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The Grimpond
22nd Nov 2003, 14:18
I suppose the intent of the demo was so people would get a good tase of the game and go out and buy it... would you say from this that the demo was a success or failure?

I say Success.

dave9191
22nd Nov 2003, 15:05
Will I buy the game... yes... but I think its a failure. Its Deus Ex wihtout the heart and soul. I was going to pre-order from the US, but now I can wait till its out in the UK. Its not what the developers claimed it is... :(

GingerNinja
22nd Nov 2003, 15:08
Its just not deus ex anymore :(


Its unreal tornament 2003 with deus ex's story.



Its a disgrace to deus ex.







But it can be fixed in parts with patches or whatever.
Then, and only then will i consider buying it.

Tenkahubu
22nd Nov 2003, 16:29
I think it is alright. They could probably have chosen a segment of the game that showed more variety. On the other hand I expect that they had some difficulty finding a segment that didn't give too much of the story away. Overall I like the atmosphere, quite dark and bladerunner-esque.

Also - what's with having massive spaces between lines? Is it supposed to add emphasis? It just wastes space and is not very cool in my opinion.

PointlesS
22nd Nov 2003, 16:46
I wouldn't call it a failure...the people who enjoy the game (I know I do) probably went with the "kill them all approach" in the first one...

AlteredGlyph
22nd Nov 2003, 17:05
I liked the demo, although it was a little to hard to collect the money. Much easier to slaughter everyone with the turret.

Sci
22nd Nov 2003, 18:31
"I have two words for whomever wrote this Invisible War demo: USER INTERFACE!!"

Klown
22nd Nov 2003, 18:34
oh it succeeded all right.. it succeeded in showing us that they removed the deus ex from the invisible war. which saves me 70cdn dollars to spend on somthing else.

Pooeypants
22nd Nov 2003, 19:32
First impression, I thought I'd downloaded a console emulated game.

Then I realised the truth, this PC version is just a port from the console. Explains everything really.

Razzr_TonyDa
22nd Nov 2003, 21:24
... on my behalf, I would have been lucky just to have the old game-engine/interface etc. and a new storyline together with some 20 new levels - was that so hard to accomplish? Maybe the animation and level-design would have needed a refresh - but that's it - for me.

And what DO we get..ah..sorry, I mean what does the average XBox-M$-costumer get?

This 'game' will hurt IonStrom. This will hurt EIDOS. But this won't hurt Microsoft (they can afford to loose millions of dollars).

Gamers mourn...

AINTD
22nd Nov 2003, 23:20
I think it's unfair to blame MS for the lac kof DX soul in IW. They don't influence the game development. Or are you insane enough to say that there can't be a good, deep and atmospheric game on a console (X-Box)? The choices that have been made were made by IS and the development team is fully responsible for rverything, not MS. I remind you that it was headed by a different person and different ideas in mind. I think it's wrong. If DX was successfull, why change? WHO asks for a change? WHO wants a change? WHY did they get an idea that something must be changed? If you want to blame anyone, blame IS and not MS and stop being childish.

geldonyetich
23rd Nov 2003, 01:45
Success in my book.

My own review here. (http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=27969)

Woggy
23rd Nov 2003, 01:57
Success, great game after tweaking the font and damage multipliers. I give it a 90% on the Deus Ex Perfection scale ;)
Now what we need is a better FONT (the default one is really ****ty, i want a crisp font) and those bulging eyes on the NPCs, they really make me angry.

buzzfunk
23rd Nov 2003, 02:01
I envy you, thats for sure.

But to call this a success? Regression?

with the original game having more depth and games like KOTOR, how can this be even to be considered a RPG?

Even with all the tweaks, it still doesnt make up for the lack of depth.

I woudlve like to see everything that was good about DE being kept for DE2.

How about having a dark/light (visability) bar? A lot of the early previews mentioned that u could hide in the shadows.
Leaning? why not? Mini games for hacking? I thought this was supposed to be the ultimate in cyberpunk?

blah

Luagsch
23rd Nov 2003, 02:02
the demo is a failure as it was delivered.
but with some tweaks in the ini-files it turned out quite good. (seems like a lot of things were still in xbox-mode).
if they would have released it already tweaked, it wouldn't have dissapointed so many people.
now i guess a lot of people have a wrong impression of the game. if i was eidos or/and ion storm i would release a patch with some tweaked ini-files. that might help.

EDIT
still some stuff missing. i played the demo in a fps-fashion using some bastard methods, worked good (i ended up shotgunning or turreting everybody). but no chance for a stealth-approach.

i miss leaning and visibility gem too. and it seems like it could be incorporated quite easy as it seems to also be the base for thief 3 (from the ini's).

buzzfunk
23rd Nov 2003, 02:02
LOL woggy....yeah some of the NPC look like they took too many pills of speed...:)

buzzfunk
23rd Nov 2003, 02:06
if they would have released it already tweaked, it wouldn't have dissapointed so many people

Well maybe. But it still doesnt change anything about the actual gameplay. Which does not have the depth some hoped for. Incl. myself.

KOTOR proves that you can do both. Deep storyline and an extreme well done rpg part.

Ammo
23rd Nov 2003, 02:21
I still have not gotten to play the demo. I downloaded it installed it and all and it wont work, go here (http://forums.eidosgames.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=27815&perpage=25&pagenumber=1) for more info on that and scroll down to my post. Anyway, I was able to get into the game and move around but I still coudnt see anyhting. though, just from the look of the menu, the sound effects and waht was going on in my menu (objectives and all) I thought it was awsome. Even though I couldnt see anything. Im sold already. Its gonna be great. I have to admit though, there was somehting about DX1 that made you want to play, and never stop. I would play 5-7 hours daily for 2 weeks. There was something about the story, the charecters, the plot. That made you want to play. I just hope they can bring at least some of that in DX2. Ther was so much in the first, that even if they just get a fraction in DX2, I will still love it. It was that good.

MatO
23rd Nov 2003, 05:13
When I started the demo I mainly explored the world admiring the astounding lighting and the power of the Havok 2 engine (causes things to move realistically). For the first while this masked many things. For example the guns have enlarged on your screen and they no longer need to reload. Plus making it even easier every gun uses the same type of ammunition using different amounts across the different types of guns. This pushes me farther away from seeing the origonal style of a first person shooter RPG like the first Deus Ex and more towards something like Unreal. Change is good but fire the man who said "lets get rid of location damage all together" causing anyone to take 4 shots anywhere with a pistol to die lowering the stealth atmosphere created from the first game. Also because of the new engine (Havok 2) the creators have displayed this game in a different style to attempt to show off the physics. This worked but in the origonal there was no need to destroy everything, once again stealth is lowered. Those are bad points it also has good. Things like over 4 different groups you can join and use to change endings of the game and new things like black market augmentations create a more realistic style for what they display to be the future.
In the end I just want to say that I'm definitly going to purchase this game hoping to get the same gaming experience as its predessor showed but I hope they didnt base the sequal to Deus Ex game of the year on a Shoot Em Up graphically demanding supershow. I know they wont...they cant, I hope.

Dav1000
23rd Nov 2003, 05:34
"Chris Carollo
Junior Member

For the record, DX:IW does have localized damage. The pistol's headshot bonus may not be very high, and it may not be tuned very well, but it's definitely there.

The sniper rifle, for example, will definitely result in a one-headshot kill for most enemies.

Remember, the demo doesn't include all the weapons. There are a number of stealthy ways of taking people out."

So localized damage is in; it's just a matter of tweaking damage values.

The IS forum thread on how to improve the demo by editing the ini files is http://www.ionstorm.com/forum/viewthread.asp?forum=AMB_AP619612110&id=34880 and it includes info on increasing the damage dealt, among other things.

MatO
23rd Nov 2003, 05:53
Thanks that helps alot, I'm going to check that out now. I also didnt think about checking the posibilites of editing the demo to see how it works in different situations. Hopefully I'll find something new but it seems that you always do in DX.

Akito
23rd Nov 2003, 06:32
I think it was awesome..

Just don't like the interface / single ammo type / no lockpick

Volition
23rd Nov 2003, 06:38
Obviously it was a failure to most people, but I'm having more fun with it than I expected. And no, I'm not lying or blindly defending the game.

Cableguy696969
23rd Nov 2003, 06:55
WHat the hell? This game is wacko. They went a little overboard with graphics which makes the frames per second uncool. Smooth games are fun games.

Sheepy_DeathStorm
23rd Nov 2003, 09:30
i haven't played this demo yet, but remember the DX1 demo?
that was hardly exactly brilliant, was it? ;)

The whole of DX is based around the plot. We didn't see much of it in the old one, and i'm sure you guys wont have in this one.

I will have to play it to actually say something you guys can take seriously, but just bear this in mind.

Sotos
23rd Nov 2003, 11:00
Dx 1 was much better (in balance) from these Demo and of what introduced...
so:

DX IW demo is a failure to me

I just hope DX IW final version will be MUCH BETTER

Yssago
23rd Nov 2003, 13:17
DX2 is to DX what Final Fantasy Tactic Advance is to Final Fantasy Tactic (PS1): An insult to the original.

smartass
23rd Nov 2003, 14:29
that depends on what the developer's goal was:
- did they want to give us a hint what the game will be like on xbox? success
- did they want to enrage the community? success
- did they want to make people pre-order the game? failure

i could have accepted this demo in winter 2002, as an very early alpha, a gift for the fans.
but the game will come to stores in a couple of days. they didn't cut on pc-version-features to minimize the download-size, they even added a trailer on thief3 to it!!!

speaking of marketing, the demo is failure (if you ask me).
speaking of fullfilling high expectations, the demo is a complete desaster.

Unmaker
23rd Nov 2003, 16:51
Failure. No sale. I won't even bother explaining why... there's no sense in repeating the opinions of the forum majority.

Unmaker

bobk
23rd Nov 2003, 18:25
I have calmed down considerably after learning how to
mod the ini files. The developers should have had a PC
DX1 player mod these before releasing the demo,
instead of releasing an Xbox configuration. The laggy
mouse control was my worst gripe, which was fixed with
MouseLagThreshold=0 in the default.ini.
Hitting F2 to see through walls helped the lack of a lean
feature, but I would still prefer to lean.
I will buy the game. I believe ultimately many of the DX2
"features" that the DX1 players consider to be bugs
will be addressed in the form of patches or user mods.

Bonk
24th Nov 2003, 08:30
Why even do demos if they are going to be craptastic?

I've played so many horrible demos and many times the game actually turned out to be great but I skipped it because of the horrible impression I got of the game from the craptastic demo

Only put out good demos. It wouldve been better to spend the programming resources making the game better and getting it out on time.

I still wonder why they dumbed this game down so much and made it just another FPS game

So sad :(

BostonLow
24th Nov 2003, 08:41
Failure in my opinion...
I would've bought it on the day of the release, but thanks to the demo I'll wait until it hits the bargain bin. Or until the problems are addressed in a patch. I doubt any gameplay balances will be made on a patch though - if they really want to provide exactly the same experience on PC as on XBox.

mvrander
24th Nov 2003, 16:36
I think the idea of a demo for dxIw was doomed to failure from the start, demo's for battlefield 1942 or savage have been extremely successful because they show of the main part of the game. The main selling points of dx:iw are the character advancement and open style of play and development of the player and not just the character. It is impossible to show this off in a demo and the decision to release a demo simply because they could was probably a bad one.

That being said I have the game pre-orded on import from the US and i'm still really looking forward to it's arrival.

Razzr_TonyDa
24th Nov 2003, 16:36
Originally posted by BostonLow
I doubt any gameplay balances will be made on a patch though - if they really want to provide exactly the same experience on PC as on XBox.

How much? Three years of development? How many people working on it? 50? 60?70? Millions of dollars spent... And they are not willing or capable to give us - whose money is it, hugh? - a decent Demo/ not able to custumize their very own .ini-files?

Now THAT leaves me confused...

But than, I also was thrilled that another top-game-studio-exec uses Outlook;)

MR X
24th Nov 2003, 19:20
I really don't see why everyone is so dissapointed in the demo. The only problem with it that I can see are little things like the floaty movement, which can all be resolved by moding the file. I'm sure Ion Storm will have noticed everyone demanding these changes and release a patch a few days after dxiw's release. If not, we can always make these changes again with the final product. As for combat, personally that's not what I played deus ex1 for. Everything I loved about deus ex1, environment, characters, interaction, etc is still there.

All I know is there were many pricless moments after only 10 minutes of playing. Trying to throw a stool at someone in the bar, but accidently hitting the light above the pool table, causing it to swing back in forth; the light shifting around the room in responce. Laughing my ass off as some guy complains about a baby greisel biting his toe off, and saying "My toe hurts whenever I talk about it, thanks alot!"

I think the problem here is everyone had much too high expectations from a DEMO. Your assuming that after playing the demo, you've played the entire game. That what you just saw is all you will ever see in the game, like say, a quake 3 demo. Or some lame fps like that, where the entire game is the same as the demo. Have you forgotten this is deus ex? That the story will be keeping us on our toes, (we just didn't see it in the demo)? That the characters and interaction will keep us inthralled in the world?

Quite frankly, I never loved the combat system in deus ex1 anyway. After I played through it the first time, and understood the game, and began playing it second times, the headshot factor only made me a perfectionist; I would constatly load saved games until I had shot everyone only once with headshots, and recieved minimal damage, thus preserving ammo. That took away from some of the funner aspects of the game. Like trying to sneak out of versalife with barley enough bio energy to cloak from vent to vent, then pissing my pants when I run into a giant spider, and barley getting out alive with no bio energy. Sorry, kinda went into remenescing there. But you get my point...right? Basically none of the great situations like that in deus ex1 could have been realized from simply playing the ****ty one level demo, where you go to the top of the statue of liberty (shocking!).

SDX
24th Nov 2003, 19:43
damn you all! You don't even understand how lucky you all are!

I'm a MAD fan of Deus Ex since I got till the 5 mission in DX and have followed DX2 development through all last 2 years!

Guess what - I have GeForce2Ti

No F***** Pixel Shaders - DX2 won't ever boot on my PC!

The best part is that I actualy know that I won't get to buy new PC till AT LEAST summer 2005!

I actualy aren't interested in games for today because I think games spoil my personal life, with one exception - DEUS EX 2


Thank you Warren, I had respected you so much...

Bonk
24th Nov 2003, 19:49
A bad demo doesnt necessarily translate into a bad game but it would really be nice if IonStorm quickly released an patched demo which at least addressed some of the performance issues

kingkongkris
25th Nov 2003, 12:48
total and complete failure

man i registered today just to tell those guys they made some big crap. This is a console game, and not a pc game, i feel like i have to pay for the noobs who think they have to use consoles and therefore they programm it for a tiny littel console making us all pay for it... by relasing a console demo on a powerfull machine as the pc...

very weak demo,

apart from not having any sound at all and not being able to customize and SAVE my controls (they jump back to default in game) and the graphics... rofl ridiculous people, thats just ridiculous. Print yourselves the word ridiculous and hang it on your walls (goes for the guys who decited to destroy DX, and the DX saga)

... thats it, im so pissed

K.

OrioTecc
25th Nov 2003, 17:34
Originally posted by kingkongkris
man i registered today just to tell those guys they made some big crap.


great, just what we needed here:rolleyes: :rolleyes:

and for ****s sake, if u read some of the things posted here, u can get rid of most of those things that people complain about.

AINTD
26th Nov 2003, 20:02
You can't get rid of game design ...

Ziggy Dee
26th Nov 2003, 20:34
Don't like it? Don't play it.

I can't believe how sad you insecure babies are who come here to cry about a fricking video game you don't like! LOL!!!!!!!!!

babaru
26th Nov 2003, 23:53
This demo proves what I've been thinking for a while now, developers are pushing games out way to fast to make deadlines and pushing there games to gold before they should be. the poll above is absolutely pathetic, when 75% of your buyers cant test the product you should be worried. As for myself im not gonna bother buying the game, mainly because i couldnt even start it. sadly i have a GeForce2 MX 400, that says it all. it wouldnt even start and i couldnt read the message either cuz the loading screen blocked it. all though alot of you said it had something to do with the pixelshader version not being write. Anyway i think its pathetic that games get released like this, demo or not. I'd much rather prefer that you/they work out all the kinks before you send us a worthless program to take up space on our hard drives, im disappointed and btw deus ex was probably my favorite game of all time. having this problem really really was a bummer but oh well, i guess i can go some where else.:mad::mad: :mad: :( :( :(

darklightning
26th Nov 2003, 23:58
Originally posted by SDX
damn you all! You don't even understand how lucky you all are!

I'm a MAD fan of Deus Ex since I got till the 5 mission in DX and have followed DX2 development through all last 2 years!

Guess what - I have GeForce2Ti

No F***** Pixel Shaders - DX2 won't ever boot on my PC!

The best part is that I actualy know that I won't get to buy new PC till AT LEAST summer 2005!

I actualy aren't interested in games for today because I think games spoil my personal life, with one exception - DEUS EX 2


Thank you Warren, I had respected you so much...

I can't believe people are complaining and dissing Warren for using technology that they don't have. People are already complaing that the game wasn't good enough and besides, if the video card is the only problem, then take care of just that. Why buy a whole new computer if all you need is a new video card?

IIIMystIII
27th Nov 2003, 00:57
One only has to look around the forum of stories of people canceling pre-orders in droves to answer this question...

jcd_2025
27th Nov 2003, 01:44
i just played the game and i am pretty dissapointed

the interface is the WORST i have EVER seen in a game i know its supposed to look like his eye or something but dont sacrifice gameplay for stupid effects the graphics are nothing special considering the amount of power it requires from the machine and the health display has been changed to a standard bar instead of the old area based thing

they haved dumbed this game way down since the last its shaping up to be another boring shooter

Bonk
27th Nov 2003, 05:45
I actually discovered I had my ATI 9800 pro set for full quality with everything set to the max and that was why I had such craptastic performance in the demo.

Once i put it back to balanced between performance and quality the demo ran great

I just wish the guy who is the hero didnt look so damn dorky and the text was so big and arcadish when hes speaking :D

alexandertheokay
27th Nov 2003, 07:02
And just when I was beginning to believe gamers weren't the fickle crybabies the industry makes them out to be.

I'm sorry, but I keep reading the same thing over and over again in these forums (here and elsewhere): "OMGZ THE UI IS TERRIBLE I HATE IT CUZ I DON'T LIKE EYEZ"

and then, the absolutely unbelieveable: " OMGZ THE GFX ARE LIKE NES THEIR SO BADD"

Okay, you're granted to have those opinions but lets keep things in perspective. When you've finished a game and you rave to all your friends about how great it was, what are the first things you tell them about? The GAMEPLAY and the STORY, not the UI and the graphics. After 10-20 hours of playing a game (the average FPS/Action title length), you've gotten used to the slightly retooled interface and if you didn't like the shading, by then you've totally forgotten about it.

Nobody who complained about the game that I've read so far has mentioned a THING about how they felt about the open-ended world, the missions, the characters, nothing. Even if some have complained, their number is nowhere near the plurality of these other, staggeringly shallow reviews. In fact I've even read a bunch of "reviews" in which the reviewer blatantly remarks that they didn't even play more than 2 minutes into the game before shutting it off and uninstalling it. Well if that doesn't sound like a toddler throwing a fit in a grocery store I don't know what does. There's nothing so abysmal about this demo that it warrants such derisiveness.

Seriously, all this stuff about "it's a disgrace to the Deus Ex name" is all dramatic posturing by a cult fanbase eager to deify their idol by condemning all pretenders. It's like watching guys in Spock Ears rail about how Star Trek: The Next Generation could never have lived up to the original Star Trek. Who cares? When did we forget that this is just a game? And maybe to judge it we should just play it through instead of look at it for 2 minutes and toss it away?

One last thing - you may be swayed by this forum into thinking that all people who played the demo hated it. But remember where you are. This is a DX forum after all, so the majority of people posting here are just angry fanbois. The general public (the people who will make up most of the customers anyways) doesn't come here to post. They just play and decide. So lets leave it at that.

NamelessOne
27th Nov 2003, 07:44
Originally posted by alexandertheokay
And just when I was beginning to believe gamers weren't the fickle crybabies the industry makes them out to be.

I'm sorry, but I keep reading the same thing over and over again in these forums (here and elsewhere): "OMGZ THE UI IS TERRIBLE I HATE IT CUZ I DON'T LIKE EYEZ"

and then, the absolutely unbelieveable: " OMGZ THE GFX ARE LIKE NES THEIR SO BADD"



Right....

I think you're making stuff up to fit with your own image of the game.

Most people who post have posted valid complaints, including
-poor performance
-smaller levels
-An unituitive interface, which doesn't seem to utilise the strengths of the PC
-cutting down on character development (cutting out skills, etc)
-AI glitches
-cutting out lockpicks/multitools/logins
-The fact that most NPCs have "bug-eyes"
-The fact that locational damage is virtually non-existant
-Lean buttons have been removed
-Low quality textures
-No mini-screenshot on saved games, or the ability to name a savegame
-Slot-based instead of sized-based inventory

And many more. Some of this are personal opinions (bugeyes) and some can be explained with the "Its only a demo" excuse (low quality textures). But they remain valid complaints. Perhaps if you're read the complaints instead of making sweeping generalisations you'd have realised that.

Also, your points about gameplay and story. The gameplay is one of the major reasons of complaint, and as for the story? Why should we praise the story as Gods gift to gaming if we haven't seen it? We don't mention the story because we have no evidence that it will be good OR bad. We can only base our assumptions on what he have, and what we have is the demo.

Same with open-ended missions. We've seen 2 missions in the demo, with only 1 haveing multiple (2) outcomes. SPOILER : Kill Sax or Bribe her, and kill the Greasel. Will there be more in the full game? Maybe. How should we (or you, for that matter) know?

And "angry fanbois"? I don't know about you, but when I go to a message board for a games sequel, I usually see the "fanbois" defending the game. The fact that a lot of Deus Ex fans are disapointed should be taken into account.

IIIMystIII
27th Nov 2003, 09:50
Well said!

annihilating rage
27th Nov 2003, 16:37
can ne1 tell me where 2 get the demo from?

Ziggy Dee
27th Nov 2003, 16:56
Some of you idiots really need to get a computer more advanced than a Commodore 64 - your opinions are useless.

Deus Ex 2 the demo is amazing. If you don't like it, go elsewhere and stop your immature whining. No one cares. We know DX2 will play amazingly and we don't want to hear your whining. Get a tissue for the issue whiners :D

SDX
27th Nov 2003, 17:10
darklightning
u r too cool.

this year I'm spending all the money for a real mountainbike and a driving license, and what will that video card change? I have 1 Ghz Athlon and 256MB PC133.
I don't want to spend a cent then I can't get what I need.

AND about Deus Ex technology - Why does Deus Ex out of Ion Storm have to set the standart in system requirements all the time?
Look at the reviews of the first game - everyone was complaining basically about one thing, SYSTEM REQUIREMENTS!
Now Ion Storm took it to the next limit - they just left everyone with older videocards not just with awfull framerate, but without any chance at all.:mad:
They just have not made the support at all. I'm in such situation that I would finish it in any picture quality, just for the experience, but they managged to effectivly block any chance!

There is no excuse for that, althrough I understand that none of video cards without Pixel Shader support can ever provide a good framerate for DX2.
:mad: :mad: :mad:

alexandertheokay
27th Nov 2003, 17:34
Originally posted by NamelessOne
[B]Right....

I think you're making stuff up to fit with your own image of the game.

Most people who post have posted valid complaints, including
-poor performance
-smaller levels
-An unituitive interface, which doesn't seem to utilise the strengths of the PC
-cutting down on character development (cutting out skills, etc)
-AI glitches
-cutting out lockpicks/multitools/logins
-The fact that most NPCs have "bug-eyes"
-The fact that locational damage is virtually non-existant
-Lean buttons have been removed
-Low quality textures
-No mini-screenshot on saved games, or the ability to name a savegame
-Slot-based instead of sized-based inventory


You're mistaking "most people" with "most people who actually bother to make an argument". I agreed that they are valid complaints, but like I said, we're taking it out of perspective when we take things like "no leaning" and "console-centered UI" (which I had no problems with at all on my pc) to mean that the game is going to be all-out awful. That's just overreaction. This thread gives you an idea what I was talking about, and for worse examples you can find plenty more threads being started. My rant was mostly centered on those types of posts I specifically mentioned - where they decry the supposedly traitorous Warren Spector for blaspheming on their holy Deus Ex, all after playing 2 minutes of a demo. They're rampant here as well as other gaming site forums (gamespot for instance) and I think it's just silly.

As to your comment about the story, note that I never said to praise the game for its story, I agree with you that we haven't seen enough of it from the demo to judge yet. I just stated that it is the story and the gameplay that will make or break the game more than an interface or graphics problem. Remember Morrowind? Great game that so many people loved even though there was (in the first few months after release) NO enemy health bar (really bad interface problem), and the graphics run at an unsteady 24 fps in most areas even with a fast computer running on low settings. At least in DX2 you can tweak it and see a performance increase. In MW you could tweak it and get a whole 2-3 average fps increase. Yay.

And as far as the interface is concerned, I really don't see what the big problem is. I see where some aspects of it seem more console-friendly, but I played through the demo 3 times and I never had one serious problem with it where I thought "what a horrible interface." I think we're looking too much at it as "it's not deus ex 1" instead of as a whole new game.

The character skills issue. This is something that deserves more attention and intelligent discussion from the fans. You can still develop your character to have specific focii in how they play. This just gives you a little more freedom to change that decision as you go. If you want to be a stealthy hacker type, you get an invisibility biomod and a neural interface biomod, and use a stealth weapon like a knife. But in the next level lets say you feel like going commando. Grab an SMG and some grenades, and some combat-centered biomods, and go at it. And you don't even have to go that far. As you saw in the demo, you can play the game however you want at any point. The choice is yours. You can go into Apartment 22 through the front door guns blazing, or you can sneak out the basement and up onto the fire escape, take out the window in the bathroom with the glass breaking weapon mod, use F2 to watch the girl through walls, and knife her when she walks away from you. Or you can just drop a spider bomb into the room and wait for it to finish its work. If this level were in the middle of the game, (which it seems to be), and it were DX1, at that point you could only do the thing that you had already given yourself skills in if you wanted to complete the mission. So in this sense you are developing the character the way you want them, you just have more instantaneous choice when doing so. It would have been impossible to make it truly open-ended and free if they had kept the old skill-based system.

After all, it only makes sense that a genetically-bred superagent would be great at everything anyways... and really, how realistic was it in DX1 that someone could be a master of rifles but fired a pistol like a blind man having a seizure?

Ziggy Dee
29th Nov 2003, 20:30
Originally posted by SDX
darklightning
u r too cool.

this year I'm spending all the money for a real mountainbike and a driving license, and what will that video card change? I have 1 Ghz Athlon and 256MB PC133.
I don't want to spend a cent then I can't get what I need.

AND about Deus Ex technology - Why does Deus Ex out of Ion Storm have to set the standart in system requirements all the time?
Look at the reviews of the first game - everyone was complaining basically about one thing, SYSTEM REQUIREMENTS!
Now Ion Storm took it to the next limit - they just left everyone with older videocards not just with awfull framerate, but without any chance at all.:mad:
They just have not made the support at all. I'm in such situation that I would finish it in any picture quality, just for the experience, but they managged to effectivly block any chance!

There is no excuse for that, althrough I understand that none of video cards without Pixel Shader support can ever provide a good framerate for DX2.
:mad: :mad: :mad:

Why should they give support for old specs which are really crap? Your computer isn't a decent rig, it's more like a typewriter for gods sake.

Brekfist
29th Nov 2003, 20:37
Failure. No further comment that hasn't been said a million times before. Simplistic console garbage is the watchword of the current game industry (and one look at the drooling fanboy morons in this group will prove it quickly), so why should we have expected DX2 to be different?

Oh right...DX1. So much for that.

Ziggy Dee
29th Nov 2003, 20:50
Originally posted by Brekfist
Failure. No further comment that hasn't been said a million times before. Simplistic console garbage is the watchword of the current game industry (and one look at the drooling fanboy morons in this group will prove it quickly), so why should we have expected DX2 to be different?

Oh right...DX1. So much for that.

http://www.thejackcat.com/AC/ACPL02/STFU.jpg

Buka Rox
29th Nov 2003, 21:28
It hasn't just failed; it's bombed. There will be a few stragglers who can still play it, and good luck to them, but as Warren said: they made choices, and they knew those choices would damn them or make them.

It's just a shame they couldn't give the game a fighting chance by not having the pivotal choice be a cheque from Microsoft. What really sealed it for me was the screenshot comparison thread - and the X-Box's inability to handle bumpmapping (don't even suggest the PC can't handle those early screenshots - I'm not saying that you'd need all that turned on all the time, but not to even include it as a detail option...). Even though this is superfluous to many of the awful design choices (Start a game on REALISM, shoot a guard in the head, then talk to him about him not falling 'for a line' and walking right on in), it displays the magnitude of their indifference. Having the official demo released with X-Box .inis also doesn't help.

Of course, it's all been said before, and will be said again. And again. The reason people are so upset, of course, is that this isn't some no-talent backroom EA team, it's a Warren Specter game. If Glenn Gould came on stage and played only 3 notes in 10 right, the "you don't owe them anything, after all, you only pay if you want to" line wouldn't fly either. They set their stall out to be artists, but then fell short. Oh well, maybe Thief 3 :)

LoneGhostMoon
2nd Dec 2003, 00:17
IM tired of people saying this game sucks!!! whats so bad that its got a bad interface... duh its not going to be as good as the first but we must move on... there is hardly any gun games anyway so i cant wait to buy this one... and the video card i bought for this game came with a free half life 2... this game does have localized damage they tried to make the game more hard by making it so you wont kill someone in one hit for once a gun game is making me use things like grenades and smoke bombs to fight enemys plus it wants you to rely more on stratigy than your reflexs to shoot someone in the head finnaly its something new.. and the grafics are very interesting and ive never seen a gun game with such a high replay value its even higher than the first due to the emerse story and chacater interactions all the first one had was skill points and less interaction yes the first game was one of my favorite games but he cannot compare... because if u want you can continue playing deus ex one or get over it and play this. the game is great and ill tell you its alot better than games like chrome... so all i see at the moment is deus ex, doom 3, halo 2, half life 2, and unreal tournament 2004. and latly stratigy games are starting to suck more than ever... what the heck is homeworld 2 it was crap and i dont see why rise of nations is getting such high scores... i mean its a perfect game... that they should of made 2 years ago not now! so please stop making deus ex look so bad cause you have nothing better to do because people are not even looking at it deeply enough... i mean why the hell are people complaining about the HUD? and it looks like the X box... omg that makes a game horrible now doesnt it! what the heck its stupid. at first i frowned on the demo but i realized how good it was after tring it out a few more times. i doubt many other gun games give you so much freedom and fun...:D ...im not blindly defending the game because i have made posts of things i dont like but people are going over board... i hate the fact that there are only 9 guns... i think and the blood really does look so bad it makes my eyes bleed. but it wont stop me from buying a good game maybe if they get enough sales it will help them possilby make a deus ex 3? anyway... it seems the people that really liked the first and really studied this game like it and the people that probly only played the demo for and hour and seen some screen shots and maybe and add are the ones bashing it... i know some fans have taken a change of heart... but what was the reson... because the skill points are gone? tho i miss it. and it makes small differences this has more fun things that the old one did not... well i hope im helping someone in this world...:(

LoneGhostMoon
2nd Dec 2003, 00:26
alexandertheokay your so right i stick by you and others like ive said too people come after playing the demo for a second and dont even read the forums about the game they just post the same thing over and over again like there stupid or something... its crazy because people will say something about the interface not being important and then another *** comes and says oh man the interface is so bad the game sucks its so immature.. people should grow up... they cannot appriate sometimes i dont understand how they liked deus ex 1... or maybe they just played it when it was good for the time cause i just played it 6 months ago and i loved it... but some people are too picky if an interface will bother them!

costelllo
7th Dec 2003, 18:17
i taught warren spector was a gaming genius but know i thingk he was just lucky with Deus EX 1.