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Five.Pointe.O
22nd Nov 2003, 19:47
I just got the latest OXM, and there's a review in it for DX:IW...

I'm not going to quote them because I don't think it's legal, but they basically praise the game to the HIGHEST heavens.. I realize that the -PC DEMO- is the cause for all the negative feedback, but since there appears to be no big differance between the PC DEMO and the XBOX VERSION of the game, I am left very confused.

How can the Xbox version be -THE GREATEST RPG EVER CREATED- (basically what the reviewer said), and the PC (demo) version be absolute garbage? Either the people that don't like the demo are completely out of their minds, or all the reviewers who have played the final build and gave it rave reviews are completely out of their minds. WHICH IS IT? WHO IS WRONG?

Is the PC version so differant from the XBOX version? I doubt it... they must have just screwed up majorly on the demo..... [/rambling]

Breadman
22nd Nov 2003, 19:51
Major problem for the demo suckage is the lack of story. Without story, it isn't Dues Ex. But putting story in the demo would give away some of the game. I really do think it will be a good game. I just don't think the demo does any of the game justice except to provoke complaints.

Cybersurfer
22nd Nov 2003, 20:07
Originally posted by Breadman
Major problem for the demo suckage is the lack of story. Without story, it isn't Dues Ex. But putting story in the demo would give away some of the game. I really do think it will be a good game. I just don't think the demo does any of the game justice except to provoke complaints.

The story is what people "ARE NOT" complaining about, I'm sure you have read what people have been writing:rolleyes:

Jesus, P.I.
22nd Nov 2003, 20:07
Originally posted by Breadman
Major problem for the demo suckage is the lack of story. Without story, it isn't Dues Ex. But putting story in the demo would give away some of the game. I really do think it will be a good game. I just don't think the demo does any of the game justice except to provoke complaints.

Lack of story does not bother me. After all, this is a demo. You can't really expect to get a good idea of the story just by playing one level.

What DOES bother me is the fact that headshots don't kill, player can't lean to look around corners, hacking is lackluster compared to the original, it takes three shots to make friendlies hostile, people don't really seem to mind having boxes/barrels/chairs thrown at them repeatedly. These are things that will all be problems in the full game unless the developers do something.

Don
22nd Nov 2003, 20:16
I've heard that localised damage IS in the game, but apparently hasn't been tuned properly in the demo. So there will be one-shot kills in the full game.
Since this was my only major gripe, I'm happy!

tas42
22nd Nov 2003, 20:27
they praise the game because they've got to play the whole thing. they've seen the open ended nature of it, incredible story, all the plot twist and so on. most of the people who don't like the demo are the hard core, loyal followers of the first game who wouldnt be happy with anything that wasn't basicly and add on with better graphics. thats not to knock those people or anything, but they wanted a DX2, and IW (as stated many times) is an entirely different game. in the end, i think it will be a huge hit, but many of the above mentioned "hard core" dx fans will be disapointed.

and there is localized damage in the game. the devs have said so, and the preview video with the cloaking bot opened with alex taking someone out with one shot to the head from a silenced sniper riffle.

vurt
22nd Nov 2003, 20:31
The fact is 90% of the people on this forum are 14 year old kids that are new to computer games and demos (well I can only HOPE these people are kids!) who doesnt understand the difference between a demo with an early build of the engine and the final game. There is no reason NOT to think that the FINAL _game_ will be awesome.

Breadman
22nd Nov 2003, 20:42
Originally posted by vurt
who doesnt understand the difference between a demo with an early build of the engine and the final game.

No one said this was an early build of the engine. In fact I'm 99.9% sure this is the final build of the engine.

tas42
22nd Nov 2003, 20:50
Originally posted by vurt
The fact is 90% of the people on this forum are 14 year old kids that are new to computer games and demos .

no, the people here (the ones complaing at least) are for the most part older and are complaining because its not 98% identical to the first. the newer members who arn't holding up a copy of the original as a litmus test will most likely love this game.

p.s i'm not critisizing anybody who doesn't like the demo, so no flames please.

Jesus, P.I.
22nd Nov 2003, 20:50
Originally posted by tas42
and there is localized damage in the game. the devs have said so, and the preview video with the cloaking bot opened with alex taking someone out with one shot to the head from a silenced sniper riffle.

There is localized damage, indeed that has been confirmed. However, what has also been confirmed is that the "weak" weapons such as the pistol will not be able to achieve one-shot kills. It bothers me that they would do this, because in my opinion all weapons should be useful in their own way.

Also, it has been confirmed that in the final build it will take a certain amount of damage to make friendly AI hostile. This is so you don't ruin your game with one "stray shot." Do you have to be a hardcore Deus Ex fan to think that is totally stupid?

tas42
22nd Nov 2003, 20:54
that is definitly a problem with the demo, but i'm guessing that it and the amount of damage done will probably be fixed either before shipping or with a patch right after shipping. neither are hard to fix and only require changing some key values. there's actualy a moding thread over at the ION boards that tells you how to correct 75% of what people are complaining about, just by editing the .ini file.

not to mention in the first you could shoot anybody you wanted once without consequence.

SK Denton
22nd Nov 2003, 20:57
How can the Xbox version be -THE GREATEST RPG EVER CREATED- (basically what the reviewer said), and the PC (demo) version be absolute garbage?

They praise the game cause DX:IW is probably a good CONSOLE game.

But when you try to take the same game and feed it to PC users with the same console interface and dumbed down console features you get what you are witnessing now in many boards across the net - OUTRAGE!

Five.Pointe.O
22nd Nov 2003, 21:12
I knew you had it in you SK, a non-flammable post!

Although I'm getting the Xbox version, they -REALLY- should fix the controls/interface for the PC before they start mass producing CD's and shipping them out (maybe too late.. nothing a patch can't fix though, right?).. I don't want to be sitting on my wonderful couch, playing IW on the TV and thinking about all the people who can actually run it on their comps, yet refuse to buy or play it due to simple control and interface issues.. that's just ludicris.

Let's face it, the line between a PC game and a console game is becoming EXTREMELY blurry nowadays, and with the next gen systems, it might be totally obliterated. (IE, give Xbox a mouse and an OS and you basically got yourself a PC.)

I'm not too sure I buy the arguement that it's a good CONSOLE game and a terrible PC game.. the only real differance is the UI and controls(which CAN make or break a game on either platform). I won't even mention resolution since it's never even been an issue for me. If I can see graphics on my screen clearly, I'm happy, I don't care how big or small each pixel is, or how many can fit on my screen at once. (Pixels never change size do they?... oh well.)

CONCLUSION: I think they just made a really crappy demo, or chose a really bad level to set it up in... I can't believe the gameplay is completely different between the two platforms.

tas42
22nd Nov 2003, 21:30
Originally posted by Five.Pointe.O


CONCLUSION: I think they just made a really crappy demo, or chose a really bad level to set it up in...

i think/hope that has a lot to do with it. i know there were spoiler and bandwith conderiations made on what to release. IMO, they shouldn't have released anything.

buzzfunk
22nd Nov 2003, 21:46
No, they shouldve release a test demo much earlier.

with all the feedback they got within one day, wouldve made the pc version much better.

90% here are 14 year old kid???

Dude, take your ****in head outta your ass and take a deep breath.

Everyone has their opinions but i think we all can agree that with a few tweaks this game could be much more fun to play.

I really hope Ion Storm will put out an official response to all the negative comments by Monday.

vurt
23rd Nov 2003, 03:36
Originally posted by Breadman
No one said this was an early build of the engine. In fact I'm 99.9% sure this is the final build of the engine.

Good for you, I guess some people only are satisfied as long as they can whine as a ten year old.

I only care for what the developers say and if you've had payed a little attention you'd notice that things are NOT final since they've commented on e.g localized damage, textures not being final etc.

IconoclastDX
23rd Nov 2003, 03:42
The reason its getting such rave review is that reviewers are (unconsciencely?) reviewing it as an xbox game, not a PC game. For the xbox, the game is stunning and down right revolutionary. Wait until people start playing it on there PC.

vurt
23rd Nov 2003, 03:43
Originally posted by buzzfunk
No, they shouldve release a test demo much earlier.

with all the feedback they got within one day, wouldve made the pc version much better.

90% here are 14 year old kid???

Dude, take your ****in head outta your ass and take a deep breath.

Everyone has their opinions but i think we all can agree that with a few tweaks this game could be much more fun to play.

I agree and since it isnt the final build im having a hard time understanding why "some" people on this board doesnt think the final _game_ will be somewhat tweaked. Especially since the developers themselves have commented on some of the issues.

Hell, some small tweaks can already be done by altering the user.ini file. http://www.ionstorm.com/forum/viewthread.asp?forum=AMB_AP619612110&id=34880

I also think that most people who have played computer games one ot two times before knows that patches are very common...

Tassadar5000
23rd Nov 2003, 04:07
And most people whom have played computer games also know that patches VERY RARELY alter fundamental gameplay....;) ;) ;)

Bad troll.

Devin the Dude
23rd Nov 2003, 04:16
You guys gotta realize. Xbox gamers by in large hate Japanese RPGs. Other then this one chick at OXM they are always talking about western RPGs being great and they always give love to games the Ps 2 could not port. If anything the fact that this game only got a 91 worries me. Also dont forget these reviewers have surround sound and Stormy said they would add some revolutionary surround sound stuff for the Xbox.

Prohass
23rd Nov 2003, 04:21
It does worry me that OXM only gave it 91, cos they're usually very generous and even biased. But then again, DX1 got its share of crappy reviews aswell, I recall many 80 somethings and a few 70 somethings.

vurt
23rd Nov 2003, 04:41
Originally posted by Tassadar5000
And most people whom have played computer games also know that patches VERY RARELY alter fundamental gameplay....;) ;) ;)

Bad troll.

Well, since people on this board seem to think small issues like no head shots and font size is very very fundamental to gameplay, i think my point is still valid - these issues can be fixed easily and is even possible to fix to some extent already in the .ini file...

Tassadar5000
23rd Nov 2003, 04:47
Originally posted by vurt
Well, since people on this board seem to think small issues like no head shots

If you play stealth, then this IS a fundamental issue. Ever hear of "silent takedown"?


and font size is very very fundamental to gameplay, i think my point is still valid - these issues can be fixed easily and is even possible to fix to some extent already in the .ini file...

True, however lately (past 3 years) devs have shown an incredible laziness in repairing almost any gameplay problem.

Devin the Dude
23rd Nov 2003, 04:52
Originally posted by Prohass
It does worry me that OXM only gave it 91, cos they're usually very generous and even biased. But then again, DX1 got its share of crappy reviews aswell, I recall many 80 somethings and a few 70 somethings.

I bet OXM reviewed an Xbox tech demo too and the final Xbox version is not quite done yet.

Warbie
23rd Nov 2003, 05:05
IconoclastDX wrote:


"The reason its getting such rave review is that reviewers are (unconsciencely?) reviewing it as an xbox game, not a PC game. For the xbox, the game is stunning and down right revolutionary. Wait until people start playing it on there PC."


Come on, a good game is a good game, regardless of the platform - any half decent reviewer will know this. (it seems as though you're suggesting that console gamers will settle for, or are happy with, less sophisticated games than your average pc gamer. Which is of course complete rubbish)

It's not as though pc games are more complex and innovative than console games either, far from it. Infact in recent years i'd say the opposite (can't remember the last good single player pc game :/ ......... maybe Deus Ex)

Soz if I got the wrong end of the stick :)

EyeMan002
23rd Nov 2003, 05:06
How come its a sin to be unhappy with the Deus Ex 2 demo? I just really liked the original and am dissapointed at some of my favorite features are gone. You fanboys need to chill.

go1dfish
23rd Nov 2003, 05:14
Im sure the OXM review is pretty truthfull (well as well as a ms sponsored xbox magazine can be)...

Im sure DX:IW is a wonderfull console game...

Its just a piss poor excuse for a pc game, or deus ex sequel.

How could you people ****ing try to sell us a direct port, and claim it isnt. WTF has gotten IS/Eidos, have you no shame? Why did you have to sell out your loyal fans like this.

tas42
23rd Nov 2003, 05:14
Originally posted by Devin the Dude
You guys gotta realize. Xbox gamers by in large hate Japanese RPGs. Other then this one chick at OXM they are always talking about western RPGs being great and they always give love to games the Ps 2 could not port. If anything the fact that this game only got a 91 worries me. Also dont forget these reviewers have surround sound and Stormy said they would add some revolutionary surround sound stuff for the Xbox.

that might have some truth to it if it were the only good review. but, EVERY preview has been like that. Nobody who has actualy played it has said anything but good about it. and most of the previewing has been done on PC.

Warbie
23rd Nov 2003, 05:28
go1dfish wrote:

"Im sure DX:IW is a wonderfull console game...

Its just a piss poor excuse for a pc game"



There we go again :/

This view that pc games are on a different level to console games in terms of quality, complexity, immersion etc etc couldn't be more wrong. (If it wasn't for clan matches my pc wouldn't get a look in, online gaming being the only attractive type on the pc at the moment :( )

Maybe in the days of Half Life and System Shock 2 there would at least be some evidence to back this up. Not today sadly .. with pcs being home to the average :/

A poor game is a poor game, end of story.

Alai
23rd Nov 2003, 05:29
Did dxiw demo for xbox come with this issue of oxm?(January issue I presume?)

Volition
23rd Nov 2003, 05:46
No, the Xbox demo isn't out yet

Prohass
23rd Nov 2003, 08:20
Originally posted by Warbie
IconoclastDX wrote:


"The reason its getting such rave review is that reviewers are (unconsciencely?) reviewing it as an xbox game, not a PC game. For the xbox, the game is stunning and down right revolutionary. Wait until people start playing it on there PC."


Come on, a good game is a good game, regardless of the platform - any half decent reviewer will know this. (it seems as though you're suggesting that console gamers will settle for, or are happy with, less sophisticated games than your average pc gamer. Which is of course complete rubbish)

It's not as though pc games are more complex and innovative than console games either, far from it. Infact in recent years i'd say the opposite (can't remember the last good single player pc game :/ ......... maybe Deus Ex)

Soz if I got the wrong end of the stick :)

I absolutely agree with you, and am quoting you to reinforce a good point you made.

Devin the Dude
23rd Nov 2003, 09:01
Originally posted by tas42
that might have some truth to it if it were the only good review. but, EVERY preview has been like that. Nobody who has actualy played it has said anything but good about it. and most of the previewing has been done on PC.

My PC is spec inferior. I just previewed the demo to see the HUD, and the few still shots of the graphics my framerate would allow for. Unless my girl who has a hell of a rig moves in I was going to get the Xbox version anyway. I am just being real. OXM gives games like DXIW great scores. Lately the Xbox has had some better titles and they have upped the standards but the general rule for OXM is that exclusives, console exclusives, or Microsoft stuff gets better scores. They have been tougher lately and this is the same score they gave Crimson Skies which was a great game published by Microsoft but I was expecting a little better knowing OXM.

Also guys lets be honest in some ways PC reviews have fan boy standards. NWN did not deserve 90+ reviews with its OC and Halo, and GTA 3 and VC got a little of the buisness they would not have cought if they were PC exclusives.

vurt
23rd Nov 2003, 09:22
Originally posted by Tassadar5000
If you play stealth, then this IS a fundamental issue. Ever hear of "silent takedown"?

Of course, but havent the devs already said that they're fine tuning this?

go1dfish
23rd Nov 2003, 10:04
There we go again :/

This view that pc games are on a different level to console games in terms of quality, complexity, immersion etc etc couldn't be more wrong. (If it wasn't for clan matches my pc wouldn't get a look in, online gaming being the only attractive type on the pc at the moment )

Maybe in the days of Half Life and System Shock 2 there would at least be some evidence to back this up. Not today sadly .. with pcs being home to the average :/

A poor game is a poor game, end of story.


I'm not trying to imply that pc games are on a different level of quality of xbox games, there are lots of good pc games, and lots of good xbox games.

All im trying to say is that for certain generes (espescially FPS shooters) there are different dynamics as to what makes a game good on either platform, largely due to control issues.

It may seem like a subtle difference, but controls have a big impact on how we play and perceive a game, and its interface.

The controls on the xbox are in most cases, more limited than that of a pc. Espescially as it applies to first person shooters.

But I think this can be summed up in one example...

Do you like Deus Ex, the original?
Imagine it was directly ported to the xbox, with no interface or gameplay considerations at all for the new platform. Asuming the graphics look exactly the same, and nothing else is changed.

Now maybe it is just me, but that game would suck on the xbox, sure it would have a great story, but the aggrivation of the controls/interface, and the slowness of the view movement (since the game is balanced for a pc) would drive most people insane after less than an hour.

I just think this is what we got with DX2, a greatly thought out and planned xbox game, directly ported to the pc as an afterthought with no changes or considerations at all for the different platform.

tas42
23rd Nov 2003, 15:13
Originally posted by vurt
Of course, but havent the devs already said that they're fine tuning this?

yes they have. also keep in mind, in the demo we didn't have the most esential weapon for silent takedowns----the sniper riffle. we also didn't have any silenced weapons, any mods to increase damage, the strenght aug for melee weapons or a host of other things.