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Darkhelm
24th Nov 2003, 07:53
mass hysteria
n.
A condition in which a large group of people exhibit similar physical or emotional symptoms, such as anxiety or extreme excitement. Also called epidemic hysteria.



More on this topic and how to get help, continue reading here:

http://kwhaley.20m.com/masshysteria.htm

Bonk
24th Nov 2003, 08:18
I've seen this many times before on the web on other devs websites, devs WHO SCREW UP THEIR GAME

The original game has a very rabid following and when something they were looking forward to for so long gets screwed up they complain and get upset

You on the otherhand would probably buy and play anything put in front of you and enjoy making fun of and flaming the upset potential customers in and old fashioned troll vs fanboi war only this time many of the mad people are not trolls

:D

Darkhelm
24th Nov 2003, 08:30
I probably buy (that's the part where you trade in some of your money in order to acquire a product - just making sure the concept is clear here) about 3 to 4 games a year, usually upon release.

As a result, I am very picky about what I get. What's going on on this forum is a witch-hunt, and some people that should maybe re-arrange their priorities in life. Deus Ex 2 is just a game, and from what I've seen, it'll be a very enjoyable experience.

I don't think the dev team ruined DX2. If you feel that way, honor that feeling by not buying this game. Just don't claim the title of "true fan" just because you are bashing the sequel to a great game for some apparent weaknesses and then some! I consider myself a big fan, as well, so that truth has to be somewhere in the middle, and not as radical and harsh as you and your fellow dev-supporters make it out to be.

Bonk
24th Nov 2003, 08:34
I dont claim any true fan status. I know what I liked about the old game and Im not seeing it in the demo and the features in the new game

I only buy a few games a year now and mostly play MMOGs like AO, DAOC and other games and this game was top on my list to pick up and now I might pass the whole thing up

But Ion Storm is used to this with that other great game DaiKatana.

And I will probably not pick up the game. Have fun flaming and picking on the disappointed Deus Ex fans. Not all of them are trolls you know

Oh well :D

ABRAXAAS
24th Nov 2003, 08:35
Originally posted by Bonk
I've seen this many times before on the web on other devs websites, devs WHO SCREW UP THEIR GAME

The original game has a very rabid following and when something they were looking forward to for so long gets screwed up they complain and get upset

You on the otherhand would probably buy and play anything put in front of you and enjoy making fun of and flaming the upset potential customers in and old fashioned troll vs fanboi war only this time many of the mad people are not trolls

:D
every damn thing from starwars to barbie has a "Rabid following", and when those supposed "fans" dont get everything exactly there way they FREAK OUT!. and these kinds of people are typicaly people, who dont cope well with change, are suseptable to temper tantrums, and are generally winey in teh real world.

Bonk
24th Nov 2003, 08:38
ABRAXAAS and you are freaking out and bothered by them.

You are no better than them at all. You just put on the white hat and think you are doing the forum and Ion Storm a favor by flaming disappointed Deus Ex fans.

Have fun flaming them :D

Darkhelm
24th Nov 2003, 08:39
Originally posted by Bonk Have fun flaming and picking on the disappointed Deus Ex fans. Not all of them are trolls you know



So, how would you describe the majority of posts here? Inflammatory? Insulting? Arrogant? Laden with completely unfair expectations?

Honestly, the few real gripes that everybody has were totally drowned by the adolescent pouting that has taken place here for a couple days now.

ABRAXAAS
24th Nov 2003, 08:40
Originally posted by Bonk
ABRAXAAS and you are freaking out and bothered by them.

You are no better than them at all. You just put on the white hat and think you are doing the forum and Ion Storm a favor by flaming disappointed Deus Ex fans.

Have fun flaming them :D

im not freaking out and i am having fun flaiming them, thats what i sighed up for, i sure as hell didnt sighn up here for teh stimulating conversation.

i saw all teh bichin and i couldnt help but get in on it.;)

Bonk
24th Nov 2003, 08:42
I see you guys as being no better than the rest. If you didnt flame them and stir up trouble with them the forum would be a much quieter place

Besides its the moderators job to manage the forums not other posters and I've never seen anyone flame their way to a better forum.

Fanboi vs Troll

The battle continues only this time many of the people you and this other kewl dewd are flaming are not trolls.

:D

Viking2
24th Nov 2003, 08:45
every damn thing from starwars to barbie has a "Rabid following", and when those supposed "fans" dont get everything exactly there way they FREAK OUT!. and these kinds of people are typicaly people, who dont cope well with change, are suseptable to temper tantrums, and are generally winey in teh real world.
Just like Ion Storm "doesn't owe it to us to make a good game", we don't owe it to them to buy it. The difference here is how many people bash or praise the game. It's one thing to have a few people bash it. However, it's a completely other thing to have half a dozen communities all over the net with their forums filled with threats and relentless anger. It's not a coincidence. I've observed your posts in some other threads, ABRAXAAS, and I've noticed that you seem to support DX:IW all the time. Why is that? What do you have to go on to have such an unfaltering conviction that this will be nothing short of a messiah for us gamers. After all, we've got a very bad demo (at least most people think so- just check every poll there is about it), some bad advertising, and interviews that suggest that pc gamers (which are the backbone of the current DX fanbase, because the original was pretty much played by only the PC community) are being fed a "dumbed down" version, or, in other words, an overly simplified version. Unless I'm mistaken you've got nothing but faith. It's like believing in God. You WANT there to be some sort of god, so that you're not just "alone", but you can only believe in that blindly, without any proof. Wait for the final game, and we shall see who is correct- the "trolls", or the "fanboys".

Darkhelm
24th Nov 2003, 08:47
Originally posted by Bonk
Besides its the moderators job to manage the forums not other posters and I've never seen anyone flame their way to a better forum.


Oh, come off it, Bonk.

If a mod here so much as touched any of the inflammatory threads here, you guys would cry "murder, censorship, Eidos is trying to silence the millions of outraged fans". If you don't think that's what would happen, then you need to grow up!

You have a neat strategy here. Calling the people that get FED UP (!) with the 200th thread stating the same problem "flamers" of those innocent souls who originated and contribute and pour fuel into the fire of those redundant threads. Maybe if people wouldn't create a thread like "am I the only one who hated this feature" inspite of 200 other threads with that same outcry, there would indeed be peace here.

Just stick with the facts, ok? :mad:

ABRAXAAS
24th Nov 2003, 08:50
FLAMING FLAMING over the bounding waves...

I can see flaming now the rain has gone, its gonna be a bright, bright, fun flamey day...

we can all flame if you want to, you can leave your friends behind, cause if they dont flame and you dont flame then your no friends of mine....hey we can flame, we can flame....

Cant flame this..do do do do dodo dodo cant flame this...

I shot the flamer, but i did not shoot the deputy...

OOPS i flamed you again, i played with your heart, got lost in this game, oh flamey flamey...

alright im bored now

ABRAXAAS
24th Nov 2003, 08:53
QUOTE:
__________________________________________________
Why is that? What do you have to go on to have such an unfaltering conviction that this will be nothing short of a messiah for us gamers
_________________________________________________

hey you wanna know what i have to go on? why i support the game ...CAUSE I PLAYED THE ****ING DEMO AND LIKED IT! if you didnt like it that sucks for you, go away and find a new game to mich about.

Darkhelm
24th Nov 2003, 08:59
Yeah, that's the part I find so arrogant here. It's pretty rude for people to claim "well if you liked this demo you gotta be nuts, a fanboy or an Xbox owner, you certainly didnt play the PC version of DX1". What the **** is that about, please?

Maybe you should decide for yourselves not to get the game, but shmaybe you should refrain from questioning why other people would do so based on the fact that they, after all is said and done, LIKE the demo enough to be still interested in the game.

And Viking, you wonder why a lot of "fanboys" dont mention critical words about the game? Do you really need to wonder? If you were faced with 100 raging people that rip DX2 apart, maybe you would want to stress the fact that you LIKE the game.

Viking2
24th Nov 2003, 08:59
We "flamers" just vented our anger after we played the demo. It was the climax of literally months of doubt, since we'd been given certain clues as to what the final game might be like- basically, just not a Deus Ex game.

Hell, I went into a rage. Good thing there wasn't an axe or something nearby. I'd have been the first beserkir maniac to murder a team of developers over a demo.

The thing is, people have been waiting for this for so long, replaying deus ex over and over, and thinking the second game will be all gravy. The problem is that we're disappointed. I don't want to have to do heavy modding on the original. I don't want to be in doubt whether or not it will even run on my near-brand new Sony VAIO, which meets the recommended requirements of games with much better graphics, sounds, and so on (yes, I couldn't even run the demo. Good thing it ran at my friend's house, somehow, whose computer is older than mine, and is not upgraded). Then, there's the gaming elements, those that can't be solved by a mere modifying of the game slightly in some user.ini file. It's not the same. Some people think it feels like a Deus Ex game. However, most don't, hence the large amount of threads that bash the game.

Then, overly optimistic people come along, get tired of the people who are disappointed, and start threads like this. It's been this way for a long time... I have an old post on it. The result is just more whining in the forum. Retaliating to incessant complaining threads with incessant optimistic threads is not the way to go. If you're going to be optimistic, state your proof. Us pessimists, we have ours (look at previous paragraph).

[EDIT]Wow, these forums are fast as hell. Ok, in response to your new posts about liking the demo... I didn't say everyone didn't like it. However, the majority didn't. It's really not that surprising. I would put a list of the things that are wrong with it, but I think 30,000 people beat me to it here :p . At any rate, I'm not marking anyone a fanboy, I'm just trying to name the opposing groups of gamers. Call it "supporters" vs. "non-supporters". It's the same thing. I take no offense of being called anything, and, if you'll noticed, I called myself a "troll". It just means that you bash the game, for one reason or other.

Bonk
24th Nov 2003, 09:01
Most people who like the demo and the current need dont feel a pathalogical need to flame anyone who disagrees with their opinion.

:D

Darkhelm
24th Nov 2003, 09:03
How easy you make it for yourself here, Viking. State my proof, hmm?

Ok, how about: I found the gameplay, the design of the world and the interaction with that world and its inhabitants and the promise of a great story engrossing enough (still with me?) to end up liking the game? I had a bad reaction to the demo, but I came back and before I knew it, I was hooked and now I can't wait to delve into that world from the beginning. What is so ****ing hard to understand about that? There is no solid proof. Everybody has to decide for themselves whether the things that are WRONG with this game warrant not liking and therefore buying it. If you want me to convince you why you should buy it, then go ****ing look somewhere else :)

Darkhelm
24th Nov 2003, 09:05
Originally posted by Bonk
Most people who like the demo and the current need dont feel a pathalogical need to flame anyone who disagrees with their opinion.

:D

Perhaps you have noticed that the bashers are in the absolute majority here, so don't expect sympathy for your feeling harrassed by people who dare to speak up for the game and defend it a bit, ok?

And, btw, speaking of flaming, always posting a :D at the end of your posts doesn't give you an edge, rather, it makes you look like a retard :p

ABRAXAAS
24th Nov 2003, 09:06
QUOTE:
____________________________________________________
It was the climax of literally months of doubt, since we'd been given certain clues as to what the final game might be like
____________________________________________________

see theres your problem and the same problem most of teh people who didnt like it, you had expectations wether good or bad, are just not good.

I played and loved the first game, but i didnt hang out here for months before the demo, getting hiped up, i just played the demo and loved it, i didnt compare it to the last DX i just played it for what it was, a new game.

Bonk
24th Nov 2003, 09:10
See you flamers later.

I've learned what I need to know and that is DONT BUY THE GAME

:D

Darkhelm
24th Nov 2003, 09:12
Originally posted by Bonk
See you flamers later.

I've learned what I need to know and that is DONT BUY THE GAME

:D


I commend your choice, though I do not share it :)

ABRAXAAS
24th Nov 2003, 09:14
Originally posted by Darkhelm
I commend your choice, though I do not share it :)

I to commend his choice to leave...BROVO! more people should be like you;)

Viking2
24th Nov 2003, 09:14
Darkhelm, I understand your frustration, however there is no need to swear in every other sentence... I'm only having a discussion here, there's no need to be so aggressive. I've done nothing to you.

At any rate, that one post was better. So you liked the demo. Good. However, most people didn't. Now I understand that an opinion derived from a personal experience is difficult to change. However, if most people didn't like it, I think even you have to admit there may be SOME things wrong with it. In fact, you know what I think? I think the power of suggestion is truly great. You said you played the demo and hated it at first. Then, you thought about it, and played it again, and liked it. That's because we all want it to be good. Seeing how many people ranted on stupidly about how much they hated it, stating the same arguments over and over didn't help. However, I think a good game shouldn't need the aid of the power of suggestion to seem good. I mean, if the initial reaction was bad, chances are, it was bad. This can be seen in many other positive threads that are springing up now, from people who thought the game was bad, and then they spent time modifying it, and played it again, until they convinced themselves they were having fun. That shouldn't be the case. At any rate, bring on the flamethrower... I'm ready for yah ;)

ABRAXAAS
24th Nov 2003, 09:17
Originally posted by Viking2
Darkhelm, I understand your frustration, however there is no need to swear in every other sentence... I'm only having a discussion here, there's no need to be so aggressive. I've done nothing to you.

At any rate, that one post was better. So you liked the demo. Good. However, most people didn't. Now I understand that an opinion derived from a personal experience is difficult to change. However, if most people didn't like it, I think even you have to admit there may be SOME things wrong with it. In fact, you know what I think? I think the power of suggestion is truly great. You said you played the demo and hated it at first. Then, you thought about it, and played it again, and liked it. That's because we all want it to be good. Seeing how many people ranted on stupidly about how much they hated it, stating the same arguments over and over didn't help. However, I think a good game shouldn't need the aid of the power of suggestion to seem good. I mean, if the initial reaction was bad, chances are, it was bad. This can be seen in many other positive threads that are springing up now, from people who thought the game was bad, and then they spent time modifying it, and played it again, until they convinced themselves they were having fun. That shouldn't be the case. At any rate, bring on the flamethrower... I'm ready for yah ;)

I didnt like the first deus ex when i bought it, played for 10 min, thought it was teh worst FPS i had played in a while, i even uninstalled it and let the box sit there for 5 months, before i figured i may aswell play it since i bought it, and after forcingmyslef past all the little things i didnt like about the game, it ended up being one of my favorite gaming experiences of all time.

Darkhelm
24th Nov 2003, 09:23
Viking, it's funny that you mention the power of suggestion, as I'm utterly convinced that many poor souls among you and your fellow bashers have fallen prey to exactly that.

This is the fork in the path my friend. We both loved Deus Ex, we both had really high hopes. We got the demo. We played it. We both were appalled by the changes done to it. Then comes the critical point. You move on and decide that you can't accept this game as a worthy successor to Deus Ex, you believe that people who still love this game now must be under some sad psychological effect that makes the like it just because they wished so hard they would like it. So there you go departing on that path.

I, however, after having reached those crossroads, after having been appalled by the changes at first (and i discount the default.ini things here), but then I started to realize that IS did not betray us, but I believe that they were sincerely following their vision for Deus Ex. It conflicts with yours, mate, but why should I care? I'm along for the ride, and you can accuse me of being brainwashed but that only makes me pity you more because I know you will miss out on this journey.

So, there you have it. And no f-words involved. Not sure you like this post any better though :p

ABRAXAAS
24th Nov 2003, 09:26
Originally posted by Darkhelm
Viking, it's funny that you mention the power of suggestion, as I'm utterly convinced that many poor souls among you and your fellow bashers have fallen prey to exactly that.

This is the fork in the path my friend. We both loved Deus Ex, we both had really high hopes. We got the demo. We played it. We both were appalled by the changes done to it. Then comes the critical point. You move on and decide that you can't accept this game as a worthy successor to Deus Ex, you believe that people who still love this game now must be under some sad psychological effect that makes the like it just because they wished so hard they would like it. So there you go departing on that path.

I, however, after having reached those crossroads, after having been appalled by the changes at first (and i discount the default.ini things here), but then I started to realize that IS did not betray us, but I believe that they were sincerely following their vision for Deus Ex. It conflicts with yours, mate, but why should I care? I'm along for the ride, and you can accuse me of being brainwashed but that only makes me pity you more because I know you will miss out on this journey.

So, there you have it. And no f-words involved. Not sure you like this post any better though :p

I LOVE YOU!!:D

Viking2
24th Nov 2003, 09:38
Originally posted by Darkhelm
Viking, it's funny that you mention the power of suggestion, as I'm utterly convinced that many poor souls among you and your fellow bashers have fallen prey to exactly that.

This is the fork in the path my friend. We both loved Deus Ex, we both had really high hopes. We got the demo. We played it. We both were appalled by the changes done to it. Then comes the critical point. You move on and decide that you can't accept this game as a worthy successor to Deus Ex, you believe that people who still love this game now must be under some sad psychological effect that makes the like it just because they wished so hard they would like it. So there you go departing on that path.

I, however, after having reached those crossroads, after having been appalled by the changes at first (and i discount the default.ini things here), but then I started to realize that IS did not betray us, but I believe that they were sincerely following their vision for Deus Ex. It conflicts with yours, mate, but why should I care? I'm along for the ride, and you can accuse me of being brainwashed but that only makes me pity you more because I know you will miss out on this journey.

So, there you have it. And no f-words involved. Not sure you like this post any better though :p

Excellent. I'll say... Well, it seems there is a worthy adversary here, one who is willing to put things in a different way than a rant, as many people have done so far (on both sides).

My only reply, however, is this: How is it that those who went on that first road outnumber those who went by the second road so much? Tastes are tastes, I agree. However, it seems that so many people agree with my view. My outrage is currently so great that I am questioning whether or not I will buy this game, even if it does have the words Deus Ex on it. You seem to be able to get past that, and I almost envy you for it; however, if indeed I am wrong, and the journey that I will miss will in fact be a great one, why is it that so many are of my opinion? Are the things I need to get past really that small? Or do you need a dedication and faith of iron, such as what you and Abraxaas I believe have been blessed with?

At any rate, it's nice that such bitterly opposing groups can coexist. Hell, judging by the threads, I think putting ten people from each side in the same room would result in the bloodbath of the century.

ABRAXAAS
24th Nov 2003, 09:43
QUOTE:
___________________________________________________
My only reply, however, is this: How is it that those who went on that first road outnumber those who went by the second road so much? Tastes are tastes, I agree. However, it seems that so many people with my view
___________________________________________________

ooo i can answer this...because right after the initial release of teh demo there was a bunch of the hardcore, high hope individuals slamming the game, it not only scared away people that had good things to say, but through the power of "SUGESTION" its snowballed. ;)

Viking2
24th Nov 2003, 09:51
I don't get your logic, abraxaas.

ooo i can answer this...because right after the initial release of teh demo there was a bunch of the hardcore, high hope individuals slamming the game, it not only scared away people that had good things to say, but through the power of "SUGESTION" its snowballed.
If anything, the people who disagree would not be scared away. It's not like anyone would knock them out if they did disagree. They're miles away from any other fellow forumer (I don't even know if that's a word, lol). In fact, the people ranting on and on about how bad the game is would cause these people who liked the demo to be even more aggressive, which, judging by the nature of your posts, is the case with you. At any rate, I'm not trying to offend anyone here, but facts are facts. Just look at any of the numerous polls on the subject.

Darkhelm
24th Nov 2003, 09:52
Viking, I think I stated it clearly enough. The fact that the majority of fans cries out over the monster that IS has created does not at all indicate to me that IW is a failed experiment. It shows me that it is an experiment, allright. It shows me that IS did not just linger in a Max-Payn-esque way to have a guaranteed financial success. (this is where you all err in, I think. (notice the concession right there) IS took risks, they did not dumb it down so that they could earn millions more)
They changed the game into a direction that we now see alienates a lot of formerly avid fans and turns them into avid opponents of their new vision for the Deus Ex universe.

I quick look at the list of complains confirms my suspicions. This is not about technical errors, this is not about dumb AI or shooting the same guy 20 times to kill him. This is about wanting Deus Ex 1 back, this is like wanting to watch Empire Strikes Back for the first time, wanting to get the same exact kick you felt when you watched the Matrix for the first time. This is about reliving the past.

But IS doesn't rock the way, mate.

This is the core issue at hand. You want repetition. You don't want progress. For you, simplifying things means anti-progress, appealing to toddlers or whatever group of people makes up the potential XBOX user.

Sorry, Viking, but I don't consider myself brainwashed. I consider you, however, a victim of years of foolishly high expectations, which brings me back to my initial post in this thread...

ABRAXAAS
24th Nov 2003, 09:56
YAY! he gots good words.

Viking2
24th Nov 2003, 11:17
Foolishly high expectations? Well, after seeing what the game is, I think that they have been foolishly high. I shouldn't have expected a good sequel to a legendary game. That rarely happens.

At any rate, the problem with this is that, although IS did make changes, and they didn't keep the same game, and they didn't really make a sequel but "a new game", they just made the wrong choices. It's not like I wanted the same game over and over again. I admit many of the complainers here wanted just that. I wouldn't have complained to that, but I would have liked a different game better. However, I have put this up on many threads: there's certain factors to a game that don't make it shine, but which have the power to take away from the game's merits if they are put out of the game altogether. That is, just about all the changes they made in the game that people are complaining about now. It's not just nostalgia. A new game can come in many ways. I mean, think about what you're saying. In order to be different, DX:IW has to "simplify" things? To make them more "organic"? What the hell? The game's strong points are meant to give it its own identity. The ability to solve things and play through the game in such a unique open-ended way was enough to not only give it an identity separate from the original Deus Ex, but from the rest of the gaming world to date. It would make the game go above and beyond anything Deus Ex 1 ever dreamed of being. They didn't have to take away certain features that are taken for granted, but which can harm the gameplay if taken away. I mean, generic ammo, no reloading, bad damage levels, and so on... Those things weren't needed at all to get a different feel from Deus Ex. Some things were, like the HUD and the inventory (though the HUD could have been less intrusive by default, while retaining its general apperance) neede. You know, the things that the player would be in constant contact with. Maybe those would change the look of things overall. They didn't have to change things like the ammo/shooting system though, because those are pretty standard everywhere. Changing that is just going to the extreme. They had a great idea initially, with the plot and general gameplay and all, and then they took away all these seemingly little things, and those things left some pretty big blotches on the face of the game. The better aspects of it are just lessened unnecessarily. In short, the decisions the devs took to make the game different from everything else were not the only ones. They chose the wrong ones. I understand that some people, the more optimistic people, may look over the stains that these things left on the game and appreciate the better aspects of it. However, imagine how much better it would be if you didn't have to look over anything, or get used to anything. Wouldn't that be better?

Darkhelm
24th Nov 2003, 11:23
Yes, it would be better, Viking!

Sorry, but I must cop out of this debate for now, it's 5 AM :D

Nice discussing this with you, though. I'm glad we both managed to stay civil doing it, as it should be :)

Viking2
24th Nov 2003, 11:33
lol, I better go too... Jesus, I can't believe I stayed up all night arguing in a forum about a game that's not out yet. lol :D

MonkeyLungs
24th Nov 2003, 11:53
Originally posted by Viking2
[B]We "flamers" just vented our anger after we played the demo. It was the climax of literally months of doubt, since we'd been given certain clues as to what the final game might be like- basically, just not a Deus Ex game.

Hell, I went into a rage. Good thing there wasn't an axe or something nearby. I'd have been the first beserkir maniac to murder a team of developers over a demo.

take your punk ass down to austin texas with your axe and i bet you get knocked the **** out or shot by some texas cop long before you ever even get a chance to get your ass kicked at ion storm headquarters by the devs for threatening them with an axe ...


if i were the devs i'd start ip logging people and sending the death threats to the police and the fbi -- nothing will happen to the people who made the threats beyond questioning but they WILL be databased as having made a death threat against another human being ... i'd also send formal complaint letters to peoples isp's and get their service shut down for making death threats over the internet ...

Tenkahubu
24th Nov 2003, 18:30
1) I dont think any of the threats are serious, nor do the developers come here often enough to even notice them.

2) It's nice to see a thread come to a peaceful end for a change. Viking- I agree that the demo shows several steps backward in terms of combat, but it seems fairly obvious that the initial backlash was due mainly to people's sheeplike tendency to follow the leader and also sheer love of whining. Everyone loves to whine, why not admit it?
My personal whines are that you cant climb through windows properly, and I've found collision detection bad too.

PS What did you do that was so naughty?

3) I cant wait until the flaming hordes have run out of steam and these boards can get back to discussion, as we have seen here. I reckon it will take another fortnight. Then the game will be released and we will have to deal with a new batch.

OrioTecc
24th Nov 2003, 19:01
Originally posted by ABRAXAAS
QUOTE:it not only scared away people that had good things to say, but through the power of "SUGESTION" its snowballed. ;)

very true. atleast in my case. i, like many did grow on IW and found it to b a great game after being a tad disappointed atfirst.

i said this once in one thread, but moments later, the flamewarbroke out, and i got fed up with it EXTREMELY fast. so i just laid low, and chose not to take part of it. it was bad enough as it was. now, i dunno bout other people, but i do think there r others who did the same thing.

now im just waiting for the uberpissed people to move along from the IW forum, as they obviously hate it, and does not really contribute to anything, so that the ones who like it, can get together and use this forum for what it was intended.

Amorpheus
24th Nov 2003, 19:27
Originally posted by Viking2
My only reply, however, is this: How is it that those who went on that first road outnumber those who went by the second road so much?Easy: people hate change. :)

Cybersurfer
24th Nov 2003, 20:25
Originally posted by Amorpheus
Easy: people hate change. :)

I could deal with change, but the way i see it, its way passed change :rolleyes: