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View Full Version : Do any of you honestly think being multiplatform had anything to do with this??



Devin the Dude
23rd Nov 2003, 16:42
Reloads
Location damage
unified ammo
stats
no stats
no jurnal
no leaning

Klown
23rd Nov 2003, 16:47
you forgot giant font and a console like interface

Devin the Dude
23rd Nov 2003, 16:49
That stuff is obvious.

Neutrino
23rd Nov 2003, 16:50
Absolutely not..

My reasons are that I have played Bethesda's Morrowind RPG game on the PC, and it was released on the PC and the XBOX just like Deus Ex IW...And the game turned out great... We had stats, crouching, walking, running, stealthy stalking, journal, ect....

What we are experiencing here is mass ignorance and insanity from some of the PC players..

F3nyx
23rd Nov 2003, 17:00
Right, so what excuse would you give, Neutrino? I agree that many of those things are perfectly workable on a console. Are they trying to slim down the interface to essentials, or what?

Devin the Dude
23rd Nov 2003, 17:04
In deffence of PC gamers the first thing you have to deal with is the UI. So if that stinks of a console port it natural to question other stuff even if I would bet most people buying the game for the Xbox want all of the above.

MrRoboto1024
23rd Nov 2003, 17:13
Reloads-no

Location damage-yes. cant aim well on xbox, so they took it out for that. but i believe it will be back in the final pc product

unified ammo-no

no skills-partially. they had some good gameplay reasons, but i think it would have been a hassle to make it on xbox

no journal-yes, because it would have been a hassle to look through on xbox

no leaning-yes, not enough buttons. i know there are xbox games in which you can lean, but i think the buttons that would have been leaning were used on augs.

Neutrino
23rd Nov 2003, 17:15
Originally posted by F3nyx
Right, so what excuse would you give, Neutrino? I agree that many of those things are perfectly workable on a console. Are they trying to slim down the interface to essentials, or what?

I cannot read IONSTORM developer minds... I can only guess... And here it is...

1... Software design is about tradeoffs... If you want to use more realistic physics, shadowing, AI algorithms, and story plotline branches then you have to give something else up.. There is only so much CPU time available, at any given instance, for any realtime game.

2... The IONSTORM software developers are not as good as the Bethesda software developers...

3. A few "poor?" design decisions....

Dr. Lobotomy
23rd Nov 2003, 17:18
Originally posted by Devin the Dude
Reloads
Location damage
unified ammo
stats
no stats
no jurnal
no leaning

No, Look at Perfect Dark on the N64, a really crappy console performance-wise. And the N64 was seen as "kiddy" and had plenty of dumbed down games but PD was far more complex that it's predecessor, the vaunted Goldeneye.

Apart from stats, PD had everything that DX:IW doesn't have, even text font that wasn't sized for blind people. And that darn game came out years ago.

IS screwed the pooch big time on DX:IW on both PC *and* Xbox.

F3nyx
23rd Nov 2003, 17:26
I cannot read IONSTORM developer minds... I can only guess... And here it is...

1... Software design is about tradeoffs... If you want to use more realistic physics, shadowing, AI algorithms, and story plotline branches then you have to give something else up.. There is only so much CPU time available, at any given instance, for any realtime game.

2... The IONSTORM software developers are not as good as the Bethesda software developers...

3. A few poor design decisions....
Harsh guesses.

Neutrino
23rd Nov 2003, 17:35
Originally posted by F3nyx
Harsh guesses.

Not at all.... Considering the founders of Bethesda were MIT computer engineers (I believe), then having IONSTORM developers being a little less then the top developers is not a bad thing..

What is a "poor" design decision for one person, maybe not be "poor" for another... I never used leaning, so I could care less whether that is in the game or not..

Warbie
23rd Nov 2003, 17:59
MrRoboto1024 wrote:

"Location damage-yes. cant aim well on xbox, so they took it out for that. but i believe it will be back in the final pc product "

Rubbish, many console shooters have locational damage. It is possible to be very accurate with a joypad ........ take Halo, where headshots arn't too hard to make. Sure it's not as easy as with a mouse, but quick aiming is only really useful in online play (certainly not in a game like Deus Ex - especially with the questionable AI)

I'd rather have the immersion that analogue control (using a keyboard to move sucks :/), rumble and trigger buttons provide for single player games (not to mention a big tv :) )

The only thing that would have to change for the XBox is the interface.

"no skills-partially. they had some good gameplay reasons, but i think it would have been a hassle to make it on xbox "

"no journal-yes, because it would have been a hassle to look through on xbox "

Naw - there are already XBox games that handle both of these with ease.

"no leaning-yes, not enough buttons. i know there are xbox games in which you can lean, but i think the buttons that would have been leaning were used on augs."

There's plenty of buttons :)

(not an XBox fan boy btw lol - just disagree)

MrRoboto1024
23rd Nov 2003, 18:14
I can see most of your points but i do still believe that the xbox controller is responsible for the lack of leaning.

dx1fan
23rd Nov 2003, 18:32
To quote myself from another thread

http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?threadid=28010

Does anyone remeber how valuable the data cubes were in dx1?You could find lots of very usefull information in them to help you do various things in your quest.Bank account numbers to log into atms without hacking and damaging them or risking getting caught.E-mail logins so you could read the e-mail logs without the time limit when hacking,keycodes to doors to open them and save you a few multitools.Security computer logins that save you from the hacking time limit so you could scope the place with the cameras and reset defense turrets to shoot the baddies.

Now in dx2 there is no security logins,no bank account numbers..and I also suspect(but have no proof)no computers with e-mail logins.Seems to be all replaced by hacking.Now the lowly data cube is reduced to being just another supplier of trivial information.There is one in the restroom with the cats.Its located on the back of the toilet.It says to feed the greasel live cats or microwave dead ones and feed it.This is just one example of how the small things, that some people think are insignificant, really made the game more enjoyable because it added alot to gameplay for most of us.


I beleive that all of this was taken out for the simple fact that the xbox does not have a keyboard or mouse to navigate such interfaces.

F3nyx
23rd Nov 2003, 18:37
That's a good point...

tas42
23rd Nov 2003, 18:38
Originally posted by Devin the Dude
Reloads
Location damage
unified ammo
stats
no stats
no jurnal
no leaning

reloads, no they it in some xbox games, or so i hear
location damage: this is getting repetitive, but THERE IS LOCATION DAMAGE IN THE GAME. the sniper riffle will take people down with one shot. perhaphs it was done like that to make up for the unified ammo.
unified ammo: probably
no stats: doubt it, but possible. IW is designed to focus more biomods. if you want to be stealthy, instead of upgrading the appriiate skill, you will need to get and upgrade the approiate biomods
no journal: definitly
no leaning: again doubtfull. i've heard its in some consoul games


anyway, there are obviously some things that are in there because of the consol version, but i think its more a matter of getting used to.

nimbus
23rd Nov 2003, 18:52
As I recall, the N64 pad had nine accessible buttons (including start) when playing Goldeneye. FOUR of those were used on movement/aiming (this was pre-dual stick days, folks). That leaves five buttons to access menus, change weapons, reload, lean, etc.

The Xbox controller has, what, 12 accessible buttons, AND a second stick, for a net total of seven more accessible buttons. And both had a four-way pad, although the Xbox one is infinitely more reachable during play than the N64 one was.

So you're going to actually sit there and tell me with a straight face that they couldn't find a way to fit on a feature that's been included in other FPS console games for six years now?
:confused:

MrRoboto1024
23rd Nov 2003, 19:03
just out of curiosity, which buttons *do* the xbox use to lean, regularly?

i cant imagine a convenient way of doing it with this setup, which i may be mistaken, but think is standard:
left stick:look
right stick:move
right trigger:shoot

what is lean? d pad? doenst seem very accessible to me but i could be wrong

Warbie
23rd Nov 2003, 19:09
The d-pad would be ok, or you could hold down a button and use the analogue stick (analogue leaning mmmmmmmmmm :))

(Analogue is the way forward - using a keyboard for movement isn't good enough any more. You may not like Mario 64, but that's how movement should be done.)

Devin the Dude
23rd Nov 2003, 20:20
I'm one of the not so rare people (as you will see in a couple months here) that prefer FPS on the Xbox for the sake of analog movement, HEC's, vibration, and trigger buttons. I have seen everything on the Xbox except stats. RTCW had leaning, Rainbow Six 3 has leaning, RTCW has a journal, I have seen no games with unified ammo, all FPS I have played have location damage, some like Soldiers of Fortune emphasis it more. The only reason I was thinking about getting this game on the PC was my girl has a nice rig (nice rack too) and for hacking. If PC gamers have any right to be peeved its the lack of keyboard hacking, and the UI. The Xbox has 12 buttons and a control pad that pan be pushed in 8 directions. Thats 20 buttons, the average owner is 29, Finding Nemo on the Xbox sells best on the PC and Xbox for one obvious reason (their kids). If Stormy were to have attached a 10 dollar keyboad rebate to the Xbox version and made it a pure PC port the game would have still sold 300k+ plus on the Xbox and they would have preferred that over the game being "simplified".

Jesus, P.I.
23rd Nov 2003, 20:32
Originally posted by tas42
location damage: this is getting repetitive, but THERE IS LOCATION DAMAGE IN THE GAME. the sniper riffle will take people down with one shot. perhaphs it was done like that to make up for the unified ammo.

It should not take a sniper rifle to achieve a one-shot kill. Even the most primitive pistols are capable of killing in one shot if fired at the target's head from ten feet away. Yes, location damage is there, but for some reason the developers want to make the pistol too weak to achieve an instant headshot kill.

ThorsHamburger
23rd Nov 2003, 20:36
Originally posted by Jesus, P.I.
Yes, location damage is there, but for some reason the developers want to make the pistol too weak to achieve an instant headshot kill.

The reason as one of the developers stated for the weakness, was to draw out the battle a little longer. IMO a cheap solution. If they wanted to draw out the battle they should have created AI that was smarter, capable of moving, ducking etc. not just standing there and taking headshots. This is defiately a compromise due to console. Better AI would have been more difficult to battle with a gamepad.

SK Denton
23rd Nov 2003, 20:42
Multiplatforming...oh excuse me that is a farse. Focusing all their efforts on the xbox (that is more like it), was mostly responsible for this fiasco. Just read the sig...

tas42
23rd Nov 2003, 20:46
your right, its totaly unrealistic that a pistol wouldn't kill someone with one shot. ulike

:the realism in being able to carry a shotgun, pistol, 10 grenades, 10 medical kits, 10 spider grenades, a flame thrower, a sub machine gun, 10 bioelectric cell, 10 multitools, a rocket launcher, a crossbow and a sword. i guess you have an invisible wagon you take with you.

or the realixs in going a week or so without sleeping or eating

or being able to put a little blue canister in you (with no tools or surgery, or recovery time mind you), and gain magical powers

or even the whole premis of the game that the entire world would collapse and fall apart because the internet goes down.


but in all seriousness, don't get into whats real and not real, because 90% of the game is pure fiction, impossible, and just there for gameplay

ThorsHamburger
23rd Nov 2003, 20:51
Originally posted by SK Denton
Multiplatforming...oh excuse me that is a farse. Focusing all their efforts on the xbox (that is more like it), was mostly responsible for this fiasco. Just read the sig...

Yep, but it doesnt mean tha the PC version has to be a right off. What they need to do is now focus of fine tuning and balancing the game for the PC. Obviously the Xbox and PC play differently, so each version needs to be fine tuned for each specific platform and control hardware. It seems to have not been done for the PC version. Little things, the last 10% can make all the difference.
Little things like the proper amount of firction between a wooden box and the concrete ground. To much and it feel unrealist and to heavy to move. To little and and the box slides out from under you to easily making using it to frustrating. All those little things can make a huge difference in the end that seem to have been overlooked.

Jesus, P.I.
23rd Nov 2003, 20:51
Originally posted by tas42

but in all seriousness, don't get into whats real and not real, because 90% of the game is pure fiction, impossible, and just there for gameplay

Forgive me if I'm not too clear on what I said, but I don't think I mentioned realism. I don't really give a rat's ass about realism. What I care about is good gameplay, and IMHO you can't have good gameplay if the game forces you either to beef up with biomods or use more powerful weapons to be effectively stealthy.

tas42
23rd Nov 2003, 21:03
your forgiven :D

i know what your saying, but i just think they wanted to make the different weapons have more pronounced differences, especialy considering that skills were taken out, and the ammo unified. in DX the this was done by having separate pistol/riffle skills, and in weapon mods. in IW its going to be done (i think) through more specialized weapons. but anyway, the dev's have said that damage values are going to be looked at as a result of feedback from the demo.

SK Denton
23rd Nov 2003, 21:07
Originally posted by Jesus, P.I.
Forgive me if I'm not too clear on what I said, but I don't think I mentioned realism. I don't really give a rat's ass about realism. What I care about is good gameplay, and IMHO you can't have good gameplay if the game forces you either to beef up with biomods or use more powerful weapons to be effectively stealthy.

Or you have to beat someone on the head while they scream for help until their head is nothing more than ground chuck...

or you have to light someone up with your portable electric chair and watch them scream in pain as their skin crackles and pops under the voltage and the expression on their face is so horrid that it will be forever etched in your mind.

Isn't IS's idea of stealth great?

Devin the Dude
24th Nov 2003, 18:03
Originally posted by ThorsHamburger
The reason as one of the developers stated for the weakness, was to draw out the battle a little longer. IMO a cheap solution. If they wanted to draw out the battle they should have created AI that was smarter, capable of moving, ducking etc. not just standing there and taking headshots. This is defiately a compromise due to console. Better AI would have been more difficult to battle with a gamepad.

You are console ignorant. They dont use gamepads anymore and Halo was considered the Ai King for some time. A pistol shot between the eyes kills anything without a helmet or active shield in Halo, and with the Alieans ducking rolling and taking cover its not easy to score. Halo 2 adds even more to the Ai. If you ask me what two shooters will have the best Ai next year I would say move over Halflife 2, and Doom 3. It will be Halo 2, and Far Cry.

The Glome
24th Nov 2003, 18:32
Have any of you looked at console games lately?

Console games aren't just about pushing switches and shooting demons anymore - In fact, i've played quite a few console games that are deeper than a lot of popular PC games.

I used to be a hardcore PC gamer, but I find console gaming to be much more accessible nowadays. I don't have to upgrade every 6 months; I can rent games; And i'm proud to say that I have mastered analog FPS controls.

I don't think that the Xbox is responsible for any of this so-called "dumbing down".. Simply because there is no need for anything to be dumbed down.

ThorsHamburger
24th Nov 2003, 18:45
Originally posted by Devin the Dude
You are console ignorant. They dont use gamepads anymore and Halo was considered the Ai King for some time. A pistol shot between the eyes kills anything without a helmet or active shield in Halo, and with the Alieans ducking rolling and taking cover its not easy to score. Halo 2 adds even more to the Ai. If you ask me what two shooters will have the best Ai next year I would say move over Halflife 2, and Doom 3. It will be Halo 2, and Far Cry.

Oh please, HALO had great AI:rolleyes: why becuse some magazine or reviewer said so. Halo's AI was alright but nothing amazing. King of AI, why because they moved around a little more than usual for a CONSOLE. Nothing new or amazing for a PC. Generally they just stood there and took fire and didnt pursue you if you got out of range, they moved slowly, anything they did was nothing new or extrordinary for PC.Dorry to burst your bubble. And even it was, it still would have been easier to attack them and fight them with a mouse and keyboard.
Console ignorant. Son Ive been playing consoles since the 70's with the very first Ataris and have had one every since. Currently own an Xbox(bought to play Halo and other FPS) PS2 since they first came out and a GC bought to play Metroid prime. Sorry im not in the know enought to know what you call those things for playing controllers/ gamepads...feel better now?
And the AI is not as challenging on coonsoles as it is on PC. The mouse and keyboard allows for much more precise and quicker control. End of story.
I recently played Halo PC on legendary and it was 10 times easier than when I played it on console. I would guess that most people would feel the same way.

HKRaven
24th Nov 2003, 19:04
Originally posted by ThorsHamburger
Oh please, HALO had great AI:rolleyes: why becuse some magazine or reviewer said so. Halo's AI was alright but nothing amazing. King of AI, why because they moved around a little more than usual for a CONSOLE. Nothing new or amazing for a PC. Generally they just stood there and took fire and didnt pursue you if you got out of range, they moved slowly, anything they did was nothing new or extrordinary for PC.Dorry to burst your bubble. And even it was, it still would have been easier to attack them and fight them with a mouse and keyboard.
Console ignorant. Son Ive been playing consoles since the 70's with the very first Ataris and have had one every since. Currently own an Xbox(bought to play Halo and other FPS) PS2 since they first came out and a GC bought to play Metroid prime. Sorry im not in the know enought to know what you call those things for playing controllers/ gamepads...feel better now?
And the AI is not as challenging on coonsoles as it is on PC. The mouse and keyboard allows for much more precise and quicker control. End of story.
I recently played Halo PC on legendary and it was 10 times easier than when I played it on console. I would guess that most people would feel the same way.


The HALO AI is 2 years old so compared it with the one from Medal Of Honor or RTCW and.....well :p PC games have tried to copy the Halo AI for sometime(Unreal 2 to mention one) but have ****ed up at every turn(enemies rolling of ledges and such). PC AI usualy sucks ass and is buggy as hell.... come to think of it i cant think of a single PC game with good AI :p

The damage in DX:IW depends on what difficulty you have. It works something like this(if i understood the .ini help right)

0.00(Bad)
1.00(avarage)
2.00(best but not 1 shot kill)

the handgun got these damages in the demo. I downed the first guard with 2 shoots to the head on Real. Also if you check the upgrade menu for the weapons you'll see that they all got a damage upgrade wich might lead to a 1-shoot kill.

[Difficulty]
; AI Damage multiplier - damage AIs take from player
Difficulty_AI_Damage_Easy__d=1.25
Difficulty_AI_Damage_Normal__d=1.0
Difficulty_AI_Damage_Hard__d=0.75
Difficulty_AI_Damage_Real__d=1.5
;
; Player Damage multiplier - damage player takes from AIs
Difficulty_Player_Damage_Easy__d=1.0
Difficulty_Player_Damage_Normal__d=1.0
Difficulty_Player_Damage_Hard__d=1.25
Difficulty_Player_Damage_Real__d=1.75
;
; 1.0 = base accuracy, 0.0 = wild, 2.0 = as accurate as it gets (not 100% perfect)
Difficulty_Accuracy_Easy__d=0.75
Difficulty_Accuracy_Normal__d=1.0
Difficulty_Accuracy_Hard__d=1.25
Difficulty_Accuracy_Real__d=1.0
;
; Ammo multiplier for difficulty levels
Difficulty_Ammo_Mult_Easy__d=1.0
Difficulty_Ammo_Mult_Normal__d=1.0
Difficulty_Ammo_Mult_Hard__d=0.95
Difficulty_Ammo_Mult_Real__d=0.75

RoachMojo
24th Nov 2003, 19:19
WTF is up with the "vibration" option if this is not a console port?

(May have been brought up before, sorry).

HKRaven
24th Nov 2003, 19:21
Well incase you didnt know there are alot of "force feedback"(vibaration) mouses for PC :p

HKRaven
24th Nov 2003, 19:23
O.K apperently changing the enemie Damage AI to 5 will give you 1 headshot kill and about 2 to the chest.

Devin the Dude
24th Nov 2003, 20:38
Originally posted by ThorsHamburger
Oh please, HALO had great AI:rolleyes: why becuse some magazine or reviewer said so. Halo's AI was alright but nothing amazing. King of AI, why because they moved around a little more than usual for a CONSOLE. Nothing new or amazing for a PC. Generally they just stood there and took fire and didnt pursue you if you got out of range, they moved slowly, anything they did was nothing new or extrordinary for PC.Dorry to burst your bubble. And even it was, it still would have been easier to attack them and fight them with a mouse and keyboard.
Console ignorant. Son Ive been playing consoles since the 70's with the very first Ataris and have had one every since. Currently own an Xbox(bought to play Halo and other FPS) PS2 since they first came out and a GC bought to play Metroid prime. Sorry im not in the know enought to know what you call those things for playing controllers/ gamepads...feel better now?
And the AI is not as challenging on coonsoles as it is on PC. The mouse and keyboard allows for much more precise and quicker control. End of story.
I recently played Halo PC on legendary and it was 10 times easier than when I played it on console. I would guess that most people would feel the same way.

Thou aren't console ignorant. When you word it the way you did it sure seems like it. Its the way you worded it. Not having the AI necessary for hostile NPC's to avoid being shot thus giving them the ability to take headshots based on the fact thats its tougher to do with a control pad just moved me as being out of touch.
Halo was a PC game in 2000 and is again now, so I dont see how anyone could say PC games dont have great AI. I think it was a pace setter for AI even if its been surpassed. 3 million sold on the Xbox later we look at it as being more of a console game obviously. So I cant fathom why AI would be altered to fit a platform who's flagship title had great AI and takes pride in improving its Ai next go around. The way you make the analog sticks more effective is not to make enemies dumber. I cant see a game developer being that ignorant. I dont know if any of the N64's shooters did this but Halo fooled a lot of people by slowing the aiming receptacle when it passes through a shootable target. Most Xbox owners, and even myself at one point will swear its bull***** but if you really take time to notice it you can see Halo cheats for you. Bungie gave the analog sticks an illusion of having a greater range of motion then they did. I have seen games copy this on the Xbox. Thats all Stormy had to do.

ThorsHamburger
24th Nov 2003, 21:08
I still dont think halo had great AI. IT seemed like it, but really the reason why the combat was great was how the devs used the AI that did exist. THe number of enemies, the varying methods needed to take out each enemy, and the placement and timing of the scripting of the attacks. Plus the balancing of the weapons,being able to only carry two weapons at a time automactically creates a sense of tension. But looking at the individual AI itself, wasnt that great. Take any of halos enemies 1 on 1 and they are nothing great. Taken as a whole and used properly they are great. Put any one of halos enemies one at a time into a PC game and you begin to see them for what they are.

MonkeyLungs
24th Nov 2003, 21:14
that little bit of auto targeting is pretty noticeable in multiplayer ... you have to get very close and then not overcompensate on your own and it will track to the target like a fraction of a mm .. i think it might have even been explained as being a part of master chief's advanced suit and a kind of targetting assistance .. it was much less effective in deathmatch but still noticeable ...

Pdizzle
24th Nov 2003, 21:14
I don't want to hear this crap about halo's AI being the best ever, I played the demo for PC, and it was nothing special. It was better than the DX:IW demo AI but that doesn't mean anything. PC have the capability to have better AI because they have more processing power and therefore more room to include complicated AI tasks.

Half-Life 1 has better AI than halo and it is about 5 years old now. The reason some console games have better AI than some PC games is bad development, not PCs being inferior. In fact PCs are technically supperior than console, this doesn't mean PC games are necessarily worse than console games, however it does mean that they technically have more potential to have a better game because a PC can handle the processing needs better. However in the future games will reach a plateau and look, and sound just like real life and have perfect AI so then both PC and console will be equal, until that day it wilkl be the same as it has been, PCs will have better technical aspects (and therefore have the capability to have potentially better games) than will consoles.

MonkeyLungs
24th Nov 2003, 21:21
Originally posted by ThorsHamburger
I still dont think halo had great AI. IT seemed like it, but really the reason why the combat was great was how the devs used the AI that did exist. THe number of enemies, the varying methods needed to take out each enemy, and the placement and timing of the scripting of the attacks. Plus the balancing of the weapons,being able to only carry two weapons at a time automactically creates a sense of tension. But looking at the individual AI itself, wasnt that great. Take any of halos enemies 1 on 1 and they are nothing great. Taken as a whole and used properly they are great. Put any one of halos enemies one at a time into a PC game and you begin to see them for what they are.

#1. there aren't really any games with any kind of impressive battle ai for their computer controlled npc's ... NONE .. not on console and not on pc

#2. there are not more instances of better combat ai npc's on pc than on xbox ..

#3. you are pulling all this speculation out of your anus and you think we are going to just believe it

#4. name some enemies in a some godly pc game that have such good one on one combat ai

#5. the ai in the original deus ex was slower than corky on heroin and qualudes, the ai in invisible war is a huge step up from deus ex so i fail to see the complaint when put into perspective of compairing invis war with deus ex

#6. do you like pie or cake?

ThorsHamburger
24th Nov 2003, 21:41
Originally posted by MonkeyLungs
#1. there aren't really any games with any kind of impressive battle ai for their computer controlled npc's ... NONE .. not on console and not on pc

#2. there are not more instances of better combat ai npc's on pc than on xbox ..

#3. you are pulling all this speculation out of your anus and you think we are going to just believe it

#4. name some enemies in a some godly pc game that have such good one on one combat ai

#5. the ai in the original deus ex was slower than corky on heroin and qualudes, the ai in invisible war is a huge step up from deus ex so i fail to see the complaint when put into perspective of compairing invis war with deus ex

#6. do you like pie or cake?

1. Vietcong,nolf2 just to name 2 off the top of my head. Better than console, move quicker, react faster. Devs know that a PC control setup is much superior to console controller/gamepad(in terms of reaction and precision) and they design the AI as such. This is no secret.
2.
3. Dont really care of you do beleive it, just play halo again and get to a part that isnt one of the big battles, where you just fight one enemy at a time, are they doing anything that hasnt been done of PC? Are they great individually. No. What are the best battles. When you are fighting many. One PC ai provides more of a challenege than a whole handle of console AI in ANY PC GAME.
4. ANY PC GAME has quicker reacting and more deadly AI than a console. Are you disputing the fact that the mouse/keyboard allows for quicker and more precise control over aiming than on console?
5. Im not comparing IW to the original. Im comparing IW to other shooters. In which case it fails miserably to give you any decent combat or action.
6. I like both.

Warbie
24th Nov 2003, 22:27
ThorsHamburger wrote:

"1. Vietcong,nolf2 just to name 2 off the top of my head. Better than console, move quicker, react faster. Devs know that a PC control setup is much superior to console controller/gamepad(in terms of reaction and precision) and they design the AI as such. This is no secret. "


Sorry - but both of those games are average at best, with nothing that makes them stand out from the average FPS, certainly not the AI. (NOLF 1 & 2 are just really bad Golden Eye clones)


ThorsHamburger wrote:

"One PC ai provides more of a challenege than a whole handle of console AI in ANY PC GAME. "


Name some, bet ya can't :) Having an enemy that can shoot at you quickly isn't good AI :/


ThorsHamburger wrote:

"4. ANY PC GAME has quicker reacting and more deadly AI than a console. Are you disputing the fact that the mouse/keyboard allows for quicker and more precise control over aiming than on console? "


It also makes aiming very easy ......... there's a reason why Halo is a great console game but an average/bad pc game. Single player pc shooters don't offer a challenge - aiming isn't hard, and the tension is lost. Even if you do die there's always 'quick load' (a sure sign of lazy game design)

Mouse and keyboard isn't a superior setup, just different. While I appreciate that it's a must for clan matches/tournies (the only gaming I find worthwhile on the pc) it certainly isn't for single player games, which are about immersion.

It's in single player games that pads are superior (imo of course). Moving with a keyboard can't comapre with analogue control, just as pushing a mouse button instead of squeezing a trigger button can't. The aiming is harder, bit with practise it's possible to be very accurate (harder doesn't mean worse)