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al_bundy
22nd Nov 2003, 14:58
I've been reading a lot of the posts today and it got me thinking....do the developers of the game read the forums, therefore taking into account what is being said by the majority of people?? From what's been written, it's clear that people's biggest problems are with the combat element (i.e. the unrealistic ragdoll effects and the lack of stealth style one headshot kills) and also other things like the font size and certian graphical elements.

What i'd like to know is,

1 How likely is it that the developers will be reading these forums

2 If they are, how likely is it that they will make the necessary changes

3 How difficult is it to change something like the headshot kill element? Will it result in a massive delay?

Also one more thing, i live in the UK and i read on one of the posts that IS now have four months to improve the game b4 a euro release, as it;s now too late for the US version. How likely is it that the euro version will be different from the US version? Should i wait for it instead of importing now? (I actually thought the demo was ok)

GingerNinja
22nd Nov 2003, 15:03
I think they are probably way to depressed to be reading these forums now. :(




But yeah if they are. I want my stealth back!





And about the Euro version differences. I dont think there will be any/Many. And if there are there would be a patch for the US version as well most likely. They wouldent make substantial differences between them I dont think.

Lawnboy360
22nd Nov 2003, 15:29
Developers read the Ion Storm forums; in fact, one started the "Demo Thoughts Here" thread, which is similar to the one on this forum.


man oh man, am i nervous....but here goes.

after playing the demo, post your thoughts here.

hope you guys like it....

grayswandir
22nd Nov 2003, 15:34
I wonder what are their reactions right now...
seems like he was right to be nervos

Do they read eidos forums too?

jaywalker2309
22nd Nov 2003, 15:38
Originally posted by grayswandir
I wonder what are their reactions right now...
seems like he was right to be nervos

Do they read eidos forums too?

Well we read these forums (we being Eidos)

Anything thats relevant, clearly written and sensible will obviously stick in our minds, whereas a `this sux` comment will just get scanned over and most likely ignored if it doesn't actually contain any information we could learn from.

We dont get depressed reading comments, its a free world, all are welcome to opinion, just theres ways to express them constructively. :)

grayswandir
22nd Nov 2003, 15:49
We dont get depressed reading comments, its a free world, all are welcome to opinion, just theres ways to express them constructively

Most of us fans of the first game don't want to hurt or behave like *******s with our comments (some do...like with anything in life).

But we also have to give our true opinions on the demo, even if it's a harsh one generally speaking.

jaywalker2309
22nd Nov 2003, 15:52
Originally posted by grayswandir
Most of us fans of the first game don't want to hurt or behave like *******s with our comments (some do...like with anything in life).

But we also have to give our true opinions on the demo, even if it's a harsh one generally speaking.

As i said criticism is fine, as long as its presented in a way that can actually BENEFIT us all.. If you think something is crap, say WHY, how could it be improved etc..

grayswandir
22nd Nov 2003, 16:01
Originally posted by jaycw2309
As i said criticism is fine, as long as its presented in a way that can actually BENEFIT us all.. If you think something is crap, say WHY, how could it be improved etc..

Maybe knowing eidos and Ion Storm are actually reading them and "listening" to them will make some people have more constructive things to say about the demo...

Great to know we are read.


off topic: this may have been already asked a zillion time... will there be MP in DX2?

jaywalker2309
22nd Nov 2003, 16:02
Originally posted by grayswandir
Maybe knowing eidos and Ion Storm are actually reading them and "listening" to them will make some people have more constructive things to say about the demo...

Great to know we are read.


off topic: this may have been already asked a zillion time... will there be MP in DX2?

As was discussed in the Chat last night on Gamespy, there are no plans for MP in DX2, its all about the singleplayer experience

grayswandir
22nd Nov 2003, 17:03
there is a develloper who actually signed the "delay the game" petition on ion storms forum.

Viz
22nd Nov 2003, 17:04
I hope Ion Storm listen, delay the PC release and for heavens sake sort out all the issues brought up, from the hideously large interface and text, to the performance and glitches to all these 'dumbing down' issues taht are seriously causing gameplay issues to the PC gamers that were willing to accept that this game would be much more intuitive to cater for the console gamers but no matter what Spector says, this is not only DUMBING DOWN, but it is taken to another level. This is now a console version of DX ported to the PC... please look through the feedback and make approptiate changes.

Delaying and making these changes will show you care what the PC gamers think.. rushing it out like this will not only destroy the reputation of this series but hurt you in your sale pockets too.

And this is from someone whol holds the first DX as one of the best experiences he has had in a long history of gaming.

Morrolan
22nd Nov 2003, 20:43
To me, complaining about reloading and the text font and size is all fine and good, but to say that they 'break the game,' is rediculous. One has absolutely NO impact on gameplay, and the other has very little.
One hit kills ARE in the game, so stop complaining about that, please.
The tech issues are legitimate, this coming from someone who can technically play the game, but can't see what the Christ is going on around him...
The interface is a little big I guess but not HORRIBLE as some people are saying. I really don't mind it. The inventory system has been 'dumbed down,' which is something that I 100% agree with. Limiting carrying space is good, which they have done, but having to play jigsaw in order to get your crap in your backpack was just about the worst design decision on the original game.
The controls are... not that great. I'll give you that. Mouse movement is sluggish at best and the running just feels off. Definetly a byproduct of the XBox version. A shame really, and something that's quite annoying, but again: If this game lives up to Deus Ex in all the ways that this demo can not possible showcase... *I DON'T CARE ABOUT LITTLE THINGS LIKE THAT!*

I'd say it was a disapointing demo, not really because of what was shown, but what was not shown. They made a lot of bad decisions in how to present this demo. Hell, they should have just given us the tutorial level. I can garantee there would have been less backlash.

Agent D
22nd Nov 2003, 22:07
Originally posted by Morrolan
To me, complaining about reloading and the text font and size is all fine and good, but to say that they 'break the game,' is rediculous. One has absolutely NO impact on gameplay, and the other has very little.
One hit kills ARE in the game, so stop complaining about that, please.

Reloading is a tactical element, and gives an ebb and flow to the combat. It also allows melee people to take down an enemy while they reload. Additionally, the lack of reloading is a somewhat minor realism problem, considering the amount of time that has passed from DX1 to DX2.

The text and font size makes it cartoony, and was obviously meant for a TV screen, but yes, that's not something I'm incredibly worried about.

Yes, one hit kills apparently are in the game. However, almost none of the weapons in the demo had them. By "one hit kills" we mean the whole "shooting someone in the back of the head at point blank with a pistol should actually kill them" thing.

My main point to the developers: You were trying to figure out what made a game Deus Ex-like. I think its obviously different for different people, and you took out about half of the things which a lot of us felt were absolutely essential. Basically, now it feels like a clumsy quake 3 with an interactive plot. Sure, the interactive storyline is there, along with the freedom of actions and augmentation, but now all realism and stealth has been removed.

UnConeD
24th Nov 2003, 02:21
I'm a stealth freak, so some questions about that for the developers.

- Why was leaning left out? Whenever I think 'stealth', I think leaning and creeping. Maybe that's because I'm a Thief freak, but you did claim you could finish the game without touching a weapon so to speak. Leaning is an essential part of that sneaky, sneaky mindset. Stealth is not just taking down enemies in a quiet way, I'd like to be able to pseudo-ghost DE.

- Why are the visual representations of stealth weapons so unstealthy? Was this an issue that was dismissed as being not important, or was this not mentioned? (I know when working on a project and looking at the forest, you stop looking at the trees). A lot of people have harshly called the multitool and prod a magic wand, but I must agree with that.

- A question related to the lethal headshots thing: The most important mindset of the game was to allow a player to play in various play styles. But it seems rather than crafting the system to support a whole range of styles, you simply provided option A for style A, option B for style B, option C for style C etc. For example, headshots need to be done with sniper rifle. So yes, it's *possible* to snipe people, but only in one way?
The main kicker for me in Deus Ex was that the game felt like a toolbox with a bunch of items, but where every item had tons of uses. This feeling is much less in Deus Ex 2. I guess this is a consequence of streamlining, but gives a limited feeling.

- Why wasn't the font changed for the pc version? Yes it's functional and doesn't break the game in any major way, but as any graphic designer can tell you, a typeface can make the difference between claustrophic text and light reading, and can have a huge impact on the feel of the game. To me, this is part of the stealth aspect: if a game has an 'in your face' feel, it suggests subtlety is not an option.
System Shock 2, Thief, Deus Ex, they all had small, clear pixel fonts that fit the game. Today I'd imagine you would take a nice, hinted font and use a high quality library like Freetype for the output. Warcraft 3 did this, and the text in that game fit completely with the theme, was very artistic, yet thanks to proper arti-aliasing and hinting it was perfectly readable.

I also realize that most people are viewing Deus Ex 1 through rose-tinted glasses, but I must agree that the Deus Ex 1 demo was a great intro which caused many people to run to the store. I do not get this feeling at all with the Deus Ex 2 demo. The marketing for this game has been off since the beginning, with the dark, gritty Deus Ex 1 cover being replaced by a silly shot of a gun toting Alex. Eww. I would put a box of Deus Ex 1 on display immediately (unfortunately I have a Sold-Out ugly DVD box).
The most excellent example is the fact that the DE website says "Gender: Male" for Alex D, which shows the marketeers don't know everything they should about the game they are marketing.