PDA

View Full Version : Ion Storm took the ame route as BMW



mikester0421
23rd Nov 2003, 06:31
I anagolize the situation to what BMW has recently been doing to their cars. The 7 series had a fiercely loyal fan base that would buy the car again and again. But this die-hard group was not very large. Instead they turned against these people and built what many fans considered a monstosity of what was a once perfect vehicle. This loyal fans left and joined the ranks of more traditional luxury vehicle owners (Jaguar, Mercedes Benz). In reality though, sales of the BMW 7 series are actually selling more than was the case with the more conservative styling.

Ion Storm may have taken a similar track, you alienate your core group of fans and hope to reep even greater benefits for appealing to a different, larger segment of the gaming populace. At the same time, you can be relatively certain that at least 50% of those hard core DX1 fans will still buy the second because it carries the name "Deus Ex" on it.

I really enjoyed the first game. There was something undisputably special about it. I would play for hours on end; even days on end. Nothing else mattered, I was so enthralled by the game and the characters and that fantastic story. I would have to say that Deus Ex was probably the most enjoyment I have ever had from a video game. I played the game end to end at least six times and always came off thinking I would gladly do it again.

I will not go into the specifics about why the game simply "feels" different, as that has been discussed ad naseum. I guess I just have to come to grips with reality. Developers make games with the expectation that that game will derive a profit. If the demands of your core group of fans does not mesh with what will make a game economically successful, then I'm afraid their desires are secondary.

I hope that this is not the case. I hope that the demo is an abberation that does not accurately reflect the end product that will soon be before us at $50 a pop.

Oh well, flame me or disagree; just wanted to put in my two cents.

Devin the Dude
23rd Nov 2003, 08:39
Sequels are supposed to feel different. Remember this is not Deus Ex 2 its Deus EX IW anyway. I loved the original too. I am just more ambivalent to the changes because I have seen to many series stick with the same format when its not necessary, and I have changed my mind half way through games understanding why something is the way it is. There are some obvious issues but this game should be different in many ways for gameplay mechanics to best represent the story and pace. There should not be skills or exp if you are only roleplaying a character for a short period of time, and biomodes would obviously be a more significant cause for stat alterations.

The Ui or whatever version I play is no big deal. I'm sure there would be a quote from the review if locational damage was not in the Xbox version and if its in the Xbox version it will be in both. Stormy says that the ammo is made of some stuff that changes its self to deal with the surface it touches I'm ok with that. To me nothing changes the fact that this game looks like it will be special original and a lot of fun.

Prohass
23rd Nov 2003, 08:40
Im sure its a great anology, and i'll be reading it sometime. But im tired, and my feet hurts, and I havent cut the brakes to Warrens car yet, leave me alone.

Tassadar5000
23rd Nov 2003, 10:16
The way that I've personally noticed the PC market going is something like this....

GreatGame (1989)
A very high quality game. A ton of people love it, but most people have never really even heard of it. Still it goes on to win a slew of awards
|
|
|
|
GreatGame 2 (1994)
Taking everything the original did and making it better, this game begins to set a name for itself. Auidence grows and it goes on to win even more awards.
|
|
|
|
GreatGame 3 (1999)
This game sucks. It's been simplified to appeal to a larger market. The game doesn't win very many awards, but it sells millions.
|
|
|
|
GreatGameBeing******ByACompany (GreatGame 4) (2004)
The previous fanbase has almost completly moved on. Most of the former fans consider it a complete degression and the companyy to simply be making a profit instead of turning out a quality product. The company making it suddenly becomes "just another company"

Many times this only invovles 3 or even 2 iterations, and sometimes it involves many variants on the same theme with a constant pattern of degeneration.
Sometimes though, such as in the case of Civilization, the (cannon, not the fake Call to Power or whatnot) game continues to climb (to Alpha Centauri) and then suddenly takes a huge nosedive.
This is what I see happening with Deus Ex.

AINTD
23rd Nov 2003, 11:19
Analogy i great especially taking my interest in cars into account. And my opinion is: ALL current BMW's except for the 3-series (which will be replaced soon enough) and the X5-series S-U-C-K big time from design point of view. Those two don't because they are the last fruit of the previous management.

BUT, the analogy is not correct for several reasons:

1) The previous 7-series sold less than current (maybe ... I don't have the figures). But it still was a success, it managed to bring BMW from an abyss right into the tight competition with Mercedes. There was time when both actually were considered equal. S-Class sold more because of tradition ... nobody wants to pay a 6-digit sum of dollars to buy a car, which being good, still is not the same as the all-time king - S600.
2) Nowadays, a lot of "untraditional" people got rich ... usually high technology related and they are the ones who are appealed by this new design line of BMW. It may be selling more in absolute figures, but I believe if it was more pleasant from outside, it would be selling lots and lots more. The fact is that the factories only work at 40% capacity.
3) My family has had 4 BMW's, and now still have two - the (E39) M5 and the M Roadster (in Europe it's 321bhp, in USA - 27* ... err, can't remember the number) and we love both, both inside and out. We enjoy. And while we could have bought the new 5-Series and the new Z4, they are so unbelievably ugly, that we had to go to Mercedes and settle down with an E-Class. So, BMW's ARE ugly and they DO lose customers because of this. I'm somehow sure that the current E-Class will outdo the 5-Series several times fold.

To conclude: BMW's are technologically advanced, modrn cars. But being so ugly and not appealing to the traditional customers, they made turn many of them away.

And the analogy to DX goes as:

1) Original DX was unique. It broke into arena where Quake and Unreal were ruling. But it gave them competition and showed that FP perrspective games can be infinitely deeper. It was the golden time for DX. And it got plenty of awards.
2) Now, they felt an unexplicable urge to change things. Just not do the same, for the sake of not doing the same. But when something is close to perfect and you do something different to it - the result is quite a bit further away from being perfect. And while it still remains to be seen, I'm not very excited at the moment.

The game will appeal to certain masses, who enjoy a more straightforwrd FP perspective shooter with some deep elements. But the fact is that the game HAS obviously lost depth. DX had skills, this one does not, DX had reloading, this one does not, DX had body part damage modeling, this one does not, etc. (the degree of "etc." is yet to be seen), it's that simple ... it is already enough to say that DX was deeper. And haven't substituted the missing things by anything new.

To conclude: DX:IW will be technologically very advanced (graphics and sound) but if it is missing the sence of depth and atmosphere of previous, the technology won't be enough to make people buy the game. Many people will ... but you'll never know how many more would have, had the game been different. Same as BMW.

"If you're successfull and you change, you're an idiot." ... golden words in my opnion.

Devin the Dude
23rd Nov 2003, 16:14
your quote pigeon holes fan bases. See Final Fantasy, see Star Trek. Invisible War is not Deus EX 2.

Baloon
23rd Nov 2003, 16:27
About money: If they'd let the old interfaces in (and all the things that made DXI special) and just make a new story, new things (nothing revolutionary), better physics and graphics - ID BUY TWO PIECES!

Baloon
23rd Nov 2003, 16:29
AINTD: You have the M5? Lucky bastard! ;)))

Sense
23rd Nov 2003, 22:49
Originally posted by Tassadar5000
The way that I've personally noticed the PC market going is something like this....

GreatGame (1989)
A very high quality game. A ton of people love it, but most people have never really even heard of it. Still it goes on to win a slew of awards
|
|
|
|
GreatGame 2 (1994)
Taking everything the original did and making it better, this game begins to set a name for itself. Auidence grows and it goes on to win even more awards.
|
|
|
|
GreatGame 3 (1999)
This game sucks. It's been simplified to appeal to a larger market. The game doesn't win very many awards, but it sells millions.
|
|
|
|
GreatGameBeing******ByACompany (GreatGame 4) (2004)
The previous fanbase has almost completly moved on. Most of the former fans consider it a complete degression and the companyy to simply be making a profit instead of turning out a quality product. The company making it suddenly becomes "just another company"

Many times this only invovles 3 or even 2 iterations, and sometimes it involves many variants on the same theme with a constant pattern of degeneration.
Sometimes though, such as in the case of Civilization, the (cannon, not the fake Call to Power or whatnot) game continues to climb (to Alpha Centauri) and then suddenly takes a huge nosedive.
This is what I see happening with Deus Ex.

Yep. I saw some moron defending DX2 by saying "...Deus ex will still sell millions, very successful failure, dont you think?"

People are stupid.
DX:IW sucks.