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Sheepy_DeathStorm
23rd Nov 2003, 15:39
i come to these boards a week ago. i see nothing but optimisim about the forthcoming game. i've been on this board regularyl...until now. i'm thinking off just going away beacause it's too depressing. I haven't played the demo, but PLEASE TELL ME IT'S NOT TRUE PLEASE! PLEASE! SPARE ME! ISA ARE DOING THIS FOR THE BENTIFIT OF US CONSPIRACY THEORISTS, RIGHT? PLEASE YES THEY ARE. PLEASE.
i beg you.......

Elder
23rd Nov 2003, 15:53
All the negitivism is pretty typical upon the release of a demo in my experience....It was actually pretty similar with the Dx demo release...You should of been around for all the cryingabout the bugs, gfx and low FPS then...If you read thru the millions of posts here, at ions fourms and other sites...you will find most of the complaining surrounds the interface....which is not the interface of DX and takes time to learn....Ive played with the demo enough now where Its pretty easy to zip around and interact with the world of DX...Change is always hard and i personally liked the old DX hud/interface better...If you play the demo it is Dx heart and soul...its going to be a complex, engrossing visit back into the world of DX...

Neutrino
23rd Nov 2003, 16:15
I agree that judging the game by the demo is foolish and shortsighted.. Deus Ex is primarily about the storyline, plot twists, backstabbing, multiple story pathways to explore, and the augmentations that you find..These cannot possibly be demonstrated adequately in the DEMO..

People are going to miss out on the best part of game..

I agree on a couple of complaints on the boards(I haven't played the Demo), and here they are..
1. The Floaty feel is irritating, and needs to be fixed in a patch
2. Touching the ATM and assuming you are hacking it is absurd and needs to be fixed in a patch..

Eh, that's all for now...

:cool:

jaywalker2309
23rd Nov 2003, 16:25
Originally posted by Neutrino

2. Touching the ATM and assuming you are hacking it is absurd and needs to be fixed in a patch..

Eh, that's all for now...

:cool:

Thats cos in the demo you've been given the hacking ability automatically.. u dont get that in the main game til u 'acquire' it (and it aint legal).

The demo has had a lot of the game 'shifted' around to try and show little bits of it in the same level. Believe me, the full game will have you SO drawn into the story :)

Sheepy_DeathStorm
23rd Nov 2003, 18:19
im feeling considerably better after that. thanks guys.

Sense
23rd Nov 2003, 23:43
It really does suck, Sheepy.

NamelessOne
23rd Nov 2003, 23:50
Originally posted by jaycw2309
Believe me, the full game will have you SO drawn into the story :)

But thats just it. The story is being seen as the saving grace of this game, but before the demo was released we were assuming/expecting great gameplay too.

So who knows if the story will be great? Maybe it'll be simplified along with the interface.

Shinnosuke
24th Nov 2003, 00:10
Originally posted by NamelessOne
But thats just it. The story is being seen as the saving grace of this game, but before the demo was released we were assuming/expecting great gameplay too.

So who knows if the story will be great? Maybe it'll be simplified along with the interface.

Not just that. The demo itself shows that the story might well (I actually think it will) suck.

You start out choosing a character. it can only be a dumb looking jackass surfer or a shorthaired boyish looking woman. These are the great choices in character Warren promised us? impressive.

Then the demo starts. You walk 2 meters when suddenly the most campy sounding chinese woman tells you your complete mission and several ways of accomplishing it.
In Deus Ex this story would have been: 'you need a plane to get out of here'. after that mission statement you would be dropped in a big city in which you could figure everything out for yourself. Not here though.
You go into the bar' immediately--->cutscene about weapons. WTF? can't they have done this by actually addressing him and ingame? And even if after making the choice the first time one should be allowed to just walk through next time. But even better the choice should be there to barge in with your weaponry and take on possible guards they send at you.

I can go on mentioning all the examples in the demo but I think my point is clear.

The bad voice acting by the chinese woman isn't an exception. You and basically everyone else sound like complete morons who read the text for the first time. if this is how the story is going to be acted then it won't be immersive at all. DX1's acting might not have been brilliant but at least it did the job. Campy at times but at least enthusiastic. Not this bland ****eacting.

Everyone here is talking about the music, that it is so great. Well, sorry, but it isn't. The first game had a cool techno tune that actually had me listening to it in the menu for minutes. And sometimes in the game I would stand still just to listen. And that while I love Classical Music!. Here the developers tried to go much more classical with the track, but it starts out boring and bland and then turns into a LOTR Enya like chanting song. The first time I heard that was an asstwitching moment. Cringing in disgust i can tell you.

As my last point the physics. Look: it's great we are finally getting physics in game. but here, just like in max payne 2, they are just implemented crappily. Eveything seems to weigh far too little, you can throw big barrels skyhigh and very fast. But when that barrel then actually hits someone that person nudges slightly at most and tells you to stop.
I'm sorry, but wouldn't a real Deus Ex game incorporate the physics in a way that would add to the gameplay? Throwing barrels around a corner so people look that way at the sound perhaps, like they did with coins in NOLF2. Knocking people out with a wellaimed tvset to the head, or thrown from a roof.
I tried to take the first guard down by throwing stuff from the landing pad after taking the guards down first there. But no, he just mumbled: stop being annoying or something similar. Doesn't he even find it suspicious someone is on the prohibited panding pad bombarding him with barrels?

I could easily name many more things wrong with the game, but I'll leave that for another time :-)

A lot of it has been covered already, but lately the general concensus seems to be that the feel and the small gameplay changes are the only thing wrong with DX2. This is just incorrect, the whole game is wrong.

Especially XBOX players should shun this game like dog turds. If they buy this en masse and say it's the best thing ever they show that the best thing for them is to have ruined pc games. I am pretty sure they would also enjoy a good deus ex 2 more, just like us pc users. Oh well. Now it's just waiting till the first 9/10 and 10/10 from review sites and magazines pop up *sigh*

Sense
24th Nov 2003, 00:20
Originally posted by Shinnosuke
Not just that. The demo itself shows that the story might well (I actually think it will) suck.

You start out choosing a character. it can only be a dumb looking jackass surfer or a shorthaired boyish looking woman. These are the great choices in character Warren promised us? impressive.

Then the demo starts. You walk 2 meters when suddenly the most campy sounding chinese woman tells you your complete mission and several ways of accomplishing it.
In Deus Ex this story would have been: 'you need a plane to get out of here'. after that mission statement you would be dropped in a big city in which you could figure everything out for yourself. Not here though.
You go into the bar' immediately--->cutscene about weapons. WTF? can't they have done this by actually addressing him and ingame? And even if after making the choice the first time one should be allowed to just walk through next time. But even better the choice should be there to barge in with your weaponry and take on possible guards they send at you.

I can go on mentioning all the examples in the demo but I think my point is clear.

The bad voice acting by the chinese woman isn't an exception. You and basically everyone else sound like complete morons who read the text for the first time. if this is how the story is going to be acted then it won't be immersive at all. DX1's acting might not have been brilliant but at least it did the job. Campy at times but at least enthusiastic. Not this bland ****eacting.

Everyone here is talking about the music, that it is so great. Well, sorry, but it isn't. The first game had a cool techno tune that actually had me listening to it in the menu for minutes. And sometimes in the game I would stand still just to listen. And that while I love Classical Music!. Here the developers tried to go much more classical with the track, but it starts out boring and bland and then turns into a LOTR Enya like chanting song. The first time I heard that was an asstwitching moment. Cringing in disgust i can tell you.

As my last point the physics. Look: it's great we are finally getting physics in game. but here, just like in max payne 2, they are just implemented crappily. Eveything seems to weigh far too little, you can throw big barrels skyhigh and very fast. But when that barrel then actually hits someone that person nudges slightly at most and tells you to stop.
I'm sorry, but wouldn't a real Deus Ex game incorporate the physics in a way that would add to the gameplay? Throwing barrels around a corner so people look that way at the sound perhaps, like they did with coins in NOLF2. Knocking people out with a wellaimed tvset to the head, or thrown from a roof.
I tried to take the first guard down by throwing stuff from the landing pad after taking the guards down first there. But no, he just mumbled: stop being annoying or something similar. Doesn't he even find it suspicious someone is on the prohibited panding pad bombarding him with barrels?

I could easily name many more things wrong with the game, but I'll leave that for another time :-)

A lot of it has been covered already, but lately the general concensus seems to be that the feel and the small gameplay changes are the only thing wrong with DX2. This is just incorrect, the whole game is wrong.

Especially XBOX players should shun this game like dog turds. If they buy this en masse and say it's the best thing ever they show that the best thing for them is to have ruined pc games. I am pretty sure they would also enjoy a good deus ex 2 more, just like us pc users. Oh well. Now it's just waiting till the first 9/10 and 10/10 from review sites and magazines pop up *sigh*

*cosigns*

I Agree 100%.

Neutrino
24th Nov 2003, 00:34
Originally posted by Shinnosuke

A lot of it has been covered already, but lately the general concensus seems to be that the feel and the small gameplay changes are the only thing wrong with DX2. This is just incorrect, the whole game is wrong.




Is that balanced? The whole "game" (Demo) is wrong to you, and you can't find one thing to like in the DEMO?

If you listed some things that you liked in the Demo along with some of your complaints, I would have taken your arguments much more seriously.... But instead it's just an angry irrational biased post.

Sense, as usual you make no sense... and you just join the group of like minded people who agree with you... No matter how irrational it is.... When are you going to get a mind of your own?

Shinnosuke
24th Nov 2003, 00:48
Originally posted by Neutrino
Is that balanced? The whole "game" (Demo) is wrong to you, and you can't find one thing to like in the DEMO?

If you listed some things that you liked in the Demo along with some of your complaints, I would have taken your arguments much more seriously.... But instead it's just an angry irrational biased post.

Sense, as usual you make no sense... and you just join the group of like minded people who agree with you... No matter how irrational it is.... When are you going to get a mind of your own?

Hahahaha, angry irrational? I thought it was a well-written clear story of why I think that the controls are not the only bad thing about the game. I also told that most of the other stuff, including good parts, has largely been covered. I think you might just be a fanboy who doesn't like to see negative points raised about a game you will love regardless of what the developers do to it.
I hope I am wrong, and if I am wrong you will admit that I have the full right to voice my opinion about certain matters and that I did so in a clear non-angry post.
Also why attack Sense? He clearly just agrees with me. Does he have to write the small deviations in which his opinion differs from mine? that would make this forum cluttered with likeminded posts. Not very convenient, eh?

But sure I can tell you the things I liked about the demo. Here they are:
-the graphics are not complete crap, even though they look significantly less than early screenshots posted a long time ago.
-hmmmm. hmmmm. damn. nope. that's it I think.

There are so many games being released, many gems which never come to fruition because people focus so much on the hype games. Star Trek: elite force 2 and Chaser, Tron 2.0 are some of the games I enjoyed a lot this year. Neither were much better looking, if at all. Chaser had mediocre voiceacting and EF2 had a reasonably standard plot. Besides those small negative points the rest of the games was executed with a clear enthusiasm and the games were just fun to play. Something this demo was not.

Some people claim that after playing several times that they started to enjoy it a bit more. Well, I'm sorry but if it takes several times in an FPS (this is clearly not an rpg) then something is wrong.
Belgian radio once experimented in a similar matter with a song. They made a song which was clearly quite ****ty. Then they gave it loads of airtime on both radio and tv. The song became a success and ended on nr 1 in the belgian charts. In the rest of the world it logically bombed.
Playing the demo untill you start to enjoy it is almost exactly the same. It's like brussel sprouts. An 'acquired' taste. Well, I am sorry, but I want the taste to have at least some promise from the beginning. Only then do I have the will to invest time and effort into something I have to bloody pay for. m'kay?

Sense
24th Nov 2003, 00:58
Originally posted by Neutrino
Is that balanced? The whole "game" (Demo) is wrong to you, and you can't find one thing to like in the DEMO?

If you listed some things that you liked in the Demo along with some of your complaints, I would have taken your arguments much more seriously.... But instead it's just an angry irrational biased post.

Sense, as usual you make no sense... and you just join the group of like minded people who agree with you... No matter how irrational it is.... When are you going to get a mind of your own?

You believe I'm conforming to other people's views because I want to be liked here or something? I want this game to be good, but for a while now I've recognized that it WILL suck. This view wasn't very popular here before -- after this ****ty demo, it has become common and after the game is released, it will be the prevailing attitude.

What is Shinnosuke biased against? He loved Deus ex like I did; he wants DX:IW to be great. He realizes that it's being dumbed down and it pisses him off. There's no "arguement". He thought the demo sucked. I thought it sucked. Many people thought it sucked.

Elder
24th Nov 2003, 00:58
I was enjoying the demo from the moment i fired it up...granted I got the demo late and was able to do all the recommended tweaksbefore i went in game..But it reaks of DX atmosphere, story, GFX, and game play...I so want this game already

Neutrino
24th Nov 2003, 01:01
Originally posted by Shinnosuke
Also why attack Sense?


I happen to enjoy saying "Sense? you make no sense..." I have said it before in a post and the opportunity presented itself, so I said it again.. Sense appears a good natured person with sensabilities, and is not sensitive... Therefore I don't believe he minds..


Perhaps the "close minded" Deus Ex players opened their minds up while playing the DEMO more than once? You should try to be open minded, and perhaps you may enjoy the DX:IW gaming experience more.

Big Ragu
24th Nov 2003, 01:04
It was weel written and clear, and I agree. Perhaps Neutrino just needs to count to ten and calm down.

Shinnosuke
24th Nov 2003, 01:06
Originally posted by Neutrino
I happen to enjoy saying "Sense? you make no sense..." I have said it before in a post and the opportunity presented itself, so I said it again.. Sense appears a good natured person with sensabilities, and is not sensitive... Therefore I don't believe he minds..


Perhaps the "close minded" Deus Ex players opened their minds up while playing the DEMO more than once? You should try to be open minded, and perhaps you may enjoy the DX:IW gaming experience more.

Hahaha, well, I suppose that is a pretty funny thing to say.

close minded? Someone who tries and buys the games that are less hyped?
Also I had a full open mind before starting the demo. I knew certain things had changed from the gameplay movies
I didn't mind that if they were actually fun to play. The game just wasn't. not even after the third time. So you stay on your high horse pretending everyone who doesn't like the demo is close minded. I will be spending my money on a game that deserves it this christmas.

Buka Rox
24th Nov 2003, 01:59
hahahaha, so many reactions.

I think Shinnosuke makes excellent points, and even does so in a logical manner.

Whoever called the critics "irrational", I ask you to define rationality. It is not rational to say sit and wait, the final game will be better - you can sit and hope, but that is all.

Logically, a holistic and consistent picture is building up. The Gameplay videos (with the shoot-10-times to kill them), the increasingly less impressive screenshots (requirements of an X-Box), the interviews (Warren knows it too) and now the demo. There are no contradictions, it is consistently and logically underwhelming its audience.

That doesn't mean all is lost, perhaps Ion Storm will pull a miracle out (or more likely, community modders will set to work; already they have fixed at least the movement speed and mouse control, and damage, in time they will add localised damage, hell, maybe even some new voice actors...). But hope is the irrational position, for it flies in the face of all available evidence, so don't knock people down for stating their views at this time :) I know you are just trying to stop a negative hype wiping out the sequel to one of the finest games ever made, Neutrino, and I appreciate that, but this isn't a leaked beta - it's the officially released demo. If not now, then when?

As for the conspiracy thing the guy posted at the beginning. Of course it's a conspiracy. In truth Harvey Smith is a great designer, and more than likely this is an X-Box demo on PC, that will be radically different to the fully optimised and perfected final PC game, in two weeks. And I believe Pete Townsend, too. Yes.

Bob Barker
24th Nov 2003, 02:22
About a Conspiracy , I downloaded the high res version of the warren interview (dxiw_interview001_t1) off the web site , and at the end it says


Coming Spring 2004


what is going on?




also I think I downloaded it from the, community/interviews part of the web site

?

Shinnosuke
24th Nov 2003, 02:33
Hahahaha, it is true. I also remember that they delayed the game by a lot and suddenly changed that decision.
Thinking in conspiracy mode one might say that with Halflife 2, Doom3, Stalker, Far Cry of the list Eidos saw their big chance of having 'the' Christmas hit. Not a small deal, I can tell you. It involves muchos dollars.
The immediate anouncement of deus ex 3 and the fact that they are already working on it tells me that perhaps they use material originally intended for this game there. Of course in the same engine, the same format, possibly with the same hud.

This all in conspiracy mindmode of course

Bob Barker
24th Nov 2003, 02:41
oh was that old news?

Shinnosuke
24th Nov 2003, 02:57
Originally posted by Bob Barker
oh was that old news?

I think so. Hell, I hope so. i'd rather that Ion storm released this and started working on a new game. Tweaking this will do little. the whole fundament is lacking.

It doesn't even have to be a deus ex game, as long as it's a game that's good to play and doesn't insult our intellogence I'm game.

Klown
24th Nov 2003, 05:01
Neutrino has no business trying to rebut anyone whos commenting on the demo. reason being: Neutrino hasnt even played it yet. hes said so on several occasions.

now basically if i look at it as not deus ex, just "invisible war" that has been "ported from the xbox", its accually fairly decent when its tweaked. however, trying to say its the sequel to arguably the best fps/rpg to date is a completely different matter.

im not going to reiterate numerous deus ex features that have been dumbed down or removed completely, because its like beating a dead horse, sure its fun, but judging from the marks, somone has done it already.

MonkeyLungs
24th Nov 2003, 05:17
Originally posted by Shinnosuke

some text deleted by me in the quote to conserve space .. my point will address only the final paragraph and i make every effort to NEVER quote someone out of context (if i ever do call me on it and quick cause it's a pet peeve of mine)

Playing the demo untill you start to enjoy it is almost exactly the same. It's like brussel sprouts. An 'acquired' taste. Well, I am sorry, but I want the taste to have at least some promise from the beginning. Only then do I have the will to invest time and effort into something I have to bloody pay for. m'kay? [/B]

brussel sprouts KICK ASS i have always loved them they are NOT an acquired taste they are lovely little mini cabbages, bundles of joy for my mouth, tasty treats worthy of being served at every meal ...

Tassadar5000
24th Nov 2003, 05:44
Originally posted by Neutrino
Is that balanced? The whole "game" (Demo) is wrong to you, and you can't find one thing to like in the DEMO?

If you listed some things that you liked in the Demo along with some of your complaints, I would have taken your arguments much more seriously.... But instead it's just an angry irrational biased post.

Sense, as usual you make no sense... and you just join the group of like minded people who agree with you... No matter how irrational it is.... When are you going to get a mind of your own?

Misplaced burden of proof.
Ad hominem.

RedLegg
24th Nov 2003, 06:50
Ad hominem

Hmm, discussing a game or food. Brussel Sprouts and Hominy. What's next?:confused:

MaxxQ
24th Nov 2003, 07:26
The one and only time I ate Brussels sprouts, I threw up.

'Nuff said...

Shinnosuke
24th Nov 2003, 14:08
Hahahaha, well if brussel sprouts aren't an acquired taste they certainly aren't a common taste.
But hey, who says common taste is good. I'd choose brussel sprouts or caviar over a cardboard tasting big mac anyway. The quality is what we need.
Which is actually a pretty good analogy. The original Deus Es was like caviar and the new on they tried to steal Mcdonald's recipe for big macs.