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View Full Version : It will no doubt be a great game, but don't expect many sales!



veqryn
24th Nov 2003, 07:20
As the proud owner of a very expensive laptop (over $3000), outfitted with the Geforce 4 GO 64mb ddr (very good for a laptop), along with a 1.7 P4, and 512 mb DDR ram, I must say I was disappointed that the demo would not run on my system. Apparently my card doesn't have 1.1 pixel shaders. But quite frankly, neither does anyone I know, or the mainstream gamer. I have been looking forward to your game Ion Storm, and I find it very unfortunate that I will be unable to play it. There is no need to inform me that I should upgrade my card, because in a laptop it is one of the best, and even if I wanted to, I couldn't, since laptops can't be upgraded in that way. While the the mainstream gamer will be wanting this game for their desktop, and therefore have the option of upgrading, just how many do you think will because of, or in time for your game? Direct X 9 (and 8 right?) fully compliant cards have hardly penetrated the market, so I hope you don't count on too many sales.

MaxxQ
24th Nov 2003, 07:35
Originally posted by veqryn
There is no need to inform me that I should upgrade my card, because in a laptop it is one of the best, and even if I wanted to, I couldn't, since laptops can't be upgraded in that way.

Fallacy #1.

Both Alienware and, I believe, Sony, have recently introduced upgradeable laptops.


While the the mainstream gamer will be wanting this game for their desktop, and therefore have the option of upgrading, just how many do you think will because of, or in time for your game? Direct X 9 (and 8 right?) fully compliant cards have hardly penetrated the market, so I hope you don't count on too many sales.

Fallacy#2.

A GeForce 3 is capable of running the game (DirectX 8 compliant) and has been around for a couple of years now, and can be had for fairly cheap (well under $100).

Jesus, P.I.
24th Nov 2003, 07:40
Originally posted by veqryn
Direct X 9 (and 8 right?) fully compliant cards have hardly penetrated the market, so I hope you don't count on too many sales.

In the world of computers a couple of years is a VERY long time.

I agree with you in principle, though. Reading around, there are lots of people who either can't play the game or don't want to after the demo fiasco. Whether these combined groups can significantly dent sales is something only time wil tell.

UnConeD
24th Nov 2003, 07:43
The same happened when 3Dfx released its Voodoo3 cards. The cards didn't have support for 32-bit or > 256x256 textures. 3Dfx decided that this wasn't necessary because games wouldn't use that sort of stuff in the coming years.

The result was tons of computers with subpar 3D hardware that forced developers to spend tons of time making sure it worked on those outdated cards.
nVidia's TNT2 kicked Voodoo's ass in every aspect at that time, and once games stepped away from the Voodoo's limitations, the results were great. This was around the time when Serious Sam came out, which was one of the first games to use huge textures.

Now nVidia did the same when they released the Geforce 4 GO and Geforce 4 MX without features that mattered. Anyone could've predicted that pixel shaders would finally get used a lot in games. After all, they are quite a revolutionary change in the design of 3D accelerators... a non-pixelshader card is a 'stupid' machine that can't do anything but push pixels in a certain way. With pixel-shaders, the card becomes programmable up to the pixel level, allowing for much more effects that simply can't be done at non-slideshow speeds on older cards.

Reviewers have been mentioning this everywhere by the way, yet people still buy those cards because they probably expect nVidia to produce quality stuff.
Sorry, but that's the way it is.

NamelessOne
24th Nov 2003, 07:58
Originally posted by UnConeD
The same happened when 3Dfx released its Voodoo3 cards. The cards didn't have support for 32-bit or > 256x256 textures. 3Dfx decided that this wasn't necessary because games wouldn't use that sort of stuff in the coming years.

The result was tons of computers with subpar 3D hardware that forced developers to spend tons of time making sure it worked on those outdated cards.
nVidia's TNT2 kicked Voodoo's ass in every aspect at that time, and once games stepped away from the Voodoo's limitations, the results were great. This was around the time when Serious Sam came out, which was one of the first games to use huge textures.

Now nVidia did the same when they released the Geforce 4 GO and Geforce 4 MX without features that mattered. Anyone could've predicted that pixel shaders would finally get used a lot in games. After all, they are quite a revolutionary change in the design of 3D accelerators... a non-pixelshader card is a 'stupid' machine that can't do anything but push pixels in a certain way. With pixel-shaders, the card becomes programmable up to the pixel level, allowing for much more effects that simply can't be done at non-slideshow speeds on older cards.

Reviewers have been mentioning this everywhere by the way, yet people still buy those cards because they probably expect nVidia to produce quality stuff.
Sorry, but that's the way it is.

Its the name I'm afraid. Ask a non-tech person which is better, a Geforce 4 MX or a Geforce 3Ti? Most of them will say Geforce 4, because of the higher number, but the Geforce 3 has more features and is a better card.

ThorsHamburger
24th Nov 2003, 08:05
I expect many Xbox sales, and really that seems to bewhat matters most now. PC...im not sure how it will do.

MonkeyLungs
24th Nov 2003, 11:41
most game players don't even bother to come to read these forums so the views being represented on these forums is not indicative of the populace of gaming players as a whole .. time will tell how the game sells and it will have ALOT more to do with marketing, and magazine and website reviews than anything written on this site by the hardcore fans .. the hardcore fans who take the time to register for website after website to post and talk about games are not the majority, they are barely even a blip on the ******** radar ....

exo
24th Nov 2003, 16:50
LMAO

I love this topic, it's gold!

A fan yet a jerk at the same time, priceless, I bet they can't decide whether to love you or hate you.

This game has become a bargain bin game for me, when it hits the bin I'll get it then.

Sorry I'm not a fan of console tailored games ported over the pc.

dirigimaster
24th Nov 2003, 16:59
Originally posted by veqryn
As the proud owner of a very expensive laptop (over $3000), outfitted with the Geforce 4 GO 64mb ddr (very good for a laptop), along with a 1.7 P4, and 512 mb DDR ram, I must say I was disappointed that the demo would not run on my system. Apparently my card doesn't have 1.1 pixel shaders. But quite frankly, neither does anyone I know, or the mainstream gamer. I have been looking forward to your game Ion Storm, and I find it very unfortunate that I will be unable to play it. There is no need to inform me that I should upgrade my card, because in a laptop it is one of the best, and even if I wanted to, I couldn't, since laptops can't be upgraded in that way. While the the mainstream gamer will be wanting this game for their desktop, and therefore have the option of upgrading, just how many do you think will because of, or in time for your game? Direct X 9 (and 8 right?) fully compliant cards have hardly penetrated the market, so I hope you don't count on too many sales.

A)Laptops aren't for gaming generally
B)DX8.1 has been around for a while, so have cards for it (3rd generation now)
C)Splinter Cell uses Pixel shaders, while it will run on a pre-dx8 card, you cannot finish the game without it.

veqryn
24th Nov 2003, 23:55
Well, Maxxq, you are correct that Alienware, and actually Dell, both now make a laptop with an upgradeable video card, but those laptops are very recent developements (like in the last 2 months), and would only account for less then .01% of laptop sales, and less for whats currently out there. Secondly, I did mention that directx 8 so it isn't a fallacy.

JesusPI if you would simply read the post below your's (thx UnConeD) you would see why what you said simply isn't the case. Both ATI and nVidia have 'mainstream' versions of their cards, the versions that release for less then $250, and don't include any support for EITHER direct x 8 or 9.

ThorsHamburger and MonkeyLungs are both right, I am referring to PC sales not xbox sales, and the people who bother to register on any publishers forums for a game not yet released is a hardcore gamer. Despite the fact that the morrowind forums were filled to the brim with PC fans, and full of posts saying how the PC version was better, Bethesda actually ended up selling just as many copies to the xbox as the pc (not including expansions).

Lastly, dirigimaster, yes, laptops aren't built from the bottom up as gaming machines, but neither are most desktops (don't you see my point yet???). Read UnConeD's post to understand why 3rd generation cards still don't support direct x 8 or 9. And lastly, I don't give a rat's ass about splinter cells' requirements.

Viking2
25th Nov 2003, 00:01
Originally posted by MonkeyLungs
most game players don't even bother to come to read these forums so the views being represented on these forums is not indicative of the populace of gaming players as a whole .. time will tell how the game sells and it will have ALOT more to do with marketing, and magazine and website reviews than anything written on this site by the hardcore fans .. the hardcore fans who take the time to register for website after website to post and talk about games are not the majority, they are barely even a blip on the ******** radar ....
So what the hell are you doing here? If this whole community doesn't mean anything, then there really is no point in posting, is there? We're not "hardcore fans". Just people who are looking forward to, or not looking forward to, this sequel. You don't have to be very hardcore to do that.

NamelessOne
25th Nov 2003, 00:03
Originally posted by veqryn


JesusPI if you would simply read the post below your's (thx UnConeD) you would see why what you said simply isn't the case. Both ATI and nVidia have 'mainstream' versions of their cards, the versions that release for less then $250, and don't include any support for EITHER direct x 8 or 9.
the pc (not including expansions).


Incorrect. Ati's lowest end desktop graphics card for sale is a Radeon 9100/8500. Which has support for Directx 8.1.

And nVidias new Geforce FX lineup has Directx9 support on every card (desite the fact that it runs any DirectX 9 effects extremely poorly).

MonkeyLungs
25th Nov 2003, 00:52
Originally posted by Viking2
So what the hell are you doing here? If this whole community doesn't mean anything, then there really is no point in posting, is there? We're not "hardcore fans". Just people who are looking forward to, or not looking forward to, this sequel. You don't have to be very hardcore to do that.

it's a place for those of us who are more attached to the game or gaming in general than the general public is to come and talk about the game .. that's all ... which coincidetally makes us at least a little bit 'hardcore' for lack of a better term ... a standard, casual gamer wouldn't ever bother to read and register and post on this forum ...

you flew right past the crux of my statement which is: the people here on this message board and other video game message boards are not indicative of the general video game buying public, so for anyone to make some kind of prediction on sales of the game based on the fervor one can read on these boards is completely out of whack with reality ...