PDA

View Full Version : "Here's a strange theory" or "How I spend my free time"



Lady_D
29th Nov 2003, 17:03
I was watching trailer 5 the other day (the last trailer that www.legacyofkain.com made available), and a weird idea struck me. I was reading those famous lines- "What if the only person who could save you, was the only one who could destroy you?" etc. When I got to "Redeemer, destroyer....only one may survive." something struck a chord, so I went back to blinc's site and checked..... and yes, Amy Hennig did say that Raziel was both the redeemer and destroyer pictured in the murals. OK, now read that line again. "Redeemer, destroyer...only one may survive." This could imply that at least part of Raziel did survive and part did not. Remember Amy said he is both. Think about it. If some part of Raz did not survive and some part did, which part survived? The redeemer, or the destroyer? Just a bizarre thing I thought of ya'll. :D I love hypothetical situations!

LauraOrganaSolo
30th Nov 2003, 03:56
First of all, I love your title for this thread. "... or, How I Spend My Free Time" could easily be applied to anything I post. :D

Second of all, this is a fascinating thought. It has a lot of potential and... I guess I can't think of anything beyond that at this point in time. Perhaps after a bit of sleep and some food. *laughs*

MajinVejitaXV
30th Nov 2003, 04:17
Technically, that's already been answered. The "Redeemer" Raziel was the one to 'survive', and he sacrificed himself to purify Kain and make the Soul Reaver (which I still contend now possesses two Raziel's, since Raz says "Both Soul Reavers...together...")

-Corey

Zephonsfate
30th Nov 2003, 05:48
no, I don't think there are two raziels. The reaver that Kain held was the one from the ending of SR2 that did not suck Raziel inside before Kain pulled it from raziel. It was simply still the blood reaver. However you must go back to when Kain first struck Raz at the pillars. The Reaver shattered because it could and would not conume its own soul. So at that time the reaver blade must have been endowed with Raziels spirit. Well, maybe only a small esscence of Raziels soul had been in the reaver in SR1. So in the next game, Raziel could very well have the ability to enter r exit the reaver, or perhaps Kain will have that power to command Raziel out to fight alongside him sort of like a valkrye spirit. In the next game Kain will obviously have to enter the underworld a time or two to weed out the elder god, so either he will gain the ability himself to shift or Raziel will aid him in this part of the story. Either way good thought Lady D.

MajinVejitaXV
30th Nov 2003, 15:10
Yes, I understand that the Reaver that Kain weilds in Defiance does not possess Raz's soul yet, I'm saying that the Reaver now (in other words, at the end of Defiance) possesses two incarnations of Raziel's spirit: The wraith blade, and his own soul.

Why? Well, it can't just be the wraith blade that goes inside the Reaver. And 2nd, the Reaver is obviously more powerful at the end of Defiance, as we can hear the purified wraith blade's song as the sword is being swung. So...it stands to reason that Raziel's soul and the wraith blade (otherwise known as....Raziel's soul :P) are absorbed into the blade at the end of Defiance.

-Corey

kam
30th Nov 2003, 15:12
ok...maybe i missed something really obvious...but..lets do a reaver count here. there is the soul reaver kain hit raziel with in SR ....but what about williams reaver...the one raz heals at the begining of SR2. so..that make 3 soul reavers (raziel himself included) and .....maybe i'm wierd..ok i AM wierd but doesnt that mean one reaver isnt acounted for?and 2 versions of the soul reaver now occupy..the uh soul reaver?

Crimson_Pain
1st Dec 2003, 00:50
Kam there is only one soul reaver different people have it at different time, the reason why you see it all over the place and throughout time is not because there are multiple version of the blade it just means that it been around for a really long time.

And there is only one soul inside the blood reaver; Raziel's. The wraith blade his future self was absorbed into kain, to heal him and cure him of the curruption that Napraptor inflicted upon him and the rest of the circle of nine when Ariel died.

Oh Zephonsfate, how can you even suggest such a thing... Raziel's too solid a character to be used so cheaply like that. I mean, i don't want to sound rude or anything and i'm one of those people who got hooked on to LOK because of SR1, meaning i like Raziel more than Kain and would love to see him back but as a summoned character?! think about it, it'd be like;

Kain: ah there are enemies over there, Raziel i summon you, go kick their butt.

he's a devourer of souls, a soul reaver and the angel of death not a freaking pokemon.

And if there was some way for him to escape his enternal prison why on earth would he want to go back in?! man that'd make him like a genie;

(Kain rubs the soul reaver, it shakes and out comes Raziel)

Raziel: Yes master, what do you wish of me?

Argh man, i'm sorry, i didn't mean to act like such a jerk, but the guy's my favorite character in LOK. And using him so cheaply would be like Yuna summoning Cloud to perform omnislash or something :mad:

Umah Bloodomen
1st Dec 2003, 01:05
Kindly watch your language, please. Thanks. :)

kakarot
1st Dec 2003, 05:24
Originally posted by Crimson_Pain
Oh Zephonsfate, how can you even suggest such a thing... Raziel's too solid a character to be used so cheaply like that. I mean, i don't want to sound rude or anything and i'm one of those people who got hooked on to LOK because of SR1, meaning i like Raziel more than Kain and would love to see him back but as a summoned character?! think about it, it'd be like;

Kain: ah there are enemies over there, Raziel i summon you, go kick their butt.

he's a devourer of souls, a soul reaver and the angel of death not a freaking pokemon.

And if there was some way for him to escape his enternal prison why on earth would he want to go back in?! man that'd make him like a genie;

(Kain rubs the soul reaver, it shakes and out comes Raziel)

Raziel: Yes master, what do you wish of me?

Argh man, i'm sorry, i didn't mean to act like such a jerk, but the guy's my favorite character in LOK. And using him so cheaply would be like Yuna summoning Cloud to perform omnislash or something :mad:

BWAHAHAHAHA!!

I AM LM*O!!!

nail + hammer = sealed coffin

saintgadreel
1st Dec 2003, 05:41
The wraith blade that Raziel Wields is his own soul, tortured and corrupted from the event shown at SR2's ending only he was indeed swallowed. These games follow a strange method of altering history, but the idea is sound. In LOKD Moebius dies twice....think about it. Once in the timeline of Kain from BO1 which happens simultaneously as Kain and Raziel are moving through the world, and then again he dies while he is at the Elder God. The trick is the only way he could be there at that time would be to have timestreamed....before he died the first time. Once again the future has been changed....thus BO2.

As for the reaver, Raziel purified the blade, but the wraith blade had not been purified, and embodied the 'destroyer' aspect of his purpose. The defiled reaver was meant to occur BECAUSE of all that happened to destroy the pillar. The hylden planned it that way to create the means to even begin Kain's path to freeing them....but after that they forgot to wonder whether kain would live without his heart.....and failed to realize just how strong Kains younger self was to begin with....

My head hurts from all the possibilities for the next game. If they don't continue this story I will become irrational and violent :P.
After all this series as a whole is awesome. I would hate to see it end before its time....

Crimson_Pain
1st Dec 2003, 20:13
huh ?! what are you talking about saintgadreel?!

i'm lost man... i thought BO2 was a direct result of Raziel restoring Janos Heart of Darkness. what on earth does Mobi dying twice have to do with anything?! i mean if he had died BEFORE the young kain had the chance to kill him in BO1 than that would have cause a paradox that might end the world but like kain said towards the end of LOKD;

Kain: "You see, this time, you have nothing that I want."

Meaning that once he had served his purpose (to die at the hands of the young kain) he means jack all now. it didn't matter if he was killed twice by both Kain and Raziel (which was sweet justice) or killed a million times. IT DIDN'T MATTER ANYMORE!!!

and what do you mean the reaver was purified not the wraith blade?! it was the wraith blade that was purified!! the reaver wasn't corrupted it's a blood sucking weapon remember?! and Raziel used the wraith blade to heal Kain of his corruption and Raziel's soul was absorbed into the blood reaver thus creating the soul reaver.

Dace
1st Dec 2003, 21:32
I think it was the Redemption aspect of Raziel that won out in the end. Instead of destroying Kain, and ending Nosgoth for good Raziel choose self sacfrice and to purify the blood reaver so that can would have a new ... better soul reaver.

I'd also find it unlikely that Raziel would play a part in the next game. Even if he could return what happen? It's obivous that his wraith blade can not harm the Elder God. Conversly with out Raziel inside the blood reaver it is powerless to harm the Elder God. The purified soul reaver is what hurts the Elder God. Kain won't need to make trips to the underworld. Why? Because the Elder God is in both places as well. And since you can't carry anything over into the spirit world when you go it's not like Kain would be equiped to deal with the Elder God in the spirit realm. So traveling back and forth for Kain is not really an opition. He will have to find a way to find the Elder God in the material world.

And to the comment about multiple soul reavers. Nope ... just one blade. In any case that you see more than one it's normally due to the fact that someone traveled from another time, likely the future, with it in hand. When Kain battled William he was armed with the Soul Reaver from hsi time while William had the one in hsi current time stream.

Crimson_Pain
1st Dec 2003, 21:47
Well i wouldn't count Raziel out of the next game just yet and sure it's highly unlikely but there's always a possibility. As for Raziel returning it can only be his wraith form (you know the wraith blade, his future self thats now bond to kain to cure him of his corruption) he cannot escape the reaver or else Raziel the soul devouer would have never come to possess the wraith blade and therefore would never have been able to unlock all those secrets, never mind that if his soul escape the reaver before he's meeting with kain in SR1 then he would have been dead because it would have been the blood reaver not the soul reaver.