inventory items and weapons are a thing of the past.

no really, this game should clearly blow dx:iw out of the water! i can't wait!!!

Squid
26th Jan 2004, 06:09
Personally, I'm going to wait until the game comes out before I judge whether it's good or bad. I cannot judge whether DX:IW was good or bad because my computer can't run it. (Graphics card isn't supported.)

Am I worried about it? Yes. Could the game bomb? Sure. Can Ion Storm learn from it's mistakes and make a great game? I sure hope so.

While I'm thinking about it.... IS said about a year ago that we shouldn't worry about T3 for the PC being delayed in favor of the X-box version. Well, frankly, if it's going to work as well as DX:IW did upon initial release for PC, they better delay it and make a version of T3 for the PC.

If I wanted to play the X-box version of DX2, I'll go buy an X-box, the game, and then play it. Since I DON'T WANT TO, I'm not going to do that. So, please don't make me play an X-box version of T3 on my PC.

Squid

DreamEndless
26th Jan 2004, 08:48
Originally posted by Squid
...While I'm thinking about it.... IS said about a year ago that we shouldn't worry about T3 for the PC being delayed in favor of the X-box version...
Squid

Hopefully true. Trouble is a certain Mr Spector said the same thing about a certain Deus Ex sequal...:(

thegrommit
27th Jan 2004, 03:06
Originally posted by Orumph
I think my opinion matters as much as anyone elses who has done the same.


Remember this quote, it comes into play later on.



I know that it is all a matter of opinion. But you defend it way more than it should be and it shows.


I do? That must be why I started this thread in an attempt to organise peoples problems in one place:

http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=31067

I'm sure you can show me where I've defended the gameplay :p



Unless ofcourse, you don't work for Eidos/IS. Maybe you were just brinwashed into believing that DX:IW is a GOTY. Which is incredibly laughable. Then I feel sorry for you.


See the first quote. I certainly disagree with your methods, but have made no judgement on your opinion. Yet for some reason, you want to judge mine?

[edit] removed sarcasm

clayman
3rd Feb 2004, 02:52
Keep it up, I'm enjoying this landslide of inconsequential babbling, crotch-kneeing and finger-in-the-eye-poking. :p

Who are you people that are debating with each other ? There have been so many speculations since the release of Thief 2 about the design and format of Thief 3, especially on the other forum, and before your time.....Believe me, if we accepted every dimly-informed theory and advance notion posted here about the fate of Thief 3, we would all be stark raving mad by now. I'm with Squid : reserve judgement until release, play, and then let the comments erupt. This crapola is all just speculation based on averages of medians of averages of guesses. Pah.

If the designers eventually ruin my game that I have played longer than 99.9% of the rest of you, then believe me, everyone will hear about it and my voice will be among the loudest. Until then, please try to be reasonable and bit lest speculative. Thieves squabbling amongst themselves is really a bit embarrassing.

:)

Mr. Perfect
3rd Feb 2004, 05:05
*Mr. Perfect makes good use of the distraction and taffs a pair of purses.*

Sotos
6th Feb 2004, 20:08
I am afraid these game will become like Deus Ex Invisible war

I do not like -Xbox transferred to PC- games

I am hoping the game engine becomes better for the PC and not like DEUS EX IW is

DreamEndless
7th Feb 2004, 00:45
Originally posted by Sotos
I do not like -Xbox transferred to PC- games

Sorry dude, get used to it 'cos it is gonna happen more and more often now :(


I am hoping the game engine becomes better for the PC and not like DEUS EX IW is

No chance. Seriously: Dream on. They aint gonna do jack. As long as it stands upright on half a dozen machines, that is all IS and eidos care about.
The screen shots showing the engine so far say it all. Muddy brown, low detail, crappily textured nonsense. Stick all the ragdolling and real time lighting in it you like. It is still gonna look like something the cat barfed up.

Time to face it: The Thief and Deus franchises are dead. XBOX has whored both of them and, thanks to the sales this will provide, we will never see a change in direction.:(

Mr. Perfect
7th Feb 2004, 19:34
What...

Mr. Perfect
7th Feb 2004, 19:35
just

Mr. Perfect
7th Feb 2004, 19:36
happened? A Quadpost?

Mr. Perfect
7th Feb 2004, 19:37
The big problem with the dull brown, flat and lifeless look is the truely horrible textures they used. Some DE:IW fans redid the textures, and the engine has the possiblity to look very nice.

Check this out (http://home.online.no/~johmoe/images/JohnP_DX-IW_Textures/Comparisons.html)! The engine is capeable of some woundrous things, but it's a questing of how much time they want to put into what uses it. Just look at the power armor comparisons. :mad:

Huntress
8th Feb 2004, 00:34
Yes, I had seen those on the other forum and he did a pretty good job overall but still didn't like some of his changes he did on character faces (some others made a similar comment about them also)...but there again...I will not go through all the hassle of massaging the game when I expect this all to be done by the dev's, etc. :( If they will not build me a PC friendly game ILO a cross-platformed game...then they can keep their _____ game! :mad: I'll go buy something else then...like HL2 or whatever else strikes my fancy!!! Then continue to play all the very well done and more forthcoming FM's for T2.

Then if they release an SDK for T3 and someone can convert it to play like the other FM's (HUD(SLOTS)/KEYBOARD-MOUSE SETTINGS/RESOLUTIONS/TEXTURES/QS/LEANING/MAP SIZES...you get the idea) then maybe I'll buy it later on for that purpose?). But I will not buy it just because it's another Thief game...just like I won't buy DE:IW just because it's another DE game as much as I really liked the original of that one too! So I will not spend my $50. as my protest against this type of game and as my way of saying I will not accept your manner of programming for my PC capable platform!!!!

Agulf
8th Feb 2004, 19:05
Good thing the 3d person view is an OPTION, Cutty. Or I'd have to kill you for s... Uhm... :)

I guess the only thing we old pcers will use it for is for... Uhm... screenshots?

What do they meen with the keys? If its things like instead of having two buttons for seeing around corners they combine them into one button+direction, that would be "ok"...
But if we get punnished by "simplified controlls" that would not be ok. Let the x-boxers get a keyboard and mouse, as their little rektangle is already a computer-console-hybrid so whats the difference? Will there be some sort of "classic controlls"-option for the pc?

sorry for the spelling but I'm upset and in a hurry m'kay.,.

John P.
8th Feb 2004, 23:17
Originally posted by Huntress
Yes, I had seen those on the other forum and he did a pretty good job overall but still didn't like some of his changes he did on character faces (some others made a similar comment about them also)

I need some constructive feedback, so could you please tell me more specifically what you find not to be good about the faces.

Please take a look at my page(address in my signature), as that's where the latest updates are. The female face that is in the community made Texture Pack is an older version than on my page.
I also have various versions of the male face, in case it's the scars and/or beard you didn't like.

Also take into consideration that I can't change the models, I have to tailor the textures to how the texture is stretched and contorted onto the model. Which unfortunately happens a lot with the textures in DX:IW, and makes it harder to make them.