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View Full Version : Does the demo have the complete AI. I sure hope not.



IconoclastDX
24th Nov 2003, 08:06
Just two examples. I could list SOOO many.

1- The guard who lets you into the loft apartment will blow his top if you touch the ATM but could care less if he sees you hack the security contols on the other side of the fence.

2- I just defeated Saks under 30 seconds. How? The spy drone. You see. Guards dont seem to care that a drone is flying around there head and taking their commorades out left and right.

I know, "How did you get the spy drone?" (http://www.ionstorm.com/forum/viewthread.asp?page=5&pagesize=20&forum=AMB_AP619612110&id=34880) The point is is that these guards should have reactions coded in to their AI. I mean, come on! The spy drone is a major peice of arsenal! Its like not scripting responces to gun fire! Man I hope this demo was short changed, or whoever buys this game sure will be.

Darkhelm
24th Nov 2003, 08:07
Awww, I'd hoped this thread would feature another biased poll, was getting ready to join the masses. No luck. :(

IconoclastDX
24th Nov 2003, 08:09
My polls arn't biased, the devs and their apologist are. :)

Darkhelm
24th Nov 2003, 08:13
Originally posted by IconoclastDX
My polls arn't biased, the devs and their apologist are. :)


Oh, so next time I see a thread titled

"Oh what a complete ****-up!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!", and then 4 options such as

"Yeah this game sucks ass!!!!@!#@#"

"Yeah, well, it's bad, mate"

"It's ok"

"I like it"

I will know I have an unbiased poll in front of me

:rolleyes:

IconoclastDX
24th Nov 2003, 19:13
And what about he security cameras. How gay and "dumb-downed" (yes I said it) are they now. I would just love to hear a devs try to confabulate their way out of the bright green junk they have shinning out of the cameras now. For everyone wih an unbiased mind, its obvious they did that to make the game easier to play for for immature or less patient gamers who are used to just running around without a second thought. In DX1 you actually had to be sort of careful when entering a new area. Heck, maybe I even had to be quite and use my EARS (GASP!) in order to avoid being seen. So dissapointing.

nimbus
24th Nov 2003, 21:24
Does a spy drone kill people? I thought it was only for bots before. If it does, that's awesome!! Please let me know how the other mods are working.

Sense
24th Nov 2003, 22:29
Does anyone else remember the interview where a developer said the enemies would be so incredibly advanced -- they would form groups, create traps, etc.?

I knew that was a lie.

Icon, I agree...if someone can't recognized this game was dumbed down to suit another audience (dollar dollar bill yo), then he/she is a moron.

F3nyx
24th Nov 2003, 23:17
I too was hoping for some notable AI. Unfortunately that doesn't seem to be present in the demo.

buzzfunk
24th Nov 2003, 23:17
Pretty much everything that was promised isnt here.

The AI in HL was more advanced. That game was released in 1998.

Seems that IS here just defending themselfs instead of fixing the issues at hand.

Im still not sure if anyone at IS actually played or tested the pc demo. I mean after having a hit game with 30+ awards, dont you wanna make sure its the best it can be?

Sindrel
24th Nov 2003, 23:36
So far the AI is just weak.

Most advanced things they do:

1.Follow noises
2.Take cover(even into other rooms) in fire fights.



Thats it!! They dont even climb ladders. :(

Viking2
25th Nov 2003, 00:07
Stupid AI... there's something I would never expect from this sequel. I mean, that was plainly going to be one of the stronger points of the game, and one of the original DX's few weaknesses; why in the hell didn't they improve on it? I mean, they said they would. Weird...

Jesus, P.I.
25th Nov 2003, 01:48
Hmm, Viking2, eh? Original was better. :D

IconoclastDX
25th Nov 2003, 07:57
Do any "I think DX:IW is the greatest" apologist want to comment on this? Are we all just cynical bastards with pie-in-the-sky expectations? Please. Anyone?

IconoclastDX
26th Nov 2003, 05:49
Didnt think so.

CodyLamp
26th Nov 2003, 06:18
I think the game is pretty fun, ITS A DEMO!! Wait for the full game.

al_bundy
26th Nov 2003, 10:54
ok iconoclast i will respond!!!

The AI - ok i admit it doesn't appear amazing but like has been said many times before, WAIT FOR THE FULL GAME!!!!! Why don't you stop looking for things that are so bad and start appreciating the things that are good????? What's so wrong in that? I mean, if every game released was reviewed based on it's demo then it'd be a pretty crappy gaming society. That's why reviewers are given full versions, and most of the PREVIEWERS who have been given full (or nearly full) versions are raving about the game.

Is it possible that maybe the full game will be better, much better than the demo?? Of course it's possible!!! It's also possible that it won't be but shouldn't we wait and see??? Wait for some reviews maybe???? Wait for a friend to buy and try his version?????

And for an example of quite smart AI, how about this. I accessed the security console beneath the helipad and turned the turret on to attack the guards etc. I went up the ladder and shot a window to get the guards to investigate. Each of them came out and were shot by the turret. BUT THEN, saks came out quite a while after and starting shooting the turret, and ended up blowing it up! She then turned her gun on me but before she could shoot i had shot the gas cannister which knocked her out. I thought that was pretty cool.

Random
26th Nov 2003, 11:15
I was pretty impressed when a guard investigated the bunk room because I had left the door open.

Nikhaj
26th Nov 2003, 11:39
here is very nice post about the AI..

http://66.193.119.177/index.php?showtopic=205499

darklightning
27th Nov 2003, 00:09
Ug, How can people honestly make ANY real assumptions about the AI based on the demo? There's max of maybe, what, 6 guys to kill?

Also, I found out that even though your weapon gets put away when you climb the ladder, you can pull it back out and fire while your on the ladder.

Shinnosuke
27th Nov 2003, 00:42
Hahaha, Al Bundy there bravely responds. But does he falsify your comment about A.I.?
Not he says: the full game will be betters0rs! w00t w00t!

I love these defenders of the game.

Makes me wonder though. Did they dumb down the intelligence? :D

Or do we just call it artificial dumbness now. :confused:

Benjie
27th Nov 2003, 01:15
I think the pop ups at the start of the game are annoying. They give the impression of a dumbed down game and there are a lot of them all next to each other. The first time I approached the guard, it was yet ANOTHER pop up. All I wanted to do was explore the game, but the stupid, stupid guard annoyed me. (his idiocy is part of the storyline) That combined with the dark screen, the crappy bug eyes on npc's, and the Framerate issues that almost everybody gets, makes for a pretty annoying initial experience with artificial intelegence. The next time you see an npc is in Herrens Loft where they are all bunched together and pushing each other out of the way (which looks horrible in every computer game) And after that in the bar where you overhear conversations and chat away. I think that the level of the AI is shrouded by the circumstances of the demo, but the ai is only slightly above average in relation to other modern computer games. Guards become antagonistic before becomeing hostile, people ask you to move if you block them, npc's are aware of there surroundings on a deeper level than most games. I think the AI is very acceptable. I just wish that there where more options in Dialoug, and npc's looked a little better when they spoke to you.

Shinnosuke
27th Nov 2003, 01:50
Benjie I think you are more or less off topic here. most of what you describe is not A.I. but things that annoy people and scripted events.

And the claims you make are pretty severe. Npc's are more aware of their environment?
The A.I. is slightly better than the average game?

I am assuming here you mean game where A.I. actually matters and I think that's stretching it very far. After games where the A.I. (or scripting) actually made for convincing behaviour, like hitman, Deus Ex but especially No one lives forever 2, it is pretty damn hard to uphold such claims.

If the A.I. would have been that good, even without the other annoyances, wouldn't this thread have been superfluous?

I advise you to look at the ion storm forum link given earlier by Nikhaj. It is hilarious (for those that can take negativity about the demo/game) and very true.

Random
27th Nov 2003, 02:16
Originally posted by Shinnosuke
I advise you to look at the ion storm forum link given earlier by Nikhaj. It is hilarious (for those that can take negativity about the demo/game) and very true.

I don't think it is true, actually. Very little is actually related to the AI (it's lengthened by complaining about physics, etc.) and some problems, like AI running in circles, I have never seen myself. Sounds more like a quirk than consistently bad AI routines.

I'm not saying the AI is perfect, or even really good, but exaggerating things by pretending that one anomaly is representative of the whole game is silly.

Shinnosuke
27th Nov 2003, 02:37
Originally posted by Random
I don't think it is true, actually. Very little is actually related to the AI (it's lengthened by complaining about physics, etc.) and some problems, like AI running in circles, I have never seen myself. Sounds more like a quirk than consistently bad AI routines.

I'm not saying the AI is perfect, or even really good, but exaggerating things by pretending that one anomaly is representative of the whole game is silly.

Well, I don't think he just mentions one anomaly. He mentions at least half a dozen. And just the fact that people do not react negatively to being shot in the face is very strange.

And he mentions several more very dubious choices the people make.

Nobody said it is representative of the whole game. If you look closely to the thread title you see that they hope the full game has better a.i.

Well, I think it would be pretty irrational to hope it would be any better in the full game for situations mentioned in the story. So allw e can hope for is great battle A.I. The battles in the demo and in the gameplay movies do not point to such a relief.

I just can't belief people aren't allowed to be at the very least sceptic. No, we just all ahve to realise it's a demo and the full game will be the second coming of Christ, the lord almighty.
I'd rather be realistic and not be disappointed even worse. Hell, the negativity here it so big the game can be complete crap and we'll still be positively surprised. Only true fanboys use that tactic to enjoy a game. Instead of blindly ignoring faults. :)

Random
27th Nov 2003, 02:59
Originally posted by Shinnosuke
And just the fact that people do not react negatively to being shot in the face is very strange.
That's not AI, it's a design choice. They decided to give the player some leeway in case they accidently shoot their allies. Maybe they didn't need quite so much leeway, but I'm glad my allies won't turn on me when a shot goes astray. And remember that they were allies, not neutrals. We don't know how neutral NPCs will react.

In DX1, did you think it was cool when you accidently shot Paul during the 'Ton hotel raid and he immediately tried to kill you? I remember seeing many complaints about that, actually, and I found it very frustrating. That's one situation where it would have been good if the game cut me some slack.


I just can't belief people aren't allowed to be at the very least sceptic.
When did I ever say people aren't allowed to be skeptical? I've expressed my own views on the demo, and many of them were negative. It just annoys me when people exaggerate the truth to substantiate their claims.

Shadowsoldier
27th Nov 2003, 06:10
Uye. Guys this happens everytime in games. Dont be so suprised. Developers promise you life life , real army tactics. grab u by the neck A.I. When you play the game you realise its a bunch a scripted stuff. Guys its A.I. The only thing that will act like the real thing is the real thing. Polygons and big code A human does not make. Atoms, immune system , bone structure. and organs a human does make. Half life 2 sais its gonne be breakthrough A.I. Now I'm not saying there gonna lie too. Im just saying . well. I never really cared about A.I. in a game. It never bothered me. But if people run into walls and stuff. That will rarely happen in the real world. But like I said. Its A.I. not humans. c ya

Shinnosuke
27th Nov 2003, 11:28
Originally posted by Shadowsoldier
Uye. Guys this happens everytime in games. Dont be so suprised. Developers promise you life life , real army tactics. grab u by the neck A.I. When you play the game you realise its a bunch a scripted stuff. Guys its A.I. The only thing that will act like the real thing is the real thing. Polygons and big code A human does not make. Atoms, immune system , bone structure. and organs a human does make. Half life 2 sais its gonne be breakthrough A.I. Now I'm not saying there gonna lie too. Im just saying . well. I never really cared about A.I. in a game. It never bothered me. But if people run into walls and stuff. That will rarely happen in the real world. But like I said. Its A.I. not humans. c ya


Well, I have played the halflife 2 beta and it all seemed very excellent. And then I messed around with worldcraft and several tools to get under the skin of the game and what seemed like great A.I. was in fact a lot of elaborate scripting.

Makes me wonder how you should define A.I.

For example the shot to the face Random mentions. I suppose you are right, it is a design choice. but since the team designed the A.I. isn't everything they do design choices?

I am no expert on the subject, but I definitely would say reacting to shots and being shot would fall under the A.I. territory.


Random, you indeed did not say we weren't allowed to be skeptical. But that post exaggerated everything to be funny, i hop at least that was clear (the ion storm forum post). And when i say that what they say is true, I of course mean much more salient.