PDA

View Full Version : Seems the game has been dumbed down to the level of console games



TerryHau
22nd Nov 2003, 16:01
ok just played it, the interface has been screwed hard. It has a real console feel to it. They even have a god damn vibrate option!!! WTF. Is this a port or something? coz it seems like it.

Theres hardly any options anymore. No reload button? use key is all screwed up. I mean, seriously, 1 key to do everything? sounds consoley to me. What happened to interfaces with an actual cursor? It seems very limit now, all you can do is scroll around with the mouse wheel and use the select key. And now that the select key is also used for throwing items, i guess you can't throw random objects around like you used to. I tried to throw a beer bottle in the air to see it smash, and he just drinks the damn thing. Please, wheres my drop/throw item button. Why simplify the keys to a point where u have all these 'universal' keys, it really limits the gameplay, this aint a damn console game, or is it? I mean we have over a hundred keys, and a pointing device (yes a mouse) with 3 or more buttons, make use of it?

And its become so automated now. You press the select key on a locked door, and it practically gets out the right tool and unlocks it for you. You go to a computer and press the 'select' key, nope no login screen, it just starts hackng away automatically.

Something wrong with the graphics too. The textures are very low resolution, like in console games, but it still runs damn slow. Even DeusEx 1 had really nice detail-textures, when u walk up to a wall it didnt look like a blurred peice of crap. And whats funny, is that game ran fine on a PIII 900, Geforce1 DDR, while DX2 has trouble on a athlonXP 3200+, Geforce4 Ti4600, its laggy as hell, and there seems to be a delay with the mouse movement.

Clearly the definition of sequel is now 'crap new version of the original'. Are these the same developers of DX1??!? WHAT HAPPENED?!

Other problems
No 3D audio options.
Controls reset at the start of every level
no 1280x960 resolution (this is standard 4:3 ratio, as oposed to 1280x1024, which is a nonstandard ratio)

===


Here are some worthwhile comments that others have made, that i'd like to add.

QCX

This game will be the disapointment of the year I can already tell... Maybe the game itelf wont be that bad, but I think a lot of gamers were expecting it to be one of the bests games this year and I'm 100% sure it wont. Graphics are average and the interface sucks. This Xbox and Nvidia thing ruined the whole game. I'm sure it's because of their partnership with Nvidia that they lowered theyr graphics that much and I'm sure it'S because of the xbox developpement that they have this ****ty interface. Being greedy is what kills every great game in this industry.

dagamer667

I was really disappointed after playing the demo. Looks like the PC version was an afterthought.

kuden

the interface did bother me , and mouse looking wasn't very smooth on my comp ;P but really what's up with the interface i hope it's something u get used to when the retail comes ;P

===

Ok didn't know there was an ion storm forum, and would really like to know how they'd respond to this, so i mirrored the thread there:
http://www.ionstorm.com/forum/viewthread.asp?forum=AMB_AP619612110&id=35217

HKRaven
22nd Nov 2003, 17:44
got to love it when some kid shows up and blames all the bad things on Xbox :P The 1 key option might be a remnant from the Xbox version but the low textures and laggy mouse are PC things. The mouse settings can be changed by editing a file. Also seeing that the avarage age for a pc player is 12 and the avarage for a Console player is a wooping 23(These guys need a life :P) i'd bet the "dumping down" is also a PC issue ;)

WolfJaguar
22nd Nov 2003, 17:53
The average age of a PC Player is 12? I'd like to see hard data on that one.

In any case, I've played the demo, and it has it's ups and downs. Since the release of the game is a mere two weeks off(less actually), I doubt the final version is much different.

Unless they have been holding the demo build back for months.

Sci
22nd Nov 2003, 17:54
I blame the dumbing down on the Xbox, but not because the users are stupid. It's because the limitations of an Xbox controller require a very streamlined and simplified UI. However, since the two versions are (almost) identical, that means there is a very simplified UI for the PC which is not necessary. The original Deus Ex had a good interface, but the PS2 version wasn't quite as good since it had to be on a console. That's not bad, except when you force PC users to have to deal with a weaker UI when they don't have to.

SK Denton
22nd Nov 2003, 20:03
Originally posted by HKRaven
got to love it when some kid shows up and blames all the bad things on Xbox :P The 1 key option might be a remnant from the Xbox version but the low textures and laggy mouse are PC things. The mouse settings can be changed by editing a file. Also seeing that the avarage age for a pc player is 12 and the avarage for a Console player is a wooping 23(These guys need a life :P) i'd bet the "dumping down" is also a PC issue ;)


Where did you get those figures? Oh, you invented them...okay. Only an idiot will believe that pc gamers are, on average, are younger than console gamers. :rolleyes:


Anyway, let me stress this for all of the people who don't get why there is so much outrage over this game.

DX:IW is a bomb because it is dumbed down. Yes there are minor bugs with the demo, but that is not the reason for the outrage. The minor bugs can and will probably be fixed, but all of the "streamlining" or in real terms dumbing down that went on cannot be tweaked, tuned or simply fixed. They took a gameplay system that won them 30 awards and threw it to the dogs so that they could accomodate the console audience.

Anyone who believes that the xbox had nothing to do with it just read my sig and realize that IS was making a console game first and they just tried to port it to the pc. Their vision was for the xbox FIRST and for the pc second. Like I have said many times IS gave us pc users a big middle finger and didn't even try to make a game that would play well on the pc let along one that we would like.

Cybersurfer
22nd Nov 2003, 20:16
Ya they ****ed the PC gamers thats for sure,

& I WILL NOT BUY THIS CONSOLE PORT:mad:

Tassadar5000
22nd Nov 2003, 21:50
Average age being 12?

http://www.futurelicensing.com/home/titles/XUSPCG
Average readership for PC Gamer? 30 years old.

http://www.gamersdepot.com/ed/gaming_cynic/gbg/002.htm
Interesting editorial....Really relates to DX2

http://www.gamesinvestor.com/Thinkpieces/The_21st_Century_games_industr/the_21st_century_games_industr.html

The average age of console gamers tends to start high and drop as the price levels for hardware and software decrease to more pocket-money and gift-friendly levels. This starting age level is increasing with every new cycle and is reinforced by an average PC gamer age level that is increasing at a rate of around 1 year per year.

I mean, 12 years old? That really is a load of...;)

Woggy
22nd Nov 2003, 22:11
Also, remove all the counterstrike-only players and watch the average mental age skyrocket :D

AINTD
22nd Nov 2003, 23:56
Huh? You must be thinking that console gamers are 8-14 years old school boys and PC gamers are indefinite, but definitely "mature", "adult" and really wise people? Don't be rediculous, there are plenty of kids going for PC gaming and making their parents to buy them the most advanced PC's (or parts for them) to be able to "study" ... yeah, right ... You can't have any data that proves anything ... You can't say that console gamers are only youngsters and PC gamers are only the wise guys ... it is a hard statistic value to calculate. How do you do it? By Inet? - NO. By seing who subscribes to magazines? - NO. All those are not reliable sources of information.

Anyway, there are plenty of crappy PC games as well ... it doesn't have to do with the platform, it has to do with developers and developers only (with exceptions maybe, but this case is not an exception - IS did what they though was right).

A console game does not have to be dumb ... if it is, it's because it was made such, because not enough effort was put into, not enough research. If DX:IW turns out to be disappointing, throw rotten tomatoes and such at IS' windows and not at Bill Gates, he's had his share of it already ... :rolleyes:

Dr. Lobotomy
23rd Nov 2003, 00:18
If you forget about the age of players, the target audience and all that stuff and focus only on DX2 in relation to DX. It makes no f***ing sense to dumb down, excuse me, streamline it.

For God's sake, Deux Ex won a truckload of awards, it doesn't take a genius to understand that IS did alot of things right when they put the game together.

To remove features completely, to change how things work and generally make a mess of things by trying to make the game for two wildly different gaming platforms at the same time is totally retarded. What the heck happened in the DX2 pre-production meetings?!

When you do something right the first time, you build *up* from there, you don't go back and not only dumb things way lower than the original, you make it dumber than wolfenstein 3d, which had 3 freaking ammo types!

I got a bad feeling about DX2 the second I saw the interviews in which the Team never stopped justifying the multi-platform launch by saying, duh... we play the PC, but we play the consoles too... duh. What kind of stupid reason is that?

Damn it.

***************
Anyway, off topic a little but I have a question which should help me understand the move to turn DX:IW into a mutated console atrocity:

Does anyone have the various sale figures for Deus Ex on PC and PS2?

Sci
23rd Nov 2003, 00:23
Like I said, it's not because Xbox users are stupid, it's simply because the Xbox has no choice but to use a really simple system due to it's controller limitations (I don't know about everyone here, but I HATE playing FPS games with a joystick.) The thing is, the PC version should have stuck closer to the original Deus Ex UI because 1) they can, since PCs have the mouse/keyboard configuration, and 2) more people like it (at least more than the way it is now.)


Originally posted by Dr. Lobotomy
Does anyone have the various sale figures for Deus Ex on PC, PS2 and Xbox?

I'm pretty sure that there is no Deus Ex for the Xbox, but I could be wrong.

And I have no sources to verify this, but I would bet dollars to doughnuts that the PS2 version did signifficantly worse than the Deus Ex version, and not just because it wasn't as good, but because the game came after the original PC version and wasn't better in any way (meaning PC users who already had it had no reason to get it for PS2)

dx1fan
23rd Nov 2003, 01:18
Dumbed down for the console...no....written FOR the console...yes
In one of the interviews I believe warren stated they were setting the bar at the xbox...they hit that bar for sure...but dont seem to want to exceed it for the lowly pc gamers:(

MonkeyLungs
23rd Nov 2003, 01:51
I for one am happy they took the XBox into consideration from day 1 during their design process. Alot of other people who enjoy playing their games on XBox will and do feel this way as well.

Alot of times, XBox ends up gettign crappy PC ports where the controls just don't feel right for the XBox and it's about time someone actually stepped up and laid the groundwork for a more smooth controlling game on the console version even though it is also a PC game.

That said, it seems to me like there should be inherent differences in the way the UI and basic functionality works for the PC version. I have both a PC and an XBox so I understand the advantages of using a keyboard, I also understand the advantages of using a controller and chilling on my couch playing games on a big screen tv.

It seems like alot of you feel like you have some sort of liscence to say that this game is 'more a pc product than a crappy console product'. I'm not quite sure I understand why. Is it because DX1 was a PC game first and then a console port second? So you think it should be that way again? I think IS made it clear from the get go that this game was being made with the XBox in mind from day 1.

And just to be clear, console gamers don't need their games 'dumbed down'. I don't think thet target audience for this game is small children so any 'dumbing down' was probably a result of design decisions that would have went into the game regardless of version.

TerryHau
23rd Nov 2003, 05:51
Its not being dumbed down because of the audience,
its beingd dumbed down because of the limitations of the xbox.

quote from gamespy interview

We started right at the outset wanting to make a game simultaneously for both the Xbox and the PC. So, what we did was we set the bar at the Xbox level

so

'dumbing down' was probably a result of design decisions that would have went into the game regardless of version.
wrong

Warbie
23rd Nov 2003, 05:57
Maybe the game was 'dumbed' down in terms of graphical detail due to its simultaneous development.

But the gfx isn't the problem with the demo (for me anyway) - these short comings shouldn't be blamed on the XBox. There's no reason to believe the game would be any different if it was a pc exclusive (apart from being prettier)

HKRaven
23rd Nov 2003, 07:33
Originally posted by SK Denton
Where did you get those figures? Oh, you invented them...okay. Only an idiot will believe that pc gamers are, on average, are younger than console gamers. :rolleyes:


Anyway, let me stress this for all of the people who don't get why there is so much outrage over this game.

DX:IW is a bomb because it is dumbed down. Yes there are minor bugs with the demo, but that is not the reason for the outrage. The minor bugs can and will probably be fixed, but all of the "streamlining" or in real terms dumbing down that went on cannot be tweaked, tuned or simply fixed. They took a gameplay system that won them 30 awards and threw it to the dogs so that they could accomodate the console audience.

Anyone who believes that the xbox had nothing to do with it just read my sig and realize that IS was making a console game first and they just tried to port it to the pc. Their vision was for the xbox FIRST and for the pc second. Like I have said many times IS gave us pc users a big middle finger and didn't even try to make a game that would play well on the pc let along one that we would like.



The PC numbers are from a gamespy article asking for the avarage user age on people wich i'd bet is much more accurate then a magazine wich counts the people in only 1 country :p The Console numbers are from EDGE magasine. Ofcourse the PC age are brought down becuase of CS but then again they are also PC players ;). As AINTD said most "PC Players" are kids who uses the "Family" computer(the "maturity" on MP Games and in PC game forums pretty much confirms this :D ) while console gamers mostly buy their own(and not alot of kids got enough money to do that).

MonkeyLungs
23rd Nov 2003, 11:30
i love how some of you are so righteous in your pc gamerness ... i play games on pc and on my xbox and i prefer xbox for a LOT of reasons ... i'm probably older than many of you super cool pc only gamers who post on this site as well ... so there lol :cool:


do you like pie or cake though?


i like cake, but only with soda.